Windows 11 General Discussion

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Looks like this update breaks winpe

KB5016061: Secure Boot DB and DBX variable update events - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

KB5036210: Deploying Windows UEFI CA 2023 certificate to Secure Boot Allowed Signature Database (DB) - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

Updating Microsoft Secure Boot keys

Windows IT Pro Blog: Microsoft, in collaboration with our ecosystem partners, is preparing to roll out replacement certificates that’ll set new Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) Certificate Authorities (CAs) trust anchors in Secure Boot for the future. Look out for Secure Boot...

www.elevenforum.com

Windows Security update for Secure Boot - Knowledgebase 8.0 - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase

knowledgebase.macrium.com

 

[remixedcat]

Whoa, holup.

You saying, that the phenomena of everyone ignoring the glut of 8.1x64+ incompatible PCs
is actually being addressed?! -and by Google, of all companies?

How's proton integration, etc? I've got a Dual S940 build that I'd really like to have more than 4GB of RAM in (and use).

edit:
Oh, nvm. ChromeOS Flex, is an absolute non-starter
View attachment 335176
Guess, I'll just expect to bash my head on trying to get Holo OS (SteamOS 'universal') running, or some other flavor of x64 Linux.
I'd put Win11 x86 on there (w/ Optane Page File), if it existed.

Mint linux has been very stable and good. Proton works great in it as well!

Hi,
Some more goodies

Microsoft making sure you know why old unsupported CPU can't bypass Windows 11 requirements

The first Windows 11 24H2 Insider build was eventful as it brought many new features and improvements while also confirming a shift in CPU ISA support. The next one builds on top of it.

www.neowin.net

And google swooping in hehe


Also as I was saying there are now two cpu hurdles now
View attachment 334845

not everything prolly even uses that, as evidenced that the bypasses work and microsoft is just being dicks about this and going to make ppl throw away perfectly good computers over this. Not everyone even wants to run the "latest and greatest" and are content w what they have! Some can't afford it either with how high food prices are! These microsoft devs are out of touch extreme edition!

"IF IT AINT BROKE DON'T FIX IT!"

That's nice! I wish that was a permenant and deliberate change! The user should always be in control of they PC, and that includes updates.

THISTHISTHIS!!!

 

[Onasi]

not everything prolly even uses that, as evidenced that the bypasses work and microsoft is just being dicks about this and going to make ppl throw away perfectly good computers over this. Not everyone even wants to run the "latest and greatest" and are content w what they have! Some can't afford it either with how high food prices are! These microsoft devs are out of touch extreme edition!

To play devils advocate, the extreme adherence to backwards compat and supporting insanely outdated hardware has been a stone around Windows neck for quite a while now. The amount of bloat in the system that exists solely to facilitate it working on HW that just isn't modern by any metric is, frankly, insane. I imagine it prevents certain changes to the core of the OS to make it actually more performant, too. I am not surprised that MS is slowly, very slowly trying to break that chokehold. Hell, remember how long it took to finally drop the 32-bit version. And yes, I understand that a lot of this stems from the enterprise world who are often unbelievably stubborn about upgrading, but this still is something that should happen. I mean, again, just think about it - people are getting mad that an upcoming 2024 version of an, ostensibly, modern OS drops support for CPUs older than... 2006. Like... come on. It's been almost 20 years. Are we also supposed to be upset that Win 11 doesn't run on 486? This is getting ridiculous.

 

[remixedcat]

To play devils advocate, the extreme adherence to backwards compat and supporting insanely outdated hardware has been a stone around Windows neck for quite a while now. The amount of bloat in the system that exists solely to facilitate it working on HW that just isn't modern by any metric is, frankly, insane. I imagine it prevents certain changes to the core of the OS to make it actually more performant, too. I am not surprised that MS is slowly, very slowly trying to break that chokehold. Hell, remember how long it took to finally drop the 32-bit version. And yes, I understand that a lot of this stems from the enterprise world who are often unbelievably stubborn about upgrading, but this still is something that should happen. I mean, again, just think about it - people are getting mad that an upcoming 2024 version of an, ostensibly, modern OS drops support for CPUs older than... 2006. Like... come on. It's been almost 20 years. Are we also supposed to be upset that Win 11 doesn't run on 486? This is getting ridiculous.

