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Why did we abandon hydrogen cars so quickly?

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Remember, Honda have (had ?) an Hydrogen car too, the Clarity ...
So for Toyota/Yamaha to do it in 2023 is just silly; what exactly are they trying to prove? Until or unless they solve the containment problem, they might as well not bother.
Maybe it won't go far, they're trying ... Or something good will out from somewhere, for buses or trucks ...
They have a Hydrogen Corolla making some race in Japan :)
 

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new topic posted today

key quote from that article RIP... lol

"Currently, about 96% of the world’s hydrogen comes from coal (brown) and gas (grey), with the rest created from nuclear (pink) and renewable sources like hydro, wind and solar."
 

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This is an interesting supercar powered by hydrogen.

 
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Hydrogen is far cleaner to the planet than Lithium batteries ever be. a single nuclear plant can produce 150.000 tons of hydrogen per year a single reactor last 6 years on its fuel rods before needs replacing
 

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Hydrogen is far cleaner to the planet than Lithium batteries ever be. a single nuclear plant can produce 150.000 tons of hydrogen per year a single reactor last 6 years on its fuel rods before needs replacing

how many tons are needed for x amount of Toyota Mirai's to run say an average of 15,000 miles per year? I suck at math.

anyways:


Mycobacterium smegmatis can literally turn hydrogen into electricity


as long as the tech keeps finding interesting things like this above, maybe we will finally see some magic happen so to speak
 

Morgoth

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how many tons are needed for x amount of Toyota Mirai's to run say an average of 15,000 miles per year? I suck at math.

anyways:


Mycobacterium smegmatis can literally turn hydrogen into electricity


as long as the tech keeps finding interesting things like this above, maybe we will finally see some magic happen so to speak
no clue. but since we need Electricity any way and solar and wind cant provide 24/7 baseload.. nuclear is the beter option. i asume once we have nuclearplants all over the planet. hydrogen production would be the least of our problems
 

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no clue. but since we need Electricity any way and solar and wind cant provide 24/7 baseload.. nuclear is the beter option. i asume once we have nuclearplants all over the planet. hydrogen production would be the least of our problems

I don't disagree with you:

 
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no clue. but since we need Electricity any way and solar and wind cant provide 24/7 baseload.. nuclear is the beter option. i asume once we have nuclearplants all over the planet. hydrogen production would be the least of our problems

Unless battery technology catches up
 

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Unless battery technology catches up
doest matter. you going to glass the planet and build large ammount of wind farms in order to charge up those batteries
 
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Don't need to cover a lot of area given that most home solar cells don't use the whole roof.
 

Morgoth

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yea but you seen wat china is doing? wat about apartments and skycrapers? doest have enoug roof area to provide solar power for the dwellers
 
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solar and wind cant provide 24/7 baseload
They can, if used with pumped storage - an energy storage method that has existed for literally centuries.
doest matter. you going to glass the planet and build large ammount of wind farms in order to charge up those batteries
Rubbish.
yea but you seen wat china is doing? wat about apartments and skycrapers? doest have enoug roof area to provide solar power for the dwellers
There are these places called "deserts" where people don't live, but solar panels work great. Our planet has a lot of these places.
 

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Personally, I can't wait for Fusion to become available. Nuclear power without the ridiculous oversight required for Fission would be a hell of a lot cheaper, and much more sustainable too.
 

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They can, if used with pumped storage - an energy storage method that has existed for literally centuries.

Rubbish.

There are these places called "deserts" where people don't live, but solar panels work great. Our planet has a lot of these places.
making dams to hold water is eco destruction..
plastering the desert with solar panels is also a ecological destruction...
and having all the stuff in 1 place ist realy safe.. when it comes to terrorism or war. they can control the engergy.... just dumb...
and there are countrys that are flat that dont have hills for dams.....
1678574706827.png


Personally, I can't wait for Fusion to become available. Nuclear power without the ridiculous oversight required for Fission would be a hell of a lot cheaper, and much more sustainable too.
dont worry the anti nuclear party wil think of reasons to ban it to
 

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Count von Schwalbe

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making dams to hold water is eco destruction..
It can, but there are ways to mitigate that. The entire area around me is a net exporter of hydroelectricity, and it has actually generally improved the ecology by managing the water supply. Much less flooding and more stable rivers.

Lots of dams around me dating from the depression, but the areas they are built in are very steep, so little land is lost for a high capacity of water.

We also have a bunch of "micronuclear" around us - it seems much more economical than centralized nuclear.

It seems to me that more efficient nuclear would be a big benefit - currently the most promising nuclear tech I have seen is ~30% efficient. (X-energy modular system)

If there was a way to efficiently capture the energy wasted in cooling towers, even fossil plants would benefit greatly.

I haven't seen a thermal concentrating solar plant for a while, have those died or are they just not news-worthy anymore?
 
