Sound Card suggestion to get rid of Realtek ALC4080

[Ferather]

If you was going external (which I see you wont be), you would have either SPDIF or USB, USB has no benefits, its copper not optical, and I have not seen an ExDAC with 15+ channel SPDIF.
You would otherwise argue that USB would allow SPDIF to do more than with an HDA bus, this is true, but never implemented, at least not yet.

 

[Orodruin]

I second this guy opinion. Didn't know Xonar AE got Windows 11 driver which should be good, on paper it looks the best spec-wise, driver I don't know. I used to have Xonar HDAV1.3 I really didn't like their driver.

Honestly any of those you mention would be good really, it's just a matter of you wanted internal card or external DAC, ASUS driver or Creative driver.

Are there any models that use ALC1220 among the sound cards I have listed for purchase?

Which chip does the Xonar SE or AE 7.1 use?

Or which chip does the Creative RX or Fx v2 have?
Which of these 4 models would you prefer?

I have been watching this thread and am finally able to sit down to review what you have available to you.

Creative Audigy FX V2. It has the most recent driver support as of May 2024.

The Sound Blaster RX was last updated in February 2022. Last update was 4 years prior.

Asus Xonar AE 7.1 was last updated December 2020. They list the driver as Windows 10. This should work with Windows 11.

Asus Xonar SE was last updated July 2022 and it does support Windows 11.

If you need Optical Audio, then I would recommend the Sound Blaster RX.

If you don't need optical audio, I would recommend the Audigy FX V2. You can get an optional daughter board for the FX V2 for Optical Audio, but I don't know the availability of this in your country.

Yıllar boyunca birkaç kez yaşadığım gibi, windows güncellemeleri veya daha yeni bir işletim sistemi için destek eksikliği, en yeni sürücü desteğine sahip kartla giderdim. Bir ses kartı düzgün bir şekilde çalıştığında, gerçekten onunla uğraşmanıza gerek yoktur.

Daha önce de belirtildiği gibi, ASUS geçmişte kartlarına yönelik desteği rastgele bırakmıştı. Bu yüzden Xonar Xense'imden kurtuldum, o sırada işletim sistemimi yükselttiğimde resmi Windows 10 desteğine sahip değillerdi ve benim için buggy olan ve kartla düzgün çalışmayan UNi sürücülerini kullanmak zorunda kaldım.

Sahip olduğum Sound Blaster G6'nın bağlantısı sıklıkla rastgele kesiliyor ve dokunulduğunda olduğu gibi aşırı derecede ısınıyor, neredeyse yanıyordu.

Yıllar boyunca epey ses kartı kullandım.

Sound Blaster 16, Sound Blaster Live, Audigy 1-4, X-Fi Fatality, Sound Blaster Z, G6, AE-5, AE-9 (güncel)

Xonar Xense

Auzentech X-Fi Prelude

EVGA Nu Audio Pro (EVGA, Windows 10'da sürücü desteğini durdurdu ve Windows 11'e yapılan bir güncelleme, kontrol panelinin artık kartı kontrol etme işlevi görmemesini sağladı. EVGA bu sorunu henüz çözmedi ve kartı sattım.)

Sennheiser GSX 1000

Thank you very much for the information about the current drivers.

Frankly, I have never used optical output. Because I do not have a device that I can get optical sound from.

If you were to choose one of these sound cards, which one would you choose and why?
What is important to me is to get clean sound and not have driver problems.
That is enough for me.
I do not have a very high level expectation.

 

[ViperXZ]

I didn’t read all this, I will just say that I can recommend a SoundblasterX AE-5 (or higher), it works very well, good quality and the drivers / software are fine too. Edit: if you can find it. Maybe try eBay or other shops.

 

[kiddagoat]

Asus Xonar AE 7.1 - CMedia CM6632AE
Asus Xonar SE - CMedia CM6620A

Sound Blaster RX - Creative CA10300-IAT <----- RECOMMENDED
Sound Blaster Audigy FX - Realtek ALC1220

Identifying the chips does help a bit.

