for those who think 12gb vram can max out everything

[Bomby569]

That's because our focus has shifted.

It shifted away from textures to models, tessellation, lighting, shadows,

those serve no purpose if things get worst in terms of visual quality. The main complain is optimisation, and i think it's valid, we see countless examples that things could be done better at launch and they are only fixed when it's really bad and in the 1st months after launch so it makes you wonder what really could be done more in terms of optimisation
We hear about the stories of insane devs that put old systems to do things that were almost impossible, now he have devs doing the bare minimum and saying it's our fault for not buying more expensive hardware. You need a 5090 not to see pixelated n64 walls.

 

[AusWolf]

those serve no purpose if things get worst in terms of visual quality. The main complain is optimisation, and i think it's valid, we see countless examples that things could be done better at launch and they are only fixed when it's really bad and in the 1st months after launch so it makes you wonder what really could be done more in terms of optimisation
We hear about the stories of insane devs that put old systems to do things that were almost impossible, now he have devs doing the bare minimum and saying it's our fault for not buying more expensive hardware

Exactly. I meant, our focus has shifted away from meaningful differences to miniscule details. Of course this all originates from game devs (and hardware manufacturers - one in particular), but we're at fault too. Why do we have threads here arguing about the usefulness of upscaling? Or the beauty of ray tracing? Who gives a damn, honestly?

 

[Bomby569]

Exactly. I meant, our focus has shifted away from meaningful differences to miniscule details. Of course this all originates from game devs (and hardware manufacturers - one in particular), but we're at fault too. Why do we have threads here arguing about the usefulness of upscaling? Or the beauty of ray tracing? Who gives a damn, honestly?

the rays are nice, i sometimes turn them on just to see how they look on the slide show, and i can't lie, they are nice. But everything in life is a trade off and i don't think we're making a good deal here.
The devs from Crysis talked about the game recently and how they purposefully made the game insane to run, using and abusing on taxing tech that looked good at an insane cost, this is what we have now, everyone is doing the same in 2025.

 

[Onasi]

The devs from Crysis talked about the game recently and how they purposefully made the game insane to run, using and abusing on taxing tech that looked good at an insane cost, this is what we have now, everyone is doing the same in 2025.

Nah, that’s mostly bullshit. Sure, Crysis did make use of some cutting edge graphics tech, but the main bottleneck there was (and still is) the CPU, not the GPU. They developed the game betting on the, at the time, widespread understanding that CPU ST performance will continue to rise, mostly due to constantly increasing clock speeds (Intel was touting 10 Ghz as somewhat of a target). That simply didn’t happen and the CPU evolution path went another way, towards multi-threading and many-core chips. Crysis has no MT capabilities and even today can suffer from poor performance even on modern top tier hardware due to that. It was simply a victim of a developer foreseeing the industry as going the way it just never did end up going.

 

[JustBenching]

That's not DOF, that game at launch was notorious for having a massive texture degradation, with medium looking as good as a 1997 3D game
View attachment 380692

It's just sponsored by the company that puts a lot of vram in their gpus, so it makes sense. It was this game that started the discussions about 8 and 12 gb vram not being enough. Turns out after 6 months of patching, 8 is more than enough, who would have thought

 

[BSim500]

Nah, that’s mostly bullshit.

It isn't though. Tech Report did a great deep dive on Crysis 2 showing massive over-tessellation of (unnecessary rendered) invisible underground water, etc, was horrendously poorly optimised. In a way they definitely played off the free marketing that came with "Can it Run Crysis" meme's that made the original a "benchmark game".

 

[Onasi]

@BSim500
I was talking about Crysis 1 solely. C2 and its foibles are another kettle of fish entirely.

 

[Bomby569]

Nah, that’s mostly bullshit. Sure, Crysis did make use of some cutting edge graphics tech, but the main bottleneck there was (and still is) the CPU, not the GPU.

that's not true at all, you can test it today, the game will barely use any cpu and can still max a recent gpu

 

[Assimilator]

Meanwhile the adults are playing videogames with their terrible, horrible 8GB and 10GB and 12GB GPUs and having fun.

 

[nomdeplume]

Nah, even 16Gb is clutch, the 4090 is the only futureproof GPU, and the only decent way of gaming on PC. If you can't max out everything might as well buy a console right ?

PS+ sub just to play the full game is just lame. We've lost sense of what made the unique console experience different from what is referred to as an ecosystem. Micro-focusing on top level hardware is never looking beneath the mask.

Edit: Without reading beyond your response. Clicked to latest responses and I was not surprised to see this is exactly same place everyone else drifted towards.

