7700X lapping, replace IHS or direct die cooling?

[taka]

I wanted to remove/shave also 1.5-2mm from the Zen 3 IHS but after some time spent learning more about the issue i gave up. The problem is not the IHS but the die size and placement. Also from die size and heat generated at such low surface, thermodynamics laws dont help also. The heat propagation from such a small area it's not helped by the placement and the thickness of the IHS.

Yes a delid will help keeping at bay the temps, but the issue comes from desing. AM4 comp...

Your cooler also has to transfer the heat 5 times.
1. From cold plate to heatpipes
2. From heat pipe to vapour
3. From vapour to heat pipe
4. From heatpipe to fin stack
5. From finstack to air

Reduced heat exchange cycles like in the water block can help a bit but not much if the heat source is not centered on the coldplate.

Der8auer had a idea for this that works fine. Direct die waterblock. As you cans see here the finstack offset.

Now with enough spare time and money some issues can be solved. But at the end of the day you still have to answer the question, "does it worth it?".

 

[ShrimpBrime]

The original poster just wants to do it. To work with his hands. I say go for it.

It's worth time to gain experience points. The accomplishment could be 10c temp drop. Maybe only 4c on average. It's something to do!

Delid? Lap it off. Nice course grit 200 to 400g. Heat is a little too invasive for most people, but it's not actually necessary. Lapping is a viable solution for delidding.

Don't tell anyone I said that. Delid tool companies might start to dislike me much.

 

[taka]

now if AMD would use this instead of current...

I cant see why to center the IO-DIE on the IHS since it's a 20W part, compared to CCX...

 

[BoggledBeagle]

Lap it off. Nice course grit 200 to 400g.

That is grinding, not lapping.

now if AMD would use this instead of current...

I wish you could see all the wiring under the chips, you cannot just move or rotate stuff at will. The possible chip positions are already determined by the connections placement on the chip.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

That is grinding, not lapping.


I wish you could see all the wiring under the chips, you cannot just move or rotate stuff at will.

I've delidded, grinded, lappeded, grinder wheel, torch, and everything in between IHS plates. Dozens and dozens of modifications.

Last one I lapped, ahem grinded, with my hand no less, on the garage floor. I know what I'm looking at.

Haha. Think I haven't been there and done something, well you'd guessed wrong! XD

Edit, forgot to mention razor blade the pcb in half.... roughly. Heh. It's in the trash, I didn't hold onto this one.

TPU exclusive. Never before seen elsewhere lol.

 

[dgianstefani]

No need to lap, just replace stock IHS with AM5 High Performance Heatspreader from TG.

Temps are good.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

No need to lap, just replace stock IHS with AM5 High Performance Heatspreader from TG. Temps are good.

Heatspreader and delidder from TG cost $125, that is 35% over the current price of 7700X ($350 at Newegg). Is that reasonable???

You also lose the warranty.

 

[dgianstefani]

Heatspreader and delidder from TG cost $125, that is 35% over the current price of 7700X ($350 at Newegg). Is that reasonable???

You also loose the warranty.

And you don't lose the warranty with lapping? You also don't need to use the delidder.

 

[Chrispy_]

Manual lapping evenly is easy as long as you take it steady and use marker pen to record progress to ensure you're balancing how much material you move from each side evenly.

It doesn't have to be perfectly level with the die unless you are aiming for <500 microns of IHS left. After all, the original IHS isn't even flat, how could it possibly be perfectly level - you've got adhesive to worry about with AM5 too, so IMO you should just avoid getting too thin - be happy with the benefits of removing a good fraction of the IHS and getting a mirror finish that will let you get away with near-zero, ultra-thin layer of paste/pad/LM.

 

[ChrisM255]

Heatspreader and delidder from TG cost $125, that is 35% over the current price of 7700X ($350 at Newegg). Is that reasonable???

Got my 7700x for $205 so that puts me right at MSRP! Hate to say it, but warranties already out the window...

 

[BoggledBeagle]

Got my 7700x for $205 so that puts me right at MSRP! Hate to say it, but warranties already out the window...

You mean HALF of the MSRP, did you get it used? It seems that you already saved some money for the High Performance Heatspreader from TG - it looks nice BTW.

 

[ChrisM255]

You mean HALF of the MSRP, did you get it used? It seems that you already saved some money for the High Performance Heatspreader from TG - it looks nice BTW.

Got the CPU and my motherboard from Microcenter open box. Motherboard (ROG STRIX b650e-e) was only $175! Their list price at the time was $350 and have seen it for $400+.
Motherboard had a couple of bent pins on the board connectors but was mint otherwise. I was patient and got really really lucky...
As long as they keep letting me inspect before purchasing, I don't mind open box.
Literally felt like I won the lottery walking out of there. Think the guy checking me out was pretty annoyed.

And you don't lose the warranty with lapping? You also don't need to use the delidder.