they should cut all that telemetry bloat and other things that bloat the os then if they are sooooo concerned about bloat.... also all this ai bloatware and "asisstants" and bloaty floaty UI needs cut too if they wanna go that route.. Linux can have legacy support and it's much faster and leaner

 

[Onasi]

they should cut all that telemetry bloat and other things that bloat the os then if they are sooooo concerned about bloat.... also all this ai bloatware and "asisstants" and bloaty floaty UI needs cut too if they wanna go that route.. Linux can have legacy support and it's much faster and leaner

You are comparing apples and oranges here. All the "bloat" you are talking about is the software utility layer of the OS. They can, indeed, cut it, sure, but that would be bad for business. What I am talking about is the core of the OS itself and is completely different. It also, likely, has a much bigger impact overall then the software layer.
And comparisons to Linux are meaningless. They have a vastly different architectures and, arguably, not even competing for the same market. Desktop Linux is a meme and will continue to be a meme until the insane distro fragmentation is dealt with. Which will be never, seems like, as the FOSS community is obsessed with the current model, even if it prevents the OS from gaining any actual market share in the consumer market.

 

[theFOoL]

Like HERE if I could somehow remove this that'd be cool but if not I'll yet for a modded ISO

 

[Onasi]

Like HERE if I could somehow remove this that'd be cool but if not I'll yet for a modded ISO

I am not sure that REMOVING the kernel drivers and files is a good idea in any universe. Like, no, you can't remove ntoskrnl.exe.

 

[remixedcat]

You are comparing apples and oranges here. All the "bloat" you are talking about is the software utility layer of the OS. They can, indeed, cut it, sure, but that would be bad for business. What I am talking about is the core of the OS itself and is completely different. It also, likely, has a much bigger impact overall then the software layer.
And comparisons to Linux are meaningless. They have a vastly different architectures and, arguably, not even competing for the same market. Desktop Linux is a meme and will continue to be a meme until the insane distro fragmentation is dealt with. Which will be never, seems like, as the FOSS community is obsessed with the current model, even if it prevents the OS from gaining any actual market share in the consumer market.

if it's "just a meme" than why is valve putting so much behind it then? And it performs way better with the same hardware and tons of professionals switching to it!


Also way lower latency for music production and Bitwig studio works much better on this same system on Linux than windows 11. windows 11... pops and crackles and has tons of latency for most synth patches on here.... Linux... I can even make the same synth patch more complex and it has very low latency and very smooth. Bitwig was made by ex-ableton devs and they had linux support very early on and it's literally the most advanced music production software ever made! You can literally build your own synths from scratch in it! The linux performance is much better than the same DAW in windows.

 

[Onasi]

if it's "just a meme" than why is valve putting so much behind it then? And it performs way better with the same hardware and tons of professionals switching to it!

Because it suits their needs as a light OS for a handheld gaming PC. That's literally it. The deck is not a general purpose device, even if it CAN be in a pinch. They tried building the Steam OS as a desktop contender. It didn't take off.
And, uh, citation needed about "tons" of pros switching? I know quite a lot of people in 3D modeling, pre-print production, graphical design, CAD and video production. Exactly not a single one is running Linux. An extreme minority is on MacOS. Everyone else is on Win 10 or 11. If "tons" were switching, surely the OS share would be higher than sub-2% on Steam HWS and sub-4% on desktop stats on Statcounter Global?

 

[ThrashZone]

What version do you recommend? Or are you hinting with the highlight?
EDIT: I'm not seeing that version in that linked list...
EDIT2: Found it on FileHorse.

Hi,
Looks like this update breaks winpe

KB5016061: Secure Boot DB and DBX variable update events - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

KB5036210: Deploying Windows UEFI CA 2023 certificate to Secure Boot Allowed Signature Database (DB) - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

Updating Microsoft Secure Boot keys

Windows IT Pro Blog: Microsoft, in collaboration with our ecosystem partners, is preparing to roll out replacement certificates that’ll set new Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) Certificate Authorities (CAs) trust anchors in Secure Boot for the future. Look out for Secure Boot...

www.elevenforum.com

Windows Security update for Secure Boot - Knowledgebase 8.0 - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase

knowledgebase.macrium.com

Looks we're getting squeezed out of the older version of winpe recovery flash media create/ recovery use I was loving on earlier

After these MS updates above they don't look like they will boot anymore so newest winpe version only will and it's only a 30 day trialware which after that it turns into restore only mode lol

No telling if the winpe recovery flash media will be effected or if it only effects doing system images in the OS is effected ?
Recovery flash winpe media is different I'd hope.