 

[10tothemin9volts]

it can't

2077 motocycle drive in dogtown around obelisk/heavy hearts club
4060ti 16gb vram, 5700x3d, resolution 2k
capturing software: capframex+rtss
I just can't use 12gb vram cards anymore. time to get over it.

Ty for another confirmation, bc the 4070 with its 12GB runs out of VRAM when enabling even the Medium Path Tracing (Full Ray Tracing) setting in Indiana Jones And The Great Circle.

What resolution do you mean by 2k, 1080p or 1440p?:
wikipedia.org/wiki/2K_resolution:

For television and consumer media, the dominant resolution in the same class is 1920 × 1080, [..].
..
In consumer products, 2560 × 1440 (1440p) is sometimes referred to as 2K,[13] but it and similar formats are more traditionally categorized as 2.5K resolutions.[14][15]: 102 

Either way, let's see if next year's Refresh brings 3GB modules (=no needs to use a bigger Blackwell chip, it will just have 1.5 times more VRAM) (the 5090 Laptop (256 bit bus)' 24GB VRAM might already use 3GB modules.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I made the 680 play Once Human successfully.

Not familiar with that title. When I say "Modern games" I'm referring to anything since 2020, with CP2077 being the reference to "can it run Crysis" cliche. Starfield, Hogwarts and a few others also qualify.

Dunno about you but if it works it works.

Would 100% agree with that.

Why do we have threads here arguing about the usefulness of upscaling? Or the beauty of ray tracing? Who gives a damn, honestly?

A lot of people do. I love RTRT, the effect done right really shines(pun intended). Having debates and discussions like this gives insight and input for makers to refer to and consider. Know that they lurk and they pay attention.

I was playing at 4K with my 3070Ti for like 2 years lol. It was not terrible, but it wasn't awesome

And you would have had to turn some settings down to do so, to say nothing of running dual displays. The 4070 kicked that up a notch. The RTX4000 was the first gen of cards that could be considered true 4K generation. Your 3070ti was a good card for sure, but it was still decidedly still a 1080p/1440p card.

Before anyone chimes in, yes I'm aware of and even tried the GTX 1080 & 1080ti at 4K, but to call that experience a good is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Macro Device]

CP2077 being the reference to "can it run Crysis" cliche.

Compared to games from late 2023 onwards, it's a very modest requirements game. 3060 is enough to play 1080p60 at High even without upscaling. We're talking a GPU available for 200 USD on the 2nd hand market. 3070 is even enough to play 4k60 at High with DLSS Q.

But yeah, GPUs from days before yesterday can't handle this. Not the first time, not the last one. Still remember noughties when your top dog GPU became obsolete the day the next gen had been released. Imagine the frustration of a gamer that bought a 7900 GTX for $500 (huge money for these days) to realise ONE YEAR AFTER that a 350 dollar (70% price) 8800 GT beats it by 50% in most games.

Today you can just keep your GPU for however long it physically survives.

 

[Onasi]

that's not true at all, you can test it today, the game will barely use any cpu and can still max a recent gpu

…do you not understand how CPU usage on a modern multi-core CPU is calculated? You realize that you have just contradicted yourself - the game either “barely uses CPU” (which is bad and a definite sign of a CPU bottleneck) or it can “max a recent GPU”. You physically cannot have both. And yes, Crysis will still choke quite a lot in its CPU heavy scenes like the flying mission, the tank setpiece, the big battle with the aliens - it goes on. If it could max a, say, 4080, then it would have been running at high framerate - it isn’t. It barely hits 100-ish and dips below 60 in missions I mentioned. You can see for yourself:

And before you ask - no, dropping resolution or settings wouldn’t have helped much since the issue is still the CPU. People in the comments under the video also discussed the matter.

 

[Macro Device]

They developed the game betting on the, at the time, widespread understanding that CPU ST performance will continue to rise

You reminded me of this (some episode of Fringe, alternate reality).

 

[freeagent]

And you would have had to turn some settings down to do so,

Well yeah, its only 8GB

But it mostly played FH5 with max settings, saw the rainbow road only a few times

4070Ti fixed me right up.

 

[Zazigalka]

Well yeah, its only 8GB

But it mostly played FH5 with max settings, saw the rainbow road only a few times

4070Ti fixed me right up.

I had 8G,10G,12G and 16G cards last 3 years, all at 1440p.
8G was borderline in a few fringe cases indeed, to the point where it started swappping witm ram causing stutter and fps dips, but whatever problems 8G caused, 10G fixed.

 

[cerulliber]

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5090 Founders Edition Review - The New Flagship

NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 5090 is the fastest graphics card ever released. It comes with a whopping 32 GB VRAM, and support for multi-frame generation, which achieves hundreds of FPS easily. We also managed to disassemble the card, and our review includes performance testing without upscaling or...

www.techpowerup.com

cyberpunk with dlaa & cnn is almost 16 f* gigabytes

12gb vram will be in survival mode in 2025

 

[freeagent]

Sure it will.

