12Gb GPUs already obsolete, brand new game takes up to 18Gb Vram at 1440p

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Indeed it would be really bad if it happened on a consumer console, which is why developers avoid this at all costs. But the limit exists and is even more stringent than on PCs.


And yes a console is a single hardware and software combination but this fact really doesn't do much for the vram usage : between a dx12 xbox and a PC, for identical graphics settings the needs also are basically the same. The main difference here is console are more efficient than mid range PCs at streaming data from the drive. The ps5 is more efficient than anything I know all things considered.


Yes that's true, people often forget other software can occupy your vram. That's particularly true for modern browsers that use a lot (up to several GB) of it and don't seem to back down when a game is launched that would need it. The infamous hardware unboxed video was an hilarious example of this: the first game tested (and one of the few where they bothered actually measuring the game's usage) showed 4-5GB of other software filling the 8GB of 3070 vram...

The console is faster than any pc pulling assets from storage.

Efficiency isn't by accident.

The consoles are honed to a purpose ,,so effectively are efficient.
A pc by design is not due to many factors but general any end point use is the be biggest.

So a GPU needs more resources then a console, the same isn't enough.

And no your wrong at same settings, IF that were possible the pc would still need more resources because it's still doing more behind the scenes and has less ip in use on storage decompression for example, so the CPU not a special resource chip carries the load on pc IF the pc had that special API dx 12 Brings then that API too is a load.

And no one turns down pc settings until it doesn't work well enough, we start at ultra and work down, not optimal for Vram use.


If a console needs 8 the pc needs , more.

 

[Bomby569]

The console is faster than any pc pulling assets from storage.

That has a limit, they don't have magic cpu's, storage and gpu, their hardware is aging fast, there are a lot of pc's struggling to play pc games that have way faster components. PC gaming is suffering from increasingly bad ports.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

That has a limit, they don't have magic cpu's, storage and gpu, their hardware is aging fast, there are a lot of pc's struggling to play pc games that have way faster components. PC gaming is suffering from increasingly bad ports.

Who said that.

Did I say unlimited?, No.

And no the ps5 and Xbox both have special compression and decompression hardware that's actually used and optimised specifically for, they maybe ageing fast but 99.999999% of PCs have significantly worse storage.

Those few .000001% with pciec5 pcs in raid 0 with dx12 storage boosts on the two to three at best supporting game's still aren't as fast because they don't have special compression decomp circuitry.

And the API on pc are moving glacially.


I fitted a 2TB in my ps5 last night and moved 300 GB in about 3/4 minutes, even with 4 nvme in raid 0 and 11.5 GB /s I tried once I haven't seen that pace before, hypothetically I should have.
But didn't why, optimisations.

Optimized consoles, 8GB of Vram is enough, for now, remember PC cost more and given time exceed consoles.

Yet

Usually it doesn't take this long.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Who said that.

Did I say unlimited?, No.

And no the ps5 and Xbox both have special compression and decompression hardware that's actually used and optimised specifically for, they maybe ageing fast but 99.999999% of PCs have significantly worse storage.

Those few .000001% with pciec5 pcs in raid 0 with dx12 storage boosts on the two to three at best supporting game's still aren't as fast because they don't have special compression decomp circuitry.

And the API on pc are moving glacially.


I fitted a 2TB in my ps5 last night and moved 300 GB in about 3/4 minutes, even with 4 nvme in raid 0 and 11.5 GB /s I tried once I haven't seen that pace before, hypothetically I should have.
But didn't why, optimisations.

Optimized consoles, 8GB of Vram is enough, for now, remember PC cost more and given time exceed consoles.

Yet

Usually it doesn't take this long.

I think part of that is most games still aren't taking full advantage of these new consoles any ps5 exclusive pc port is going to be a struggle to optimize for pc.

Sure the console hardware is pretty weak in general it's still much stronger than the average pc hardware gamers have. With better i/o than most high end pc.

Let's be real though developers know the majority of sales will be on console making investing ton of money into optimizing for pc not make sense for most publishers. Even CP2077 a more pc centric release struggled at launch same with Witcher 3 and those were games in their time clearly targeting pc hardware first and foremost developing games is obviously hard sure there are some really talented developers like the coalition, nixxes, Asobo studios, Turn 10, playground that seem to get it right out of the gate but we get more bethesda style optimization these days.

