How to quickly & easily fix coil-whine(coil choke noise)

[lexluthermiester]

True but then lots of theories, widely accepted as fact, have not been proven. The Big Bang Theory being one of them.

General & Special Relativity being another. That's why they're still called " The Theory of Relativity" instead of being called a law.

However, this is the wrong forum, it being super glue and all.

True, we now return everyone to the regularly scheduled discussion.

 

[eidairaman1]

General & Special Relativity being another. That's why they're still called " The Theory of Relativity" instead of being called a law.


True, we now return everyone to the regularly scheduled discussion.

Here is a good video of this happening in a Transformer which is 2 induction coils air gapped to either reduce voltage and increase current or vice versa.

Only if ding dongs would understand this, then they can fix their issue.

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[Bill_Bright]

I've used Loctite on nuts and bolts for decades. It works great in scenarios where vibrations are common and you don't want the nut to work loose. I never thought of using Loctite on transformers or coils but that makes perfect sense. For those wondering, Loctite "green" is designed and designated specifically as "wicking grade" as seen in this chart:



Nice find, eidairaman1!

 

[eidairaman1]

I've used Loctite on nuts and bolts for decades. It works great in scenarios where vibrations are common and you don't want the nut to work loose. I never thought of using Loctite on transformers or coils but that makes perfect sense. For those wondering, Loctite "green" is designed and designated specifically as "wicking grade" as seen in this chart:

View attachment 354254

Nice find, eidairaman1!

That guy is a "turbo kid" and he is friggin hilarious

 

[Yougotonejob]

I have some new discovery. For my case I start from a noisy AMD 580 GPU and once that out of warranty I replace the fan and fan case by Noctua fans.
That solve the fan noise issue, then I start to have coil whine. (Then I try glue of course, helped but not solved)
Later I find out because of lacking the fan case the back plate is not using all the screw wholes. Then that will lead to more vibration. Related to this the noise will transfer to the entire of the PCB and start to make the weakest point start to vibrate too.
This will also explain why so many Coil whine when people switch to water blocks and other DIY cooling solution.
I added a nut ( to pretend the fan case was there) and washer and using a different screw to lock my back plate and PCB together. Now there is all the screw is populated, the noise level is down so much.
I already glue the coil to the PCB, and how I locked PCB to backing plate. This will make the effective of lower the frequency it generate. This might just push some of the high frequency to the lower spot and make me less noticeable about them.
This related to some reading now about how to build a home studio, the key take away from reading all the building sound proof is mass in walls is important sound will vibrate harder to move the mass. absorption is not as important as mass and isolation.
I guess if I could make my back plate even thicker and heavier. And how to isolate might be the next direction to try?

 

[Bill_Bright]

lacking the fan case the back plate is not using all the screw wholes. Then that will lead to more vibration.

Sorry but no - you are barking up the wrong tree.

That has absolutely nothing to do with coil whine. Frankly, it suggests to me a cheap or failing fan because a decent fan in good condition should not vibrate like that.

This will also explain why so many Coil whine when people switch to water blocks and other DIY cooling solution.

No it doesn't. Switching to water blocks and other cooling solutions has absolutely nothing to coil with coil whine.

 

[Yougotonejob]

Sorry but no - you are barking up the wrong tree.

That has absolutely nothing to do with coil whine. Frankly, it suggests to me a cheap or failing fan because a decent fan in good condition should not vibrate like that.


No it doesn't. Switching to water blocks and other cooling solutions has absolutely nothing to coil with coil whine.

I'm not gonna argue with you, I think you not 100% get what I mean.
I never say the fan is doing vibration.
I am saying the PCB will do a tiny tiny vibration less then 1 pico meters, and this effect is verified by Nvidia engineer. Once the PCB is starting to vibrate, all sort of issues including noise come with coil whine will get even worse.
Nvidia has a lab using laser to get this conclusion. I am just saying it's a newer discovery for me also try to share to all of you might also sick tired of this noise.
This is my point. Hope you can get it by now.

 

[Shrek]

I am saying the PCB will do a tiny tiny vibration less then 1 pico meters

Wow, that's about 1% the size of an atom.

 

[Athlonite]

I am saying the PCB will do a tiny tiny vibration less then 1 pico meters

the only way you're going to hear that is either with specialized equipment or you have bionic ears as anything vibrating at a picometer is not going to be loud enough to hear over anything else in your PC

 

[lexluthermiester]

Wow, that's about 1% the size of an atom.

You're thinking of Femtometers.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I'm not gonna argue with you, I think you not 100% get what I mean.
I never say the fan is doing vibration.
I am saying the PCB will do a tiny tiny vibration less then 1 pico meters

Sorry, you can argue all you want, but it is you who doesn't understand.

"Coil" whine comes from inductor coils (often called just inductors or chokes). Not PCBs. Not fans (or fan backplates or fan cases). Not capacitors. Not spoiled brats. "Coil" whine comes from inductor "coils" only. If a transformer whines (or buzzes), that is called "transformer" whine (or buzz). If fan bearings are making a noise, that is called "fan" noise.

