QVL - Myth, Legend, Marketing/Advertising, what is your take?

[ShrimpBrime]

I wonder how much your region impacts the QVL. The times I've actually looked for QVL memory they have been pretty hard to find here, or just crazy expensive for the specs.

Literature can be helpful....

Doesn't mean people use it.
Because there's nothing straight forward about it.
Here Corsairs memory list.
Good luck finding your memory on qvl.
Click compatibility.
Then match to qvl lists to be sure
Then buy ram.

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/c/memory?srsltid=AfmBOooYEumuJspF4D80d_wMQfqkIFGFj54wlInfSf3BY-I6fXSRVZvQ

Or just buy some ram.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I would add that it is unlikely that anything higher than this will even be able to load.

600 series chipset usually goes up to ~6400, 1DPC ITX with some luck 6600-6800 no higher

 

[eidairaman1]

And people wonder why they have problems at times, because they fail to rtfm.

I'm not saying the qvl is the gospel but a guide.

Reading the manual is necessary to know the capabilities of the board, I see instances of people coming in why their pcie slot wont operate at such a speed etc etc.

 

[freeagent]

I wonder if people think computers are like Lego.

Put the rectangle in the rectangle, match that up with that

That's a lot of pins I hope it goes in this way

 

[mate123]

My system was not stable with 7200 Mhz RAM despite the QVL list... had to "downgrade" to 6000 Mhz of the same ram brand... the shop told me it ultimately depends on the CPU even if the motherboard could in theory support that speed.

 

[eidairaman1]

I wonder if people think computers are like Lego.

Put the rectangle in the rectangle, match that up with that

That's a lot of pins I hope it goes in this way

Even the Guidelines here State to do their diligence to read the manual or search for the answer.

 

[AusWolf]

My system was not stable with 7200 Mhz RAM despite the QVL list... had to "downgrade" to 6000 Mhz of the same ram brand... the shop told me it ultimately depends on the CPU even if the motherboard could in theory support that speed.

The memory controller is integrated into the CPU these days. That's why memory support depends a lot more on your CPU than the motherboard.

 

[freeagent]

the shop told me it ultimately depends on the CPU even if the motherboard could in theory support that speed.

Tis true. Every word. Up to the board too. I know my X570 does not clock as well as my B550..

 

[eidairaman1]

My system was not stable with 7200 Mhz RAM despite the QVL list... had to "downgrade" to 6000 Mhz of the same ram brand... the shop told me it ultimately depends on the CPU even if the motherboard could in theory support that speed.

They are right about that, anything that is XMP/EXPO/AMP/DOCP is not guaranteed to work in every configuration, only Jedec is.

 

[rv8000]

Considering the majority of builders and those using a PC will never touch or manually adjust memory timings, QVL is very important. Topic is sort of born out of arrogance or ignoring how small a slice of pc users true enthusiasts make up.

 

[AusWolf]

Considering the majority of builders and those using a PC will never touch or manually adjust memory timings, QVL is very important. Topic is sort of born out of arrogance or ignoring how small a slice of pc users true enthusiasts make up.

Are you saying that someone who doesn't care about memory timings is not a "true enthusiast"? I'm not saying that you're wrong about QVL and its purpose, but your wording is a bit strange.

 

[Contra]

600 series chipset usually goes up to ~6400, 1DPC ITX with some luck 6600-6800 no higher

Just averaged for 1R/2R. It's suspicious that ASUS didn't try anything higher than 1.25V

 

[freeagent]

Are you saying that someone who doesn't care about memory timings is not a "true enthusiast"? I'm not saying that you're wrong about QVL and its purpose, but your wording is a bit strange.

He is saying that the average Joe does not care about anything but stability, no muss no fuss.

The true meaning of PNP.

 

[eidairaman1]

He is saying that the average Joe does not care about anything but stability, no muss no fuss.

The true meaning of PNP.

Yup which isn't the way this world works, just about everything has a manual and if they don't read it, companies have a means of denying warranties or prevention of being sued all because the end user failed to read it. Some manuals have caution (be aware of) and warnings (always must be adhered to).

 

[ShrimpBrime]

So what if bestbuy has the cpu and board, but I'm standing in the middle of an outlet store trying to figure out qvl??

