Cryptocoin Value and Market Trend Discussion

[lexluthermiester]

I was expecting more of a blood bath tbh...

This news is hours old and half the world still needs to wake up..

 

[Metroid]

This is looking much like 2013 and that is when china banned btc for the first time and after that btc crashed more than 90%, in 2017 same thing but a bit later on.

"In 2013, China's central bank barred financial institutions from handling bitcoin (BTC, -5.97%)transactions, according to a notice from China Securities Regulatory Commission.

And then again in 2017, the central bank in China declared initial coin offerings as illegal, which caused bitcoin's price to fall."

China Reiterates Crypto Bans From 2013 and 2017

Regulators cite the dangers of speculative trading.

www.coindesk.com

This will only get worse, yesterday a renowned investor said that when btc gets too big then governments might ban btc and cryptos in a chain reaction, right now only communists countries will likely do it, most likely chinese allies.

Never leave 100% of your money in crypto, if in doubt then sell 70% and stay with 30%. The crash will come but is hard to know when as there are too many bulltraps.

 

[sepheronx]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pugq7m

 

[R0H1T]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pugq7m

Yes & I say it's still a scam!

 

[lexluthermiester]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pugq7m

That is just a sad statement. I mean really, you're citing Reddit. So let's help you with things, shall we?

China's top regulators ban crypto trading and mining, sending bitcoin tumbling

China's most powerful regulators on Friday intensified a crackdown on cryptocurrencies with a blanket ban on all crypto transactions and mining, hitting bitcoin and other major coins and pressuring crypto and blockchain-related stocks.

www.reuters.com

 

[ThrashZone]

HI,
Could be considered more manipulation too without Musk lol
Like all stocks buy low sell high applies.

 

[Vayra86]

Pump & Dump + forever in beta.

I think thats the state of crypto now, in ten years, and as it has always been. As long as there are believers, it will keep going. Im playing along now too, just for giggles. There is no sense to be found...

 

[sepheronx]

Pump & Dump + forever in beta.

I think thats the state of crypto now, in ten years, and as it has always been. As long as there are believers, it will keep going. Im playing along now too, just for giggles. There is no sense to be found...

If you wanna play, try Ravencoin lite. Maybe you will make it rich off of one GPU and you can buy me that island I always wanted.

 

[R-T-B]

Which is like the 3rd time this year.

Yep. They are reiterating a ruling from 2013 and people are jumping all over it like it's news.

Friggin lol.

Pump & Dump + forever in beta

Dumps are getting less dramatic massively. If you ask me, it's showing much more maturity than last time.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Yep. They are reiterating a ruling from 2013 and people are jumping all over it like it's news.

Friggin lol.

Nope, this is a new thing as shown here:

China's top regulators ban crypto trading and mining, sending bitcoin tumbling

China's most powerful regulators on Friday intensified a crackdown on cryptocurrencies with a blanket ban on all crypto transactions and mining, hitting bitcoin and other major coins and pressuring crypto and blockchain-related stocks.

www.reuters.com

Pay careful attention to the wording and the date of the article.

Can we stop with the whining and disinformation?

 

[R-T-B]

Can we stop with the whining and disinformation?

Aparently not. You are citing an article without an original source to support it's claims.

I've provided an original source in the other thread. Crossposting here:

How about the opening paragraph?

I'd advise going to the horses mouth.

For those not interested in dealing with weird central bank website, and wanting the original text of the 2013 ruling to translate themselves, here it is:

中国人民银行等五部委发布《关于防范比特币风险的通知》

字号 大 中 小 文章来源：沟通交流 2013-12-05 15:39:14
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为保护社会公众的财产权益，保障人民币的法定货币地位，防范洗钱风险，维护金融稳定，中国人民银行、工业和信息化部、中国银行业监督管理委员会、中国证券监督管理委员会、中国保险监督管理委员会日前联合印发了《中国人民银行 工业和信息化部 中国银行业监督管理委员会 中国证券监督管理委员会 中国保险监督管理委员会关于防范比特币风险的通知》（银发〔2013〕289号，以下简称“《通知》”）。

