Dissatisfied With Current AIO - Buy a different one or go Air?

[Gmr_Chick]

I run a Be Quiet! Pure Loop 2 FX 360mm AIO. I've owned it since my Ryzen 5 5600 and I'm now using it on a Ryzen 7 7700X. Since swapping to AM5, however, I've recently become bothered by its performance. Even after playing with fan curves (I run the pump at full speed) on my X670E Aorus Master, the fans are obnoxious, with a bursty behavior and my rig sounds like a microwave every time I do something simple, like open my browser or boot into Windows. I can hear the damn thing through my headphones while gaming, and even had one of my gaming friends ask me, "do you have a fan on?" while we were playing last night. I almost told him "yeah, 3 of them. Inside my PC!"

In short, I'm heavily considering a CPU cooling swap, but am at a loss as to whether I should go with a different AIO (and maybe even a smaller one) or forgo the water altogether and go with a nice air cooler instead.

In an AIO, I'm looking for anything up to 360mm, no Corsair or Asus (both offer stupidly expensive options for what they are. Also hate Armoury Crate with a passion), with relatively quiet fans out of the box. priced up to $150 and offering at least a 5 year warranty. RGB on the pump cap and/or fans is fine, but I don't need even more cable spaghetti so daisy chain fans are preferred. Same goes for ARGB connectors.

Requirements for an air cooler are far more simple. I'm looking for enough performance to not only keep a 7700X (and future AM5 Ryzens) comfortably cool, but also do it in a way that doesn't remind me of a fucking microwave nuking a TV dinner. It needs to be able to fit with the confines of an X670E Aorus Master with G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo RAM sticks and an MSI RTX 3070 Suprim X GPU. ARGB on the fan(s) and/or the top is fine. I have the Phanteks Evolv X case.

So, let's hear those suggestions!

 

[evernessince]

Sometimes fans can be louder depending on whether you have them set up as push / pull. I'd try swapping how they are configured to see if it makes a difference. I know my NH-D15 had an annoying whine until I swapped their direction.

For fan curves, what tinkering thus far have you done? Is is possible to turn down the max fan speed under load to a point where it's not annoying anymore?

In regards to AIOs to buy, the DeepCool LT720 tops the charts and is much cheaper than it's competitors.

Of course you could always buy Phanteks T30s as replacement fans assuming your current AIO isn't experiencing a different issue. The T30s are ridiculously quiet for the amount of air they move.

 

[tabascosauz]

I run a Be Quiet! Pure Loop 2 FX 360mm AIO. I've owned it since my Ryzen 5 5600 and I'm now using it on a Ryzen 7 7700X. Since swapping to AM5, however, I've recently become bothered by its performance. Even after playing with fan curves (I run the pump at full speed) on my X670E Aorus Master, the fans are obnoxious, with a bursty behavior and my rig sounds like a microwave every time I do something simple, like open my browser or boot into Windows. I can hear the damn thing through my headphones while gaming, and even had one of my gaming friends ask me, "do you have a fan on?" while we were playing last night. I almost told him "yeah, 3 of them. Inside my PC!"

In short, I'm heavily considering a CPU cooling swap, but am at a loss as to whether I should go with a different AIO (and maybe even a smaller one) or forgo the water altogether and go with a nice air cooler instead.

In an AIO, I'm looking for anything up to 360mm, no Corsair or Asus (both offer stupidly expensive options for what they are. Also hate Armoury Crate with a passion), with relatively quiet fans out of the box. priced up to $150 and offering at least a 5 year warranty. RGB on the pump cap and/or fans is fine, but I don't need even more cable spaghetti so daisy chain fans are preferred. Same goes for ARGB connectors.

Requirements for an air cooler are far more simple. I'm looking for enough performance to not only keep a 7700X (and future AM5 Ryzens) comfortably cool, but also do it in a way that doesn't remind me of a fucking microwave nuking a TV dinner. It needs to be able to fit with the confines of an X670E Aorus Master with G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo RAM sticks and an MSI RTX 3070 Suprim X GPU. ARGB on the fan(s) and/or the top is fine. I have the Phanteks Evolv X case.

