NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Super Founders Edition

[Legacy-ZA]

That is what the 4070 should have been from the start

Precisely.

It still needs to be near the $500 mark though. Well, more like $450 even. It's not a Ti

 

[BoggledBeagle]

Look at it this way:

In September 2020 Nvidia launched RTX 3080 for $699.

And here we are, 3,5 years later, looking at the card that's barely faster, barely cheaper, and if rumours are true, it in fact won't be any cheaper!

$699 from that time is more than $820 today.

Now you can get a card 15% quicker, for 25% less money, consuming 30% less energy. More than 50% performance per dollar improvement. 75% performance per watt improvement.

Not enough for you? Sure, these numbers can always be higher. Or lower?!

 

[nguyen]

So the 4070S is pretty much the efficiency champ (just a touch lower than the poorly fated rtx4080), can fit into small chassics while delivering more than playable FPS in any game at 1440p/4K.

Would be a go to GPU for any LAN lover out there

 

[Why_Me]

Look at it this way:

In September 2020 Nvidia launched RTX 3080 for $699. Sure, due to cryptomadness not a lot of people could buy it at that price, but nonetheless.

And here we are, 3,5 years later, looking at the card that's barely faster, barely cheaper, and if rumours are true, it in fact won't be any cheaper!

You bring up a good point. Let's look at the numbers.

RTX 3080 10GB (DLSS 2.0) MSRP: $700 (Released 2020)
RTX 4070 Super 12GB (DLSS 3.0) MSRP: $600 (Released 2024)

1080P Average FPS
RTX 3080 10GB: 139.1
RTX 4070 Super 12GB: 157.6

1440P Average FPS
RTX 3080 10GB: 106.1
RTX 4070 Super 12GB: 118.6

4K Average FPS
RTX 3080 10GB: 63.6
RTX 4070 Super 12GB: 67.5

Power Consumption While Gaming
RTX 3080 10GB: 336W
RTX 4070 Super 12GB: 218W

 

[RandallFlagg]

$699 from that time is more than $820 today.

Now you can get a card 15% quicker, for 25% less money, consuming 30% less energy. More than 50% performance per dollar improvement. 75% performance per watt improvement.

Not enough for you? Sure, these numbers can always be higher. Or lower?!

Fact check: True

$699 in 2020 is $822.94 in 2023 money (and rising).

The $600 4070 Super price is equivalent to $509 in 2020 dollars.

 

[Legacy-ZA]

Fact check: True

$699 in 2020 is $822.94 in 2023 money (and rising).

The $600 4070 Super price is equivalent to $509 in 2020 dollars.

View attachment 330073

Inflation, inflation, blah blah,

People's salaries hardly ever increase to compensate for this scam. Inflation's design is to make people even poorer over time and make the rich, even richer. The result is a wage slave, you have enough to eat and live paycheck to paycheck, but little for anything else, unless you risk your sleep hours to compensate, most people even have more than one job and still struggle.

 

[Bwaze]

$699 from that time is more than $820 today.

Now you can get a card 15% quicker, for 25% less money, consuming 30% less energy. More than 50% performance per dollar improvement. 75% performance per watt improvement.

Not enough for you? Sure, these numbers can always be higher. Or lower?!

Yes, definitely not enough for me.

It used to be roughly 40% - 60% performance uplift in one generation for about the same amount of money. Now the Moore is truly dead, people say.

And your calculations are really generous. At 4K there's only 5% difference between cards, and how many people really have 18% higher salaries than in 2020?

 

[Why_Me]

Yes, definitely not enough for me.

It used to be roughly 40% - 60% performance uplift in one generation for about the same amount of money. Now the Moore is truly dead, people say.

If you want a more apples to apples comparison then let's wait for the reviews of the 2024 $800 RTX 4070 Ti Super 16GB and then we can compare it to the 2020 $700 RTX 3080 10GB.

 

[Vayra86]

If you want a more apples to apples comparison then let's wait for the reviews of the 2024 $800 RTX 4070 Ti Super 16GB and then we can compare it to the 2020 $700 RTX 3080 10GB.

Still is $100,- more much the same though. The more you buy... the more you buy?

 

[MarsM4N]

You bring up a good point. Let's look at the numbers.

RTX 3080 10GB (DLSS 2.0) MSRP: $700 (Released 2020)
RTX 4070 Super 12GB (DLSS 3.0) MSRP: $600 (Released 2024)

Another number:

the RTX 3080 was never available for MSRP. Thanks to scalpers the price never dropped below 1200€ the first year after release. Around Christmas even peaked at 2000€.

