RX 9070 availability

[Assimilator]

not everyone is in the US, in fact most of the world isn't, the tariffs wont affect the majority of us and by extension AMD that much

Except that's not how it works. Suppliers impacted by these tariffs still want to keep doing business with the USA as it's their largest market, so instead of doing this:

USA price: $1.25
Everywhere else price: $1.00

they spread the hike over the price worldwide so it ends up as:

USA price: $1.15
Everywhere else price: $1.15

Now their largest market is unhappy, but not as unhappy as it would be if it had to pay that extra 10 cents, and as a side effect everyone else is screwed too. That's what you get when an economically illiterate orange chimp is allowed to make decisions based on the smell of its farts.

 

[Bomby569]

Essentially attempting to 'price control' by having a single vertical source is what you're talking about, and that never works because of one simple metric : The lower the price, the higher the demand.

That's why prices go up until it hits equilibrium where supply = demand.

What you will wind up with is absolutely massive shortages through any normal channel, and black markets ('scalpers') with massively inflated prices. Price fixing is something that has repeatedly failed in the real world.

why "the lower the price"? they made the price, i assume they made a reasonable MSRP

if you're talking about the low stock issue that doesn't have to impact MSRP, Nvidia doesn't make more money from it, we customers pay for it and don't have more or less cards because of it, it doesn't improve the situation. So it's easy to see the middle man is just another scalper at this point, the end result is the same.

 

[SirKeldon]

not sure that's how it works, the chips should go directly from tsmc to the AIB's, it makes no sense to fly them 1st to the US.

Though I get your point, I don't know how this exactly works either, maybe even they're not flying through US, still tariffs applies by being manufactured outside but gaining profits at USA? As stated before, I'm not that good understanding economic laws, specially foreign ones

Maybe somebody with more knowledge at this can light up the subject!

 

[Bomby569]

Except that's not how it works. Suppliers impacted by these tariffs still want to keep doing business with the USA as it's their largest market, so instead of doing this:

USA price: $1.25
Everywhere else price: $1.00

they spread the hike over the price worldwide so it ends up as:

USA price: $1.15
Everywhere else price: $1.15

Now their largest market is unhappy, but not as unhappy as it would be if it had to pay that extra 10 cents, and as a side effect everyone else is screwed too. That's what you get when an economically illiterate orange chimp is allowed to make decisions based on the smell of its farts.

Nvidia/AMD does this? they will change the MSRP? that's not what AMD said, they claimed exactly the opposite by Frank (it's on GN's video his quote)
the AIB's wont, some don't even sell in all markets or the US at all, why should they care.

 

[RandallFlagg]

not sure that's how it works, the chips should go directly from tsmc to the AIB's, it makes no sense to fly them 1st to the US.

Chiplets used to come to the USA for GloFlo to place them on the IO / substrate.

But that's kind of irrelevant here, AFAIK there are no tariffs on Taiwan. The tariffs mostly affect AIBs that are doing assembley in China. So this has zero direct effect on AMD.

The AIBs OTOH, mostly are using China for assembly. One of the things that can happen with tariffs is to setup a simplified assembly in a different country that is not tariffed, i.e. basically send the components for the card (many components are from China) to be assembled elsewhere. This would bypass tariffs on the expensive portions of the finished product, like the GPU itself. Any AIB that is doing assembly somewhere else, like India, Indonesia, Taiwan, S. Korea, etc, will be at an advantage.

This is basically what Apple did with its iPhone assembly plant in India.

Except that's not how it works. Suppliers impacted by these tariffs still want to keep doing business with the USA as it's their largest market, so instead of doing this:

USA price: $1.25
Everywhere else price: $1.00

they spread the hike over the price worldwide so it ends up as:

USA price: $1.15
Everywhere else price: $1.15

Now their largest market is unhappy, but not as unhappy as it would be if it had to pay that extra 10 cents, and as a side effect everyone else is screwed too. That's what you get when an economically illiterate orange chimp is allowed to make decisions based on the smell of its farts.