So, let's hear those suggestions!

• On a budget: Thermalright PA120, PS120SE, FC140, FS140
• On a budget with money for fans: Thermalright + quiet fans like A12x25/Silent Wings 4/T30-120, or something Deepcool
• Money: NH-D15/D15S or U12A + Noctua's offset brackets
• Completely quiet with no additional work: Dark Rock Pro 4

I would not use an AIO on any CPU that by design is incapable of stretching its legs (ie. density interferes long before wattage can get high enough to warrant water). Especially not a 360mm that offers utterly no advantage on a 1CCD.

If wanting to get temps down a bit, do some CO offset and combine it with lower power limits to get the temps down, and/or set a lower temp target.

 

[Vya Domus]

Why not just change the fan curve, if they're running really loud something might be wrong with the mounting. You could also add some fans to do push/pull and run them at lower RPM, good 360 AIOs are quite expensive I feel like replacing it is too much there must be a cheaper way of doing this.

 

[ir_cow]

The Ryzen 7000 run "hot" and have that 95c target. New cooler probably won't change anything.

 

[GerKNG]

even a custom loop with a bathtub of water attached to it won't change your temps.
just go into your bios and set the AIO fans to the highest static RPM that you are okay with and call it a day. (and max out the pump)

 

[ir_cow]

I have those Phanteks T30 on my loops. So quite at 30% speed. I love them. Best $80 I spent.

 

[tabascosauz]

I have those Phanteks T30 on my loops. So quite at 30% speed. I love them. Best $80 I spent.

Same. I run mine at a constant 1300rpm and they are still remarkably quiet compared to the other sub-1000rpm fans in my case. They are possibly the most well-behaved fans on the market when clipped onto a heatsink (ie. no change in sound profile, no resonance, no weird sounds). Must be that super smooth vapo bearing, zero wobble.

But as to keeping the AIO and subbing T30s, probably it won't make too much of a difference if the pump itself is just noisy. Even if 7700X doesn't put out much heat, probably don't want to run the pump too low. Be Quiet fans should already be reasonably quiet.

@Gmr_Chick the solution to unpredictable fan speed is a custom fan curve that is completely flat. Basically the custom water experience, but on air. No more obnoxious fan ramping.

 

[AusWolf]

1. Can't you just adjust your fan curve? Fan speed isn't crucial on water cooling anyway.

2. I just recently swapped a Silent Loop 2 280 mm with a Dark Rock 4 because the AIO performed like crap on the 7800X3D. It was my best decision ever since I built this PC.

 

[freeagent]

I think all AIOs are E-Waste.

But I am crusty like that

 

[pressing on]

The Be Quiet! Pure Loop 2 FX 360mm has fans that max out at 2500 rpm, so they will be noisy anywhere near top speed. Rather than replace the AIO or the fans you could consider using a Low Noise Adapter (LNA ) that will cut the fan speeds at all settings. An example is the Noctua NA-SRC7, see graphic. One LNA is fitted per fan, between the fan connector and the PWM/RGB hub.

 

[iameatingjam]

I have limited experience with cpu coolers I've only had a few but the one air cooler I had was the peerless assassin and I found it way too loud. Plus it couldn't keep my 11600k at max boost for more than like a second. Now I have a 240mm artic liquid freezer II and it works very well on my 13600k. So well infact that I think I'm going to upgrade to the 14700k when it comes out, depending on reception of course.

Its also quieter than the peerless assassin, but I have changed cpus so I can't really directly compare performance. I suspect the freezer II is better as it keeps 5.1ghz while staying 30c (EDIT: at idle). Whereas my 11600k would shoot through the roof if it stayed at 4.9 even if it was idle. However its a different architecture so I don't really don't know.

Oh i just remembered another thing that bothered me about the assassin was the size. It was directly rubbing against my 4090 and my it just made my whole case feel super cramped.

 

[claes]

30* on load?

 

[iameatingjam]

30* on load?

Are you talking to me? No, not on load. It was meant to be inferred since I compared it to the 11600k which I stated was hot even at idle, but I will clarify.

