Help me pick an mATX b650 board for 7800X3D

[#22]

Ive found the Fractal Define to become a pretty hot case with the newer GPUs. Even the pretty easy GTX1080 would turn warmer than you would see in more open cases. The enclosure now is smaller, but it IS high airflow optimized, its a mesh case all around. If I run the 7900XT in my Define, I need to limit it quite a bit to keep it away from 100C hotspot. And hot components also mean higher fan speeds.

I hear you though. But its always a trade off and the current set of components I have/will get arent notoriously noisy; the 7900XT PG's fan noise is a very constant one too and really not that loud overall. I hear my system anyway, but its a world of difference from say 8-10 years ago. Its mostly air you hear getting moved, and you get that silenced case or not.

~500W starts gymnastics with balancing cooling and noise of sound-dampened cases to get the most of both. I obviously mean good and bigger ones like regular Define models, so not typical hotboxes with some sound-dampening material glued. Hard to predict how small Lian Li would compare, but honestly I would suspect it even filled with fans giving similar temps.

With your secound thought, sound-dampened cases are more (than lowering volume of noise) about hiding noises like coil whine and making computer sound nicer, less intrusive as a whole. Airflow cases don't do it, only expose anything and from what I personally noticed are especially prone to all kinds of anomalies like fan resonances (this irregular woowoo) or vibrations. Not counting being PITA with dust. I personally and literally hate airflow cases, but you will see for yourself, maybe get better impressions and I suspect you having some return window for purchased stuff, so there's no risk here

 

[Vayra86]

~500W starts gymnastics with balancing cooling and noise of sound-dampened cases to get the most of both. I obviously mean good and bigger ones like regular Define models, so not typical hotboxes with some sound-dampening material glued. Hard to predict how small Lian Li would compare, but honestly I would suspect it even filled with fans giving similar temps.

With your secound thought, sound-dampened cases are more (than lowering volume of noise) about hiding noises like coil whine and making computer sound nicer, less intrusive as a whole. Airflow cases don't do it, only expose anything and from what I personally noticed are especially prone to all kinds of anomalies like fan resonances (this irregular woowoo) or vibrations. Not counting being PITA with dust. I personally and literally hate airflow cases, but you will see for yourself, maybe get better impressions and I suspect you having some return window for purchased stuff, so there's no risk here

Im strongly considering to get heavy positive pressure from the triple 120mm bottom intake which has a dust filter and getting my outtake mostly from the peerless assassin backed by a single rear 120mm and then see how it goes. The 7900XT does about 260-290W with my current system/gpu settings, adding another 60-70w from the CPU puts me at 350W give or take. Adding the rest totals for 400W worst case. 500W isnt going to happen here.

Another tweak I can build in is just buying filter material for the entire side and top of the case stuck to the mesh. And yet another is adding fans to the top. I mostly view it as a neat experiment to see how much power I can cram in there.

As for coil whine, currently I have zero neither from the psu or the gpu and those are both moving over.

 

[Sunny and 75]

I already have a 7900XT. Thats the main reason to upgrade from the 8700K, its really holding the card back especially in the games I play most (strategy, 4X, build sims and even recent shooters).

Thanks a lot everyone for the great input. I think Im set Will update the topic in a few weeks with the results!

The shopping list
View attachment 356349

Yep, all good, I'd swap that Corsair kit for a G.Skill one but that's me.

 

[#22]

Im strongly considering to get heavy positive pressure from the triple 120mm bottom intake which has a dust filter and getting my outtake mostly from the peerless assassin backed by a single rear 120mm and then see how it goes. The 7900XT does about 260-290W with my current system/gpu settings, adding another 60-70w from the CPU puts me at 350W give or take. Adding the rest totals for 400W worst case. 500W isnt going to happen here.

Another tweak I can build in is just buying filter material for the entire side and top of the case stuck to the mesh. And yet another is adding fans to the top. I mostly view it as a neat experiment to see how much power I can cram in there.

As for coil whine, currently I have zero neither from the psu or the gpu and those are both moving over.

Will you have space for bottom fans? Maybe there're some reviews/youtubers experimenting with airflow in this case, but my bet and take would be using your three fans all as exhaust - two on the top and one on the rear. Fully negative pressure, so dust, but combining light, portable case with air duster gives frequent, but non PITA and few secound maintenance.

