Lowering idle power on Zen 4?

[rubiconlexicon]

RPL was a dead end and it pulls a ton of power while ARL is too expensive, so zen was my only choice either way. I honestly didnt even know that new zen pulled 30W for fun. thats like, a pretty big deal for everyone without A/C since that means cooking yourself alive in the summer.

Oh, and I also didnt know they dont target a frequency but rather a temp (is there any way to change this by the way? 50°C while on the desktop is kinda bad).

it's my mistake in the end, but reddit can be an hell of a braindead echo chamber.

The power is one thing but why do you care what the temp is?

 

[JakoDel]

The power is one thing but why do you care what the temp is?

what I meant is. I dont care about the temperature itself but since the cpu scales with temp and it has 50°C as a target while idling, it pulls 15w extra to keep the CPU at 4GHz for no reason at all, without anyone interacting with the PC for an hour. the snapdragon 801 in my 2014 smartphone has a smarter behaviour

 

[rubiconlexicon]

what I meant is. I dont care about the temperature itself but since the cpu scales with temp and it has 50°C as a target while idling, it pulls 15w extra to keep the CPU at 4GHz for no reason at all, without anyone interacting with the PC for an hour. the snapdragon 801 in my 2014 smartphone has a smarter behaviour

That doesn't seem right, my 7700X idles at around 50C-60C on a hotter day and the clocks reduce to tens or low hundreds of MHz as you would expect.

 

[freeagent]

SOC voltage will play a strong role in your idle temps.

 

[Zach_01]

what I meant is. I dont care about the temperature itself but since the cpu scales with temp and it has 50°C as a target while idling, it pulls 15w extra to keep the CPU at 4GHz for no reason at all, without anyone interacting with the PC for an hour. the snapdragon 801 in my 2014 smartphone has a smarter behaviour

Ryzens are known to be boost jumpy on small loads and win power plan can be complimentary on this. Also depends on the services on the background.

Win 11 have 2 different settings on power plan.
I use balanced at 1 and low power at 2.

So cores are idling at 3.3GHz before entering the suspended mode. Long term while I use PC for the simplest stuff, like browsing and watching vids the avg core (discrete) clocks are 3.4-3.5GHz.
Power hovers around 40-50W usually and temp in the high 30s - low 40s. Ambient 23C.
The 420mm AIO helps but still fan speed stays (avg) 300-350rpm with above conditions. Pump also reduces speed under 50%.

 

[Waldorf]

@freeagent
but almost non, vs limiting max clock for idle/low load use.
as i will never see ~50w less, just by lowering soc, even at stock clocks.

@JakoDel
as said before, adjust the power savings plan (disable usb/pcie savings) to 0% for min and 50% for max cpu clock, and when there is need for power, switch to balanced (99% min, 100% max cpu).
you can find guides online to make shortcuts for each, and switch between them easily.

 

[cal5582]

Most of the day is idle or most of the day is running?

My CPU idles around 45W
PC is running about 14-16h per day avg.
But only half of that time is idling. Maybe even less...

Lets say 8 hours. Compared to a CPU that is idling at 10W its 35W more
35W/h = 0.035 KW/h X 8 h = 0.28 KW/h

The cost of my KW/h including vat, taxes and everything is about 0.22€

0.28 KW/h x 365 days = 102.2 KW/h

102.2 KW/h x 0.22€ = 22.5€

+22.5€ per year on my bill for the excessive amount of +35W
oh boy...

where are you that they are charging .22 a kh/h. its like .15 usd here in the states.

 

[Zach_01]

where are you that they are charging .22 a kh/h. its like .15 usd here in the states.

Since I wrote €, I am half the planet across.
EU, Greece

And I believe that in some states of US its even more expensive than here. And on other places of Europe too.

~5years ago the price was less than 0.1€ and after what started in Europe everything has gone up. Power, gas, diesel, NG, food...

 

[Athlonite]

where are you that they are charging .22 a kh/h. its like .15 usd here in the states.

Because your country still produces a lot of dirty power ie: Wood/coal/gas fired power stations along with some Nuclear power stations aswell in other countries where they lack that and relied upon Gas that used to come cheaply from Russia which isn't now costs of production have gone up. In my own country NZ I get stung $0.25KW/h excluding GST (sales Tax) which will add another 15% to that and ours is mostly Hydro and Geothermal with a tiny bit of wind generation and the odd bit of Coal/Gas when needed

 

[cal5582]

Because your country still produces a lot of dirty power ie: Wood/coal/gas fired power stations along with some Nuclear power stations aswell in other countries where they lack that and relied upon Gas that used to come cheaply from Russia which isn't now costs of production have gone up. In my own country NZ I get stung $0.25KW/h excluding GST (sales Tax) which will add another 15% to that and ours is mostly Hydro and Geothermal with a tiny bit of wind generation and the odd bit of Coal/Gas when needed

man that must suck. i dont think i would want clean energy if it made my bill go up by almost double.

 

[WhenMusicAttacks]

some testing on bottoming voltages

 

[freeagent]

but almost non, vs limiting max clock for idle/low load use.
as i will never see ~50w less, just by lowering soc, even at stock clocks.

You are talking about this power?

 

[Waldorf]

@cal5582
cost is more related to provider, not source. you can find "green" power for similar cost (when i looked at prices in germany few month ago).

