7800X3D vs 14900K video by HWUB. What would you choose for gaming?

[phanbuey]

That is why it is called gaming CPU. For the price you pay for that one just for gaming, you get excellent performance for half the price of Intel's. You can also do other stuff with it as you please although a tad slower. I don't mind that considering the price.

Right but the OP is about the fairness of the HWUB video....

They took a 14900K - which competes with a 7950X3D in price, and then only focused on gaming vs a 7800X3D, and declared it the super-ultimate winner with no Cons whatsoever.

They could have done the same video with a 14600K and come to the same conclusion - which is why that comparison is kind of skewed.

He also literally says "I tried to think of some cons of the 7800x3d and couldn't come up with any!" -- guy who failed a 7800x3d build on livestream due to motherboard/platform issues.

 

[AusWolf]

Right but the OP is about the fairness of the HWUB video....

They took a 14900K - which competes with a 7950X3D in price, and then only focused on gaming vs a 7800X3D, and declared it the ultimate winner.

They could have done the same video with a 14600K and come to the same conclusion - which is why that comparison is kind of skewed.

Intel markets (or used to market) the i9 product line as the ultimate gaming processors. To test this claim, I think it's fair to test it against any X3D, which is also marketed by the same slogan.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

And that's cool! I just don't see how any of this takes away from the 7800X3D's value.

7800X3D is not a good universal CPU, it is special product for gaming only.

... At least if you get a 7800X3D you have an upgrade path.

Are you sure that first gen X670E boards will have a long upgrade path? I think that nobody wants a first gen product to hinder a performance of a whole platform for long years. If AMD find they need to brake compatibility of future CPUs with these first boards, they will do it.

 

[AusWolf]

7800X3D is not a good universal CPU, it is special product for gaming only.

And?

 

[phanbuey]

Intel markets (or used to market) the i9 product line as the ultimate gaming processors. To test this claim, I think it's fair to test it against any X3D, which are also marketed by the same slogan.

The i9 is the top desktop SKU -- same as the ryzen 9. AMD markets the 7950X3D as "the best of both worlds" which is much closer to what the 14900K is.

the i5-14600K is intel's "gaming focused" chip - and yes it gets spanked by the 7800x3d, but not by a whole lot, and it's cheaper and uses loads less power. A much fairer comparison would have been the $315 14600k. Or even better-- the $260 13600KF.

 

[AusWolf]

The i9 is the top desktop SKU -- same as the ryzen 9. AMD markets the 7950X3D as "the best of both worlds" which is much closer to what the 14900K is.

the i5-14600K is intel's "gaming focused" chip - and yes it gets spanked by the 7800x3d, but not by a whole lot, and it's cheaper and uses loads less power. A much fairer comparison would have been the $315 14600k.

So is the Core i5 the "ultimate gaming processor" now according to Intel? I think it's still the i9.

Anyway, the point is that if you want to game, then save yourself some money and power, and don't buy a Core i9. Buy a 7800X3D instead (or an i5, which I assume, the video didn't say, but is an equally valid alternative).

 

[Aquinus]

That is why it is called gaming CPU. For the price you pay for that one just for gaming, you get excellent performance for half the price of Intel's. You can also do other stuff with it as you please although a tad slower. I don't mind that considering the price.

I question the "slower" aspect. For thread-bound tasks, the extra cache should make a significant difference depending on memory access patterns. This is why gaming benefits from it, however there are other tasks that benefit from it as well. Like I mentioned before, W1zz's review and Michael at Phoronix's review were inconsistent. For example, the geometric mean comparison from Michael's 14900k review:

Intel Core i5 14600K & Intel Core i9 14900K Linux Benchmarks Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

That's a 9% 25% uplift with the Intel chip on average for what, 80% more cost? That's also outside of the scope of video games as no games were tested in this review. So that's for purely compute workloads.

Edit: I fixed the math. Definitely doesn't sound as good after that, however it really depends on the workload. Most of these tests are not what consumers are going to be doing since these are HPC tasks and other computationally demanding jobs that most people won't be running. My point is that the loss of performance doesn't justify spending that much more for an Intel product.

 

[phanbuey]

So is the Core i5 the "ultimate gaming processor" now according to Intel? I think it's still the i9.

Anyway, the point is that if you want to game, then save yourself some money and power, and don't buy a Core i9. Buy a 7800X3D instead (or an i5, which I assume, the video didn't say, but is an equally valid alternative).