With filters check if Lian Li doesn't sell some dedicated to your case or there aren't some cheap such ones on Ali.

With coil whine you was lucky. E.g. my card is awful to the point I'm sad for next owner finding it out, like I can't imagine somebody living with that, but on the other hand it may always originate from combo of my own components, not card itself. But I don't hear it whining and only thanks to Define 7's sound-deadening. It's like I need to put my ear to the case to hear this coil whine, but fast removal of solid top panel and whining gets easily the loudest element of whole setup. You pay attention to new mobo, because they also happen to whine.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Im strongly considering to get heavy positive pressure from the triple 120mm bottom intake which has a dust filter and getting my outtake mostly from the peerless assassin backed by a single rear 120mm and then see how it goes. The 7900XT does about 260-290W with my current system/gpu settings, adding another 60-70w from the CPU puts me at 350W give or take. Adding the rest totals for 400W worst case. 500W isnt going to happen here.

Another tweak I can build in is just buying filter material for the entire side and top of the case stuck to the mesh. And yet another is adding fans to the top. I mostly view it as a neat experiment to see how much power I can cram in there.

As for coil whine, currently I have zero neither from the psu or the gpu and those are both moving over.

IF you can fit 3 T30 or 3 of those new Silent wing 4 pro you'll be fine..... I've put 4090s in cases not much larger than that as long as you have decent fans and your ambient isn't shite you'll be golden. If you don't care about noise you can probably use any fans and crank them honestly.

Will your temps be higher than a mid tower sure but will they actually effect performance or longevity, doubtful.

 

[Vayra86]

IF you can fit 3 T30 or 3 of those new Silent wing 4 pro you'll be fine..... I've put 4090s in cases not much larger than that as long as you have decent fans and your ambient isn't shite you'll be golden. If you don't care about noise you can probably use any fans and crank them honestly.

Will your temps be higher than a mid tower sure but will they actually effect performance or longevity, doubtful.

Hm! Those T30s would be these? They are def gonna fit, the 7900XT is just 2,5 ish slots high

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Hm! Those T30s would be these? They are def gonna fit, the 7900XT is just 2,5 ish slots high

View attachment 356410

Yep, awesome fans push a ton of air, decently quiet, link together like shown, and have 3 separate rpm modes 1000-2000-3000rpm

 

[tabascosauz]

@Vayra86 T30s are excellent at getting air through restriction. And possibly not the absolute quietest, but by far some of the most well-behaved fans with impeccable bearings so you know you aren't getting noise/adverse characteristics from things like wobbling.

I've seen people report up to like 80C SPD Hub temp for their DDR5 in SFF builds with poorly thought out airflow. I'm sure yours won't be nearly so bad. Even if you decide to put some effort into optimizing your timings properly, don't go super aggressive on tRFC or venture beyond 50000 tREFI and you'll be just fine.

Don't neglect exhaust. It really is just as important as intake in SFF. If you aren't keen on putting a crazy amount of work into optimizing airflow (including deshroud), then good intake in the front/bottom and some exhaust on the rear and top will work fine for a ~300W GPU.

 

[Sunny and 75]

frankly Im a bit lost in the woods.

If you're not in a hurry and it's possible for you, I'd say wait for B850 boards to become available in September/Q4 (in just 2 months time). Get a MAG B850M MORTAR WIFI then.

If you have to assemble the system RN, the B650 board will do the job.

I mentioned B850 because your current board (K6 Z370) dates back to 2017 so you've been using that for like 7 years. If you keep your MBs for 7 years, then a B850 board serves you better (new Audio chip, faster WIFI/LAN speeds, faster and more I/O ports, and the like).

 

[Lost_Troll]

Im strongly considering to get heavy positive pressure from the triple 120mm bottom intake which has a dust filter and getting my outtake mostly from the peerless assassin backed by a single rear 120mm and then see how it goes. The 7900XT does about 260-290W with my current system/gpu settings, adding another 60-70w from the CPU puts me at 350W give or take. Adding the rest totals for 400W worst case. 500W isnt going to happen here.