《通知》明确了比特币的性质，认为比特币不是由货币当局发行，不具有法偿性与强制性等货币属性，并不是真正意义的货币。从性质上看，比特币是一种特定的虚拟商品，不具有与货币等同的法律地位，不能且不应作为货币在市场上流通使用。但是，比特币交易作为一种互联网上的商品买卖行为，普通民众在自担风险的前提下拥有参与的自由。

《通知》要求，现阶段，各金融机构和支付机构不得以比特币为产品或服务定价，不得买卖或作为中央对手买卖比特币，不得承保与比特币相关的保险业务或将比特币纳入保险责任范围，不得直接或间接为客户提供其他与比特币相关的服务，包括：为客户提供比特币登记、交易、清算、结算等服务；接受比特币或以比特币作为支付结算工具；开展比特币与人民币及外币的兑换服务；开展比特币的储存、托管、抵押等业务；发行与比特币相关的金融产品；将比特币作为信托、基金等投资的投资标的等。

《通知》规定，作为比特币主要交易平台的比特币互联网站，应当根据《中华人民共和国电信条例》和《互联网信息服务管理办法》的规定，依法在电信管理机构备案。同时，针对比特币具有较高的洗钱风险和被犯罪分子利用的风险，《通知》要求相关机构按照《中华人民共和国反洗钱法》的要求，切实履行客户身份识别、可疑交易报告等法定反洗钱义务，切实防范与比特币相关的洗钱风险。

为了避免因比特币等虚拟商品借“虚拟货币”之名过度炒作，损害公众利益和人民币的法定货币地位，《通知》要求金融机构、支付机构在日常工作中应当正确使用货币概念，注重加强对社会公众货币知识的教育，将正确认识货币、正确看待虚拟商品和虚拟货币、理性投资、合理控制投资风险、维护自身财产安全等观念纳入金融知识普及活动的内容，引导公众树立正确的货币观念和投资理念。

今后，人民银行将基于自身职责，继续密切关注比特币的动向和相关风险。（完）

附件：

中国人民银行 工业和信息化部 中国银行业监督管理委员会

中国证券监督管理委员会 中国保险监督管理委员会

关于防范比特币风险的通知

近期，一种通过特定计算机程序计算出来的所谓“比特币”（Bitcoin）在国际上引起了广泛关注，国内也有一些机构和个人借机炒作比特币及与比特币相关的产品。为保护社会公众的财产权益，保障人民币的法定货币地位，防范洗钱风险，维护金融稳定，依据《中华人民共和国中国人民银行法》、《中华人民共和国反洗钱法》、《中华人民共和国商业银行法》、《中华人民共和国电信条例》等有关法律法规，现将有关事项通知如下：

一、正确认识比特币的属性

比特币具有没有集中发行方、总量有限、使用不受地域限制和匿名性等四个主要特点。虽然比特币被称为“货币”，但由于其不是由货币当局发行，不具有法偿性与强制性等货币属性，并不是真正意义的货币。从性质上看，比特币应当是一种特定的虚拟商品，不具有与货币等同的法律地位，不能且不应作为货币在市场上流通使用。

二、各金融机构和支付机构不得开展与比特币相关的业务

现阶段，各金融机构和支付机构不得以比特币为产品或服务定价，不得买卖或作为中央对手买卖比特币，不得承保与比特币相关的保险业务或将比特币纳入保险责任范围，不得直接或间接为客户提供其他与比特币相关的服务，包括：为客户提供比特币登记、交易、清算、结算等服务；接受比特币或以比特币作为支付结算工具；开展比特币与人民币及外币的兑换服务；开展比特币的储存、托管、抵押等业务；发行与比特币相关的金融产品；将比特币作为信托、基金等投资的投资标的等。

三、加强对比特币互联网站的管理

依据《中华人民共和国电信条例》和《互联网信息服务管理办法》，提供比特币登记、交易等服务的互联网站应当在电信管理机构备案。

电信管理机构根据相关管理部门的认定和处罚意见，依法对违法比特币互联网站予以关闭。

四、防范比特币可能产生的洗钱风险

中国人民银行各分支机构应当密切关注比特币及其他类似的具有匿名、跨境流通便利等特征的虚拟商品的动向及态势，认真研判洗钱风险，研究制定有针对性的防范措施。各分支机构应当将在辖区内依法设立并提供比特币登记、交易等服务的机构纳入反洗钱监管，督促其加强反洗钱监测。

