Huzzah! Gamers Nexus has fixed CPU cooler reviews and made all other web site reviews incorrect!

[mtcn77]

My ears are burning!

This is the first time I've seen seronx display some displacement and even correspondence towards his fellows. He is actually rather disinclined for personal interests. I'd definitely want to hear more towards his viewpoint. Such a charmed fellow.

 

[sepheronx]

This is the first time I've seen seronx display some displacement and even correspondence towards his fellows. He is actually rather disinclined for personal interests. I'd definitely want to hear more towards his viewpoint. Such a charmed fellow.

I wont name names. I just do not feel the need to bring people to the limelight and tarnish their image as it isn't my place. I am just saying there are some of those members on this forums that rather leave a bad taste in my mouth due to their rude behavior especially to new members whom are asking genuine questions but may not really know how to express their concerns as they may not be as knowledgeable as the rest of us. People need to learn patience and just treat others as they themselves wish to be treated.

But it isn't Dirtyferret. He has been very pleasant to me and it isnt you either. I rather keep my composure and just try to be as helpful as I can.

I just think that many people here are very talented in their knowledge even if they do not think so. I'll give an example of someone I greatly appreciate and wish to learn more from: @eidairaman1 as he taught me a lot about bios flashing and even now got me into the interest of buying an SPI programmer so I can modify bios'. I never learned that from any youtube personality. So I feel this place has its great worth of knowledge.

 

[mtcn77]

I rather keep my composure and just try to be as helpful as I can.

That is what makes you humble. When I said your viewpoint, it was towards your previous remark on your industry correspondences, not in the present sense.

 

[sepheronx]

That is what makes you humble. When I said your viewpoint, it was towards your previous remark on your industry correspondences, not in the present sense.

I actually appreciate this comment. I don't get good comments very often towards me even in my personal life (I am more shy and reserved up front rather than online where I am not seeing people face to face). Then again, I am not very good at explaining my point of view without people thinking ill of me. So thank you. It made me feel a lot better today.

 

[mtcn77]

I actually appreciate this comment. I don't get good comments very often towards me even in my personal life. Then again, I am not very good at explaining my point of view without people thinking ill of me. So thank you. It made me feel a lot better today.

Same sentiment towards a lot of your former self. You make tech look easy.

 

[sepheronx]

Same sentiment towards a lot of your former self. You make tech look easy.

I have been in the industry for 20 years. And I am always learning something new. Something that some members here I am in awe of due to their knowledge; make it look like a baby's toy.

I will not disregard Steve in his way of looking at the methods of testing coolers. I just think it doesn't really think it outdoes any other test done by other reviewers because as what was mentioned multiple of times here - it is that you test what you were given or purchased.

 

[Kapone33]

Um....no.

Maybe not you but I certainly would after looking at the cost of the cooler

Over priced, and definitely over hyped.

I used to think that until I actually bought a Noctua cooler. It kept my 1920x in the low 30s and never went past 60 C. Even at full speed the fan is inaudible.The cooler was $100 while one Noctua 140mm PWM fan is up to $48.99 on Amazon. Their Redux line is also pretty good at low RPMs.

I think Steve sometimes takes himself a bit too seriously.

While Steve makes some good points, he also misses the mark on more than a few. So while not complete BS, the article does have some odor to it.

?!? WTH? Noctua is good, but they are far from being the "end-all-be-all of PC cooling" as your comment implies.

I'll echo this.

I am not saying that at all nor implying it I apologize if that is what you inferred. There is no clear leader in the CPU cooling space. Noctua are good but so are some Be Quiet, Phanteks, Scythe, Cooler Master, Bit Fenix, Phanteks, Thermaltake, EKWB and Silverstone fans.

 

[mtcn77]

Something that some members here I am in awe of due to their knowledge; make it look like a baby's toy.

Which is the reason the criticism here looks undue to me.
We won't be young. These guys are. They make it simple for us. Why put them in the crosshairs?

While Steve makes some good points, he also misses the mark on more than a few.

The guy is actually great with water cooling instrumentation. Honestly, I could care less if he skips a few broad strokes. Who fusses on whose lineup the best fan is?
Like the Noctua question. Normally you won't be presented by just how good Noctuas are, until you devolve into +50% overcurrent at 25% cooling capacity tests. Yes, when you zoom in 600%, Noctua does break away from the pack.

 

[phanbuey]

We need the anti-steve. A comprehensive list of coolers installed by an idiot (me) in a haphazard fashion, after 3 beers, in a case with poor airflow.