Follow Lan-Li's recommended fan positions that is shown in the user manual and on their website. Their recommendation is that you mount 3 exhaust fans top and one exhaust on the back whether it be with an air cooler or AIO. Also, as an option, you can add one fan on the side as an intake when you are cool. I followed that and get grate temps in a room with 27C ambient temp, and after 3 hours of solid gaming, my 7900XT temps are under 90C (Hotspot, Memory Junction) with the driver set to the quite mode. They get even lower with it set to balanced, but the card becomes noisier. When I run it in rage mode, the card becomes somewhat loud, but the temps are actually lower thein the other two settings.

 

[AusWolf]

Key points for board choice;
- Good audio chip. How OK is the ALC897 vs the ALC1200? I also want an optical out.

My board has the 897, so I don't know the difference.

- How big do I need to go VRM wise?

For the X3D? Not at all. It eats 80-ish W in all-core loads. I would still get a board with some VRM cooling, just in case.

- What RAM pairs well at 6000MT/s. Currently eyeing this set

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It should be fine, imo. X3D isn't sensitive to RAM speed.

- Solid storage capabilities though those seem pretty similar across most boards in the sub 200 EUR range.

Yep.

- Im also considering to put a Honeywell PTM thermal pad on this CPU instead of paste. Also, any other do's or donts? Enlighten me

Don't let your VSoC go above 1.35 V. With 6000 MHz RAM, you should be fine with 1.2-1.25.

Also, my 7800X3D didn't work with a 280 mm be quiet AIO, like, at all. It throttled to ridiculous speeds, and I could never figure out why. It works fabulously with a Dark Rock 4 instead.

Ive been partial to the Asrock Riptide, all good experiences with the brand so far and it looks competitive... just no ALC1200 but ALC897 on it. Pref not a Gigabyte board (the options seem subpar too, but feel free to convince me otherwise If its a great value option Im game.

I can't speak for the ASRock, but I've got an MSi Pro B650M-A WiFi, which is a great board imo.

 

[#22]

@Vayra86 One thing I forgot is you buying new cooler. Didn't you have AM4 mounting kit included in the box? If not, be quiet! was sending such, at least for some time seven years ago as it's suggested by "This service is available as long as stock lasts. Thank you!". https://www.bequiet.com/en/contact/coolermounting

From what I see the case fits 165mm and the cooler is 163mm, so should be no problem, especially given that such official dimensions tend to be a little wrong in a good way - cases tend to fit a little more. And btw I once saw an opinion of man complaining about Pearless Assassin making some anomaly noises (guy wasn't good at describing), but what helped him was to mount one fan a little higher to avoid both running in line. Maybe it was beat frequency Noctua explained in latest interview with Gamer's Nexus, so also running one fan a little different speed could help. On the other hand I bet that with low-power 7800X3D front fan of this cooler would be more useful used as a case fan. Secound fans on dual towers don't do much, especially on such low power chips.

 

[Vayra86]

Follow Lan-Li's recommended fan positions that is shown in the user manual and on their website. Their recommendation is that you mount 3 exhaust fans top and one exhaust on the back whether it be with an air cooler or AIO. Also, as an option, you can add one fan on the side as an intake when you are cool. I followed that and get grate temps in a room with 27C ambient temp, and after 3 hours of solid gaming, my 7900XT temps are under 90C (Hotspot, Memory Junction) with the driver set to the quite mode. They get even lower with it set to balanced, but the card becomes noisier. When I run it in rage mode, the card becomes somewhat loud, but the temps are actually lower thein the other two settings.

Thx for that insight. Exhaust at top fits nicely with some mesh dust filters on the side panels too and that should also path the airflow more strictly towards the top/rear. Ill just reuse my current case fans for that then and drop the T30s in the bottom

@Vayra86 One thing I forgot is you buying new cooler. Didn't you have AM4 mounting kit included in the box? If not, be quiet! was sending such, at least for some time seven years ago as it's suggested by "This service is available as long as stock lasts. Thank you!". https://www.bequiet.com/en/contact/coolermounting

From what I see the case fits 165mm and the cooler is 163mm, so should be no problem, especially given that such official dimensions tend to be a little wrong in a good way - cases tend to fit a little more. And btw I once saw an opinion of man complaining about Pearless Assassin making some anomaly noises (guy wasn't good at describing), but what helped him was to mount one fan a little higher to avoid both running in line. Maybe it was beat frequency Noctua explained in latest interview with Gamer's Nexus, so also running one fan a little different speed could help. On the other hand I bet that with low-power 7800X3D front fan of this cooler would be more useful used as a case fan. Secound fans on dual towers don't do much, especially on such low power chips.

