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Games Under-Performing, Unknown Culprit, Proves to be a Challenge

What do you think is the probable Cause?

  • Cpu

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  • Bios Configurations

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  • Drivers

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  • Graphics Card

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  • Motherboard

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  • Ram

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  • Power Supply

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  • OS-Software Related /Non-Hardware

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Some Setting or Option /Non-Hardware

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I'll work on a build later... but I'd say stick with i54690k + Cryrig H7, Z97, DDR31600+ (more RAM is better than faster RAM beyond this point in gaming from my experience, I'd go for 16GB DDR3-1600 over 8GB 1866.), a decent 650-750W PSU, a decent case (Cooler Master, Corsair, Fractal, Phanteks, etc.), add your SSD and GPU. Call it a day.

In case I find a way to do it and recreate my pc, should I use AMD? (the price is literally halved) Is there any drawback for a good gaming rig to use AMD instead of Intel? I need suggested builds to do gaming that is worth the gtx980 in case I will be able to swap PC. I could trade it with a person for money to invest in a better game rig, I will need your help for that one.
How much is my machine worth as a bundle in euros currency as (mild-used)?

Sorry for that many questions, but you know, its my way of transferring accurate information mind-to-mind.
 
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Here are my bios settings, kinda the best picture I could upload
IMG_20160130_052416.jpg
:
 
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Disable PCI MMIO and Dell Reliable Memory Technology.
 
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Disable PCI MMIO and Dell Reliable Memory Technology.
pci mmio is on small, it can be on large too, these 2 options, dell reliable memory is tested as well, as mentioned above.
Unfortunately I got no results.
 
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I think you have tried all that you are able to do. Open a new thread for build help and suggestions. Think about a new avenue maybe.
 
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There was a video on linus tech tips where they built a gaming PC from a used dual xeon server board. They had to cut off a little bit of a GTX980 with a saw to make it fit but otherwise it worked fine.

And ECC RAM should not have any meaningful effect on performance at least according to this article:
www.techspot.com/article/845-ddr3-ram-vs-ecc-memory/

So I wouldn't say that workstation or server hardware can not be used in a gaming desktop. Just not in this case as it seems.

Did you check the windows event viewer for clues OP?
 
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There was a video on linus tech tips where they built a gaming PC from a used dual xeon server board. They had to cut off a little bit of a GTX980 with a saw to make it fit but otherwise it worked fine.

And ECC RAM should not have any meaningful effect on performance at least according to this article:
www.techspot.com/article/845-ddr3-ram-vs-ecc-memory/

So I wouldn't say that workstation or server hardware can not be used in a gaming desktop. Just not in this case as it seems.

Did you check the windows event viewer for clues OP?
Of Course.

I think you have tried all that you are able to do. Open a new thread for build help and suggestions. Think about a new avenue maybe.
And what should I do with the PC I already have? trash it?
Selling it no one will buy it, and the cost is in question too. I did the math for a good gaming pc it could be around 1000e without the parts I already have. Maybe more. So its just cpu, and all those stuff. I will open a new thread temporarily to get some ideas. But this will be open as well since I dont see buying a new PC any time soon.
 

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After 6 pages, I'm rather disappointed that no one has considered looking deeper into the OP's idle usages and have continued to blame things (like ECC memory,) that wouldn't impact performance like this. This is a screenshot the OP uploaded when the machine was at idle with just Chrome open.


I could put the OP's CPU in my machine and it would feel exactly like my 3820 as it's the same thing just in Xeon form. I don't have an answer but, I do find it really odd that there are CPU usage spikes at idle on the screenshot the OP uploaded where the same spikes show up when the game is running. I find it absurd that I'm the only person who finds that a little strange and considering the OP has said that it occasionally stuttered and where the spikes are also occasional, there there seems to be a relatively strong correlation between the two. Once again, I don't know what could be causing this, it looks like it could be a Windows service doing it but, the simple fact is that it's unusual for there to be so much CPU load when the machine is seemingly idle. At idle, my CPU usage is always practically non-existent, not spiking like it does in the screenshot shown above.