Now for sure, if a PCB, fan, capacitor, or some other component is vibrating and creating an audible and unwanted noise, that would be just as objectionable (for me, anyway) as coil whine. But it is NOT coil whine unless the noise is being generated by a coil.

And I note, the topic of this thread is "coil" whine, not other types of whines or noises.

 

[ad1]

Sorry, you can argue all you want, but it is you who doesn't understand.

"Coil" whine comes from inductor coils (often called just inductors or chokes). Not PCBs. Not fans (or fan backplates or fan cases). Not capacitors. Not spoiled brats. "Coil" whine comes from inductor "coils" only. If a transformer whines (or buzzes), that is called "transformer" whine (or buzz). If fan bearings are making a noise, that is called "fan" noise.

Now for sure, if a PCB, fan, capacitor, or some other component is vibrating and creating an audible and unwanted noise, that would be just as objectionable (for me, anyway) as coil whine. But it is NOT coil whine unless the noise is being generated by a coil.

And I note, the topic of this thread is "coil" whine, not other types of whines or noises.

Here is an interesting video which briefly goes into coil whine at 3:10.

This thread is about coil whine originating from inductors, but the characteristics of the noise can depend on other things, including vibration of the PCB and other components on it. He mentions that in that case, the inductors are causing the noise, but the peak vibration is not actually where the inductors are. "Sometimes it's the whole PCB moving that causes the noise"

 

[Bill_Bright]

Sorry, but I am not going to watch a 38 minute video that verifies what I said. "Coil" whine comes from coils. Other types of noises come from other devices.

 

[dirtyferret]

I am not going to watch a 38 minute video that verifies what I said. "Coil" whine comes from coils.

so you are saying you won't watch my 40 minute documentary on who is buried in Grant's tomb?

 

[Bill_Bright]

I'm still trying to figure out what color is his gray horse!

 

[ad1]

Sorry, but I am not going to watch a 38 minute video that verifies what I said. "Coil" whine comes from coils. Other types of noises come from other devices.

The part about coil whine is at minute 3:10 in the video and only a couple of minutes long. You don't have to watch a 38 minute video. I even posted the link to that position in the video.

Obviously you don't have to watch the video since you already know better than an Nvidia engineer with a laser interferometer, but maybe others will find this information useful.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Obviously you don't have to watch the video since you already know better than an Nvidia engineer with a laser interferometer

LOL

No, I am not claiming that. What I am saying is that is not the point.

It seems there is a misunderstanding between the difference in the meanings of "vibration" and "noise".

If a dog sneaks up and scares the cat which then screams, do you call it dog noise?

If the muffler on your car is not securely mounted, and the vibrating engine causes the muffler to rattle, do you call that engine noise?

I watched the couple minutes you pointed out and all he is saying is vibrations may not cause "noise" that originates from the source of the vibration (watch around 4:45 for about 15 seconds)

Coils vibrate. That is a given and not in dispute. But a vibrating coil does NOT automatically suggest the coil is generating the noise or whine. A vibrating coil that is causing something else to rattle and make noise (like the PCB 3 inches away) is NOT "coil whine". That is a PCB rattling and making noise.

Coil whine is a noise that comes directly from the coil. If the vibrating coil is causing the loose layers of the PCB to rattle, that is PCB noise, not coil whine. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Shrek]

Here is an interesting video which briefly goes into coil whine at 3:10.

This thread is about coil whine originating from inductors, but the characteristics of the noise can depend on other things, including vibration of the PCB and other components on it. He mentions that in that case, the inductors are causing the noise, but the peak vibration is not actually where the inductors are. "Sometimes it's the whole PCB moving that causes the noise"

It really is picometers (1/100th atomic size)

I am saying the PCB will do a tiny tiny vibration less then 1 pico meters, and this effect is verified by Nvidia engineer.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Here is an interesting video which briefly goes into coil whine at 3:10.

This thread is about coil whine originating from inductors, but the characteristics of the noise can depend on other things, including vibration of the PCB and other components on it. He mentions that in that case, the inductors are causing the noise, but the peak vibration is not actually where the inductors are. "Sometimes it's the whole PCB moving that causes the noise"

The part about coil whine is at minute 3:10 in the video and only a couple of minutes long. You don't have to watch a 38 minute video. I even posted the link to that position in the video.

No one is saying that noise can't be caused by other components on a given part, what we're saying is that coil-whine is caused by coils. Those vibrations can naturally transfer kinetic energy to surrounding areas of the PCB. However, the solution is the same, glue down and fill gaps in the empty spaces and the coil vibrations will be eliminated or greatly reduced, thus removing or reducing the kinetic transfer of noise to other parts of the PCB.

 

[ad1]

Coils vibrate. That is a given and not in dispute. But a vibrating coil does NOT automatically suggest the coil is generating the noise or whine. A vibrating coil that is causing something else to rattle and make noise (like the PCB 3 inches away) is NOT "coil whine". That is a PCB rattling and making noise.