Wouldn't be very fair to compare a cpu/cooler at idle to one at full load I would think...

 

[Gmr_Chick]

• On a budget: Thermalright PA120, PS120SE, FC140, FS140
• On a budget with money for fans: Thermalright + quiet fans like A12x25, Silent Wings 4, T30-120, or Deepcool
• Money: NH-D15/D15S or U12A + Noctua's offset brackets
• Completely quiet with no additional work: Dark Rock Pro 4

I would not use an AIO on any CPU that by design is incapable of stretching its legs (ie. density interferes long before wattage can get high enough to warrant water). Especially not a 360mm that offers utterly no advantage of a 1CCD.

If wanting to get temps down a bit, do some CO offset and combine it with lower power limits to get the temps down, and/or set a lower temp target.

My top choice if I decide on air looks to be the Noctua U12A with the offset brackets. I find it less bulky than the D15. 2nd choice is the Dark Rock Pro 4. I've already got 4 of the 140mm Silent Wings 4 fans in my case as intake/exhaust.

 

[tabascosauz]

My top choice if I decide on air looks to be the Noctua U12A with the offset brackets. I find it less bulky than the D15. 2nd choice is the Dark Rock Pro 4. I've already got 4 of the 140mm Silent Wings 4 fans in my case as intake/exhaust.

I'd say U12A with a Chromax cover is the top choice there for looks and clearance. Performance-wise on Ryzen U12A is probably a bit behind all of those coolers, doesn't help that it's also more expensive than all of them (more than 2 or 3 of those Thermalright coolers combined).

Still, all of them are way more than enough on a properly optimized 7700X and you don't have to go buy more fans on the U12A. The front fan on 120mm dual towers (PA120, PS120, AK620) can be annoying if you have RAM that is taller than Flare/Ripjaws S5 (ie. the Tridents you have). Both U12A and DRP4 are good options to set and forget. Especially the DRP4 because no sane human being willingly goes back in to mess with the mounting again without good cause

Is the pump noisy or quiet on the AIO?

 

[Gmr_Chick]

I'd say U12A with a Chromax cover is the top choice there for looks and clearance. Performance-wise on Ryzen U12A is probably a bit behind all of those coolers, doesn't help that it's also more expensive than all of them (more than 2 or 3 of those Thermalright coolers combined).

Still, all of them are way more than enough on a properly optimized 7700X and you don't have to go buy more fans on the U12A. The front fan on 120mm dual towers (PA120, PS120, AK620) can be annoying if you have RAM that is taller than Flare/Ripjaws S5 (ie. the Tridents you have). Both U12A and DRP4 are good options to set and forget. Especially the DRP4 because no sane human being willingly goes back in to mess with the mounting again without good cause

Is the pump noisy or quiet on the AIO?

I'm actually interested in getting one of those covers and doing artistic things to it to match my build I do have to agree that the U12A is already expensive enough on its own, like you mentioned, but then you factor in the cost of the cover and the offset bracket, and that drives the cost up even more.

It sounds like the DRP4 mounting is a pain in the ass, if I go by what you're saying? I know the backplate on AM5 boards is far better than AM4 (i.e. doesn't require a second set of hands to hold in place) but....I think back to this Cooler Master air cooler I had some years ago, and the horrors of trying to mount it.... In short, I never again want to deal with coolers that are an absolute pita to mount

The pump at full tilt is actually really quiet. I can just barely hear a soft whirring sound from it.

A couple other air coolers I'm really interested in are the new digital ones coming from DeepCool, as well as their GAMMAXX AG620 ARGB. Do you have any thoughts on either of these, Tabbie?

 

[tabascosauz]

I'm actually interested in getting one of those covers and doing artistic things to it to match my build I do have to agree that the U12A is already expensive enough on its own, like you mentioned, but then you factor in the cost of the cover and the offset bracket, and that drives the cost up even more.

It sounds like the DRP4 mounting is a pain in the ass, if I go by what you're saying? I know the backplate on AM5 boards is far better than AM4 (i.e. doesn't require a second set of hands to hold in place) but....I think back to this Cooler Master air cooler I had some years ago, and the horrors of trying to mount it.... In short, I never again want to deal with coolers that are an absolute pita to mount

The pump at full tilt is actually really quiet. I can just barely hear a soft whirring sound from it.