No, just buy the ram on the shelf, go home and build.

That is what an average Joe does.

Well used too when Tiger direct was still a walking store front. Or maybe Fry's.

Perhaps all the online shopping today has average Joe reading qvl lists more often.

I dunno. Just don't believe people use it. I believe it "could" be, "can" be helpful. Edit. Does not make it useful.

So average shoppers need to be aware of qvl before purchases. How does that happen? When and where does that happen.

(Setting pre-built aside, still has to activate XMP btw...)

 

[Bill_Bright]

The way I see it, QVLs are for people who can't be bothered to research and check compatibility

LOL

That perfectly illustrates the problem I see and eluded to in my post #26 above, and in the previous thread that triggered this poll.

No offense, Tahagomizer, but how is your comment helpful to anyone? Especially for those who "bother" to come to TPU seeking advice on which RAM to buy? Sorry but your comment is as helpful to them as telling them QVLs are "useless" and "worthless".

And frankly, while I know you didn't mean it, that comment was offensive and disrespectful to those who do come to this site seeing advice as researching is exactly what they are doing.

As I said in the other thread,

QVLs are very important - I mean where else can one go to look for compatibility? The board's marketing hype? Amazon? Newegg? PCPartPicker? eBay? Microcenter? We can't trust marketing weenies to give us the correct time of day. And the retailers are just that, retailers. They sure don't have professional testing labs, nor do they pay to have professional testing labs test for compatibility.

The RAM makers? They aren't going to test every board and CPU combination with each of their RAM offerings either. And of course, Crucial is not going recommend G-Skill RAM, or vice versa.

So the ONLY source of this critical information we have are these QVLs. Therefore, when researching for compatible components, QVLs are very important.

So please tell us, @Tahagomizer since you imply you know - what about those of us who are willing to do the research and check for compatibility but don't know where to look or how to check? What about those of us with vast experience - but not familiar with a particular motherboard/chipset/CPU? What about those of us with no experience at all? Where are we supposed to go to do this research? And how do we check for compatibility - if the QVLs are not it?

When I asked this before, one expert here said, "Look at the highest supported speed and don't buy that." Look where? The QVL? No, he said they were "pretty worthless". He never told us where to look. Some "mystery" list, I guess. How does that help folks coming here who ARE bothered and are willing to do the research?

Another expert on this site said posters are just supposed give him "the CPU and board you want to buy, look up previously explained specs, advise by experience." Really? Posters are supposed to know to contact this person, and this person just knows by experience the compatible RAM for every motherboard and CPU out there? Wow. Remarkable. And look up previously explained specs where? That same "mystery" list?

Then it was said that QVLs list RAM based on the RAM makers paying the board makers to list them. I had to dig out my tin foil hat for that one.

And people wonder why they have problems at times, because they fail to rtfm.

Interesting. True, but interesting. And where do the manuals tell users to go to find compatible RAM? The motherboard's webpage and QVLs.

Again, QVLs are not perfect. Motherboard makers do need to do a better job keeping them current (at least while the boards are still in production and being distributed). But they are still the best "starting" place when researching compatible RAM - at least until replaced by a better source of that information.

******

So here's the big picture and problem. There are experts on this site, and I sincerely mean true "experts" and whose expertise I truly respect. Experts I have learned much from. And then you have posters who come to this site seeking advice on how to ensure they are buying compatible RAM.

And what advice do they get some of these experts? The QVLs are "worthless", "useless" or "lame".

So to ALL the experts on this site, why are you here at TPU? Is it to help and advise people with their computer questions? Or it is to impress others with your experience and vast knowledge?

If you are here to help, how is telling posters the QVLs are worthless without advising how or where to get the information they are seeking helping?

If you are here to impress others with your experience and vast knowledge, then teach us! Explain how we can find compatible RAM for our motherboards without using the QVLs. Don't just say "buy this one" (odds are it will be way out of our budget range anyway). Teach us how to determine this ourselves.

You know, teach a man to fish!!!

And PLEASE remember that we all, even you, were once naïve, inexperienced, unknowledgeable newbies once too.

I will say no more on this.