Inflation, inflation, blah blah,

People's salaries hardly ever increase to compensate for this scam. Inflation's design is to make people even poorer over time and make the rich, even richer. The result is a wage slave, you have enough to eat and live paycheck to paycheck, but little for anything else, unless you risk your sleep hours to compensate, most people even have more than one job and still struggle.

That's some "Stuff They Don't Want You to Know". And lots of sheep just don't wanna know (smily galore). Do not click if you're team blue pill.

Spoiler: Stuff They Don't Want You to Know

 

[wolf]

It's pretty normal for a company with a competitive edge to use that edge as leverage for more profit. It sucks for the consumer, but it's not unexpected behaviour for a company. They aren't benevolent entities.

It's easy to sit at a keyboard as a consumer and crap all over corporations for charging what they charge for luxury items (I mean, we're not talking water and bread here), so easy in fact we see it a lot, so much that people become obessed with CEO's, either positively or negatively. I'd wager many, or most, perhaps all of those people if they were a market leader with a given product [range] would also charge as much as they could possibly get away with too. I won't ask them that hypothetical, because of course it's just as easy to claim what you'd do in those shoes, without ever needing to actually take a single step in them.

Another number:

the RTX 3080 was never available for MSRP. Thanks to scalpers the price never dropped below 1200€. Around Christmas even peaked around 2000€.

I got mine at launch for MSRP, it was possible, just for so exceptionally few buyers that it barely matters, first wave of stock only, at best.

 

[Pepamami]

I do not play sim or heavy strategy games so I can't speak for those but some of the Vram hog games from the past year or so are mostly fixed by now. 'Last of us for example and Hogwarts is also okay with a 8 GB card as long as you don't use RT'

Its not ok, I got micro-freezes and low-ress textures in Hogwards on 3070 Ti, this is the time when GPU was chocked on "low ram", and you can find a lot of more example of poorly optimized games vs 8GB.
Also its not about 12GB itself, its more about Nvidia pulling this stuff, it feels like they artificially trying to make this GPU life span as short as possible, to force people to buy new gpus as soon as possible.

 

[Onasi]

I feel that the 7800XT will have superior longevity due to it's 16gb framebuffer.

It will not. We’ve been over this. As more and more games will start to include RT as default (or at the very least highly intended option) in their render pipeline the 7800XT will absolutely fall behind and no amount of VRAM will help it. We have seen it in Avatar. We have seen it in AW2. Its lesser RT capability will kill it faster than 4070S limited VRAM buffer will kill it. And by the time it will matter both cards will be obsolete for high settings AAA games anyway.

 

[Bwaze]

Another number:

the RTX 3080 was never available for MSRP. Thanks to scalpers the price never dropped below 1200€ the first year after release. Around Christmas even peaked at 2000€.

Well I do live in a bacground hole, and that had it's benefits - RTX 3080 actually launched at MSRP everywhere, but was quickly grabbed by the cryptoidiots - except here, where time moves a bit slower. So I could get a basic RTX 3080 for around 850 EUR (MSRP with tax was about 820 EUR) in November 2020 when it was obvious it would only get more expensive. And you could still buy it below 1000 EUR at Christmas time, where search engines showed lowest price all over Europe at 1600 EUR.

 

[Onasi]

RTX 3080 actually launched at MSRP everywhere, but was quickly grabbed by the cryptoidiots

I need my morning coffee I guess, because I read it as “cryptids” and immediately got an image of a Chupacabra skittering away into the dark with a 3080 in its teeth.

 

[Bwaze]

I need my morning coffee I guess, because I read it as “cryptids” and immediately got an image of a Chupacabra skittering away into the dark with a 3080 in its teeth.

Well right now the crypto miners are about as common as Chupacabras, untill the next big crypto wave. Then your hairdresser will be talking about mining with gaming card again.

 

[W1zzard]

What's the point of unreasonable low price options in price / peeformance charts? RTX 4070 Super for $450?

These are theoretical "what if" "what does it take" entries. Any thoughts how I can make that more clear?

 

[Vayra86]

These are theoretical "what if" "what does it take" entries. Any thoughts how I can make that more clear?

You could try adding an '@ MSRP $600,-' with the entry that isn't theoretical. Right now there's no direct relation in reading those different entries, so the 'real' price doesn't stand out.

Other than that you can't fix people that scan text at maximum speed, they get minimum info, tis a fact of life.

 

[Math75]

Hi everyone, I see a lot of comment about Vram.

As an owner of a 4070, I can tell you that in some games (in 4K), I hurt the Vram limit, even with maxed settings (ray tracing and frame generation need Vram).

So ok you will tell me :
- they are not optimized. I agree with you, but there is more and more games like that.
- It's not a card for 4K. Maybe, but It can do it easily in some games so why not ?

