Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

[AusWolf]

Phoenix-2's 4CU RDNA3 is not meaningfully different from any other Phoenix iGPU in terms of features. I don't see why it would be a problem just because it has 1/3 the CUs.

Sometimes GPUs get the main architecture CUs, but a video encode/decode unit from an older architecture to save die space or some other reason (like with the 6400/6500 XT). I hoe that's not the case here.

 

[tabascosauz]

Sometimes GPUs get the main architecture CUs, but a video encode/decode unit from an older architecture to save die space or some other reason (like with the 6400/6500 XT). I hoe that's not the case here.

The AV1 capabilities are across the entire RDNA3 line. But like Nvidia, maybe the # of encoders increases with die size. I don't think they advertise clear numbers on that like with RTX40.

I think it's safe to assume Phoenix has a potent UMC, but desktop parts are going to be fighting an uphill battle on memory speed. All the 4/8/12CU iGPUs want more bandwidth but doing DDR5-7000 isn't cheap on RAM or boards. The handhelds and laptops are laughing at us with LPDDR5x.

Can only hope that LPDDR5 is a paper tiger compared to real DDR5-6000+, and that the full Fabric/UCLK on desktop makes a big splash.

 

[AusWolf]

The AV1 capabilities are across the entire RDNA3 line. But like Nvidia, maybe the # of encoders increases with die size. I don't think they advertise clear numbers on that like with RTX40.

That's fine, then. As long as it plays all videos, I'm good.

All I need now is cheap A620 m-ITX boards which are non-existent at this point for some reason.

 

[Ruru]

I guess I can trust this being stable?

 

[freeagent]

Its ok, dunno about absolute stability, if it reboots on you then you will have your answer

 

[Ruru]

Its ok, dunno about absolute stability, if it reboots on you then you will have your answer

I'll have Realbench's stress test running for 30min as my friend recommended it as well

(posting on my 2nd PC so the main PC can do its thing without any distruption)

 

[freeagent]

I'll have Realbench's stress test running for 30min as my friend recommended it as well

(posting on my 2nd PC so the main PC can do its thing without any distruption)

I like Linpack for checking all core clocks, and is good at finding instabilities in your vddgs and such. For max single core clocks on a by core/thread basis I like SuperPi32m lol.. but I noticed you said earlier that you are running your old windows install from Zen2..I would ditch that with a quickness and get a fresh install in there

 

[Ruru]

I like Linpack for checking all core clocks, and is good at finding instabilities in your vddgs and such. For max single core clocks on a by core/thread basis I like SuperPi32m lol.. but I noticed you said earlier that you are running your old windows install from Zen2..I would ditch that with a quickness and get a fresh install in there

I have a fresh Win11 now, installed last week!

 

[80-watt Hamster]

I'll have Realbench's stress test running for 30min as my friend recommended it as well

(posting on my 2nd PC so the main PC can do its thing without any distruption)

WCG can reveal stability issues that no common stress test will find. Just sayin'.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

WCG can reveal stability issues that no common stress test will find. Just sayin'.

One way to recruit new members...

 

[80-watt Hamster]

One way to recruit new members...

I regret nothing.

 

[AusWolf]

One way to recruit new members...

You've got to admire the logic. If you're testing for stability, you may as well do it in a way that's useful for someone instead of just wasting power.

With that said, BOINC doesn't seem to be stressing my system as much as Cinebench does, so I don't know...

 

[80-watt Hamster]

You've got to admire the logic. If you're testing for stability, you may as well do it in a way that's useful for someone instead of just wasting power.

With that said, BOINC doesn't seem to be stressing my system as much as Cinebench does, so I don't know...

It depends on what kind of WUs you get. My temps can vary by almost 10C with no config changes. And full disclosure: it's not exactly a very good stress test. It's too variable, and the instabilities you do find are edge cases and nearly impossible to reproduce.

 

[Mussels]

Are the mobile/monolithic parts broken up into CCX's? I would have thought that would defeat the point of the compact design of Zen4c.

Also, I would LOVE to see Cinebench scaling comparisons of the 8500G and 8600G by power envelope. At what point does efficiency reign over power?