提供比特币登记、交易等服务的互联网站应切实履行反洗钱义务，对用户身份进行识别，要求用户使用实名注册，登记姓名、身份证号码等信息。各金融机构、支付机构以及提供比特币登记、交易等服务的互联网站如发现与比特币及其他虚拟商品相关的可疑交易，应当立即向中国反洗钱监测分析中心报告，并配合中国人民银行的反洗钱调查活动；对于发现使用比特币进行诈骗、赌博、洗钱等犯罪活动线索的，应及时向公安机关报案。

五、加强对社会公众货币知识的教育及投资风险提示

各部门和金融机构、支付机构在日常工作中应当正确使用货币概念，注重加强对社会公众货币知识的教育，将正确认识货币、正确看待虚拟商品和虚拟货币、理性投资、合理控制投资风险、维护自身财产安全等观念纳入金融知识普及活动的内容，引导社会公众树立正确的货币观念和投资理念。

各金融监管机构可以根据本通知制定相关实施细则。

请中国人民银行上海总部，各分行、营业管理部、省会（首府）城市中心支行将本通知转发至辖区内各地方性金融机构和支付机构。本通知执行过程中发现的新情况、新问题，请及时向中国人民银行报告。

联系人：张念念，联系电话：010-66194489

中国人民银行

工业和信息化部

银 监 会

证 监 会

保 监 会

2013年12月3日
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If anyone can find a more up to date version stating something actually new, post it.

In english courtesy google translate:

Five ministries and commissions including the People's Bank of China issued the "Notice on Preventing Bitcoin Risks"

Font Size Big Middle Small Article Source: Communication 2013-12-05 15:39:14
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In order to protect the public’s property rights and interests, protect the RMB’s legal currency status, prevent money laundering risks, and maintain financial stability, the People’s Bank of China, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, China Banking Regulatory Commission, China Securities Regulatory Commission, and China Insurance Regulatory Commission The committee recently jointly issued the "Notice of the People's Bank of China, Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, China Banking Regulatory Commission, China Securities Regulatory Commission, and China Insurance Regulatory Commission on Preventing Bitcoin Risks" (Yinfa [2013] No. 289, hereinafter referred to as "" notify"").

The "Notice" clarified the nature of Bitcoin, stating that Bitcoin is not issued by the monetary authority, has no monetary properties such as legal compensation and compulsion, and is not a currency in its true sense. In terms of nature, Bitcoin is a specific virtual commodity, which does not have the same legal status as currency, and cannot and should not be used as currency in the market. However, Bitcoin trading is a kind of commodity buying and selling behavior on the Internet, and ordinary people have the freedom to participate under the premise of their own risk.

The "Notice" requires that at this stage, financial institutions and payment institutions shall not use bitcoin as a price for products or services, shall not buy or sell bitcoins as a central counterparty, shall not underwrite insurance business related to bitcoins or include bitcoins in insurance liabilities Scope, it is not allowed to directly or indirectly provide customers with other services related to bitcoin, including: providing customers with bitcoin registration, trading, clearing, settlement and other services; accepting bitcoin or using bitcoin as a payment and settlement tool; developing bitcoin and Renminbi and foreign currency exchange services; carry out bitcoin storage, custody, mortgage and other businesses; issue bitcoin-related financial products; use bitcoin as the investment target of trusts, funds, etc.

The "Notice" stipulates that the Bitcoin Internet site, which is the main Bitcoin trading platform, should be filed with the telecommunications management agency in accordance with the provisions of the "People's Republic of China Telecommunications Regulations" and the "Internet Information Service Management Measures". At the same time, in view of the high money laundering risk of Bitcoin and the risk of being exploited by criminals, the "Notice" requires relevant institutions to effectively perform statutory anti-money laundering such as customer identification and suspicious transaction reports in accordance with the requirements of the Anti-Money Laundering Law of the People's Republic of China. Obligations to effectively prevent money laundering risks related to Bitcoin.