Coil whine is a noise that comes directly from the coil. If the vibrating coil is causing the loose layers of the PCB to rattle, that is PCB noise, not coil whine. That's all I'm saying.

Makes sense, I don't disagree with you. Only thing is, I'd argue that the average user hearing their GPU's high pitch buzzing which changes in frequency as the image on the screen changes will probably refer to that as coil whine, even though the sound might be coming from other areas of the board. And yes, reducing vibrations in the inductors is likely to eliminate the noise, even if the noise didn't come from the inductors themselves.

My 4090 Surpim X is so loud that I had to put it in a solid sound proofed case with an external radiator, 2m away from my seating position and behind a wall. Who knows if the sound is coming directly from inductors or from other resonating components, but I'll just call it coil whine and try to glue the inductors down when the warranty runs out. The only way to know if it's actual coil whine or not is with specialized equipment which I don't have (and clearly MSI doesn't either or just doesn't care), so I'll just call it coil whine.

 

[lexluthermiester]

even if the noise didn't come from the inductors themselves.

The vibrations are absolutely coming from the coils. To say otherwise is both ignorant and silly.

 

[ad1]

The vibrations are absolutely coming from the coils. To say otherwise is both ignorant and silly.

Indeed they are, I would never say otherwise. It's just that if the annoying buzzing noise caused by these vibrations is actually emitted from the PCB, it seems I'm not allowed to call it coil whine anymore Sorry for derailing your thread, the main point still stands - reduce vibrations in the coils to reduce noise, regardless which component makes the loudest noise. And if what Yougotonejob wrote is true, changing how much the PCB is allowed to flex can also have an impact on the noise.

Actually, when I had my original cooler on the card, I could even hear some fins buzzing with the fans off, this whole card is a vibrating buzzing mess.

 

[lexluthermiester]

It's just that if the annoying buzzing noise caused by these vibrations is actually emitted from the PCB

That might be possible, but the primary source of the sound is the coils themselves vibrating against themselves and the housing they're mounted in(if any). PCB resonance is only a factor IF the vibrations are strong enough.

it seems I'm not allowed to call it coil whine anymore

Coil Whine is so named because it's the choke coils vibrating at a volume and frequency that "sounds" like whining. PCB resonance is it's own thing, even if being caused by choke-coil vibrations. Dampen those vibrations and the PCB resonance goes away.

Sorry for derailing your thread

No at all, this was on-topic as it's related to the primary discussion.

the main point still stands - reduce vibrations in the coils to reduce noise, regardless which component makes the loudest noise.

Exactly.

 

[Klemc]

Could the Arctic Freezer III, that, compared to II i'd call verry noisy, have coil whine ?.. or is it by design ?

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[Bill_Bright]

Makes sense, I don't disagree with you. Only thing is, I'd argue that the average user hearing their GPU's high pitch buzzing which changes in frequency as the image on the screen changes will probably refer to that as coil whine, even though the sound might be coming from other areas of the board.

Argue with whom? I am not, and have never said or implied the term is not often misused. You are still missing the point.

If you visit a petting zoo and your kid calls the animal she is petting a "goat" when it is really a "sheep", do you let her continue to believe it is a "goat"? Of course not. You "teach" your child the difference between goats and sheep.

If you visit the doctor to complain you have the measles, and the doctor tells you it is chicken pox, are you going to keep saying you have the measles?

It is our job as advisors to educate the OPs and future readers and correct such misconceptions instead of simply perpetuating the falsehood by continuing to call it something it is not.

This is a technical forum. We need to be technically correct in our terminology just to help prevent and avoid these misunderstandings.

it seems I'm not allowed to call it coil whine anymore

Not when it is not!

The vibrations are absolutely coming from the coils. To say otherwise is both ignorant and silly.

If originating on a graphics card or motherboard, I totally agree. HOWEVER, if the noise is coming from the power supply, it could be loose transformer plates buzzing. Or perhaps capacitors singing.

I suppose it is possible capacitors on graphics cards or motherboards could "sing" but I have never encountered it. I suspect that is because the DC voltages are just too low on those components.

And if what Yougotonejob wrote is true, changing how much the PCB is allowed to flex can also have an impact on the noise.

He never said that. Again, correct terminology prevents misunderstandings. There is a HUGE difference between "flex" and "vibrate". "Flex" suggest something is bending or twisting. "Torque" forces are involved introducing a entire new set of parameters - none of which are good. No PCB, including graphics cards or motherboards should be subjected to any sort of flexing forces.

Flexing should be avoided at all costs. This is exactly why it is critical standoffsbe the same height. It is why graphics cards mounting screws need to be secure to avoid sagging graphics cards. It is why computer cases need to be "true" (90° bends be exactly 90°) to avoid wobbles and unwanted twisting torque forces on motherboard mounting points.

Again, this is a technical forum. Terminology should be technically correct.

Could the Arctic Freezer III... ...have coil whine ?

Are there any inductor coils in it? If not, then no.

But there are motors and motors have bearings and bearing can make noise. And that is called bearing noise.