I mean that in previous designs they did it per CCX - now they arent.
This opens up a lot more combinations for them.

Yeah, CPU performance is fine, Zen 4c smaller cache, blah-blah, but what about the iGPU? Will it get all the video decode features that big RDNA 3 has? What about the pricing? It's a HTPC chip after all.

I'd also be interested to see cheap m-ITX A620 boards for a truly current-gen HTPC build, but so far, I found none. All the B650 ones are super gamery and cost over 200 quid, which is sad. This is the same thing that gets in the way of doing the same on Intel. The CPUs are there, Celerons and Pentiums all have their big brothers' iGPU for video decode, but motherboards are super expensive for some reason.

Good question, doubt anyone knows yet.
Motherboards were cheap during/before covid, but quality was atrocious in budget boards - i think a mix of covid raising prices and board makers getting public attention for quality control (ala asus 3D explodeys) has meant they turned QA back on, making prices higher.

 

[AusWolf]

Good question, doubt anyone knows yet.
Motherboards were cheap during/before covid, but quality was atrocious in budget boards - i think a mix of covid raising prices and board makers getting public attention for quality control (ala asus 3D explodeys) has meant they turned QA back on, making prices higher.

It's not just about QA. Why is there no mini-ITX A620 board out there? Why is there no board below the Asus Strix or MSi MPG on mini-ITX B650? I could ask the same about Intel. Mini-ITX has been solely reserved for top-end gaming these days. There's no chance to build a decent mini HTPC without overspending on the motherboard.

 

[A Computer Guy]

It's not just about QA. Why is there no mini-ITX A620 board out there? Why is there no board below the Asus Strix or MSi MPG on mini-ITX B650? I could ask the same about Intel. Mini-ITX has been solely reserved for top-end gaming these days. There's no chance to build a decent mini HTPC without overspending on the motherboard.

ASRock has an A620 ITX and B650 ITX now. I wasn't really enthusiastic about their B650E ITX because of the whopping 4 USB2 ports on the rear I/O. It just feels like a fundamental miscalculation and I want to puke when I read it has 6 USB 2.0 ports for the price of that board. The A620 for $139 paired with 7800x3d seems like an interesting prospect as a game machine if the VRM is good enough.

 

[AusWolf]

ASRock has an A620 ITX and B650 ITX now. I wasn't really enthusiastic about their B650E ITX because of the whopping 4 USB2 ports on the rear I/O. It just feels like a fundamental miscalculation and I want to puke when I read it has 6 USB 2.0 ports for the price of that board. The A620 for $139 paired with 7800x3d seems like an interesting prospect as a game machine if the VRM is good enough.

$139 is still on the high side for a HTPC, but way better than the £200+ Asus Strix and such. I'm not sure if it's available in the UK, though, I'll have a look.

 

[A Computer Guy]

$139 is still on the high side for a HTPC, but way better than the £200+ Asus Strix and such. I'm not sure if it's available in the UK, though, I'll have a look.

ASRocks B450 ITX was going for $139 recently so I guess a A620 ITX might be a lot better at that price. ITX prices are so difficult for good quality.

 

[freeagent]

I would get super buttery if they made a 5950X3D.. especially if it was stable at 1900 or better..

Edit:

My problem is I still want a 5950X.

 

[tabascosauz]

$139 is still on the high side for a HTPC, but way better than the £200+ Asus Strix and such. I'm not sure if it's available in the UK, though, I'll have a look.

The A620I AX is cheaper here than any of the decent B550s were (ie. not the B550M-ITX/ac). Complaining about ITX prices won't bring them down; trends are only going one way.

Baseline for ITX now is 8 layers, which places it firmly on par with last gen premium boards. You can point to any one of many factors (DDR5 signal integrity, PCIe, cooling a small Vcore power plane, denser boards need more layers to fit features, etc.), but there's no going back to dirt cheap 6-layer fare.

You can skimp ever so slightly on VRMs, but VRMs don't regress backwards either.

• A520I was almost a (modernized) carbon copy of B450I Aorus Pro Wifi, but on an 8-layer PCB. It never really got that affordable compared to B550.
• A620I is in a lot of ways similar to B550I AX, maybe only slightly behind on VRM capabilities. Both are 8-layer boards.