@TwinDenis: I don't think your machine itself is at fault. People sometimes are a little too quick to suggest a new PC as opposed to actually reading the entire thread and thinking about the problem a little bit.
 
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by chance (no,I'm not going though 11 pages for the answer to this), have you tried a reformat/reinstall of windows without the old hard drive being connected to the PC (I see you got a SSD now). Maybe there is something on that drive that isn't suppose to be there (malware/virus dug in really deep).
 
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by chan
ce (no,I'm not going though 11 pages for the answer to this), have you tried a reformat/reinstall of windows without the old hard drive being connected to the PC (I see you got a SSD now). Maybe there is something on that drive that isn't suppose to be there (malware/virus dug in really deep).
Yes. SSD alone.
as said above 1 page before.
Tried windows7 and 10. no change. Swapped motherboard with guarantee, tried gtx770 and gtx980, Bought SSD and played from there, no antivirus or anything, clean install drivers (obviously).
Is it THAT of a problem that I run xeon instead of i7/i5? Kinda saw the specs, I have a bit better stats on that, and tried tweaking some related stuff around on the bios, various CPU states etc. Hyperthread, c-states, SpeedStep, even super fetch and all pre-fetching options, tried disabling the memory correction as well.
No idea really, this has come to be a mystery. Literally more than a year, thats why I call it tech challenge, I may indeed need a gaming pc instead but for the sake of specs, it should work for its value, It comes to be too odd.
Thats what I said to the Mod 1 page back.

After 6 pages, I'm rather disappointed that no one has considered looking deeper into the OP's idle usages and have continued to blame things (like ECC memory,) that wouldn't impact performance like this. This is a screenshot the OP uploaded when the machine was at idle with just Chrome open.


I could put the OP's CPU in my machine and it would feel exactly like my 3820 as it's the same thing just in Xeon form. I don't have an answer but, I do find it really odd that there are CPU usage spikes at idle on the screenshot the OP uploaded where the same spikes show up when the game is running. I find it absurd that I'm the only person who finds that a little strange and considering the OP has said that it occasionally stuttered and where the spikes are also occasional, there there seems to be a relatively strong correlation between the two. Once again, I don't know what could be causing this, it looks like it could be a Windows service doing it but, the simple fact is that it's unusual for there to be so much CPU load when the machine is seemingly idle. At idle, my CPU usage is always practically non-existent, not spiking like it does in the screenshot shown above.

@TwinDenis: I don't think your machine itself is at fault. People sometimes are a little too quick to suggest a new PC as opposed to actually reading the entire thread and thinking about the problem a little bit.
Here is my true idle state:
one of many.png
one of many2.png
one of many3.png


the moment I moved my mouse is when the spikes occurred in one of the cores, until then it was kind of a line or so it seems.
 
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Aquinus

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Make sure that the Intel chipset drivers are installed.
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24123/Chipset-Driver-for-Windows

Also, if this is your machine at idle, what was the first screenshot you gave us because you said that was at idle too. I don't like being fed inconsistent information. :confused:
you said it yourself, it was idle+chrome, imagine....
Yes I have the latest chipset already.

Also, it says when I try to download it that if I do so, it will downgrade.

ps: I got myself another monitoring software, here are some results before entering the game, while in game client.

Here are some more cpu graphs while in game,
branch hit ratio seems to be very high as well as stalled cycles ratio, I dont know if this is normal but would be nice to know.
 

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I guess i lost track of this post due to being sick and vomiting for 2 days now.
I did the reading and seems like i got a little confused over your results at idle.
Spikes when moving the mouse? That sounds like something serious going on in your rig.
I got no clue what so ever now, but i still think maybe you should disable the HT on the Xeon, run it as a quad core, and see if anything changes.
 
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I guess i lost track of this post due to being sick and vomiting for 2 days now.
I did the reading and seems like i got a little confused over your results at idle.
Spikes when moving the mouse? That sounds like something serious going on in your rig.
I got no clue what so ever now, but i still think maybe you should disable the HT on the Xeon, run it as a quad core, and see if anything changes.
It is the same with or without HT.
Wish you get well then.

