CSGO stuttering every 5 seconds mystery (ex. 5800x3d stutter topic)

[Mussels]

hello everyone. I am back and still yet to solve the cs go issue.

I play warzone and cs2, and those games stutter just a portion of what cs go does. But they still DO and its annoying

None of the new drivers seem to fixed this issue.. I am planning to move to intel some time but meanwhile I figured I'd have another go at this.

I was thinking mby the ssd could have some kind of affect on this?

Here is a vid with stutters and drive graph from the task manager. Should write speeds jump like that?

Does anyone have ideas?

Are you running a Gsync display, with it enabled for windowed applications?
In windowed mode like that you cannot disable Vsync, so unless you're exactly at your refresh rate or a direct multiple of it, you're going to see stutter.

Seeing it sitting at 164FPS and dropping to 150s when you move around makes me think you're hitting 2 frame render queues at 164/165 (doubled input latency) and then when you move around the usage is spiking enough to go back to a single frame so you're getting a lot of input hitching (more so if that's a high refresh rate mouse - I saw the steelseries software appear in the CPU usage)

throw in the visual stutter you'd see and we wont in a recording of the FPS dropping below the refresh rate, and that'd probably be quite unpleasant.



To explain the math here, you're seeing 6ms render times - per frame.
If you hit your refresh rate with Vsync on (which can NOT be disabled in windowed mode, only fullscreen exclusive) your CPU has frames ready and the GPU is paused, so your system waits.
That usually means an extra two frames, so you could have a frame ready in 6ms - but then it has to wait 3 monitor refresh cycles to be displayed (6.06ms at 165Hz) - so it's showing you 18ms old images at 165FPS, but at 160FPS with Vysnc they're 6ms old... and forced to wait for the monitor to be ready, pushing them right back up to 12/18ms old.
That leads to an input lag stutter AND a visual stutter, as the amount of delay keeps flopping around.


You can either run:
1. Fullscreen exclusive mode, Vsync off (No render delay or input lag, but visual tearing)
2. Gsync display with an FPS cap 2-3FPS under refresh rate (No input lag or tearing)

Even running 59FPS on a 60Hz display leads to this - that's one stutter a second, for the duration of one display cycle.
As each frame gets more and more out of sync with the display they're either held for longer and longer until they math up again (the input delay) or you get something rendered after the monitor has started displaying the prior frame so it cuts them together with tearing.


Nothing else will solve the problems of an old DX9 engine in a modern PC.


Edit: Ahah, blurbusters had it.
Even if you skip above, remember that without fullscreen exclusive you're forced to Vsync on. This is why VRR is a big deal.

With Vsync on, the frames are just forced to wait and arrive erratically with a varying delay. Vsync itself isnt the problem here, it's being in windowed mode that's the problem - it's rendered as part of your desktop in sync with everything else at a fixed refresh rate and 2 frame ahead queue.

 

[tonypivo]

SSD?

samsung 980 1tb

Are you running a Gsync display, with it enabled for windowed applications?
In windowed mode like that you cannot disable Vsync, so unless you're exactly at your refresh rate or a direct multiple of it, you're going to see stutter.

Seeing it sitting at 164FPS and dropping to 150s when you move around makes me think you're hitting 2 frame render queues at 164/165 (doubled input latency) and then when you move around the usage is spiking enough to go back to a single frame so you're getting a lot of input hitching (more so if that's a high refresh rate mouse - I saw the steelseries software appear in the CPU usage)

throw in the visual stutter you'd see and we wont in a recording of the FPS dropping below the refresh rate, and that'd probably be quite unpleasant.



To explain the math here, you're seeing 6ms render times - per frame.
If you hit your refresh rate with Vsync on (which can NOT be disabled in windowed mode, only fullscreen exclusive) your CPU has frames ready and the GPU is paused, so your system waits.
That usually means an extra two frames, so you could have a frame ready in 6ms - but then it has to wait 3 monitor refresh cycles to be displayed (6.06ms at 165Hz) - so it's showing you 18ms old images at 165FPS, but at 160FPS with Vysnc they're 6ms old... and forced to wait for the monitor to be ready, pushing them right back up to 12/18ms old.
That leads to an input lag stutter AND a visual stutter, as the amount of delay keeps flopping around.