The RX is reusing the Audigy 4 controller and updated drivers. This is a very good audio processor.

The CMedia chipsets are really good too. I have not used either on the Asus Cards.

C-Media OxygenHD CMI8788 was on my Xense and it was wonderful for the time.

Knowing the chipsets on each card, I would go with the Sound Blaster RX. With updated drivers and functionality, that is going to be your best all-around option.

 

[kapone32]

Creative did the same to the X-Fi after Win7, its not just Asus. If it was working why did Windows change?
There is only Creative and Asus as main producers, not much to go by for options.

Auzentech is using Creative to my knowledge.

Since they were the 2 most popular led to the narrative that Sound cards were no longer viable.

 

[Ferather]

In this case, viable, in other cases, added costs. Desktop CPU's and GPU's also have only 2 major brands. I have also seen the decline in motherboard chipset brands.
It would seem Realtek did enough of a good job overall, to become the default for nearly all (probably all modern) onboard audio solutions.

Apparently they did well enough with the 1220 that Creative are using it. I have seen Realtek with ESS Sabre DAC's.
My AGON monitor has a Realtek controller, Realtek also make ethernet and other parts.

Does Creative onboard exist? If not, why not?

Currently using an [Asus S1220A with Crystal Sound 3], the name given by Asus for the hardware implementation (DAC, Amp, parts), still a 1220.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I'd say this could be, under many circumstances, an old wisdom that no longer applies. In my experience, modern Windows handles multiple audio devices just fine, for all its other failings.

And you think this because you haven't seemed to have crossed paths with the MANY problems and annoyances of the way Windows handles multiple audio devices. Hell no. My advice is based on recent experiences with Windows 10 and 11. The advice is, ironically, sound.

Just because YOU haven't had problems, or they haven't annoyed you too much, does not mean that everyone has had the same experience.

Does Creative onboard exist? If not, why not?

That question has been asked consistently over many decades. It comes down to cost and what board makers consider "good enough".

 

[Vincero]

Does Creative onboard exist? If not, why not?

Cost mostly. Before HDA there was an attempt to two to put a SoundBlaster chip on motherboards but ultimately the increased cost and lack of uptake killed it. Later came the X-Fi MB software solution that just used software processing with the onboard HDA codec chip.

You'd have to ask Microsoft what they changed. After XP and starting with Vista/7 they dropped all hardware acceleration for audio. That's why your EAX and similar functions of legacy cards no longer work. Creative came out with OpenAL to help translate those hardware functions to meet the demands of the new audio engine Windows implemented. At the time, Vortex, Realtek, and others didn't have anything. At one-point Realtek did something similar, but it was short lived.

Being that the audio engine is software based now, I would imagine that those OS updates can affect that over time. Though this isn't the purpose of this thread, and I'd rather not get off topic.

The reasons for the changes was to open up audio processing using standard libraries and methods in the same way that OpenGL and Direct3D replaced the use of proprietary APIs for 3D graphics such as GLide, PowerSGL, Speedy3D, RRedline, etc. - also hardware acceleration was not dropped exactly - offloading from the CPU still existed (as long as the drivers worked for it) which ultimately was what the 'acceleration' provided via EAX/A3D was - the hardware managing the multiple sound samples playback and applied effects instead of the CPU processing it all and possibly even processing the audio codec output.

Back in the day EAX and A3D were main games in town - they worked differently, were not compatible, needed support from the game developers, and in some cases there was no fallback path in terms of providing the same level of output via software. EAX was an extension to how DirectSound(3D) worked and thus was reliant upon it.
MS changed how DirectSound worked (ultimately breaking compatibility with the older card capabilities) with Vista onwards and DirectSound is merely emulated (which notably breaks some DirectSound3D functions also) as it's not part of the main Windows sound software stack - OpenAL worked around this by accessing the drivers directly where possible (which maybe gives a hint as to seeing why MS was changing it so that sound software was less directly involved with interacting with hardware in uncontrollable ways).