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There are these places called "deserts" where people don't live, but solar panels work great. Our planet has a lot of these places.
There are several videos and articles about why populating our deserts with solar panels would be a bad idea, like this one:

TL;DW: Covering the hottest areas of the planet with black surfaces would have detrimental effects on average global temperatures.

dont worry the anti nuclear party wil think of reasons to ban it to
There is an anti-everything party, but if fusion is really the way, then governments will find ways to silence them.
 
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making dams to hold water is eco destruction..
plastering the desert with solar panels is also a ecological destruction...
and having all the stuff in 1 place ist realy safe.. when it comes to terrorism or war. they can control the engergy.... just dumb...
and there are countrys that are flat that dont have hills for dams.....
View attachment 287420


dont worry the anti nuclear party wil think of reasons to ban it to
Ah yes, quoting as a source a website that is literally dedicated to spreading anti-green energy FUD while promoting nuclear energy.

Stop wasting my time with BS. While the anti-nuclear hysteria from so-called "green" parties has been disproportionate and harmful to ending the fossil fuel dependence, the fact of the matter is that nuclear had its opportunity and blew it. Dishonest pro-nuclear lobbying websites are not going to change that.

TL;DW: Covering the hottest areas of the planet with black surfaces would have detrimental effects on average global temperatures.
Do you know what else will have detrimental effects on average global temperatures, and in fact already is? Fossil fuels. It never ceases to amaze me how all these hand-wringing and hypothetical studies of how solar could be bad for the environment, continually ignore how bad continued reliance on fossil fuels is now.

There is an anti-everything party, but if fusion is really the way, then governments will find ways to silence them.
Please shut up with the conspiracy theory stupidity. No government is going to say no to a power source that is effectively limitless, effectively free, and requires zero dependency on other nations.
 

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Please shut up with the conspiracy theory stupidity.
Give me 5 minutes, and I will find a group of people opposed to anything. Not really a conspiracy theory.
No government is going to say no to a power source that is effectively limitless, effectively free, and requires zero dependency on other nations.
Nope. But they will probably argue with each other over how to regulate it until everyone else has it and then they wonder what went wrong.
 

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Ah yes, quoting as a source a website that is literally dedicated to spreading anti-green energy FUD while promoting nuclear energy.

Stop wasting my time with BS. While the anti-nuclear hysteria from so-called "green" parties has been disproportionate and harmful to ending the fossil fuel dependence, the fact of the matter is that nuclear had its opportunity and blew it. Dishonest pro-nuclear lobbying websites are not going to change that.


Do you know what else will have detrimental effects on average global temperatures, and in fact already is? Fossil fuels. It never ceases to amaze me how all these hand-wringing and hypothetical studies of how solar could be bad for the environment, continually ignore how bad continued reliance on fossil fuels is now.


Please shut up with the conspiracy theory stupidity. No government is going to say no to a power source that is effectively limitless, effectively free, and requires zero dependency on other nations.
infact im even gona waste ur time even more with more bullshit than you can handle
this is your little solar farm looks like. no sun to engergy.
1678620096440.png

this it how it looks like after a heavy storm
1678620187132.png

now whos going to pay for that? where ur going to get power from? dont forget wind turbines burn down. wear down. and can't turn on heavy wind need to be parked..
and all that junk is going to turn up to a landfile....

No government is going to say no to a power source that is effectively limitless, effectively free, and requires zero dependency on other nations.
you said place it in a desert where no one lives. that makes other nations DEPENDENT on OTHER Nations
 
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Do you know what else will have detrimental effects on average global temperatures, and in fact already is? Fossil fuels. It never ceases to amaze me how all these hand-wringing and hypothetical studies of how solar could be bad for the environment, continually ignore how bad continued reliance on fossil fuels is now.
Did you see me arguing for the continued use of fossil fuels? No. All I said was populating the Sahara desert with solar panels is a bad idea. I never said there weren't any alternatives.

Watch the video before commenting.

Please shut up with the conspiracy theory stupidity. No government is going to say no to a power source that is effectively limitless, effectively free, and requires zero dependency on other nations.
I don't think I gave you a reason to be rude, so don't shut up me, okay? Besides, you just confirmed my exact point.
 
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infact im even gona waste ur time even more with more bullshit than you can handle
this is your little solar farm looks like. no sun to engergy.
View attachment 287486
this it how it looks like after a heavy storm
View attachment 287487
now whos going to pay for that? where ur going to get power from? dont forget wind turbines burn down. wear down. and can't turn on heavy wind need to be parked..
and all that junk is going to turn up to a landfile....
Posting a random picture of a destroyed solar panel farm, without providing any sort of source for said picture, is not an argument. For all I know that's a picture of a solar farm after anti-progress yokels like yourself have been through it.