 

[Zazigalka]

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5090 Founders Edition Review - The New Flagship

NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 5090 is the fastest graphics card ever released. It comes with a whopping 32 GB VRAM, and support for multi-frame generation, which achieves hundreds of FPS easily. We also managed to disassemble the card, and our review includes performance testing without upscaling or...

www.techpowerup.com

cyberpunk with dlaa & cnn is almost 16 f* gigabytes

12gb vram will be in survival mode in 2025

1. At settings which are worse than native 4K RT
2. Cnn is the old one.

Cause that 4060Ti 16GB is gonna do do well at 4K DLAA with Ray Tracing

 

[Onasi]

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5090 Founders Edition Review - The New Flagship

NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 5090 is the fastest graphics card ever released. It comes with a whopping 32 GB VRAM, and support for multi-frame generation, which achieves hundreds of FPS easily. We also managed to disassemble the card, and our review includes performance testing without upscaling or...

www.techpowerup.com

cyberpunk with dlaa & cnn is almost 16 f* gigabytes

12gb vram will be in survival mode in 2025

Oh yes, unlike those banger 24 gig cards like the 3090 or 7900XT that run the game so much better than a 12 gig 4070Ti.
Oh wait…

B-bbut DLSS! Okay, sure, what about it?

Oh… it just scales linearly with GPU grunt even at 4K and even with the old CNN. Nothing to suggest 12 gigs is insufficient. Huh. How weird.

 

[cerulliber]

exactly. something it's illogically there.
spock over /s

 

[JustBenching]

I'm genuinely bewildered at the industry gaslighting surrounding this stuff.

"You need to upgrade your $500 GPU to a $1,000 GPU or your wall signs will look like this in our premium $60 modern AAA games. This is totally normal, games have always looked this way on anything less than 6GB VRAM..."

...vs...

This and this are what wall signs / displays can look like on a 27 year old game engine running at at 300fps on $70 2GB VRAM GPU's with a few hours of work by one modder in his spare time who doesn't even work in the game industry...

^ This "You need a $2,000 GPU or you deserve to have abnormally ugly games, because we refuse to do absolutely any optimisation at all anymore, and that's all your fault gamers" gaslighting is insane. Looking like this shouldn't even be a thing, not even on low on 4GB VRAM GPU's when wall posters in 1GB VRAM games like Bioshock (2007) didn't look anywhere near that bad 18 years ago (that's the original DVD-ROM version not the remaster). It's not the hardware that's "broken" here, it's the new game engines that are so overweight and overly-convoluted that 90% of game developers who license them have absolutely no clue how to use them anymore, so bad port after bad port is churned out with a concerted dishonest effort to normalize that almost psychotic level of staggering incompetence and quite literally brainwash and victim blame "Real Gamers (tm)" into thinking it's somehow "normal" and their fault for not buying 4-digit priced GPU's. Bullshit. 2000's titles turned down to Med, etc, preset very definitely didn't run 10x slower and look 10x worse at the same time vs 90's titles as some junk we're seeing today does vs 2010's games. For those who've forgotten, many UE3 titles actually ran very well on High on low-end hardware of the day without ending up an ugly smear-fest. "We can't get our games to either look right or run properly anymore" is definitely a new thing that reared it's ugly head with UE4/5 post 2015. What's needed more than ever is one almighty crash in the AAA gaming industry. Then you'll start to see better games on all GPU's, not just more manufactured artificial software degradation abused as a flagship sales pitch.

I've been getting attacks 2 years ago when I was saying it's not entirely the fault of the 8gb vram cards, it's that games are atrocious with managing resources. The best game that i've seen graphically is still Plague Tale Innocence, and that uses 5 to 7 gb at 4k maxed out

 

[droopyRO]

I did a quick test with my 4070 and yesterday's CP2077 patch, 1440p, Ultra preset, Path Tracing, DLSS set to performance 55-60 fps with no frame gen. vRAM usage ~ 10.5GB with about 7.5GB used, as indicated by RTSS overlay. So yeah, 12GB cards are still fine even in 2025 if you know what those graphical settings really do and how they impact your game performance on your hardware.

 

[Zazigalka]

tbh, the more I play the more I realize that max textures are more often a placebo at best.

this is high vs max

Imgsli

Imgsli

where did that 1.5GB go ? could it be......... nvidia's and amd's pockets ?

at least rt/pt shows actual improvements to light/shadows/reflections/surfaces/materials/coloring for the hit it takes. pushing for max textures will have you run out of vram for literally nothing in terms of visual improvements.

Imgsli

Imgsli