You can either run:
1. Fullscreen exclusive mode, Vsync off (No render delay or input lag, but visual tearing)
2. Gsync display with an FPS cap 2-3FPS under refresh rate (No input lag or tearing)

Even running 59FPS on a 60Hz display leads to this - that's one stutter a second, for the duration of one display cycle.
As each frame gets more and more out of sync with the display they're either held for longer and longer until they math up again (the input delay) or you get something rendered after the monitor has started displaying the prior frame so it cuts them together with tearing.


Nothing else will solve the problems of an old DX9 engine in a modern PC.


Edit: Ahah, blurbusters had it.
Even if you skip above, remember that without fullscreen exclusive you're forced to Vsync on. This is why VRR is a big deal.
View attachment 314145
With Vsync on, the frames are just forced to wait and arrive erratically with a varying delay. Vsync itself isnt the problem here, it's being in windowed mode that's the problem - it's rendered as part of your desktop in sync with everything else at a fixed refresh rate and 2 frame ahead queue.

Yeah, you are correct, that video was me messing around, thinking it was somehow related to SSD speeds.

I usually run fullscreen exclusive.

Also, these stutters happen whether i have gsync or vsync, full screen or non fullscreen, clean windows install or not etc.

 

[Eskimonster]

Type "Exploit Protection" into the search box in win 10.

Set Control Flow Guard (CFG) to Off by default. Restart and test.

Also you can set the GPU to MSI mode with High interrupt setting and it'll change the GPU from queue polling to direct.
Get msi tool from here, run as admin, check the box for your gpu if it isn't already, set priority to high, apply in top right and restart.

MSI_util_v3

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.

www.mediafire.com

Can´t you just add the processes used by CS-GO to the whitelist in CFG ?

 

[oobymach]

Can´t you just add the processes used by CS-GO to the whitelist in CFG ?

Yes and any other game can be added too but for a quick fix just disable it. There are a bunch of things that slow windows down that is only one of them.

 

[natr0n]

Idk if anyone recommended yet.

Disable nvidia HD audio in control panel

That is one cause of stutter.

 

[tonypivo]

Idk if anyone recommended yet.

Disable nvidia HD audio in control panel

That is one cause of stutter.

Did not work

 

[theouto]

What's your CPU voltage? Make sure it's below 1.35v, I remember this gave me stuttering issues when I first set up my pc (also, check this from your BIOS, not with other tools)

1.25v should be just about fine

 

[tonypivo]

What's your CPU voltage? Make sure it's below 1.35v, I remember this gave me stuttering issues when I first set up my pc (also, check this from your BIOS, not with other tools)

1.25v should be just about fine

Should i change the CPU VDD18 voltage? I have a gigabyte bios, not sure what do i change

 

[theouto]

I am not too knowledgable on how GIGABYTE's BIOS works, would you mind telling me what specific motherboard you are running?

https://www.gigabyte.com/FileUpload/Global/multimedia/2/file/518/939.pdf

in case it helps, here is a x470 guide to overclocking from gigabyte, which might help you understand these values better
VDD18 also appears to default to 1.8, which could be the most stable point?

Hoping someone else can chime in here, as I don't have the most complete knowledge in this topic

 

[tonypivo]

I am not too knowledgable on how GIGABYTE's BIOS works, would you mind telling me what specific motherboard you are running?

https://www.gigabyte.com/FileUpload/Global/multimedia/2/file/518/939.pdf

in case it helps, here is a x470 guide to overclocking from gigabyte, which might help you understand these values better
VDD18 also appears to default to 1.8, which could be the most stable point?