The champion of that list will be a special cooler indeed.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I wouldn't go that far. They don't know tech more than the average computer enthusiast.

Unfortunately, none of us can know that for sure.

I am just saying there are some of those members on this forums that rather leave a bad taste in my mouth due to their rude behavior especially to new members whom are asking genuine questions but may not really know how to express their concerns as they may not be as knowledgeable as the rest of us. People need to learn patience and just treat others as they themselves wish to be treated.

This, a thousand times this. People come here looking for help because TPU is well known for being a place where that help can be found. Some of us go out of our way to be helpful and lend our knowledge to solving the problems people are having. When certain users come in and crap on those efforts it gets very frustrating and tarnishes the TPU community.

I will not disregard Steve in his way of looking at the methods of testing coolers. I just think it doesn't really think it outdoes any other test done by other reviewers because as what was mentioned multiple of times here - it is that you test what you were given or purchased.

Agreed. Steve is an expert in the field. He has a lot of know-how. In the case of the article referenced in this thread, his methodology can be employed to test the absolute properties of a cooling device, but such testing does not show practical performance in a working environment.

Yes, when you expand the lead 6 times, Noctua does break from the pack.

That might be true but they are far from alone in companies that produce products that break away from the majority of the pack.

 

[mtcn77]

That might be true but they are far from alone in companies that produce products that break away from the majority of the pack.

We could also take the steve approach and dictate our pedantry. How would you like to hear it from an older guy? I'm sure that should ruffle your feathers, not knowing which is worse. I honestly don't take hard lines. Anybody can hold a better opinion than me, unless I lay down my stake. I won't take the uncertainty into jeopardy.
Noctua is still the king out there if you are into laminar flow.

I'm more of a thermalright fan, but that is where the credit is due.

 

[robot zombie]

I see interesting parallels between PC hardware and audio gear. People like to put certain measurements or ways of measuring things on a pedestal. Often that stuff is generally useful, but it's always a sliver of the bigger picture. Certain benchmarks become like a religion for the audiences of certain reviewers who push their specific benchmarks over others because it doesn't show this or only shows that. They just don't give you everything, you know? That is true of all benchmarks! People get carried away too easily. One won't tell you what another can, and vice versa. It means nothing if you can't fully comprehend the implications and be able to corroborate it with experience. Until then it's mostly a number, as far as you are concerned. It may be good enough on its own. Or it may not.

After a certain point you kind of wonder whether they're trying to inform you, or just selling you products, you know? If a reviewer can measure things in a way that's objective enough for people to trust it, but on some level favors certain products over others, people making those products will want to work with them. And then it becomes something a little out there. Companies start tweaking what they make to look better by that metric and it almost doesn't matter if it lives up, because enough people believe in the metric to buy it and stand by it. Ideology is a powerful tool. It can draw people's attention away from less obvious negatives fairly easily. The reviewers are essentially telegraphing what they want to see before they will make a positive recommendation.

Not too long ago people didn't believe microstutter existed because they couldn't measure it, and the way we measured FPS suggested it was all in people's heads. In audio, people often believe that super-low THD guarantees good sound, when all it really guarantees is 'not bad' sound, specifically in whatever narrow band and power level was tested (gotta watch that too, I've seen people try to pass off distortion figures on headphones at 300vrms, which is basically what you want for starting fires.) It could measure well there and still sound 'not good' because of all of the other things not accounted for. And invariably, the people you see touting it as superior, haven't actually been around to hear things for themselves and realize how much more is not on paper. There's a disconnect from what all of the parameters mean, because you have to observe for yourself before they start sinking in.

Of course when we started looking deeper into frametimes and plotting them out over time with more granularity, the microstutters were there for all to see. Before that, you were an idiot for even mentioning it. Stick to the science, K? I know it's right there in front of you when you're gaming, but we have charts that show it's fine, so it's definitely you!

IIRC we have HardOCP for proliferating measurements showing microstutter. Now that is a big deal. People want to see that consistency in writing AND see people using the card reporting smoothness. People may say the benchmarks look good... usually followed by a but we'll see.

What I'm getting at is... measuring things in different ways is important. It gets us closer to identifying everything that does and doesn't matter. There's always going to be something to see there. But no measurement paints the whole picture. There's never gonna be that one number or chart to rule them all. That's not really how science is supposed to work. You're always looking for more... always expanding rigor and refining method. This isn't hard science they're doing but it still applies. Just because you have data for one thing, doesn't necessarily disprove things your data didn't account for, that you may not even have identified - and maybe nobody ever has. There will always be those blind spots. Never assume total accuracy, consistency, or practicality.