In order to avoid excessive speculation of virtual commodities such as Bitcoin in the name of “virtual currency”, which will damage the public interest and the status of RMB as legal tender, the “Notice” requires financial institutions and payment institutions to correctly use the concept of currency in their daily work, focusing on strengthening the The education of the social public currency knowledge includes the concepts of correct understanding of currency, correct view of virtual goods and virtual currency, rational investment, reasonable control of investment risks, and maintenance of their own property security into the content of financial knowledge popularization activities, and guide the public to establish correct currency concepts and concepts. Investment concept.

In the future, the People's Bank of China will continue to pay close attention to Bitcoin's trends and related risks based on its own responsibilities. (over)

Appendix:

People's Bank of China Ministry of Industry and Information Technology China Banking Regulatory Commission

China Securities Regulatory Commission China Insurance Regulatory Commission

Notice on preventing Bitcoin risks

Recently, a so-called "Bitcoin" calculated by a specific computer program has attracted widespread attention internationally. There are also some domestic institutions and individuals taking the opportunity to hype Bitcoin and Bitcoin-related products. In order to protect the property rights of the public, protect the legal currency status of the renminbi, prevent money laundering risks, and maintain financial stability, in accordance with the "People's Bank of China Law", "The People's Republic of China Anti-Money Laundering Law", and "The Commercial Bank Law of the People's Republic of China" ”, “People’s Republic of China Telecommunications Regulations” and other relevant laws and regulations, the relevant matters are hereby notified as follows:

1. Correctly understand the attributes of Bitcoin

Bitcoin has four main characteristics: no centralized issuer, limited total amount, unrestricted use by region, and anonymity. Although Bitcoin is called "currency", because it is not issued by the monetary authority, it has no monetary properties such as legal compensation and compulsion, so it is not a currency in its true sense. In terms of nature, Bitcoin should be a specific virtual commodity, which does not have the same legal status as currency, and cannot and should not be used as currency in the market.

2. Financial institutions and payment institutions must not carry out Bitcoin-related businesses

At this stage, financial institutions and payment institutions are not allowed to set prices for products or services in Bitcoin, cannot buy or sell Bitcoin as a central counterparty, cannot underwrite Bitcoin-related insurance business or include Bitcoin in the scope of insurance liability, and cannot directly or Indirectly provide customers with other bitcoin-related services, including: providing customers with bitcoin registration, trading, clearing, settlement and other services; accepting bitcoin or using bitcoin as a payment and settlement tool; conducting bitcoin exchanges with RMB and foreign currencies Services; carry out businesses such as storage, custody, and mortgage of bitcoin; issue bitcoin-related financial products; use bitcoin as the investment target of investment in trusts, funds, etc.

3. Strengthen the management of Bitcoin Internet sites

In accordance with the "Regulations of the People's Republic of China on Telecommunications" and the "Administrative Measures on Internet Information Services", Internet sites that provide services such as bitcoin registration and transactions should be filed with the telecommunications management agency.

The telecommunications management agency shall shut down illegal Bitcoin Internet sites in accordance with the determination and punishment opinions of the relevant management departments.

Fourth, prevent the possible money laundering risk of Bitcoin

The branches of the People's Bank of China should pay close attention to the trends and trends of Bitcoin and other similar virtual commodities with the characteristics of anonymity and cross-border circulation, earnestly study and judge money laundering risks, and study and formulate targeted preventive measures. All branches shall include institutions established in their jurisdictions according to law and provide services such as bitcoin registration and transactions into anti-money laundering supervision, and urge them to strengthen anti-money laundering monitoring.

Internet sites that provide services such as bitcoin registration and transactions should earnestly fulfill their anti-money laundering obligations, identify users, require users to register with real names, and register names, ID numbers and other information. Financial institutions, payment institutions, and Internet sites that provide services such as bitcoin registration and transactions, if they find suspicious transactions related to bitcoin and other virtual goods, they should immediately report to the China Anti-Money Laundering Monitoring and Analysis Center, and cooperate with the People’s Bank of China’s anti-money laundering monitoring and analysis center. Money laundering investigation activities; if you find clues to criminal activities such as fraud, gambling, money laundering, etc., using Bitcoin, you should report the case to the public security organ in time.