 

[Deslok]

I don't get why everyone is so all or nothing on the value of the QVL, It's a tool and one who's importance can be tied to the system you're setting up, it's true for a typical personal gaming rig qvl isn't usually worth a look but If I'm building something at work, especially something that I won't have regular hands on if something goes wrong I try to use memory off the QVL(not always possible but it usually gives a good starting point if it isn't), whatever performance that might give up is secondary to "has to work".

 

[Arctucas]

I voted 'helps'.

Never had RAM on a QVL list fail to perform at spec.

Have had several not on QVL work very well, even when overclocked and tightened.

 

[ir_cow]

I wonder if people think computers are like Lego.

Put the rectangle in the rectangle, match that up with that

That's a lot of pins I hope it goes in this way

I tell everyone who is a new builder that it is basically Legos and really hard to mess things up now. No longer do you have to read a manually or move dip switches.

 

[freeagent]

I tell everyone who is a new builder that it is basically Legos and really hard to mess things up now. No longer do you have to read a manually or move dip switches.

It is pretty easy though.. my tinker box

Software though.. eh.. more of a hardware guy myself

 

[ir_cow]

600 series chipset usually goes up to ~6400, 1DPC ITX with some luck 6600-6800 no higher

Yeah I maxed out at 6933 for 12th Gen. 7000 was bootable, but never stable. 6400 is more a safe number to assume it will work for people.

 

[eidairaman1]

I tell everyone who is a new builder that it is basically Legos and really hard to mess things up now. No longer do you have to read a manually or move dip switches.

I remember reading manual for my ECS P4VXMS, or Asus P4S8X or was it the MSI K7N2 Delta-L that was dip/jumperless config for the firmware.

Then I dealt with 2 ECS P4VXASD2 boards which had jumpers for ram config as it had both SDR DRAM and DDR DRAM slots, read the manual for those. That board was akin to an LGA 775 AsRock board which had agp and pcie.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

So to ALL the experts on this site, why are you here at TPU?


then teach us!

I will say no more on this.

Shit in bold has nothing to do with QVL lists.

The problem is, the QVL list has been proven to be useless. (Correct?)

Corsair, the links I provide is research. Do you see how many kits are available for DDR5 and some sold in regions where others are not, some boards support some do not.

Motherboard manufacturer has no chance to test a guesstimate 200 kits of ddr5 memory made by just corsair. Do that before release date, and keep it up months/years down the road.

Even your own QVL list is a joke. Please count the number of kits your board covers. Be sure to match your part number to the qvl. Take pictures of all this shit too, cause I want to believe you strictly stick to QVL and expect your vote on that. Then after you have done all that, I want you to research how many kits of DDR4 Corsair produced over the course of like 8 to 10 years (I'm not sure, would have to look it up), then go back and list the number of kits that where discontinued and then superseded to a different part number. Then give a percentage of all ddr4 kits Not on the QVL list and get on back to me. You will find then, the QVL list is nearly useless. (maybe) (You could do this for DDR5, but I figured it might be easier to use your current system specs platform for ease of searching cause you already know the memory part numbers youve installed.

QVL pertains to DOCP and XMP profiles, please take note these people are now enthusiasts. Because XMP is an OVERCLOCKING PROFILE. (Average Joe turned into enthusiast with a click of enable).

 

[MCJAxolotl7]

It's to be taken as a minimum essential listing guide of what has been tested by the board makers, it doesn't mean other modules outside of that listing won't work though.

My Ripjaws weren't on the list and they are overclocked to tighter than what Tridents were (Sig Rig)

The 5800 rig I built in 21 uses Ballistix Gamer 3600 on a B550 Steel Legend, and I don't recall if they were on the list either.

Now in the day I had trouble with Kingston and Corsair.

I avoided them during the 5800 Build from users coming in with issues that couldn't be resolved by even using JEDEC for DDR4.

I might give Patriot, Geil, Teamgroup a go if they have non RGB modules (Too many lights are a headache)

My good experience was with Crucial and Mushkin long ago, seem to be pretty consistent.

For no RGB try Teamgroup T-create mem0ry maybe?

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Mostly useless other than a guide for what the maximum supported memory is.

I haven't looked at a qvl since Zen1/X370

Maybe I'm just lucky but out of the 100s of systems I've built over the last decade only one really old Corsair Kit has ever given me issues and it was a first generation ddr4 4x4 kit.