That's bunk.

Do you think US prices on all kinds of products are higher because of Europe's VAT taxes too?

It's simply not what happens.

 

[Bomby569]

with the USA as it's their largest market, so instead of doing this:

Americans are also very self centred, according to Asus revenue, Asia is by very far their largest market

Asus global revenue by region 2011-2020 | Statista

In 2020, Asus' revenue in the United States stood at 83.84 billion New Taiwan dollars, while revenues generated in China amounted to 64.87 billion New Taiwan dollars.

www.statista.com

PS: Europeans are smarter than what i credited them, avoiding the ASUS tax

 

[Assimilator]

That's bunk.

Do you think US prices on all kinds of products are higher because of Europe's VAT taxes too?

It's simply not what happens.

Which part of "the USA is the largest market and suppliers want to keep it happy" did you fail to read? EU is far smaller, if they decide to tariff then the tariff will be charged back to them.

 

[Bomby569]

Which part of "the USA is the largest market and suppliers want to keep it happy" did you fail to read? EU is far smaller, if they decide to tariff then the tariff will be charged back to them.

damn i had to google some more and what do you know, the biggest AIB, Asus, sold more in Europe than in the US in Q1 2024 by Asus own site and presentation

Americans really are the clueless of creatures.

https://www.asus.com/EVENT/Investor/Content/attachment_en/2024Q1%20IR.pdf

 

[RandallFlagg]

Which part of "the USA is the largest market and suppliers want to keep it happy" did you fail to read? EU is far smaller, if they decide to tariff then the tariff will be charged back to them.

So what all does this apply to? Microwave ovens? Automobiles? Cell phones?

Your entire thought process on this is defective. Tariffs on products entering the US has the same effect on European prices on those products as European VAT taxes have on products entering the US. Which is to say, near zero.

In point of fact, it might actually *lower* prices in Europe if we were talking about something other than a duopoly GPU market with constrained supply. It has to do with the supply / demand curve, and the effect higher prices in the US will likely have on US demand, and what that means for supply elsewhere.

damn i had to google some more and what do you know, the biggest AIB, Asus, sold more in Europe than in the US in Q1 2024 by Asus own site and presentation

Americans really are the clueless of creatures.

https://www.asus.com/EVENT/Investor/Content/attachment_en/2024Q1%20IR.pdf

They should, Europe as a whole has a population of ~745M people. The US has 340M.

 

[Assimilator]

Tariffs on products entering the US has the same effect on European prices on those products as European VAT taxes have on products entering the US. Which is to say, near zero.

Wrong. Tariffs are a tax on importers, VAT is a tax on consumers, the latter does not affect the former and therefore is wholly irrelevant in this discussion.

 

[Bomby569]

They should, Europe as a whole has a population of ~745M people. The US has 340M.

448M according to google, Russia is usually not in the Europe region for corporations, they are in the CIS region or something like that, like Ukraine and Belarus. They are also under sanctions and many companies left Russia and don't sell there.

But this was not about EU>US, just disproving the exact opposite claim that was being made.

 

[mb194dc]

9070 vanilla still in stock in Norway for 10% above msrp, not that bad and far better than the 5070/ti situation.

Outside of bullshit from the likes of OcUK, these should be available at msrp within 3 months.

Reason, there's no shortage of gddr6 unlike 7. They'll be far more supply than demand of both models of 9070.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Wrong. Tariffs are a tax on importers, VAT is a tax on consumers, the latter does not affect the former and therefore is wholly irrelevant in this discussion.

Sure, keep telling yourself that. FYI, VAT is paid at every point in the supply chain.

 

[Bomby569]

Wrong. Tariffs are a tax on importers, VAT is a tax on consumers, the latter does not affect the former and therefore is wholly irrelevant in this discussion.

Companies are the ones that pay (as in actually deliver the cash) both the VAT and the tariffs to the government, and in both cases it's the consumers that end up paying them, the legalities are irrelevant, lets not pretend otherwise.
Making that distinction is not relevant at all.