 

[windwhirl]

they should cut all that telemetry bloat and other things that bloat the os then if they are sooooo concerned about bloat.... also all this ai bloatware and "asisstants" and bloaty floaty UI needs cut too if they wanna go that route.. Linux can have legacy support and it's much faster and leaner

The telemetry is fairly light and it's the way Microsoft learns which features are used by the masses and which ones are not. Information that Microsoft needs to decide if going forward they are gonna keep something around or not. You can complain that it's a privacy invasion and all that, which is understandable, but if you're complaining about a noticeable performance impact over the telemetry (and I mean noticeable to the naked eye without even bothering to pay attention to it, not comparisons made with benchmark tools), then the system is just too old for anything that'd demand you to use Windows 11.

These microsoft devs are out of touch extreme edition!

See this comment:

All Intel Core ix processors support POPCNT, alongside all Celeron/Pentium processors built on Sandy Bridge or later and Atoms and the like from 2013 or so.
And all AMD CPUs since K10 and Bulldozer era support it

The oldest processors that have POPCNT support are all at least ten years old. If not over 15 years old by now. It's a fairly well supported extension. And besides, Microsoft has stated before that they only support whatever is in their compatibility list. Core 2 processors and other similarly old or older CPUs are not on that list and have never been on that list. Yes, there are workarounds, but Microsoft has never supported such old processors in Windows 11 and has never made any promises to keep the OS working correctly on those old systems.

It's reasonable from Microsoft to start using it everywhere they can on their latest OS... For what it's worth, I'd not approve the same if this were done retroactively to Windows 10 tho. Specially for LTSC variants which are supposed to get only security updates.

Speaking of older versions, and provided Microsoft doesn't decide to also suddenly require POPCNT in the currently GA versions of Windows (24H2 isn't supposed to arrive to the masses until probably August or September of this year at the earliest, so it's not GA yet), Windows 11 23H2 will keep receiving updates until November 2025, so you could stick to 23H2 until then. There's a extended support period afterwards, but if you can pay for that then you'd likely be able to afford the hardware change as well.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The telemetry is fairly light and it's the way Microsoft learns which features are used by the masses and which ones are not. Information that Microsoft needs to decide if going forward they are gonna keep something around or not.

Some people are ok with that kind of thing. Many are not.

For those of us who are not, we don't care what the reasons are, it's unacceptable.

 

[kony]

Microsoft says no older than ~5 yo hardware is supported.

People find (very easy) workarounds.

Update breaks support for 20 yo CPUs

Some people are angry "how could MS do this?!"

Seriously, why do you believe that anything out of specifications should be supported by MS? If they break Intel's 6th gen support I won't have anything against it and neither should you, they clearly stated they support only since 7/8th gen.

On older machines I just keep Windows 10/Linux and if you care about reliability so should you. If a company says their product is not supported on your specs, then why would you use a workaround to run it despite that, then get upset if it breaks? It's essentially a ticking bomb, sooner or later something is at least somewhat likely to break.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
This will make life easier kill updates for 20years reg file lol
Still will reset after manually checking for updates though so reapply reg ezpz

Disable Automatic Windows Updates in Windows 11 Tutorial

This tutorial will show you how to disable Windows Update from automatically downloading and installing updates in Windows 10 and Windows 11. Windows Update keeps Windows 11 updated by automatically downloading and installing the latest updates, drivers, and hotfixes released by Microsoft...

www.elevenforum.com

For good measure

Enable or Disable Automatic Maintenance in Windows 11 Tutorial

This tutorial will show you how to enable or disable Automatic Maintenance in Windows 10 and Windows 11. Windows automatically runs scheduled maintenance on a daily schedule when you're not using your computer by default. This includes tasks such as updates, security scanning, and system...

www.elevenforum.com

The telemetry is fairly light and it's the way Microsoft learns which features are used by the masses and which ones are not. Information that Microsoft needs to decide if going forward they are gonna keep something around or not. You can complain that it's a privacy invasion and all that, which is understandable, but if you're complaining about a noticeable performance impact over the telemetry (and I mean noticeable to the naked eye without even bothering to pay attention to it, not comparisons made with benchmark tools), then the system is just too old for anything that'd demand you to use Windows 11.