Im placing a Peerless Assassin on it. It saves me a centimeter and over 500gr of weight in there, plus I can just keep the 8700K build intact zero effort. I will certainly do some experimenting with fan placement there, I also read the PAss has no ram offset so mounting the front fan a little higher seems like a common move.

If you're not in a hurry and it's possible for you, I'd say wait for B850 boards to become available in September/Q4 (in just 2 months time). Get a MAG B850M MORTAR WIFI then.

If you have to assemble the system RN, the B650 board will do the job.

I mentioned B850 because your current board (K6 Z370) dates back to 2017 so you've been using that for like 7 years. If you keep your MBs for 7 years, then a B850 board serves you better (new Audio chip, faster WIFI/LAN speeds, faster and more I/O ports, and the like).

Mehh early adopting a new chipset and probably a higher price point isnt immediately attractive imo. Why would a new B set offer more in the same tier?

 

[Taraquin]

You hardly even need a VRM at all for a 7800X3D. Some mATX boards are a little light on their VRMs (mainly the Gigabyte 6 phase ones, e.g. Gaming X) but they're all DrMOS so it's not much of a concern. Riptide is probably one of the strongest options.

Just stay away from the vast majority of the Asus mATX boards (TUF ok). They didn't get the memo and are still using discrete configs that would be considered garbage even for AM4. Stay away from some of the lowest end mATX MSIs for the same reason.

The Corsair kit is Hynix, thus it should be good. 6000CL30 is a good decent bin. You can go all the way up to (some) 6000CL34 without becoming non-Hynix. At 5600 I think some CL30 kits are still Hynix. Just look for a big gap between tCL and tRCD on the XMP.

I'm not sure I would waste PTM7950 on a CPU with a heatspreader. It works its magic on direct die applications and idk if that phase change characteristic is going to negatively affect cooling if IHS is in play. If you wanna splurge, go for some Kryosheet or something. Accomplishes much the same but should perform noticeably better here.

ALC897 isn't insufferable like some of the even lower end stuff is (ie. ALC887), but neither is ALC1200 amazing. Just get a cheap DAC or audio interface for your headphones, if you are worried

Ptm7950 on 7800X3D is a waste. It performs the same as paste since the ihs rarely becomes hot enough for full phasechange. I put ptm7950 on my 7800X3D with peerless assassin, equal perfprmance to mx-6 but more expensive. It lives forever though.

On notebook and gpus ptm7950 is awesome and performs very close to liquid metal but non-conductive and very good longevity

As for ram: If you plan to tweak/tune, get 6000c30-32 so you know it is Hynix. If not, get whatever 6000 kit.

 

[#22]

Mehh early adopting a new chipset and probably a higher price point isnt immediately attractive imo. Why would a new B set offer more in the same tier?

Won't it have more common PCIe 5.0 for the drives and card? I won't bother to check specs now, but if I recall now PCIe 5.0 requirement starts with B650E, so maybe at best some B650 models happen to get some. AM5 has unknown potential of longevity what creates potential of anything higher standard coming handy. PCIe for GPU if you happen to have GPU with it cut down or you can be pretty sure that such drives will sit in upcoming in few years consoles, so bringing such requirements to pc. Not counting potential moves with Direct Storage. It's all crystal ball, but not much to pay premium, if any, to be safer here.

 

[Vayra86]

Won't it have more common PCIe 5.0 for the drives and card? I won't bother to check specs now, but if I recall now PCIe 5.0 requirement starts with B650E, so maybe at best some B650 models happen to get some. AM5 has unknown potential of longevity what creates potential of anything higher standard coming handy. PCIe for GPU if you happen to have GPU with it cut down or you can be pretty sure that such drives will sit in upcoming in few years consoles, so bringing such requirements to pc. Not counting potential moves with Direct Storage. It's all crystal ball, but not much to pay premium, if any, to be safer here.

Im going to fill up both M2 slots already and 2x SSD plus either a third 3.5 Hdd or a third SSD. In my experience thats it then and I dont see any value in same socket cpu upgrades either; the 7800X3D is plenty fast for the 7900XT and an eventual next upgrade too. Its going to be set and forget for everything except the gpu. 4.0 x16 is more than sufficient there too.