Hoping someone else can chime in here, as I don't have the most complete knowledge in this topic

b550 gaming x v1

This is what I have. Cpu voltage says 1.0 for some reason

 

[theouto]

b550 gaming x v1

This is what I have. Cpu voltage says 1.0 for some reason

View attachment 314537

Perhaps set it to 1.1 or 1.15?

AMD's 'Non-Overclockable' Ryzen 7 5800X3D Boosted to 4.74GHz

Thanks, BCLK overclocking!

www.tomshardware.com

This toms hardware article contains more information which could prove useful for knowing the limits of the 5800X3D

 

[tonypivo]

Have been looking at the capframex graphs and see that the frametime jumps (stutters) most of the time happen together withj the cpu load and gpu load movement. Could this mean anything?

 

[zoulztealer]

Have been looking at the capframex graphs and see that the frametime jumps (stutters) most of the time happen together withj the cpu load and gpu load movement. Could this mean anything?

best chances for you is when you try to run csgo in opengl from nobara linux for example if you really want to play it. you will have no chances on improvement in dx9 under windows. opengl will give you way better options, compatibility, stability and performance. i dont understand why they are not simply making opengl available in csgo for windows. if i remember correctly it used to work somewhere in the past and it looks at some point they have broken or disabled it.

every game will stutter until everything is loaded and cached. if you play games that run the same content all the time like dota2 or csgo for example after a few matches or hours of playing there shouldnt be any stutters nomore because everything has been loaded in the cache and ram. the longer you run a game the less it should stutter but there may be situations that will always cause a little bit of noticeable or only measurable stuttering. it depends on what kind of stuttering it is and if its natural or bad. if theres constant stuttering as in your video or in my experience it only shows the game is not optimized enough and theres nothing wrong with your hardware. your hardware is simply too powerful for that old game. you would have to downgrade several generations to match csgos requirements like make an extra dx9 gaming pc. but like i said the best solution for you is something like nobara linux with opengl. also in linux the performance can be extremely good especially if the games have native linux clients like csgo does. in that case i would always prefer run the game from a well optimized linux like nobara than on windows. but even windows games can run better on linux with steam proton. its definitely worth a try because now you can run just any game very easily.

you should also turn off windows game mode because it can cause stuttering (use process lasso instead) and enable hags which makes things even more smoother. also like i said before enable msix interrupts for your gpu and other devices with msiutilv3 or in nvcleanstall there are advanced options for that. in nvcleanstall you can install the minimal configuration of driver, physx, hdmi or usb-c and nvidia control panel of course which should be added automatically from windows store or the installer. if you want to add shadow play or other items they will have depencies on other packages and update them as well. the performance will be much better if you install the driver with nvcleanstall and custom options than with the official one (less stuttering the less items are installed).

also enable numa node(s) in bios for cpu. if you run your game over an ethernet chip like intel or some wifi cards you can also offload the games / os netcode work from the cpu to the network chip.

disabling multi plane overlay can also fix stuttering and other issues:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/yvyqc7

Windows: Line-Based vs. Message Signaled-Based Interrupts. MSI tool.

... or another attempt to improve latencies Little bit of theory: ***** From "Windows Internals" by Mark Russinovich, David A. Solomon, Alex...

forums.guru3d.com

max fps, average fps or drops and variations in fps and how cap frame does interpret it is not the only important thing. you can have high fps values but the game can still be choppy. theres is something else to games that make them feel really smooth and you cant recognize it from the numbers alone. more imporant than fps is that display and gpu are in perfect sync and so the picture will appear butter smooth. its also important to report these kind of performance issues / bugs to the game developer. usually over time anything can be fixed especially it is well documented in the bug report.

try to play from linux and try to run some well optimized games like dota 2 - from either widnows or linux - you can just spectate a match ingame, test different apis (dx, vulkan and opengl) resident evil 4 demo or war thunder which are very well optimized games in terms of performance and hardware support. enable nvidia reflex on (without boost), disable vsync ingame and enable / force sync by the driver in nvidia control panel (always on). if these games run smooth for you everything is fine.