You're sounding more and more like you're a ms rep lol

Hell I get it now you're reading off MS AI scripts

 

[lexluthermiester]

Seriously, why do you believe that anything out of specifications should be supported by MS?

Yes. That is the direct meaning of "backward compatibility". The goons at microsoft have shifted their business model & game plan and they expect us to shift with them without so much as a whoopsie-daisy. Screw them, the horse they rode in on and any who agrees with them. Backward compatibility is not the end of the world and it's not very difficult IF PROPER PLANNING is done. This is about user rights, control and respect. They want to deny us our rights, have as complete control as possible and do it in a way that shows us no respect. They want these things NOT because of security, but because of time, money and effort. They don't want to spent the time & effort doing things the right way because it costs money. It's all about money and control. So again, screw microsoft's business model.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
If MS didn't bloat a system up with all this crapware nobody asks for even a potato could run windows 11-12...
But no AI... will do everything now except make your internet speed faster and more affordable.

 

[remixedcat]

Yes. That is the direct meaning of "backward compatibility". The goons at microsoft have shifted their business model & game plan and they expect us to shift with them without so much as a whoopsie-daisy. Screw them, the horse they rode in on and any who agrees with them. Backward compatibility is not the end of the world and it's not very difficult IF PROPER PLANNING is done. This is about user rights, control and respect. They want to deny us our rights, have as complete control as possible and do it in a way that shows us no respect. They want these things NOT because of security, but because of time, money and effort. They don't want to spent the time & effort doing things the right way because it cost money. It's all about money and control. So again, screw microsoft's business model.

very. much. this!

and all these companies don't want us to own anything.

 

[lexluthermiester]

If MS didn't bloat a system up with all this crapware nobody asks for even a potato could run windows 11-12...

Exactly!

and all these companies don't want us to own anything.

There's that too.

 

[ThrashZone]

very. much. this!

and all these companies don't want us to own anything.

Hi,
Yep just want to rent everything
Everything is being made as cheaply as possible a lot really isn't worth buying
Pretty much why cellphones are more popular than pc's now days plus you see more cell contracts with device upgrades every year or two included.

 

[remixedcat]

Hi,
Yep just want to rent everything
Everything is being made as cheaply as possible a lot really isn't worth buying
Pretty much why cellphones are more popular than pc's now days plus you see more cell contracts with device upgrades every year or two included.

it's sad really... all this ewaste too that's bad for the environment as well...

 

[theFOoL]

Within the group policy I changed some update settings enabled certain ones that aren't to be enabled but I did so we'll see on WIN11ETUSB GO "ET = Enterprise" ofc it didn't work on USB lol but trying on my SSD but I guess it'll bring up the check stuff Nope LoL Oh well until a workaround

 

[windwhirl]

You're sounding more and more like you're a ms rep lol

Hell I get it now you're reading off MS AI scripts

I mean, you guys are running Windows 11 on systems not officially supported, so don't complain if it suddenly breaks, it's bound to happen /shrugs
Hell, get your hands dirty and make your own workarounds.

Other than that, if you think you're leading some sort of holy crusade by running Windows 11 in a system that's not officially supported, that's just plain silly.

At the end of the day, power users, privacy-focused users, "vintage systems" users, we're all a minority in Microsoft's point of view.

And power users make a blip in the radar mostly because of enterprise and business users. Definitely not because of "consumer" users.

 

[theFOoL]

Hmm seems someone is creating a emulator of popcnt (I was searching github) but none are ready *yet

 

[lexluthermiester]

Hmm seems someone is creating a emulator of popcnt (I was searching github) but none are ready *yet

That is crazy. I wonder how that would work..

 

[theFOoL]

That is crazy. I wonder how that would work..

That'd probably add it with a auto script upon the first install which is possible I assume