A couple other air coolers I'm really interested in are the new digital ones coming from DeepCool, as well as their GAMMAXX AG620 ARGB. Do you have any thoughts on either of these, Tabbie?

If the pump is quiet then I'm sure you could do with just a fan swap then I liked the plain white Chromax U12A cover a lot, but if I had to again I would use a regular silver U12A, looks better from the side than the Chromax stack (but black fans would cost you extra). I think they sell a couple different combinations on Amazon.

The backplate is nothing special on the DRP4, it's just that BQ uses that pesky crossbar mounting method for most of their coolers and the combination of unremovable top plate + barely enough clearance between fin stacks for the 135mm fan + worst fan clips on the market makes it annoying to deal with. If you want easy to mount/remount, probably any other cooler company is better. Thermalright, Deepcool and Noctua are similar, they just use the default AM4/AM5 backplate.

afaik the AG620 is just a cost-optimized AK620, like the PA120SE is a cost-optimized PA120. ie. no top plate, cheaper fans. Personally idk, Deepcool's defining feature is kinda their aesthetic (AK620 and Assassin IV) so a cost-optimized version is just like, a pricier PA120SE. Is RGB a must?

The AK620 Digital is very cool-looking. Just be aware that depending on your board, the height of Trident Z5s may break up the even aesthetics of any 120mm dual tower (AK620, AG620, PA120).

 

[nguyen]

I use ID-Cooling SE226XT cooler with Phantek T30 fan

 

[Space Lynx]

My top choice if I decide on air looks to be the Noctua U12A with the offset brackets. I find it less bulky than the D15. 2nd choice is the Dark Rock Pro 4. I've already got 4 of the 140mm Silent Wings 4 fans in my case as intake/exhaust.

I'm running the Thermalright Frost Commander 140, I never break 60 Celsius, not even in god of war on ultra settings. it cools amazingly well.

you don't need to spend a crazy amount on a good air cooler these days. I only paid 43 for mine, brand new. a cooler change isn't going to fix your issue though, cause the fans will ramp high cause those chips are designed to hit 95 celsius, you will need to change settings in bios or in AMD Ryzen Master software to make the chip run differently, i forget what settings to change, but I remember its fairly easy to do, where you basically don't lose performance, but it runs at much more reasonable temps.

i would ask in the ryzen owners thread what settings you can do quickly and easily to make your 7700x run quiet and cool, while still giving same performance. @Mussels care to help here? really no need for a new cooler, especially since you said the pump noise doesn't bother you... you just need to adjust some settings for that specific cpu.

 

[Chrispy_]

With a 7700X you have relatively low power consumption of ~140W at most. Sure, there's a thermal density issue where the cores themselves get up to 95C rapidly, but only 140 Watts are ever being transferred to the water, and that's all the radiator fans have to worry about.

a 360mm radiator, even a cheap aluminium one, is so overkill for 140W that you could likely run very low fan speeds and never run into coolant temperature issues. I would see what clocks are like at 800rpm which should be nearly silent. And yes, clocks, not temperatures. You're going to struggle to bring the temperatures down under load, simply because a lot of that is the thick IHS and default "boost to 95C" behaviour, but as long as it's not throttling back the clocks, you should be fine capping your AIO fans at, like, 40% fan speed and calling it a day.

I'd imagine, too, that the limiting factor in a 360mm AIO isn't the radiator or fans, but the anaemic pump and ultra-basic coldplate. You have so much radiator and fan headroom, especially at 140W, that you should never need more than 1000rpm. If you aren't satisfied with the bundled fan performance at low-RPM look at replacing them with some cheap static-pressure optimised ones like the Arctic P12's. That's an experiment that will only cost you $20 or so.