What was most annoying was how much Creative dragged their heels releasing software updates for SB Live/Audigy/X-Fi products as things migrated from XP to 7 to 10.

 

[Ferather]

@lexluthermiester

Well its certainly got to the point where a 32 bit fixed DAC (S1220A), sounds equal (at the same volume) to a 'lossy' digital encoder, and old one, over SPDIF.
The analogue volume loss is quite obvious though, without the internal amp (which I should not use with active speakers).

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@Vincero

Indeed. And we are talking analogue the whole time, not lossless digital. Analogue has met an end, for the better part (consumer).

====

I can switch between 6 channel direct (analogue), and 6 channel DTS Digital Surround (SPDIF), same Z906.
PowerDAC's are the next step, although there is no strict standard, a good read here.

I have my own design of an Optical PowerDAC, per speaker, using PAM, 'PAM 100 Speakers' (100 bit).

 

[Patolin]

Its probably sound weird, but in your case (amd platform) a new mobo with an alc1220 (or 1200 if you dont care about headphones) its a "better/safer way".
Internal sound cards and amd platforms is not a good mix, sure the audigy fx v2 has a 1220 codec/dac but also use a creative propietary chip to do the pci-e conection of the card and all the creative sound cards has issues with amd.
And yes the alc4080 and 4082 has issues in some boards because they are internaly usb conected. Try disabling all the rgb of the motherboard...

 

[lexluthermiester]

I figured there would be DAC replies in here.

Yeah, right? I'm with the OP. I want all my parts INSIDE my case, neatly organized and where they belong.

@lexluthermiester

Well its certainly got to the point where a 32 bit fixed DAC (S1220A), sounds equal (at the same volume) to a 'lossy' digital encoder, and old one, over SPDIF.
The analogue volume loss is quite obvious though, without the internal amp (which I should not use with active speakers).

Ok? Sure? What were you responding to? (hint, use the reply button!)

 

[Ferather]

"Good enough", sorry.

 

[Vincero]

Indeed. And we are talking analogue the whole time, not lossless digital. Analogue has met an end, for the better part (consumer).

Well, I assume you mean end output stages - although Creative had a whole load of other bodges going on to impact sound quality within the digital stages - keep in mind any of the better Live!/Audigy/X-Fi packages had either a seperate backing plate (on Live! cards) with SPDIF outputs or the drive bay box which provided additional outputs and SPDIF connections. I know the X-Fi's could pass Dolby/DTS via SPDIF (and I think some Audigy2's could do it before).

To be fair to them, SoundBlaster were really aiming to cover all the mainstream options - in terms of cost, analogue was and is king. SLOWLY it has become more mainstream for people to be either hooking up their PCs to AV devices, TVs, and now external DACs which have become a hell of a lot cheaper over the last 10-15 years.

The last sound card I ever purchased was an Asus Xonar purely because the analogue output quality was far superior (but it also did bitstream over SPDIF), and even that I don't use any more.

 

[kapone32]

Well, I assume you mean end output stages - although Creative had a whole load of other bodges going on to impact sound quality within the digital stages - keep in mind any of the better Live!/Audigy/X-Fi packages had either a seperate backing plate (on Live! cards) with SPDIF outputs or the drive bay box which provided additional outputs and SPDIF connections. I know the X-Fi's could pass Dolby/DTS via SPDIF (and I think some Audigy2's could do it before).

To be fair to them, SoundBlaster were really aiming to cover all the mainstream options - in terms of cost, analogue was and is king. SLOWLY it has become more mainstream for people to be either hooking up their PCs to AV devices, TVs, and now external DACs which have become a hell of a lot cheaper over the last 10-15 years.

The last sound card I ever purchased was an Asus Xonar purely because the analogue output quality was far superior (but it also did bitstream over SPDIF), and even that I don't use any more.

If you really want the best Codec, get yourself a receiver with a Toslink port. My old Sony from 2000 is the best piece of electronics that I have for Audio.