No government is going to say no to a power source that is effectively limitless, effectively free, and requires zero dependency on other nations.
you said place it in a desert where no one lives. that makes other nations DEPENDENT on OTHER Nations
We were talking about fusion power, dear. Do try to keep up.

Did you see me arguing for the continued use of fossil fuels? No. All I said was populating the Sahara desert with solar panels is a bad idea. I never said there weren't any alternatives.

Watch the video before commenting.
Sorry, let me rewind.

My comment about covering deserts with solar panels was a somewhat flippant response to the poster who was spreading FUD about how we don't have enough surface area for solar panels. They then compounded their FUD by posting a graphic purporting to show how much of the USA would need to be covered with solar and wind to satisfy the nation's energy needs - a graphic with zero information on how that area was calculated, from a website known to be anti-solar and anti-wind. That's not science, that's doubling down on FUD.

You then responded with a - completely valid - video about how covering the Sahara with solar panels is probably not a good idea. You and the video are completely correct and I agree completely! Just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should, and a lot of the trouble we're currently in in regards to the climate could and would have been avoided if we'd had a similar caution about basing our entire civilisation on hydrocarbons, as opposed to diversifying our energy sources long ago. It makes complete sense to learn that lesson and not proceed down a road that will have similarly negative consequences in future.

However, my point in regards to that video - which I admit was poorly communicated - is that I was circling back to the original anti-solar FUD from the other poster. Every time someone says "solar", about a million anti-solar pundits come out of the woodwork claiming that it won't work for about a trillion different reasons, most of which - like the original poster's "reason" - are complete and utter rubbish. But this FUD is exactly what the anti-nuclear lobby (whom I despise, by the way) used back in the 70s and 80s to essentially kill big nuclear, and I'm so very tired of things that are necessary for our world being pushed to the wayside because people are afraid of them for no good reason. That is all.

I don't think I gave you a reason to be rude, so don't shut up me, okay? Besides, you just confirmed my exact point.
Of course you did - conspiracy theories are the opposite of science and as such, have zero place in a thread discussing science.

Unless you were being flippant, in which case I apologise unreservedly.
 
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Sorry, let me rewind.

My comment about covering deserts with solar panels was a somewhat flippant response to the poster who was spreading FUD about how we don't have enough surface area for solar panels. They then compounded their FUD by posting a graphic purporting to show how much of the USA would need to be covered with solar and wind to satisfy the nation's energy needs - a graphic with zero information on how that area was calculated, from a website known to be anti-solar and anti-wind. That's not science, that's doubling down on FUD.

You then responded with a - completely valid - video about how covering the Sahara with solar panels is probably not a good idea. You and the video are completely correct and I agree completely! Just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should, and a lot of the trouble we're currently in in regards to the climate could and would have been avoided if we'd had a similar caution about basing our entire civilisation on hydrocarbons, as opposed to diversifying our energy sources long ago. It makes complete sense to learn that lesson and not proceed down a road that will have similarly negative consequences in future.

However, my point in regards to that video - which I admit was poorly communicated - is that I was circling back to the original anti-solar FUD from the other poster. Every time someone says "solar", about a million anti-solar pundits come out of the woodwork claiming that it won't work for about a trillion different reasons, most of which - like the original poster's "reason" - are complete and utter rubbish. But this FUD is exactly what the anti-nuclear lobby (whom I despise, by the way) used back in the 70s and 80s to essentially kill big nuclear, and I'm so very tired of things that are necessary for our world being pushed to the wayside because people are afraid of them for no good reason. That is all.
Ah, I see - fair enough. :) I suppose I didn't get the tone of your reply, so I apologise.

The key is, as always, balance, I guess. Different sources of power have different merits, and are suitable for different use cases. In this sense, the "let's just use fossils because they're cool" camp is equally wrong as the "everybody should go battery electric" camp, or the "nuclear = bad" camp, in my opinion. What's good for me isn't necessarily good for you. Fun fact, that with all the famous incidents of the past, nuclear is still one of the safest and environmentally friendliest sources of power when handled right. This is why I'm just as excited about fusion power as I am about hydrogen-powered cars.

Of course you did - conspiracy theories are the opposite of science and as such, have zero place in a thread discussing science.

Unless you were being flippant, in which case I apologise unreservedly.
I appreciate it, although I wasn't being flippant, nor was I theorising around conspiracies. My point was (meant to be) similar to yours, even if I didn't communicate it right: if fusion is the way forward (which I believe it is), then governments will and should find ways to convince (or silence) the anti-mob. As you said (or at least implied), people are anti-everything by nature, even in cases where change is measurably positive.
 
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Ah, I see - fair enough. :) I suppose I didn't get the tone of your reply, so I apologise.