And sure new standards, but the last seven years were uneventful that way and I dont see that changing much going forward. No need to chase the cutting edge

 

[#22]

Im going to fill up both M2 slots already and 2x SSD plus either a third 3.5 Hdd or a third SSD. In my experience thats it then and I dont see any value in same socket cpu upgrades either; the 7800X3D is plenty fast for the 7900XT and an eventual next upgrade too. Its going to be set and forget for everything except the gpu. 4.0 x16 is more than sufficient there too.

And sure new standards, but the last seven years were uneventful that way and I dont see that changing much going forward. No need to chase the cutting edge

Features coming handy is a fact of unknown time presence, so you can't discuss it with assuming it won't be your case They will also make the board more valuable later, on used market. Especially given that whole "upgrade path" is a thing potentially useful with letting you save on buying a board for next CPU, but guaranteed to massacre the resell value of both CPU and board. In the end I know it may be hard to find mATX AM5 board having PCIe 5.0 both for drive and GPU and not being something priced accordingly to being such a rare find or even worse - ITX. And this is what new gen of boards could change. Now I checked and see that X chipsets will have both, B850 required for a drive (imo more likely come in handy) and optional for GPU, so ones having both should be more common and affordable.

 

[Vayra86]

Features coming handy is a fact of unknown time presence, so you can't discuss it with assuming it won't be your case They will also make the board more valuable later, on used market. Especially given that whole "upgrade path" is a thing potentially useful with letting you save on buying a board for next CPU, but guaranteed to massacre the resell value of both CPU and board. In the end I know it may be hard to find mATX AM5 board having PCIe 5.0 both for drive and GPU and not being something priced accordingly to being such a rare find or even worse - ITX. And this is what new gen of boards could change. Now I checked and see that X chipsets will have both, B850 required for a drive (imo more likely come in handy) and optional for GPU, so ones having both should be more common and affordable.

I never sell board/cpu/ram. They move to become htpc; the current 3570K is getting a bit slow these days

And lets be honest, drives are already fast enough even on sata 600.

I think Ill drill a hole in the 3570k and put it on my keychain

 

[Sunny and 75]

Why would a new B set offer more in the same tier?

I read somewhere that B850 is like B650E but with the price of B650 (non-E) so you could potentially get a better deal by opting to wait for a B850 board. And there's always some form of improvement when a new MB series gets released.

I wouldn't mention B850 if we weren't close to the new HW launches. Also ARL will most likely make 7800X3D cheaper so take that into consideration as well.

You're right about early adopting stuff though, I give you that.

Mehh early adopting a new chipset and probably a higher price point isnt immediately attractive imo.

I hear you.

If you can't wait any longer, B650 it is then.

 

[Vayra86]

New battle station online. Man, this case is a joy to build in. Everything is rock solid, and engineered with brains.

It was an easy fit altogether in this case, except for the bottom intake which is now just my GPU because it was too chonky after all; T30s went to the top lol. Set them for 1000 rpm, the rig's whisper quiet.

With W11 IOTEnterprise LTSC all set for a decade.

 

[Lost_Troll]

I have to say, Lan-Li hit a home run with that case (And it will even fit a 360 AIO to boot). Nice build and I like to see what your temp are after a long period of gaming. Mine are grate with the video card driver set to balanced and the i9 12900 set to 288 on the PL1 and PL2 power limit.

 

[Vayra86]

Holy shit. 72,5C maximum under OCCT stability testing. Lovely. All I did was edit bios for maximum TDP of 80W / temp of 85C. EXPO enabled. Cores still boost to 5 Ghz.. System's whisper quiet

Warhammer 3 campaign map at a nice 95+ FPS

7900XT temps have improved a bit too. Can pull 300W now without seeing 95C hotspot, and its also super stable. Been sitting at these exact figures for 2 minutes straight, no single celsius change whatsoever.
Topside of the case is just... cold. This thing vents like a mother And that's with just the GPU as intake...

 

[Blaeza]

Please post Cinebench results. I may need to copy whatever you have done as I'm hitting 87-89.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Looks Fing awesome dude.... Welcome to the Ryzen 7000 club. Glad you went with the T30s.

 

[Vayra86]

TW Warhammer 3 no longer stutters. I'm such a happy camper now

@Blaeza