Yes - the i5 is literally "the gaming first line"....

the "Ultimate" processor is the i9 - which does "everything" better.

AMD tried this with the 7950X3D but couldn't get the scheduler to work so thats why of course we don't hear about it.

 

[ratirt]

Right but the OP is about the fairness of the HWUB video....

They took a 14900K - which competes with a 7950X3D in price, and then only focused on gaming vs a 7800X3D, and declared it the super-ultimate winner with no Cons whatsoever.

They could have done the same video with a 14600K and come to the same conclusion - which is why that comparison is kind of skewed.

He also literally says "I tried to think of some cons of the 7800x3d and couldn't come up with any!" -- guy who failed a 7800x3d build on livestream due to motherboard/platform issues.

I dont care what the OP is about. His premise is wrong and intentionally disruptive. I dont also care about what he feels like the 7800x3d is for gaming. The fact is, 7800x3d is one of the best for gaming considering price, power usage and performance. It is not about what he feels or thinks but rather what the fact is. We all know what the facts are and if people dont want to accept them, they are the problem.
and why they took 14900K? Is that one the fastest for gaming from Intel's cpu stack or is it not? What HWUB is testing? The best (meaning fastest) CPU for gaming. So which are the 2 fastest?
14900K and 7800x3d? right. There you have your answer why HWUB took these two for comparison.

7800X3D is not a good universal CPU, it is special product for gaming only.

and what is this thread about and what people here have been saying? Best for gaming right?
Universal best or universal good? Universal best no. Universal good absolutely yes. Best for gaming absolutely yes.

 

[Assimilator]

the i5-14600K is intel's "gaming focused" chip

How, exactly, is it "gaming focused"? Because Intel says so?

uses loads less power

False.

Intel Core i5-14600K Review - Impressive OC Potential

Intel Core i5-14600K is the most affordable new processor released today. While it may look weaker on paper it still packs an impressive punch, especially for gaming. In our review we reached an impressive 5.7 GHz on all cores, which unlocks quite a bit of additional performance.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[phanbuey]

I dont care what the OP is about. His premise is wrong and intentionally disruptive. I dont also care about what he feels like the 7800x3d is for gaming. The fact is, 7800x3d is one of the best for gaming considering price, power usage and performance. It is not about what he feels or thinks but rather what the fact is. We all know what the facts are and if people dont want to accept them, they are the problem.
and why they took 14900K? Is that one the fastest for gaming from Intel's cpu stack or is it not? What HWUB is testing? The best (meaning fastest) CPU for gaming. So which are the 2 fastest?
14900K and 7800x3d? right. There you have your answer why HWUB took these two for comparison.

It's still a misleading comparison - because then he goes in to power and cost reasoning without mentioning that "oh this one is like 50-100% faster in applications" and is not the right SKU if you're just gaming anyway. It also ignores the fact that the 7950X3D was SUPPOSED to be the ultimate processor but they couldn't get it working right.

The real comparison here is the 14900K vs 7950X3D and the i5 13600k/14600K vs the 7800X3D -- those are the true lineups.

How, exactly, is it "gaming focused"? Because Intel says so?


False.

Intel Core i5-14600K Review - Impressive OC Potential

Intel Core i5-14600K is the most affordable new processor released today. While it may look weaker on paper it still packs an impressive punch, especially for gaming. In our review we reached an impressive 5.7 GHz on all cores, which unlocks quite a bit of additional performance.

www.techpowerup.com

Loads less power than the 14900K lol.

 

[AusWolf]

View attachment 325400

Yes - the i5 is literally "the gaming first line"....

the "Ultimate" processor is the i9 - which does "everything" better.

AMD tried this with the 7950X3D but couldn't get the scheduler to work so thats why of course we don't hear about it.

Ah... then HU should have put the 14900K vs 7800X3D vs 14600K, and drawn a conclusion of "don't waste your money on an i9 if you only game". I see their point (the best vs the best), but it could have been executed better.

 

[Aquinus]

How, exactly, is it "gaming focused"? Because Intel says so?


False.

Intel Core i5-14600K Review - Impressive OC Potential

Intel Core i5-14600K is the most affordable new processor released today. While it may look weaker on paper it still packs an impressive punch, especially for gaming. In our review we reached an impressive 5.7 GHz on all cores, which unlocks quite a bit of additional performance.

www.techpowerup.com

I'm actually surprised that the difference is that stark between the i5 and the 7800X3D. I would have expected that with the 14900k, not a lower end chip.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

...
The real comparison here is the 14900K vs 7950X3D and the i5 13600k/14600K vs the 7800X3D -- those are the true lineups.