The key is, as always, balance, I guess. Different sources of power have different merits, and are suitable for different use cases. In this sense, the "let's just use fossils because they're cool" camp is equally wrong as the "everybody should go battery electric" camp, or the "nuclear = bad" camp, in my opinion. What's good for me isn't necessarily good for you. Fun fact, that with all the famous incidents of the past, nuclear is still one of the safest and environmentally friendliest sources of power when handled right. This is why I'm just as excited about fusion power as I am about hydrogen-powered cars.
Absolutely, and that is why I am so disgusted with the so-called "environmentalists" that blocked nuclear "on principle". If we'd built more nuclear and thus used less fossil fuels, the climate crisis probably wouldn't be a crisis, and we'd also have been in a much better place to address it via the simple act of building even more nuclear.

Even today, with nuclear power mostly being accepted by true environmentalists, there is still the idiotic NIMBY'ing over where to store the waste that is preventing the construction of more nuclear plants. Meanwhile the current plants are forced to store spent fuel on-site basically forever, which is a massive and unnecessary cost increase and a far greater risk than just storing it all in a single, secured, centralised location.

It never ceases to blow my mind how South Africa, the third-world country I was born in, has a nuclear waste storage program that has been working without issue for literally decades - yet the USA, the so-called greatest nation in the world, the one that literally invented nuclear power, simply cannot agree on selecting one of hundreds of thousands of disused deep mines shafts for the same. It boggles my mind.

Now, I will not disagree that there are problems with nuclear (and I do not consider spent fuel storage one of them) - in particular, the people in charge of running nuclear power stations have shown dangerous levels of incompetence (Three Mile Island and Fukishima - I'm purposefully ignoring the Soviet levels of incompetence at Chernobyl, because those levels of incompetence are something you can't really design against). This is something that can and should be addressed by wholly independent nuclear regulation agencies that have the budget and manpower to perform random inspections on a regular basis. Further, as the state of the art in terms of construction and safety around nuclear evolves, this same regulatory body should include scientists and engineers who are empowered to quite literally go into any NPP and force it to be shut down immediately because it is no longer safe according to new information (e.g. the wall height vs tsunami wave height at Fukushima). If we'd been building more nuclear plants, this wouldn't have an effect on the grid because we'd have more than enough of them for redundancy!

I appreciate it, although I wasn't being flippant, nor was I theorising around conspiracies. My point was (meant to be) similar to yours, even if I didn't communicate it right: if fusion is the way forward (which I believe it is), then governments will and should find ways to convince (or silence) the anti-mob. As you said (or at least implied), people are anti-everything by nature, even in cases where change is measurably positive.
Ah, then I doubly apologise for my offence towards you. And I think fusion is going to be very different to nuclear in this regard, because not only is it inherently fail-safe, the people involved in it have been very careful to control the media narrative to prevent any sort of anti-fusion hysteria from getting a grip. I'm sure you'll find that sort of FUD in the fringe publications, and I'm sure it'll start to leak into the mainstream once the first commercial fusion plants come online, but I think the marketing around fusion has been a lot better than fission was.
 

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Posting a random picture of a destroyed solar panel farm, without providing any sort of source for said picture, is not an argument. For all I know that's a picture of a solar farm after anti-progress yokels like yourself have been through it.


We were talking about fusion power, dear. Do try to keep up.


Sorry, let me rewind.

My comment about covering deserts with solar panels was a somewhat flippant response to the poster who was spreading FUD about how we don't have enough surface area for solar panels. They then compounded their FUD by posting a graphic purporting to show how much of the USA would need to be covered with solar and wind to satisfy the nation's energy needs - a graphic with zero information on how that area was calculated, from a website known to be anti-solar and anti-wind. That's not science, that's doubling down on FUD.

You then responded with a - completely valid - video about how covering the Sahara with solar panels is probably not a good idea. You and the video are completely correct and I agree completely! Just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should, and a lot of the trouble we're currently in in regards to the climate could and would have been avoided if we'd had a similar caution about basing our entire civilisation on hydrocarbons, as opposed to diversifying our energy sources long ago. It makes complete sense to learn that lesson and not proceed down a road that will have similarly negative consequences in future.

However, my point in regards to that video - which I admit was poorly communicated - is that I was circling back to the original anti-solar FUD from the other poster. Every time someone says "solar", about a million anti-solar pundits come out of the woodwork claiming that it won't work for about a trillion different reasons, most of which - like the original poster's "reason" - are complete and utter rubbish. But this FUD is exactly what the anti-nuclear lobby (whom I despise, by the way) used back in the 70s and 80s to essentially kill big nuclear, and I'm so very tired of things that are necessary for our world being pushed to the wayside because people are afraid of them for no good reason. That is all.


Of course you did - conspiracy theories are the opposite of science and as such, have zero place in a thread discussing science.

Unless you were being flippant, in which case I apologise unreservedly.
just like you randomly bloating about shit and calling names
 
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