@freeagent
whats that, ryzen sw?
fucked up my fan profiles once, when i played around with tweaks, havent used it since.

i used OCCT, for cpu power package/ppt, as i wanted to show that difference between unrestricted cpu clocks + lower bus clocks (jedec ram),
vs what you can get from limiting max clock with power plan, while still running higher bus clock.
and you can still do any soc (vol) tweaking besides my tip.

 

[freeagent]

whats that, ryzen sw?

No sir, I avoid that like the plague.

That is just HWiNFO64.

I use my bios for everything, including my fans.

 

[AMF]

Ryzens are known to be boost jumpy on small loads and win power plan can be complimentary on this. Also depends on the services on the background.

Win 11 have 2 different settings on power plan.
I use balanced at 1 and low power at 2.

So cores are idling at 3.3GHz before entering the suspended mode. Long term while I use PC for the simplest stuff, like browsing and watching vids the avg core (discrete) clocks are 3.4-3.5GHz.
Power hovers around 40-50W usually and temp in the high 30s - low 40s. Ambient 23C.
The 420mm AIO helps but still fan speed stays (avg) 300-350rpm with above conditions. Pump also reduces speed under 50%.

dude run your pump at max all times watch temps drop raise fan minimum to around 600 or so cores should come up a bit

 

[Zach_01]

dude run your pump at max all times watch temps drop raise fan minimum to around 600 or so

No thanks

After 2 hours of simple usage the CPU temp average is around 36~40C with ~300rpm average on the fans (1600rpm max) and pump to 1200~1250rpm average (2000rpm max).
My mistake stating that pump drops below 50%. Its actually 60%.



At those CPU temps the LF II 420 PWM controller drops to 10~12% as my curve dictates



Its a single PWM controller that controls both fans and pump simultaneously.
The pump will max rpm at 60C CPU temp and fans will max out at 72C CPU temp.
Works great, with low noise and minimum wear and dust accumulation.

 

[GerKNG]

i don't understand why most people here want to lower either core clocks or VCore or do some magic with cooling, delidding or whatever.

almost all of your idle powerdraw comes for the I/O Die. on Zen 3 it pulled around 28W and on Zen 4/5 it pulls around 22W.
lower the SoC Voltage to ~1.1V and it should drop by 4-5W. that's all you can do. There is no other trick or tweak.

 

[Zach_01]

i don't understand why most people here want to lower either core clocks or VCore or do some magic with cooling, delidding or whatever.

almost all of your idle powerdraw comes for the I/O Die. on Zen 3 it pulled around 28W and on Zen 4/5 it pulls around 22W.
lower the SoC Voltage to ~1.1V and it should drop by 4-5W. that's all you can do. There is no other trick or tweak.

Under 20W (17~19W) mostly on my dual CCD 5900X, all speeds at 1:1:1, 1800MHz (3600MT/s)
VSoC at 1.09V

IF power can another 10-15W and that is "invisible" but reflected on total CPU power (PPT).

 

[rubiconlexicon]

Gonna necro this thread a bit to mention that finally messing with curve optimiser has given me some substantial idle power improvements (around 17-21W now). I didn't realise it before but of course a negative CO offset can reduce idle power, as it globally reduces the voltage used for each frequency step along the V-F curve which includes low clock states. At -60 (the maximum CO offset allowed on my B650E-F) I was able to achieve stability by limiting the max boost clock to 5325MHz, since the highest frequency states are of course the least stable/have the least OC/UV headroom (this is where so-called "idle instability" with CO on Ryzen comes from -- clock speed spikes).

A nice bonus is that my heavy MT gaming perf (PT Cyberpunk specifically) improved by 5% when compared to default AMD cTDP 65W profile (88W PPT) while only using around 50-60W.

 

[AusWolf]

Gonna necro this thread a bit to mention that finally messing with curve optimiser has given me some substantial idle power improvements (around 17-21W now).

I get that idle power with 4800 MHz RAM and no CO. What you do with the cores doesn't matter in idle. Your SOC voltage (which is affected by RAM speed and IF clock) does.

A nice bonus is that my heavy MT gaming perf (PT Cyberpunk specifically) improved by 5% when compared to default AMD cTDP 65W profile (88W PPT) while only using around 50-60W.

Not using those watts on your SOC gives your cores more breathing room, hence the higher performance. That's one reason why I keep saying, RAM tuning is overrated.

 

[JustBenching]

Gonna necro this thread a bit to mention that finally messing with curve optimiser has given me some substantial idle power improvements (around 17-21W now). I didn't realise it before but of course a negative CO offset can reduce idle power, as it globally reduces the voltage used for each frequency step along the V-F curve which includes low clock states. At -60 (the maximum CO offset allowed on my B650E-F) I was able to achieve stability by limiting the max boost clock to 5325MHz, since the highest frequency states are of course the least stable/have the least OC/UV headroom (this is where so-called "idle instability" with CO on Ryzen comes from -- clock speed spikes).

A nice bonus is that my heavy MT gaming perf (PT Cyberpunk specifically) improved by 5% when compared to default AMD cTDP 65W profile (88W PPT) while only using around 50-60W.

The cores don't change idle power much, actually zen 3 to zen 5 cores drop to a very low state in idle, they barely draw any power. It's the SOC that's the main issue. In mobile zen chips that are monolithic idle power drops to 2-3w, same level as any intel chip.

 

[rubiconlexicon]

The cores don't change idle power much,

What you do with the cores doesn't matter in idle.

From 24.21W to 19.98W average over a 60s period -- almost as much as I got from fully undervolted SOC which was about 6W saving over default SOC voltage.