 

[Bomby569]

I fitted a 2TB in my ps5 last night and moved 300 GB in about 3/4 minutes, even with 4 nvme in raid 0 and 11.5 GB /s I tried once I haven't seen that pace before, hypothetically I should have.
But didn't why, optimisations.

They don't use special ssd's or cpu's, they have a limitation like any other ssd's or cpu's. I don't know the conditions but i can max the speed of my ssd's.
SSD performance in game idk enough to talk about, it's faster then what we get on PC from what i've read, but moving files i don't see how can they be faster.

 

[sepheronx]

My understanding is a lot of the textures can be streamed off of the NVME in the consoles much like what was promised by direct storage. Is it that DS is still not utilized on PC and thus its all trying to be stored on vram?

 

[Dragam1337]

My understanding is a lot of the textures can be streamed off of the NVME in the consoles much like what was promised by direct storage. Is it that DS is still not utilized on PC and thus its all trying to be stored on vram?

Correct.

 

[Bomby569]

My understanding is a lot of the textures can be streamed off of the NVME in the consoles much like what was promised by direct storage. Is it that DS is still not utilized on PC and thus its all trying to be stored on vram?

it's already a thing, game devs are just to lazy to implement them on PC, it's always the same issue, they want our money but they don't want to do any work for it, just do subpar ports of the console versions.

DirectStorage 1.2 Available Now - DirectX Developer Blog

Today we’re releasing the 1.2 version of the DirectStorage SDK, where we’ve added new features and made some fixes based on your feedback. The full list of changes can be found on the NuGet page and you can update to the latest version using NuGet update.  Visit the DirectStorage landing page...

devblogs.microsoft.com

idk what the connection is like on PS5/xbox, but they sure don't even have PCie gen 5 and limited lanes on the CPU, what are they using? does it even match gen 4?

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

it's already a thing, game devs are just to lazy to implement them on PC, it's always the same issue, they want our money but they don't want to do any work for it, just do subpar ports of the console versions.

DirectStorage 1.2 Available Now - DirectX Developer Blog

Today we’re releasing the 1.2 version of the DirectStorage SDK, where we’ve added new features and made some fixes based on your feedback. The full list of changes can be found on the NuGet page and you can update to the latest version using NuGet update.  Visit the DirectStorage landing page...

devblogs.microsoft.com

idk what the connection is like on PS5/xbox, but they sure don't even have PCie gen 5 and limited lanes on the CPU, what are they using? does it even match gen 4?

Take the PS5, I know the Xbox has similar but I know what sony did.

Their SSD isn't like others it was similar to pciec5 before it existed I think six channels where most are four max, plus a co processor doing compression fast.

The Xbox is closer but again less overhead, spam overhead too.

Do many realise a lot of RGB software use GPU resource!?

I sort of changed my mind anyway ,wtaf am I thinking I have a steamdeck, I'll be able to play ANY game for all time on that on low at 800p 8GB will always be fine, , for some.
Regards console,
It's not like that info isn't out there, it's on TPU I'm sure



Sooo hyper ironic given my stance I just built a 3060Ti rig, the owner wouldn't be swayed any better direction, so I'll see how long it takes, but speaking with him he's already compromising as is, not a pro or con realistically, it's not high-end.

 

[JustBenching]

Take the PS5, I know the Xbox has similar but I know what sony did.

Their SSD isn't like others it was similar to pciec5 before it existed I think six channels where most are four max, plus a co processor doing compression fast.

The Xbox is closer but again less overhead, spam overhead too.

Do many realise a lot of RGB software use GPU resource!?

I sort of changed my mind anyway ,wtaf am I thinking I have a steamdeck, I'll be able to play ANY game for all time on that on low at 800p 8GB will always be fine, , for some.
Regards console,
It's not like that info isn't out there, it's on TPU I'm sure



Sooo hyper ironic given my stance I just built a 3060Ti rig, the owner wouldn't be swayed any better direction, so I'll see how long it takes, but speaking with him he's already compromising as is, not a pro or con realistically, it's not high-end.

Αnd yet, all that ssd and shared ram didn't do any good to the Ps5, it drops to 648p (with FSR mind you, lol) and 17 fps on the new jedi. Lovely.