Yep.

 

[phanbuey]

Ah... then HU should have put the 14900K vs 7800X3D vs 14600K, and drawn a conclusion of "don't waste your money on an i9 if you only game". I see their point (the best vs the best), but it could have been executed better.

You can see the absurdity by imagining that they used the 7950X3D instead of the 14900K.

It would have been the exact same video "it uses more power, is way more expensive, and gets less fps - duh".

And all the 7950X3D owners would be like "uh... steve it's got double the cores... and I use it for other stuff".

 

[freeagent]

An i9 would never be in my future, I am aiming somewhere down the middle

 

[ratirt]

It's still a misleading comparison - because then he goes in to power and cost reasoning without mentioning that "oh this one is like 50-100% faster in applications" and is not the right SKU if you're just gaming anyway. It also ignores the fact that the 7950X3D was SUPPOSED to be the ultimate processor but they couldn't get it working right.

But they are testing the fastest for gaming from the two camps. What is it that you dont understand?
14600K still loses to 7800x3d in gaming and consumes more power than 7800x3d. What they did is test the fastest FOR GAMING from both camps. What that means is, their main focus is gaming performance in that comparison.

 

[AusWolf]

You can see the absurdity by imagining that they used the 7950X3D instead of the 14900K.

It would have been the exact same video "it uses more power, is way more expensive, and gets less fps - duh".

And all the 7950X3D owners would be like "uh... steve it's got double the cores... and I use it for other stuff".

Except that the 7950X3D isn't AMD's best for gaming thanks to the scheduler not working as intended.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

I'm actually surprised that the difference is that stark between the i5 and the 7800X3D. I would have expected that with the 14900k, not a lower end chip.

Why should you be, Intel is using an old manufacturing process, which gives them 30% efficiency disadvantage. 14600K is also a massive 14 core CPU, much more powerful and power hungry than 7800X3D. 7800X3D is like a speciality tool crafted and optimised for gaming made with a modern technology.

 

[phanbuey]

Except that the 7950X3D isn't AMD's best for gaming thanks to the scheduler not working as intended.

Right -- so now you're basically relying on failed segmentation to make a point.

But they are testing the fastest for gaming from the two camps. What is it that you dont understand?
14600K still loses to 7800x3d in gaming and consumes more power than 7800x3d. What they did is test the fastest FOR GAMING from both camps. What that means is, their main focus is gaming performance in that comparison.

Right but the whole premise is based on the fact that the 7950X3D isn't working as intended. And so now you have this weird comparison that ONLY focuses on gaming, but uses intel's top SKU, vs a midrange AMD SKU (because AMD's top SKU is slower) and then is like "FOR GAMING THE MID RANGE SKU MAKES WAY MORE SENSE".

Uh.. yeah... for gaming an i5 makes more sense too... what's your point?

 

[AusWolf]

Right -- so now you're basically relying on failed segmentation to make a point.

No. I'm relying on raw gaming performance data. The 14900K is Intel's fastest gaming CPU, just as much as the 7800X3D is AMD's.

 

[phanbuey]

No. I'm relying on raw gaming performance data. The 14900K is Intel's fastest gaming CPU, just as much as the 7800X3D is AMD's.

I mean.... ok. We can play that game - but anyone with a brain would understand that if you're ONLY GAMING you probably shouldn't spend double the money and add an extra 100W of power for that last 2 fps.

 

[AusWolf]

View attachment 325402View attachment 325403
I mean.... ok. We can play that game - but anyone with a brain would understand that if you're ONLY GAMING you probably shouldn't spend double the money and add an extra 100W of power for that last 2 fps.

Absolutely! But I don't think that was the point of this test. It's probably more like a clash of titans kind of comparison, rather than actual buying advice.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

Absolutely! But I don't think that was the point of this test. It's probably more like a clash of titans kind of comparison, rather than actual buying advice.

7800X3D is not a Titan, it is a specialized midget very good at what it is specialized at. Usually nobody would make fun of Titan needing more food than a midget...

 

[AusWolf]

7800X3D is not a Titan, it is a specialized midget very good at what it is specialized at. Usually nobody would make fun of Titan needing more food than a midget...

Huh? Are you saying that a CPU needing more power is a good thing now?