Honestly.... these kinds of measurements are better for troubleshooting. Say something isn't right with the cooler... it's not performing how your experience suggests it should. So you test it and find some things standing out comparatively. That's your clue to what to change. For someone buying the same product, it may in fact be totally useless.

My biggest pet peeve... and you see this most in new people, is the tendency to cling to one or two measurements for their standard in PC hardware. There are the standbys that give a decent starting point, but I feel like you're setting yourself up to be mislead by thinking you know more than you do simply because you can read charts. You know the ones. They will shit on anything that falls short in one spec or benchmark, even in the face of obvious evidence from people who have real experience with the hardware. It's a mess.

Making good PC hardware is one part art, one part science, and one BIG part experience. Really, that's just engineering in a nutshell. You have to be able to make meaningful subjective observations and learn when not to blindly trust a number and just understand that there is only so much you can learn about a car by putting it on the dyno. For all you know, that perfectly performing machine actually drives like shit.

And with that in mind, I'll be interested in seeing how these benchmarks play out. But I'll still be checking out other ones too. I'm sure Steve and GN know what they're doing. But Steve is only Steve. He's got his own standards and determinations that make sense to him. What that actually amounts to in the real world, even he doesn't know.

If things work out, I'll try them for myself and ACTUALLY find out if it works for me. And if it doesn't I'll tell people. This is where subjectivity comes in. How many times has something been lauded for big performance metrics, with all of this hype and aplomb and people who've never used it propping it up as the best, only to have a bunch of people come around later with other problems? By then, the cult mentality has taken hold and people argue about it for fucking years. It's a pissing contest. People are too scared of buyer's remorse to get their feet wet in this hobby. There is no substitute for that. You can obsess over benchmarks for years and miss the trees for the forest on a consistent basis if you're not getting down and seeing how things actually play out. Otherwise it's kinda like living in a decently (but not amazingly) convincing VR simulation and thinking you understand reality because of it.

Sometimes I think it is actually more useful to ask people who's biases are known to you about what they're using and how it's working out for them than it is to look at benchmarks. ESPECIALLY when it comes to coolers. Everyone measures those completely differently, rarely are they transparent enough about it, and quite often the circumstances they choose to replicate accentuate things that actually don't matter to you, and obfuscate things that matter more than anything. They don't know what you're working with. Only you can know that. On that level, the more actual experience you have, the better things tend to go for you. That last one is really perilous... what seems to make sense on paper isn't always so relevant in practice. Experience is still way more valuable IMO, though benchmarks do count for something.


TLDR: Oh boy, a new way to benchmark coolers!

 

[Deleted member 50521]

It is more amusing reading the response here. Very few on the test methods, statistical analysis. Good old TPU

 

[robot zombie]

It is more amusing reading the response here. Very few on the test methods, statistical analysis. Good old TPU

I don't think it's that people are uninterested in the nitty gritty. I can say I am, and I see a lot of things in their methods that look promising... like obviously better. A lot of it is just common sense stuff that unfortunately has gone overlooked and/or undisclosed. So I welcome the reevaluation. They're looking at their own techniques critically. I think they have some solid ideas for hammering down details we usually never have such a clear picture of. I like the detailed disclosure. I think this will be good for direct comparison of different coolers, though maybe not for determining which ones are good for what. There's a lot to dive into with their itinerary.

Most, I think are more interested in seeing this methodology in action than just reading claims about how things ought to be done when it comes to benching coolers. Until there actually are numbers to go over, it's neither here nor there. Things will become clearer as it rolls out. Totally get the pull back. I also think people are sort of taking the piss because it's not the first time somebody has rehashed their analysis of coolers, but GN kinda makes it seem like they're revolutionizing the whole deal with the "We're all doing it wrong and I'm finally doing it right!" spiel. We've all heard that before.

 

[Deleted member 50521]

I don't think it's that people are uninterested in the nitty gritty. I can say I am, and I see a lot of things in their methods that look promising... like obviously better. A lot of it is just common sense stuff that unfortunately has gone overlooked and/or undisclosed. So I welcome the reevaluation. They're looking at their own techniques critically. I think they have some solid ideas for hammering down details we usually never have such a clear picture of. I like the detailed disclosure. I think this will be good for direct comparison of different coolers, though maybe not for determining which ones are good for what. There's a lot to dive into with their itinerary.