 

[Bomby569]

Take the PS5, I know the Xbox has similar but I know what sony did.

Their SSD isn't like others it was similar to pciec5 before it existed I think six channels where most are four max, plus a co processor doing compression fast.

PS5 uses a pcie gen4 interface, you can't get pcie gen5 speeds with a gen4 interface, that is physically impossible.

How to add an M.2 SSD to a PS5 console

Find out which M.2 SSDs can be used to expand your PlayStation®5 console storage space, and how to insert an M.2 SSD into the expansion slot.

www.playstation.com

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

PS5 uses a pcie gen4 interface, you can't get pcie gen5 speeds with a gen4 interface, that is physically impossible.

How to add an M.2 SSD to a PS5 console

Find out which M.2 SSDs can be used to expand your PlayStation®5 console storage space, and how to insert an M.2 SSD into the expansion slot.

www.playstation.com

No that's for additional storage, the built in attached storage exceeds 4.

Your derailing this thread with ignorance.

Read up but regardless let's move on from console storage eh.

 

[biggermesh]

The console is faster than any pc pulling assets from storage.

That's simply false, PCIe get 5 ssds are a thing and the ps5 has a PCIe gen 4. The default drive does not even max out gen 4 speeds at 5GB/s.

And no your wrong at same settings, IF that were possible the pc would still need more resources because it's still doing more behind the scenes and has less ip in use

I think you misunderstood my post which is strange because I talk about other programs taking up vram space just a few lines below.
The game itself will have largely the same needs. The xbox series X is a desktop graphics card with a direct x 12 driver, to do the same thing you'll largely allocate the same things. The only differences of current consoles with a desktop PC, computing wise, are an audio processing unit and direct storage/hardware decompression. None of those things affect dramatically the amount of vram you need for a given scene.

on storage decompression for example, so the CPU not a special resource chip carries the load on pc IF the pc had that special API dx 12 Brings then that API too is a load.

Well 1st literally no game in the world uses this and 2nd we're talking about sub 100mB of vram allocated by direct storage. The vast majority of memory needs will stay the same. Console are not magical devices with magical efficiency.

If a console needs 8 the pc needs , more.

I think you misunderstood. The xbox series s has 8GB UNIFIED memory. It has much less vram available than this. Which was my whole point to begin with: consoles are much more memory constrained than people realise.

No that's for additional storage, the built in attached storage exceeds 4.

Your derailing this thread with ignorance.

Read up but regardless let's move on from console storage eh.

I don't mean to be mean but don't talk to others about their ignorance when you clearly are not well informed. The ps5 ssd offers 5GB/s peak bandwitdh, which can translate to 8GB/s effective bandwidth if you have very good compression of your assets. Here are 3 ssds from 3 different gens that do better:

My understanding is a lot of the textures can be streamed off of the NVME in the consoles much like what was promised by direct storage. Is it that DS is still not utilized on PC and thus its all trying to be stored on vram?

Textures are streamed from storage into vram in literally every AAA game since at least 10 years. What direct storage is is a more efficient (but not magic!) way to put data into vram.

 

[Bomby569]

No that's for additional storage, the built in attached storage exceeds 4.

Your derailing this thread with ignorance.

Read up but regardless let's move on from console storage eh.

it seems you're the ignorant but lets move on

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

That's simply false, PCIe get 5 ssds are a thing and the ps5 has a PCIe gen 4. The default drive does not even max out gen 4 speeds at 5GB/s.


I think you misunderstood my post which is strange because I talk about other programs taking up vram space just a few lines below.
The game itself will have largely the same needs. The xbox series X is a desktop graphics card with a direct x 12 driver, to do the same thing you'll largely allocate the same things. The only differences of current consoles with a desktop PC, computing wise, are an audio processing unit and direct storage/hardware decompression. None of those things affect dramatically the amount of vram you need for a given scene.


Well 1st literally no game in the world uses this and 2nd we're talking about sub 100mB of vram allocated by direct storage. The vast majority of memory needs will stay the same. Console are not magical devices with magical efficiency.


I think you misunderstood. The xbox series s has 8GB UNIFIED memory. It has much less vram available than this. Which was my whole point to begin with: consoles are much more memory constrained than people realise.