 

[Vincero]

If you really want the best Codec, get yourself a receiver with a Toslink port. My old Sony from 2000 is the best piece of electronics that I have for Audio.

I went the Pioneer route myself... TOS and SPDIF options so couldn't loose either way. Then if needed just plug headphones into the front (of the receiver... you thought I mean the PC case?)...

Modern small DACs might be better seeing as less 'bloat' (and likely much much more efficient) but in the early/mid-2000s AV receivers were the new hotness so...

EDIT: There were some early 'external' USB connected sound cards around back then - glad I ignored them because it seems support for many of them hasn't faired any better than many other sound cards and USB devices generally.

 

[Ferather]

To get true sound to the speaker, it must be lossless and have no added signature, even speaker manufacturers are working at this. Digital is ideal (lossless), optical even more so.
No such thing as lossless analogue, so in order for speaker manufacturers to get true sound, analogue must 'get out of the way', as much as possible.

Edit: Also, if you are using an ExDAC with analogue in, you are using the onboard DAC, the ExDAC is mostly just an amp.

What is True Sound? The concept explained | Make sure to read the PowerDAC concept above (#84).

 

[Vincero]

To get true sound to the speaker, it must be lossless and have no added signature, even speaker manufacturers are working at this. Digital is ideal (lossless), optical even more so.
No such thing as lossless analogue, so in order for speaker manufacturers to get true sound, analogue must 'get out of the way', as much as possible.

What is True Sound? The concept explained | Stuff

You are aware we live in an analogue world.... at what point do you stop after then controlling the air temp, humidity, and take your ears out the equation? What about the original sound pick-up and conversion ADCs?

At the end of the day, audio and video we have had since the very beginning and will likely have even if we had some direct brain feed will still be a 'reproduction' and there will be a limitation / deficiency somewhere. The fact that people will pick different headphones, amps, speakers, etc., to suite their taste means selecting an interpretation of that reproduction that is most satisfactory.
Most importantly, there is usally a commercial limiting factor of how much people are willing to pay for something, even at the quality end of the spectrum.

Arguably Class D amplifiers were the first step at bringing a more direct digital output to sound output - combine that with how audio is stored in DSD format and you could output sound with a lot less in-between handling of the audio BUT then you have to deal with potential digital quantisation distortion, etc... it will never be fully 'clean' / untouched and, in some cases without an adaptive loundness curve to adjust the frequency response to please the human ear / each individual, even then some people will not be happy with the output.

You're arguing for the representation to be perfect when people generally will tend to aim wide of that mark on purpose...

 

[Ferather]

Yes we hear analogue waves, but life does not use volts +- to produce analogue sound, that's man made. There will always be differences in real sound and recorded sound.
The point I am making is many people will complain about XYZ model and promote ABC model, even with headphones, there is no actual standard.

True sound would be the standard, and given PCM processing is involved, that could be altered to suit the consumer.
As a side note, an analogue (volt based) CPU is much less accurate than a digital CPU.

Save your audio on analogue tape, or on CD, or as FLAC on a drive?

 

[Vincero]

True sound would be the standard, and given PCM processing is involved, that could be altered to suit the consumer.

But that in itself is a bone of contention - PCM is just a representation as is DSD, which are fed from some form of microphone that ultimately uses them +/- volts to work. People disagree on which is better, and that's not bringing in any other considerations.

There in though lies the problem - given true / pure sound, the end consumer will likely wish to manipulate it.
I'm not saying what's wrong or right... that's up to people (and their wallet) to decide - I've refrained from at any point in this entire thread saying anything like that - personal taste makes a massive difference. I've listened to good cheap external DACs and 'nothing special' more expensive ones - some people still use valve amplifiers for the sound quality which, I have to say, depends massively on the speakers you have connected to that amplifier as to how good/worthwhile that is (but then the same can be true with any amplifier / speaker combination).