 

[AusWolf]

I'm running the Thermalright Frost Commander 140, I never break 60 Celsius, not even in god of war on ultra settings. it cools amazingly well.

you don't need to spend a crazy amount on a good air cooler these days. I only paid 43 for mine, brand new. a cooler change isn't going to fix your issue though, cause the fans will ramp high cause those chips are designed to hit 95 celsius, you will need to change settings in bios or in AMD Ryzen Master software to make the chip run differently, i forget what settings to change, but I remember its fairly easy to do, where you basically don't lose performance, but it runs at much more reasonable temps.

i would ask in the ryzen owners thread what settings you can do quickly and easily to make your 7700x run quiet and cool, while still giving same performance. @Mussels care to help here? really no need for a new cooler, especially since you said the pump noise doesn't bother you... you just need to adjust some settings for that specific cpu.

It won't hit 95 °C if your cooler can dissipate 142 W, and your CPU hits power limit. Coldplate design is crucial with Zen 4. Some coolers work well with it, some are absolute crap for no reason.

The easiest way to cool Zen 4 with any cooler is to set a 95 or 65 W TDP (eco mode) in the BIOS.

 

[Chrispy_]

It won't hit 95 °C if your cooler can dissipate 142 W, and your CPU hits power limit. Coldplate design is crucial with Zen 4. Some coolers work well with it, some are absolute crap for no reason.

Don't make the easy mistake of correlating temperature and power consumption (or rated TDP of a cooler) directly.

Thermal density matters. If you have a cooler that's capable of removing one Watt per square millimetre, for example, and CPUs with different die sizes, then you will have different temperatures on those CPUs with the same cooler at the same exact power consumption. It's not even that simple, either - since that gross oversimplification makes the incorrect assumption that power is consumed and converted into heat evenly across the entire die.

In reality:

• the cooler's capability to remove heat from different parts of the coldplate is a complex equation of fluid thermodynamics, pump flow rates, temperature gradients, temperature deltas, transfer efficiencies, etc.
• the CPU's "temperature reading" is just the hottest spot at any point in time, as the boost algorithm juggles the lion's share of the power consumption around a few different cores to spread out the heat as much as possible. The size of the hotspot area and their power consumption are variables in constant flux.
• the IHS and solder/paste adds a temperature delta between the die and the coldplate because it's a solid with its own thermal conductivity and temperature gradient based on its thickness. We have plenty of empirical data to show that de-lidding to remove the IHS from the equation is good for a 10-20% reduction in temperatures, and for AM5 with its thick IHS, it's closer to 20%.

Coolers that claim a TDP rating are confusing people, mainly because those TDP ratings are estimates based on a typical CPU at the time the rating was given, and presumably at max fan RPM and TJMax of the CPU before throttling. The rating is invalid for other CPUs, other fan speeds, and for anyone not wanting to run their CPU at the maximum non-throttling temperature.

Watts/mm^2 at a given noise rating and ambient delta would be far more useful and accurate but that's just going to confuse people even more than stamping "180W cooler" on the side of the box!

The easiest way to cool Zen 4 with any cooler is to set a 95 or 65 W TDP (eco mode) in the BIOS.

For real.
There's no need to run at 142W PPT (105W TDP) for a 7700X. I don't have a 7700X to try, and silicon lottery is a thing, but I would start my tuning at a PPT of 115W (equivalent to an 85W TDP) and go from there.

 

[Chomiq]

If your fans are boosting on basic tasks what are your temps? Zen 4 has higher operating temps and you need to adjust your fan curve to match it. Download FanControl and play with setting it up to follow specific sensors.

 

[Chrispy_]

If your fans are boosting on basic tasks what are your temps? Zen 4 has higher operating temps and you need to adjust your fan curve to match it. Download FanControl and play with setting it up to follow specific sensors.

I like using FanControl to tune fan profiles on the fly, but then set in the BIOS so it's not reliant of software.
IMO on AM5 it's not worth fighting the 95C temperature target. Just assume your CPU will run at 95C and tune your noise levels to be acceptable to you at that temperature.

Yes, you can overkill the cooling solution and prevent it from ever hitting 95C even under full load, but it's wasteful and most AIOs don't have flow rates or coldplate fins good enough to keep those hotspots in check through the chonky AM5 IHS.