The 4070 Super is worth : you need a new PSU (and the standard of this cable is not fixed) , you will do less compromises than the 4070 but the Vram limit is here (That will be funny to put all settings on ultra and sorry you have to mixt because Vram is limited...)

One year ago, and if this card was the real 4070, I would have said yes for this card, now with the rtx 50XX at the end of the year, It's not possible.

 

[las]

Not sure why we are seeing the complaints. It's better in every way to the 4070 for the same price.

Most people complaining can't even afford to buy one, nothing new.

And its easy to see that pretty much zero people have experience with 12VHPWR or 12V-2x6 in this thread. This is the future for GPU power and AMD will use it as well next gen. Part of ATX 3.x spec.

I love 12VHPWR, zero issues and had it since release. Much less cables and connectors, looks better when installed. I used native 12VHPWR since day one and it clicked right in. Absolutely never going back to having 3 or even 4 x 8 pin connectors for the same amount of power.

 

[W1zzard]

Right now there's no direct relation in reading those different entries, so the 'real' price doesn't stand out.

It's colored differently? Maybe I should use a different color, i.e. not greenish

 

[las]

It's a good match for the 7800XT in terms of performance/$, with the advantage of faster RT performance and the disadvantage of 12GB being barely acceptable for a $600 GPU still.

What this does highlight for sure is that the vanilla 4070 needs to come down in price more. $499 would be a more reasonable price for it.

7800XT should be 399 then, the features are simply lacking way too much. People are not paying Nvidia prices for AMD hardware. Loking at raster perf and nothing else is a big no-no in 2024. Upscaling is here to stay. It replaced AA and DLAA and FSR Native exist, beating native IQ with AA on top with ease, in both visuals and performance.

If AMD intends to regrab marketshare, then they need to price their cards more agressively. Or they will loose even more.

Also, they need to improve their features to be comparable to Nvidias. DLSS/DLAA beats FSR in every game. DLSS FG beats AFMF easily. Ray Tracing and Path Tracing runs way better on Nvidia. Reflex is better than Anti Lag+ that got people banned on Steam. Shadowplay has better quality, less perf hit and better platform comp (Twitch etc), than ReLive.

Also AMD often lacks launch drivers for new games, and good optimizing in general when you leave the most popular games. Early access games often runs alot worse on AMD GPUs. Go read Steam discussions and you will see AMD users complain alot more, even tho 80% of PC gamers use Nvidia. Developers knows this too and probably use Nvidia themselves.

And all this, is the reason why AMD can't demand Nvidia prices for their GPUs. AMD mainly focus on CPUs and APUs, not GPUs. Nvidia does, and it shows.


Besides 12GB is plenty for 99% of PC gamers and this won't change before 2028 when next gen consoles hit. Current gen has 16GB shared memory for entire system and barely uses 8GB for most demanding games on the platforms, while targetting dynamic 4K/UHD. 95% of PC gamers use 1440p or less.

96% of users on Steam have 12GB VRAM or less. Biggest and most popular gaming pc platform by far. Gives a clear picture of PC gaming market. And you think developers will raise VRAM requirements to 16+ GB anytime soon?


SUPER refresh should force AMD into doing this;

7800XT down to 449 or even 399
7900XT down to sub 600
7900XTX down to sub 800

Or sales will crumble. They are nowhere near Nvidias 4000 series in terms of sales even before SUPER refresh. The worst priced (but good and efficient) card, 4080, sold way better than entire 7000 series according to Steam. 7700XT, 7800XT and 7900XT is not even present in top 100 most popular GPUs.

 

[Bwaze]

These are theoretical "what if" "what does it take" entries. Any thoughts how I can make that more clear?

But can we really expect any lower price? The higher values are even more plausible right now, and would also be an interesting "what if", and "what does it take" - at what point it becomes just too absurd to even consider PC gaming?

 

[Onasi]

It's colored differently? Maybe I should use a different color, i.e. not greenish

Yeah, that would be the best, I think. Depending on the screen and ones personal color perception (which is variable between people, even without color blindness) the current slightly different shades of green can be a bit confusing.
Maybe yellow-gold-ish for theoretical prices? Like gold as a good potential deal?

 

[W1zzard]

But can we really expect any lower price? The higher values are even more plausible right now, and would also be an interesting "what if", and "what does it take" - at what point it becomes just too absurd to even consider PC gaming?

That's a good point, I will add some more expensive options, too.

It's not about expecting any pricing, but getting a feel for how far from other options the current pricing is. Without the colored bars you'd have to do a lot of mental gymnastics, which can be difficult for many

Yeah, that would be the best, I think. Depending on the screen and ones personal color perception (which is variable between people, even without color blindness) the current slightly different shades of green can be a bit confusing.

Thanks for the feedback