 

[Ferather]

All a good conversation from my end, we all know (or should) optical is superior at transmitting digital than voltage and copper. And we also know PCM is lossless.
Indeed the microphone, but if my 'PAM Speaker' design works, maybe its also possible to produce an 'Optical PowerADC', no idea.

Edit: I forgot to post, hope you read the True Sound link, here is Yamaha (mentioned) with the DSR series.
They are using analogue input for compatibility, otherwise digital, similar to my DMAS.

In my DMAS design the converter is in the speaker (like the DSR), but starts as digital (PAM), its also a PowerDAC (no PWM).


Optical computing - Wikipedia | I will shut up now! xD

 

[Vincero]

No need to shut up, although in jest:

All a good conversation from my end, we all know (or should) optical is superior at transmitting digital than voltage and copper. And we also know PCM is lossless.

Did you just call a potentially stepped / quantised representation of a potentially constantly varying sound wave 'lossless'...?

As for optical vs digital.... I'd take a cheap reasonable quality coaxial cable SPDIF connection over a cheap optical/TOS link any day using normal consumer equipment with all things being equal and normal (say sub 5m) distance - the bit-rate of SPDIF (at the moment) is really not high enough for the copper signal degredation / reflection to make a difference. This is mainly due to the fact I've come across cheap optical links being problematic compared to normal coax.

But yeah, extra distance + quality = optical.

Edit: I forgot to post, hope you read the True Sound link, here is Yamaha (mentioned) with the DSR series.
They are using analogue input for compatibility, otherwise digital, similar to my DMAS.

Yeah, good example of designing the amp and speakers to match (kinda like the point I was getting at with valve amps - people think on their own they make a huge difference, and they can, but the right speakers can make a real difference)... reminds me of the YST kit they used to make and how effective that was for them... ahhh good times.

 

[Ferather]

Depends how many bits close-to-natural is to be honest, but you are right, bits = steps = resolution. PAM 100 (100 bit) is probably enough consumer wise, who knows.
10v (+5,-5), would be 10 /100 = 0.1v a step (+,-), which will be more accurate than 10 / 24 = ~0.417v a step. But we are talking 'PAM Speakers'.

 

[Apocalypsee]

Are there any models that use ALC1220 among the sound cards I have listed for purchase?

Which chip does the Xonar SE or AE 7.1 use?

Or which chip does the Creative RX or Fx v2 have?
Which of these 4 models would you prefer?

If you must have ALC1220, Audigy FX V2 uses this chip see picture below. If you asked me which one I will buy out of the 4, I will buy Audigy RX.

Guys don't talk about technical jargon, this guy just need a soundcard that he will just plug in, install driver and leave it as is. Don't need to confuse him further.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Guys don't talk about technical jargon, this guy just need a soundcard that he will just plug in, install driver and leave it as is. Don't need to confuse him further.

This!

The sound purist talk is not what the OP asked about. They asked for a recommendation for a good, solid plugin sound card.

 

[Orodruin]

After a long struggle and testing, I managed to solve the problem. That's why I'm writing a little late.

I updated the ALC4080 Firmware update from another motherboard page with the same sound chip and the sound problem was fixed.

I even bought a Razer Leviathan 5.1 Soundbar sound system with optical audio connection to get a smoother sound experience.

The sound is amazing now and there is no problem at all.
Moreover, the THX settings that were limited when using it with the normal analog jack were completely opened when I switched to optical. It gives perfect sound. No cracking. No crackling.

I also learned that optical sound really makes a difference.

I was going to buy a sound card, but when I bought a sound system with optical output and updated the FW, the problem was fixed.

I'm writing a little late, but these driver and testing processes took me about a week.

Thank you very much to everyone who helped in advance.

@Apocalypsee
@lexluthermiester
@Ferather
@Vincero
@kiddagoat
@ViperXZ
@JWNoctis
@Patolin
@kapone32
@LabRat 891
@chrcoluk
@Pacmanpc
@Blue4130
@Dr. Dro
@Athlonite