 

[Zazigalka]

On a positive note, I found the first Nitro 9070xt under 1000e, there's one at 975.

 

[Assimilator]

448M according to google, Russia is usually not in the Europe region for corporations, they are in the CIS region or something like that, like Ukraine and Belarus. They are also under sanctions and many companies left Russia and don't sell there.

But this was not about EU>US, just disproving the exact opposite claim that was being made.

Population numbers honestly aren't relevant to this discussion, the USA is smaller than many nations in terms of populace, all that matters is that the USA has the largest economy and as such it - and its citizens - have, on average, correspondingly more purchasing power than anywhere else on the planet. Or in short, US citizens can afford to buy more GPUs than those of others countries - so they do.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy: employ more people => pay them well => people have more disposable income => people buy more things => more companies are setup to supply those things => those companies hire people => repeat. Except the whole "pay them well" part has kinda gone by the wayside in the last 3 decades, hence why Western economies are contracting.

 

[Bomby569]

Population numbers honestly aren't relevant to this discussion, the USA is smaller than many nations in terms of populace, all that matters is that the USA has the largest economy and as such it - and its citizens - have, on average, correspondingly more purchasing power than anywhere else on the planet. Or in short, US citizens can afford to buy more GPUs than those of others countries - so they do.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy: employ more people => pay them well => people have more disposable income => people buy more things => more companies are setup to supply those things => those companies hire people => repeat. Except the whole "pay them well" part has kinda gone by the wayside in the last 3 decades, hence why Western economies are contracting.

there is a lot of misrepresentations of the truth in your posts today.
The largest economy doesn't translate to the richest people if that's what you mean, things got even worst when you said population numbers aren't relevant to this discussion. The US population is not the one with the "more purchasing power ...on the planet", that would be the the likes of Monaco, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Norway, they have both the most GDP per capita and higher average wages than the US.

I know that murika number one hell yeah and all that, but come on.

 

[Assimilator]

there is a lot of misrepresentations of the truth in your posts today.
The largest economy doesn't translate to the richest people if that's what you mean, things got even worst when you said population numbers aren't relevant to this discussion. The US population is not the one with the "more purchasing power ...on the planet", that would be the the likes of Monaco, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Norway, they have both the most GDP per capita and higher average wages than the US.

I know that murika number one hell yeah and all that, but come on.

But those nations' economy, in aggregate, is still far smaller than the USA's. Just like the EU's economy, in aggregate, is far smaller than the USA's.

 

[Bomby569]

But those nations' economy, in aggregate, is still far smaller than the USA's. Just like the EU's economy, in aggregate, is far smaller than the USA's.

you were the one that said "Population numbers honestly aren't relevant to this discussion", so you have to argue that with yourself. Economy of the US is bigger because they have more population than lets say Switzerland, if you remove that variable that would never be the case.
Still the population with more purchasing power in the planet claim is a factual lie.

edited for clarifications

 

[Bobaganoosh]

The 9070 Red Devil I ordered from Amazon at launch came in today. They initially said it would be the next day, then it was delayed with no estimated ship date...then I contacted them and they suggested it would ship the 12th or 13th...and then they shipped it over the weekend so I got it today. It's for my brother though, so I will unfortunately have no performance data or information on that to share.

 

[AusWolf]

Would disagree with 20 series, it only really became a nice buy after 40 series dropped (the prices were still relatively high around ampere, due to.. you know), where the used prices for the 20 series were *just* right. Especially for a 2080S and 2080Ti. 2080Ti surprisingly has good value if you can get one for around ~250 USD. RDNA2 has similar value with the RX 6700XT and RX 6800XT (I actually plan on snagging a RX 6800, funnily enough)

I can imagine that RDNA 3 will also reach that level in the future. Ampere struggles in value due to vram but the 3070 has been popular for used for a long time.

Fair enough. The only reason I have good memories of the 20-series is because that's when the crypto boom happened, and I could swap my 5700 XT for a 2070 with about 100 quid left in my pocket.