Should I do a bios downgrade? from a14 to a12 (default one)
It might not work but it is worth a shot.
 
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Thank you.
Do everything that comes into mind.
It might help since we got no clue on what is going on in your PC.
 

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I don't like being fed inconsistent information. :confused:

This is a concern I shared too...

But after 11+ pages you don't find it a very odd that absolutely nothing has resolved the issue or even improved the issue(s) at-hand after all the suggestions (good, bad or questionable)? Keep in mind this is not the first tech forum or thread he's made on this very issue he's spent an incredible amount of time trying to resolve. Feel free to claim its not a platform issue...but in my eyes there isn't much left diagnostically except for the Dell platform. I believe this goes beyond simple drivers at this point...and I hope I'm wrong, but he's been trying all sorts of drivers since this thread began and likely before...hasn't fixed his issues yet.

I could put the OP's CPU in my machine and it would feel exactly like my 3820 as it's the same thing just in Xeon form.

Yep and your platform would handle it like a champ and game like a beast because it was designed to, his Dell clearly isn't when it comes to gaming in my eyes from what results we've seen thus far. What you suggest here would've been my next diagnostic step a week ago, take this dude's hardware (CPU and RAM specifically), put it in a different build and verify performance metrics to see if the issue transfers to verify if we have a CPU issue, memory module issue, or a platform issue. He cannot do that it seems, and nothing anyone including myself or you has suggested has made a lick of difference in the mixing pot of the OP's Dell workstation along with the OP trying to do his own diagnostics and blending it all together and posting results.

I haven't seen anyone prove or show that this isn't a Dell platform issue/design limitation here yet, and knowing it is a more budget-oriented workstation-class platform with Dell proprietary design from 2011, I am not surprised we're seeing performance/response issues in gaming. This machine was clearly not designed to do and keeps proving it again, and again, and again, as everything suggested changes nothing for the OP. OEM's design their boards and to stack em deep and sell em cheap, especially the budget options. They make design changes, cut out/gimp areas not necessary for their design intentions, use different grades of components (especially compared to enthusiast-grade boards), take shortcuts at the cost of performance that won't be noticed for the intended use of the platform. This is nothing new for OEMs as I'm sure you know. Again while I hope I'm wrong on this observation, so far the results aren't changing no matter what we suggest. That could still be user error, something that should've been RMA'd, or a design limitation.

My CPU usage has small spikes when I move the mouse around, honestly I don't think that's the issue here either. Granted I'm on a different platform altogether, but I have 0 issues while gaming. Those spikes would need to be more significant IMHO to make a realistic difference in gaming...but maybe there's a polling/cycle/interrupt issue that's causing the latency issues/stutter the OP is experiencing, but he stated it was more when something is loaded than when the mouse is moving...maybe we can try a PS/2 mouse if the board has a connection for it to verify. Seems far fetched, but at this point in this thread, that's what we're left with, trying everything for the sake of proving this machine can actually game smoothly.

@TwinDenis maybe you could look into doing an X79 build and reusing parts from your workstation rather than a totally new setup too. Would make it harder to resell the Dell if you were to do so. Hopefully someone will have a working solution for you. As I said earlier if this build were on my bench I'd be a lot more keen to diagnosing it any further. It depends on what you want to do, and how much more time you want to invest in this matter to see if a solution exists or if we're chasing unicorns.

On the BIOS downgrade, did this issue occur when you were on A12? I don't generally recommend this with OEM stuff, but if you feel it is worth a shot it is up to you.

Honestly as it stands right now if we're going to keep chasing this unicorn, I'd like to suggest another totally fresh start, format and OS install, fresh drivers, fresh testing. Using straight up WHQL Dell and Nvidia drivers for that OS. Be it 7, 8, 10. Use your SSD. Steer clear of the driver scanners and installer junk...please, stick to the OEM and Nvidia official drivers. I still feel it won't solve anything though, but a fresh slate might be worth another go here just so we can re-verify and resolve any doubts over previous results, and keep better consistency over the test metrics to be ran and analyzed. Maybe we can verify the data outputs and screenshots better so we're not making incorrect assumptions while trying to assist you.