I am pretty sure this "BoggledBeagle" guy just goes around all the threads just warranty trolling for the lols
Every time I see him, he is saying "oh no, the warranty" in 100 different ways and for instance going onto a delidding/lapping thread and talking about warranty like any of us care about that here...
Gives the occasional tidbit of info, but that's about it. Mostly just trolling for reactions IMO.
Either that or he is genuine and just needs to learn to read the room, and is terrified of warranties!

 

[BoggledBeagle]

I realised it is almost 10 years since I played with any CPU (Ivy bridge i5 3570 - it got full treatment, deliding, liquid metal and lapping, temps improved by 20°C). Time flies ...

 

[ChrisM255]

I know it may be a waste of money in some respects, but the knowledge and experience I have gained over the years is priceless to me and so much fun! Has also help me in spades in my career and just helping others. Each time I do better and better with less mishaps along the way. Been quite a while since I have actually killed something, at least that I couldn't fix.

I realised it is almost 10 years since I played with any CPU (Ivy bridge i5 3570 - it got full treatment, deliding, liquid metal and lapping, temps improved by 20°C). Time flies ...

Also I see you say stuff like this occasionally and it just wins me back... confusing to see this after the warranty stuff, but if this is true I know part of you misses the adventures. Specially the triumphant victories!!! The only thing that I have found to rival this feeling for me is when my kids were born or tell me they love me and I can tell they are not just saying it to get something.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

No need to lap, just replace stock IHS with AM5 High Performance Heatspreader from TG.

Temps are good.
View attachment 330278

View attachment 330279

With honesty.
For X3D.

Is it actually worth it to "re-lid" a cpu that cannot be overclocked? I'd hope a temp reduction would bring frequency. 5.6ghz?

 

[dgianstefani]

With honesty.
For X3D.

Is it actually worth it to "re-lid" a cpu that cannot be overclocked? I'd hope a temp reduction would bring frequency. 5.6ghz?

BCLK OC and memory controller stability.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

BCLK OC and memory controller stability.

Thank you. Stability is important!
I really should build an AMD system again....

 

[BoggledBeagle]

Also I see you say stuff like this occasionally and it just wins me back... confusing to see this after the warranty stuff

Ivy Bridge was really frustrating after Sandy, because it had inside some horrible TIM after soldered Sandy and the temps were awfull. So it pushed even the less adventurous people like me to do something about it. I have a new Intel CPU now and at least in temps there is nothing wrong with it, it is easy to cool. So for no real reason I am not going to mess with it (for example lap it for 2°C difference). It was pretty expensive too and I am keeping the warranty...

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Ïvy Bridge was really frustrating after Sandy, because it had inside some horrible TIM after soldered Sandy and the temps were awfull. So it pushed even the less adventurous people like me to do something about it. I have a new Intel CPU now and at least in temps there is nothing wrong with it, it is easy to cool. So for no real reason I am not going to mess with it (for example lap it for 2°C difference). It was pretty expensive too and I am keeping the warranty...

You must exit the overclocking section of the forum.

If you changed any bios setting for that cpu other than the stock configuration, you've already voided the warranty. This includes enabling Extreme Memory Profiles because the board will increase cpu values beyond stock specifications.

But, you'd OC, lie to the manufacturer and have the cpu replaced anyways I'd be willing to bet....

____
But as an overclocker whom has used DryIce cooling on my 13700K processor.... multiple times, and bench the platform just about daily.

If the 13700K ever dies on me, I'd expect it. Was only a few hundred bucks, I'll just go get another one.

 

[Vya Domus]

For something like a 7700X just a better cooler should be all that's needed, a 360mm AIO will prevent it from hitting tjmax, with these 7000 series CPUs it really doesn't matter if they run at 70C instead of 80C.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

360 AIO can handle 300W, even more. 7700X produces max. 140W with PBO, you can cool that with a small air cooler!

 

[joemama]

1 vote for direct die cooling, lapping is not gonna go well without professional equipment

 

[Launcestonian]

Did you just lap the surface or take some height off?

I used this to guide me but didn't go overboard, just took off about mm. All the time, I was conscious of how my deepcool AK620 would mount without the factory screws & other fittings. Lucky I had a plethora of washers lying around, so could pick'n choose to make the HS fit snuggly.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

1 vote for direct die cooling, lapping is not gonna go well without professional equipment

I am afraid you are mixing lapping with machining. Lapping involves removing just very thin amount of material to ensure flattless and is pretty easy to do manually.

 

[Shou Miko]

Honestly I didn't bother with a X variant of the Ryzen 7 7700 that's why I took the non-x it's 65W it's easy to cool, I can use my Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black and if I need the performance I can just unlock it to a X variant.

Am I missing any performance? Not really if looking at tests

This was why I almost paid the same for the non-x version of my CPU and I didn't want to pay up for a 7800X3D at the time and I still don't for my 1440p gaming.