I don't mean to be mean but don't talk to others about their ignorance when you clearly are not well informed. The ps5 ssd offers 5GB/s peak bandwitdh, which can translate to 8GB/s effective bandwidth if you have very good compression of your assets. Here are 3 ssds from 3 different gens that do better:

Textures are streamed from storage into vram in literally every AAA game since at least 10 years. What direct storage is is a more efficient (but not magic!) way to put data into vram.

The internal storage does 5.5GB and then has it's advanced compression decomp hardware said to equal the performance of many Zen cores so while you may think that's just pciex4 speeds, in effect it is getting more done, I'll agree I got excited though, it's not beating 5 for direct readwrites, I think I got it's effective performance and actual read performance confused.

And your 3 drives were not tested against Sonys DC comp so I'll agree to disagree there but I admit their are faster pc drives.

In use, in games fffff no though so moot won point.

As for the rest I'll get back to you when not on phone I disagree with some of it though since you mentioned Xbox S , the low end 1080 p low iq variety?!, Like that's the best thing to try 1440p Hogwarts or such like on?!

 

[mechtech]

“consume up to 18 gb vram at 1440p,”

up to

turn down some fluff. Crisis averted.

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

“consume up to 18 gb vram at 1440p,”

up to

turn down some fluff. Crisis averted.

Do you really need any type of AA & AF on 3840x2160 or K4???

Surely if you do you either have a very large screen or you are sitting very close the screen to see those jaggies.

 

[cvaldes]

I think part of that is most games still aren't taking full advantage of these new consoles any ps5 exclusive pc port is going to be a struggle to optimize for pc.

Games are written for the lowest common denominator.

For current generation consoles, that's the Xbox Series S which has 10 GB RAM and is marketed as a 1080p/1440p system. The graphics subsystem operates in 8 GB of RAM on a 128-bit bus. The system and other software operates in 2 GB of RAM on a pokey 32-bit bus.

PS5 is closer to the Xbox Series X, both of which are marketed as 4K/60Hz systems.

It really takes developers years to learn how to fully exploit a console's hardware and often the titles that do release toward the end of that console's lifetime.

Microsoft essentially nerfed the Series X by launching the Series S beside it since developers are compelled to author titles that run on both. Sony made a cleaner break between the PS4 and PS5.

 

[Palladium]

I simply gave up on AAA gaming on PC long ago; shit just ain't worth the effort, time or money anymore when I can simply stream.

And a big LOL to anyone who thinks bad AAA PC ports won't get worse with a shrinking base of current-gen GPUs.

 

[wheresmycar]

I simply gave up on AAA gaming on PC long ago; shit just ain't worth the effort, time or money anymore when I can simply stream.

And a big LOL to anyone who thinks bad AAA PC ports won't get worse with a shrinking base of current-gen GPUs.

Good on you mate... I'm just not as strong willed to terminate the high-profile gaming relationship. Pisses me off sometimes but you know "love and hate" relationships work too

 

[sepheronx]

I dunno about trip a games. Is Re4 remake triple A?

Last one I bought day 1 was Cyberflop 2020 and I gotta say it was first game I pre-ordered in like 15+ years and my butt still hurts.

I've gone back to play FF6 again after all these decades. Still super fun

 

[mechtech]

I dunno about trip a games. Is Re4 remake triple A?

Last one I bought day 1 was Cyberflop 2020 and I gotta say it was first game I pre-ordered in like 15+ years and my butt still hurts.

I've gone back to play FF6 again after all these decades. Still super fun

Ff6 on the snes or pc with rom and emulator or pc via steam game ?

 

[sepheronx]

Ff6 on the snes or pc with rom and emulator or pc via steam game ?

FF6 T edition.
SNESX, Japanese 1.0 version, English patch and the T Edition Rom Hack.

A real challenge. fighting the espers

 

[Bomby569]

I simply gave up on AAA gaming on PC long ago; shit just ain't worth the effort, time or money anymore when I can simply stream.

And a big LOL to anyone who thinks bad AAA PC ports won't get worse with a shrinking base of current-gen GPUs.

the new zelda is a good AAA PC game

 

[sepheronx]

the new zelda is a good AAA PC game

I heard it's mostly rehashing of everything from previous Zelda game and feels more of a DLC than a game worth $70.