Further research does show other issues experiencing stuttering shut of HT and were able to resolve that. But as you recently said that did not fix it for you... But maybe with the older BIOS + HT disabled it is worth a shot?

Did you review the release notes for the A14 release? How about A12? Dell usually shows some notes, though they can be very vague at times so it's kind of a crapshoot...
 
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This is a concern I shared too...

But after 11+ pages you don't find it a very odd that absolutely nothing has resolved the issue or even improved the issue(s)...............................

Yes I have tried many things, its a year old issue, you know. It is hard to think of possible solutions, I have found solutions that even people from this forum did not say, like the pcie gen3 patch which was for my chipset, I dont know about bios and if it is causing issues, or their release notes but here is the driver page suggested by dell. http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/product-support/product/precision-t3600/drivers?rvps=y
I went to the one that came with the system named A12 from A13, I know there could be something wrong with it, but not sure.
I opened a thread that was closed about rebuilding a gaming pc, so people agreed that I could just fix this one instead of doing a new start (even with a new start the prices are shocking for the same tier of quality counterpart for gaming)
ps: installing older bios did not work.
 
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People have agreed this PC will game, yet you can't without stuttering. None of them, nor myself or any others that have donated suggestions has solved the problem in the 11 pages thus far. Under many conditions I would also believe that your system should be gaming capable, looking at the specs I would assume that. I've had bad luck with OEM workstations like yours underperforming for gaming tasks, otherwise I wouldn't be repeating myself about doubting the Dell platform, if I had less experience with OEM's I would assume that they should perform fine.

Do you know anyone with an X79 build you could test your CPU/RAM in?

Would you be willing to start fresh again as I suggested in my prior post? Fresh format and OS install on your SSD, use Dell and Nvidia WHQL drivers. Might as well go back up to A14 firmware if you haven't already. Maybe even go into your Bios and load optimized defaults after upgrading, before you make any other changes in there save and reboot. Just the OS, drivers, and your games and what it takes to run them. I know you've done this...but at this point it's one more option, and a fresh slate approach after trying all the stuff you've done wouldn't hurt.

:toast:

Edit: I'm not at home now...but do any of the games you play with the stutter issue have Linux/SreamOS support? Would you be against trying to game in a different OS to see if results are similar there? If not...load up Ubuntu 15 and that game and report back. Ubuntu is pretty easy to install and use and there's a lotta install guides and vids. Just a thought and a different agnle of attack.
 
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People have agreed this PC will game, yet you can't without stuttering. None of them, nor myself or any others that have donated suggestions has solved the problem in the 11 pages thus far. Under many conditions I would also believe that your system should be gaming capable, looking at the specs I would assume that. I've had bad luck with OEM workstations like yours underperforming for gaming tasks, otherwise I wouldn't be repeating myself about doubting the Dell platform, if I had less experience with OEM's I would assume that they should perform fine.

Do you know anyone with an X79 build you could test your CPU/RAM in?

Would you be willing to start fresh again as I suggested in my prior post? Fresh format and OS install on your SSD, use Dell and Nvidia WHQL drivers. Might as well go back up to A14 firmware if you haven't already. Maybe even go into your Bios and load optimized defaults after upgrading, before you make any other changes in there save and reboot. Just the OS, drivers, and your games and what it takes to run them. I know you've done this...but at this point it's one more option, and a fresh slate approach after trying all the stuff you've done wouldn't hurt.

:toast:

Edit: I'm not at home now...but do any of the games you play with the stutter issue have Linux/SreamOS support? Would you be against trying to game in a different OS to see if results are similar there? If not...load up Ubuntu 15 and that game and report back. Ubuntu is pretty easy to install and use and there's a lotta install guides and vids. Just a thought and a different agnle of attack.
I have tried doing fresh reinstall exactly like you said, since I have my ssd I tried this before anything else because I knew I had to experiment on that matter since I had to install it on the new drive anyway.
The OS solution seems away from my reach, should I do format again?
I dont think these games have support more than windows or mac.
 