5. Strengthen the education of the public currency knowledge and reminder of investment risks

Various departments, financial institutions, and payment institutions should correctly use the concept of currency in their daily work, pay attention to strengthening the education of public currency knowledge, and will correctly understand currency, treat virtual goods and virtual currency correctly, make rational investment, reasonably control investment risks, and maintain Concepts such as the security of one's own property are incorporated into the content of financial knowledge popularization activities to guide the public to establish correct currency concepts and investment concepts.

All financial regulatory agencies may formulate relevant implementation rules based on this notice.

The Shanghai headquarters of the People's Bank of China, all branches, business management departments, and central sub-branches of provincial capitals (capitals) cities are requested to forward this notice to local financial institutions and payment institutions within their jurisdiction. Please report to the People's Bank of China in time for new situations and new problems discovered during the implementation of this notice.

Contact: Zhang Niannian, Tel: 010-66194489

People's Bank of China

Ministry of Industry and Information Technology

China Banking Regulatory Commission

Securities Regulatory Commission

China Insurance Regulatory Commission

December 3, 2013

To be clear, I'm open to the possiblilty that the ban has been broadened but I've seen no actual state text saying so, which leaves me highly skeptical. They seem to be restating the old ruling and the typical media misunderstanding of what's what with crypto seems to be the issue here.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Aparently not. You are citing an article without an original source to support it's claims.

Go talk to Reuters or you can go looking for the Chinese government announcement yourself. Until then, the Reuters report is valid.

I've provided an original source in the other thread.

The info you posted in the other thread IS an old report, the existence of which does NOT invalidate current events.

 

[R-T-B]

The info you posted in the other thread IS an old report,

So find a newer one. I can't. Your sources provide NO reports except vague references to the one I linked, and various other sources mention a "restatement" of the ban, which I find far more credible given what's coming from the central bank.

Forbes's take:

Crypto Markets Wipe Out $150 Billion In Value Within Hours Of China’s Latest ‘Bitcoin Ban’—What’s Next?

The plunge erased virtually all of the gains since a Monday selloff triggered the crypto market's worst decline in weeks.

www.forbes.com

In yet another testament to the nascent market’s extreme volatility, cryptocurrency prices tumbled Friday morning after China’s central bank reiterated a sweeping ban on digital asset transactions, prompting some experts to warn the harsh rhetoric may encourage more nations to take similar measures, while others pointed out that prices have quickly recovered from such announcements in the past.

Seems Forbes is confused too. You should write them. Maybe the central bank too.

Go talk to Reuters or you can go looking for the Chinese government announcement yourself.

Did you miss it above? There isn't a newer one. Just restatements of it.

In the end it doesn't matter really, because bitcoin fled China earlier this year. Thus, it will hurt the price, but the impact will be short lived because no real money resides there.

This is china's role in bitcoin's price:

This one today,

2017,

2013

Probably more. tl;dr you can only ban something once. They never "reallowed it." They just enjoy crashing the market.

EDIT: I did some more reading.

It seems while mining is still legal TECHNICALLY you can't access the funds from it without breaking the law. So why do it? It's basically like saying hotrods are legal but you can only run them in neutral, suddenly no one cares.

This is probably where the confusion comes from with me and @lexluthermiester. It's a case of it being technically legal, but practically illegal. No one would bother. Thus, the news isn't really all that far off, if you can even say it is. It's a case of me being extremely technically acurate (almost to a fault), vs reality of the situation. I fall for that sometimes.

 

[trog100]

all in all an interesting day.. first of all an unexpected dump.. finishing with an unexpected recovery.. its not fully back to where it was at the beginning of the day but its well on its way..

one thing is for sure.. when crypto takes a hit this this thread livens up in a boringly predicable way.. he he he

trog

 

[Vayra86]

Yep. They are reiterating a ruling from 2013 and people are jumping all over it like it's news.

Friggin lol.