Also......B650I Aorus is a 12-layer board now it wasn't that long ago that we were raving about how the 10-layer Z490I Unify would usher in a new era of OC

 

[AusWolf]

ASRocks B450 ITX was going for $139 recently so I guess a A620 ITX might be a lot better at that price. ITX prices are so difficult for good quality.

One doesn't even need top quality for a HTPC - just a motherboard that works. An Asus Prime would do, but they don't make 'em in m-ITX form factor no more.

I wouldn't invest in a brand new AM4 system at the end of 2023, not even for a HTPC (although that 5700G has been tempting me ever since it came out).

 

[kapone32]

Just leave this here:

View attachment 321291

View attachment 321292

Gear Up for the AM5 Next Gen. APU with GIGABYTE Latest BIOS update | News - GIGABYTE Global

November 10, 2023 –GIGABYTE TECHNOLOGY Co. Ltd, a leading manufacturer of motherboards, graphics cards, and hardware solutions, released the latest AGESA 1....

www.gigabyte.com

A620 boards are nice and inexpensive. I am salivating for these. If the 8700G is what I think it could be this could be sweet. So Nvidia does the High end and AMD does the budget at CES. The world seems to be normal.

The A620I AX is cheaper here than any of the decent B550s were (ie. not the B550M-ITX/ac). Complaining about ITX prices won't bring them down; trends are only going one way.

Baseline for ITX now is 8 layers, which places it firmly on par with last gen premium boards. You can point to any one of many factors (DDR5 signal integrity, PCIe, cooling a small Vcore power plane, denser boards need more layers to fit features, etc.), but there's no going back to dirt cheap 6-layer fare.

You can skimp ever so slightly on VRMs, but VRMs don't regress backwards either.

• A520I was almost a (modernized) carbon copy of B450I Aorus Pro Wifi, but on an 8-layer PCB. It never really got that affordable compared to B550.
• A620I is in a lot of ways similar to B550I AX, maybe only slightly behind on VRM capabilities. Both are 8-layer boards.

Also......B650I Aorus is a 12-layer board now it wasn't that long ago that we were raving about how the 10-layer Z490I Unify would usher in a new era of OC

It looks like A620 is perfect for APUs. DDR5 support and scaling is something I want to experiment on with these APUs.

 

[tabascosauz]

A620 boards are nice and inexpensive. I am salivating for these. If the 8700G is what I think it could be this could be sweet. So Nvidia does the High end and AMD does the budget at CES. The world seems to be normal.


It looks like A620 is perfect for APUs. DDR5 support and scaling is something I want to experiment on with these APUs.

My problem is that A620I AX is the only available A620 board right now. I want Phoenix to play with, but I will not buy Gigabyte because I have no way of confirming that they have finally fixed their slot power throttling problem. RTX A2000 unusable with the bug.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/15y0la3
Maybe another board maker will pick up the slack.........if the board is affordable, i'm willing to go out and buy a good Hynix A kit, they're cheaper than B-die for double the capacity.

Another consideration for the APUs is whether budget A620 boards will actually support the mem speeds we want (ie. 8000+). When AMD really opened up the unsynced memory speeds, I think everyone including ir_cow did their testing on high end boards, for which A-die is no problem (Intel owners been doing 7000-8000 for ages already). A620I AX would be theoretically more comparable to the low end 6-layer MSI boards, I don't think I've seen anyone (yet) use those to OC A-die unsynced.

 

[Mussels]

It's not just about QA. Why is there no mini-ITX A620 board out there? Why is there no board below the Asus Strix or MSi MPG on mini-ITX B650? I could ask the same about Intel. Mini-ITX has been solely reserved for top-end gaming these days. There's no chance to build a decent mini HTPC without overspending on the motherboard.

If costs go up, the low profit margin boards are cut first.
I had to pay $300 Au for an ITX motherboard that wasnt pure trash, when AM5 was already out. A year earlier had an equal quality board for $180Au.

 

[ViperXTR]

5800X3D still sitting at 305usd on my region, i wonder if it's still worth it paired with a 4070 vs my current 5800X