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Turn off HT?? It causes issues for some people?? :confused:
 
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Turn off HT?? It causes issues for some people?? :confused:

this is said more than twice, yes, it is for some people a problem but dont know if it is for me, I tried running without it indeed. It doesn't help.

But since games are gpu+cpu based why would something like this happen with those specs, even with dell custom mo.bo. , it concerns me a lot.
 

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it's more than likely that PSU... it may be gold rated but it'll hardly be the pinnicle of stability
 
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it's more than likely that PSU... it may be gold rated but it'll hardly be the pinnicle of stability
The way everyone is suggesting the causes out of the blue will make me end up replacing the whole pc part to part. It is not logical, why is it that it is because of Psu?
 
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When every logical solution has failed then it is time for the illogical to take a front seat. I am a gamer and I have a fairly good computer but because of money considerations It is not as good as it could be. I understand the money concerns you have but as stated in this thread we have tried to give you as much info as we have and none of it appears to have helped you at all. I am sorry your frustrated but at this point those of us reading this post and trying to figure it out are frustrated to.
 
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When every logical solution has failed then it is time for the illogical to take a front seat. I am a gamer and I have a fairly good computer but because of money considerations It is not as good as it could be. I understand the money concerns you have but as stated in this thread we have tried to give you as much info as we have and none of it appears to have helped you at all. I am sorry your frustrated but at this point those of us reading this post and trying to figure it out are frustrated to.
I have tried things that are not mentioned in any of the 12 pages thus far, so I can assure you there are other ways as well that no one knows about. The problem is that most answers and suggestions are like the best way to describe it is "Base/Generic" sometimes common, what needs to be done with most of the suggestions is that we have to think, I know it sounds odd but thats my answer, and not think in a remember or recognize way, but instead thinking through, I know that fps drops could be caused for example from faulty drivers but thats not the case here necessarily, but this idea is generic and suggested so many times to all cases, the term stutter could also mean diffrent effects to anyone, for one it could be a lag spike to other it could be a split second fps drop or constant low fps snap/drop, for me I could describe it as choppy frames, the fps counters I used as well as in game show 59-60 fliping back and forth but instead the appearance goes to one similar of 30 fps but it could be more or even less than that and it is constant in most games and conditional on others,
so to help you out I will give you an example, in league of legends I get normal fps until the point where something enters my screen but not when I pan over something, when I pan over something it is minimal but when something enters, like an ai or a champion/hero it stutters a lot more, and anything that is connected to the character gets this effect as well, I had a champion that had tethers which were in the center of the screen for example, the character was out of the screen and I commanded him to enter the screen, when they did the tether and the character had choppy frames,
I would average frame rate of the character at around 15-20fps, I could call it internal fps drop.
In heroes of the storm however it happens when I pan over something but also when minions start spawning (but only a little)
when battles start between heroes/players and pan over the area that it is happening I get huge fps drops, around the same, maybe less from lol but its very close.
I have heard for similar things before, and saw few t3600 system threads online as well about gaming, someone said they just disabled HT and it got fixed, well for them it worked out for me it did not, we have tools to check on the system, compatibility etc, if it is not copable of handling a lol game which is literally flat polygons and 10max low poly characters with dx9 only at highest(or low with 0 stutter), it is too odd to believe. I have seen people even game with the quadro600 on this game with no issues on medium settings especially. Something is fishy...

So anyway, this is useful information in the eyes of an expert and I am sure of it, in my profession I can usually answer something when I get the symptoms told in perfect detail. I wait for a custom answer not a pre-suggested and generic one, not because I dont appreciate it but because as you said all else are already told (drivers, fresh install, bios configs etc.).
And of course make no mistake I am grateful that the thread is 12 pages long and keeps on going because it shows good things (unlike other forums that are left blank).
 
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