Dumps are getting less dramatic massively. If you ask me, it's showing much more maturity than last time.

Much more but still so far away from anything you could call stability for use as currency... I do agree. Have we had the highest peak / dump last summer perhaps?

At the same time if you look at the coins themselves, the tech is still moving forward and still makes older coins less interesting, if anything perhaps that momentum is even getting bigger as coins also start working as frameworks. Its really a copy of platform based economics. And every coin wants to pull an App Store success.

Looking at Cardano for example... that is why I think and say Forever in beta. New Coins are actually iterative development with live assets. When might that stop? We have no idea...

 

[trog100]

well not a lot happening in the crypto world or this thread.. bitcoin seem to be hovering between 41 and 42K.. the "experts" seems to think these are critical levels.. a break up or a break down is anticipated.. sadly they havnt a clue which way is most likely.. he he

i think the same applies to the stock markets.. they could go up or they could go down.. nobody knows.. he he

trog

 

[lexluthermiester]

Looks like things are holding steady for a few days.

 

[trog100]

bitcoin is back up near 45K and the stock markets are all in the red..

i am a bit surprised i would have thought stock markets would have to be back in the green before crypto could go up again but maybe my thinking was wrong..

trog

ps.. a couple of hours later.. up near 47K now.. its ether gonna crash back down a few K or its up up and away.. i am gonna go for up up and away but i could be wrong.. he he

 

[LFaWolf]

Probably due to cash inflow from people fleeing the stock market after an atrocious week and the expired $3B Bitcoin options last week. I don’t see Bitcoin going past $50k in October because I think there will be people that bought near $41k selling.

 

[lexluthermiester]

bitcoin is back up near 45K and the stock markets are all in the red..

i am a bit surprised i would have thought stock markets would have to be back in the green before crypto could go up again but maybe my thinking was wrong..

trog

ps.. a couple of hours later.. up near 47K now.. its ether gonna crash back down a few K or its up up and away.. i am gonna go for up up and away but i could be wrong.. he he

Yeah, it seems safe to conclude that the cryptocoin market and the stock market are just not going along in harmony with each other.

 

[Liquid Cool]

The Dow is up 600? At least in the US...I see the trend continues.

Light resistance here in the 47's and stiffer resistance at 50k, then 60k. I'd personally like to see a secondary peak put in here sooner than later aka now, or over the next few days(with the first peak being 9.06.21).



From my viewpoint...both markets have been signaling they'd like to explode/implode together.

You know my vote...

Best,

Liquid Cool

 

[trog100]

i think bitcoin was being held back now its been let loose.. i see no other explanation for its effortless 12% price increase over the day..

all very strange..

trog

 

[trog100]

bitcoin is now moving sideways at around 48K or just below.. i am expecting a move up to 51K soon but that is just my own opinion..

eth is doing a tad better and is now at 3400.. a slight movement to the upside is going on but not by much..

crypto is looking good so there will not be much activity in this thread until some bad news arrives..

gpu mining isnt as profitable as it was so ebay gpu prices have dropped accordingly.. i dont think they will go much lower though..

trog

 

[Rithsom]

As an electrical engineering student, I can't help but mention that the graph of BTC's value is starting to resemble a certain transient response.

Specifically, the value of BTC over the past year looks similar to the voltage of a capacitor with respect to time in an underdamped, series RLC circuit. When a DC voltage is applied instantly to the circuit, the voltage across the cap climbs to a peak value, then drops somewhat, and eventually reaches a stable value.

Maybe BTC will also reach a stable value some day?

 

[Metroid]

i think bitcoin was being held back now its been let loose.. i see no other explanation for its effortless 12% price increase over the day..

all very strange..

trog

All manipulation, manipulators know they have just one shot and they need to pump this hard and then crash this hard, prior bear market is always like this, last chance to pump high and then dump hard and then quit the market altogether and return in few years with lots of promise of returns plus with all the new printed money, lies, media and so on, reason crypto is all about cycles, if you think long term you lose in this game because playing the short term will earn up to 1000x more than just hold long term, because buying the crashes and selling high and so on is better than hoping for the best and dreaming this will only go up.