 

[..0]

is not this thread out of date now? cs2 is right around the corner.

 

[theouto]

Would still be good to know why the problem is happening no? Specially when nothing seems to fix it

 

[ARF]

Would still be good to know why the problem is happening no? Specially when nothing seems to fix it

Given intel's (and nvidia's, for that matter) history of bribing, I wouldn't be surprised if this is an anti-optimisation for certain AMD based setups, in order to buy intel instead.
Try with some Core i.

If the issues persist, I will take my words back

 

[Mussels]

What's your CPU voltage? Make sure it's below 1.35v, I remember this gave me stuttering issues when I first set up my pc (also, check this from your BIOS, not with other tools)

1.25v should be just about fine

No, please no. Don't alter voltages if you don't know what they do, and don't suggest things like this without a proper explanation.
Lowering CPU voltage on Ryzen CPU's caps your clock speeds - it breaks boost.

If downclocking your CPU stopped your stutter, you just have thermal issues.

Have been looking at the capframex graphs and see that the frametime jumps (stutters) most of the time happen together withj the cpu load and gpu load movement. Could this mean anything?

View attachment 314547

As an example, a mechanical hard drive can sleep and when it wakes up the entire PC is frozen until the drive reports its good to go again - and the CPU and GPU will idle during that time.
People will chase rabbit trails to find out why their GPU usage dropped and blame GPU after GPU, without realising that's a side effect and not the cause

If a CPU thermal throttles it'll downclock, and while downclocked the same load is a higher %

This is where HWinfo is fantastic to run, so you can get all the information together


You'll notice your Max thread load was 96%, so one CPU thread did max out - 96% isnt 100% but close enough to count imo. That does imply your max FPS was CPU limited.


Why is HAGS disabled?

 

[SubSonix]

I'm sorry if this has already been covered, I did search and found no results.
Could you detail your storage please?

I registered just to ask this as I'm having similar issues, and removing my OS NVME solved them (I installed fresh on a SATA SSD to determine this)

 

[Shou Miko]

I'm sorry if this has already been covered, I did search and found no results.
Could you detail your storage please?

I registered just to ask this as I'm having similar issues, and removing my OS NVME solved them (I installed fresh on a SATA SSD to determine this)

Hmm you got a CDI of your NVME drive? Because if the nvme is in good health this shouldn't be an issue.

 

[SubSonix]

Hmm you got a CDI of your NVME drive? Because if the nvme is in good health this shouldn't be an issue.

CDI? I'm going to assume you mean CrystalDiskInfo

 

[Shou Miko]

CDI? I'm going to assume you mean CrystalDiskInfo

That's correct, if you go under function you can actually hide your serial number.

74% in health not good not critical bad.

 

[SubSonix]

Well it's hidden either way but TIL

Any suggestions?

 

[SubSonix]

I don't know how to edit my posts, but it turns out I was wrong. Installed a new Motherboard today and I'm having the same issues.

Now It's either some of my very limited software that I've installed, PSU, Monitor, or somehow Internet.

I've literally only installed Chrome, Steam, Afterburner+Rivatuner and GPU drivers.

I don't even know what other software to monitor with if It's Afterburner for example.

 

[Benjji]

I don't know how to edit my posts, but it turns out I was wrong. Installed a new Motherboard today and I'm having the same issues.

Now It's either some of my very limited software that I've installed, PSU, Monitor, or somehow Internet.

I've literally only installed Chrome, Steam, Afterburner+Rivatuner and GPU drivers.

I don't even know what other software to monitor with if It's Afterburner for example.

how long have you had this issue? i have the same cpu and have been having an issue where games do not feel smooth since around december 18th 2023. the framerate and frametimes are stable but the games themself dont feel smooth during camera panning. it feels like a microstutter. ive made my own post about this and another user said they experience the same, although they have an 5600x3d and not a 5800x3d.

 

[P4-630]

You guys don't seem to be alone...

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