Most, I think are more interested in seeing this methodology in action than just reading claims about how things ought to be done when it comes to benching coolers. Until there actually are numbers to go over, it's neither here nor there. Things will become clearer as it rolls out. Totally get the pull back. I also think people are sort of taking the piss because it's not the first time somebody has rehashed their analysis of coolers, but GN kinda makes it seem like they're revolutionizing the whole deal with the "We're all doing it wrong and I'm finally doing it right!" spiel. We've all heard that before.

They have developed a new pipeline, i see it as good for consumers: for folks wanting more data and stringent statistical testing these are great. What is it there to lose? You don’t like it don’t watch it. Yet all i see is just bunch of couch experts attacking based on their own emotional bias. So eager to judge. Calling others “take themselves too seriously” while not bothering looking at their own judgmental attitudes.

I will keep the rest of my thought to myself. You folks go and enjoy.

 

[R0H1T]

You're making it sound as if he's done something revolutionary, AT has been at it for GOD knows how long & I'd take their reviews over any other random YTer any & every day of the week

The Cougar Helor 240-360 CPU Liquid Cooler Review: A Top Tier Start In CPU Cooling

www.anandtech.com

 

[eidairaman1]

I think Steve sometimes takes himself a bit too seriously.

While Steve makes some good points, he also misses the mark on more than a few. So while not complete BS, the article does have some odor to it.

?!? WTH? Noctua is good, but they are far from being the "end-all-be-all of PC cooling" as your comment implies.

I'll echo this.

That's inaccurate and very unfair. It's like saying that Jay, Steve, Kyle, Paul or even Jerry are not "Tech Guys". Such is a silly statement. They each have their own take and perspective on the industry. Just because that perspective doesn't resonate with some users doesn't invalidate their tech worthiness. Example, David Murray(The 8bit Guy). He is most definitely a tech guy. He specializes in/on retro/older tech but no one can deny him the status of "Tech Expert". Linus is no different. He is an expert in his field much like many other YouTubers and many of the people on this site and all are deserving of recognition.

8bit Guy I take more seriously than Linus. GN i only really look at for GPU disassembly, Actually Hardcore Overclocking I look at motherboards for VRMs

I wont name names. I just do not feel the need to bring people to the limelight and tarnish their image as it isn't my place. I am just saying there are some of those members on this forums that rather leave a bad taste in my mouth due to their rude behavior especially to new members whom are asking genuine questions but may not really know how to express their concerns as they may not be as knowledgeable as the rest of us. People need to learn patience and just treat others as they themselves wish to be treated.

But it isn't Dirtyferret. He has been very pleasant to me and it isnt you either. I rather keep my composure and just try to be as helpful as I can.

I just think that many people here are very talented in their knowledge even if they do not think so. I'll give an example of someone I greatly appreciate and wish to learn more from: @eidairaman1 as he taught me a lot about bios flashing and even now got me into the interest of buying an SPI programmer so I can modify bios'. I never learned that from any youtube personality. So I feel this place has its great worth of knowledge.

I am still learning myself. I am limited in the oc dept because I am on older hardware so oc for a ryzen/intel is far diff than a FX or Athlon 64.

SPI programming if done properly can be a safer means than using software flashers, it is more involved though because you have to know what chip onboard is the eeprom, how to align the chip clip and what software to use to force flash.

 

[Xzibit]

You're making it sound as if he's done something revolutionary, AT has been at it for GOD knows how long & I'd take their reviews over any other random YTer any & every day of the week

The Cougar Helor 240-360 CPU Liquid Cooler Review: A Top Tier Start In CPU Cooling

www.anandtech.com

I'm sure people remember
http://www.frostytech.com/testmethod_mk2.cfm

 

[robot zombie]

They have developed a new pipeline, i see it as good for consumers: for folks wanting more data and stringent statistical testing these are great. What is it there to lose? You don’t like it don’t watch it. Yet all i see is just bunch of couch experts attacking based on their own emotional bias. So eager to judge. Calling others “take themselves too seriously” while not bothering looking at their own judgmental attitudes.

I will keep the rest of my thought to myself. You folks go and enjoy.

I think you're taking things more seriously than others are even taking themselves, honestly. Drive-by observations are just that. We all make them. Maybe I'm missing something in text, but you're coming off pretty emotional yourself. How is anyone supposed to take that last line as anything but super-judgemental? How can you just call other people judgemental and then immediately after turn up your nose yourself like you're doing us a favor? All I've seen from you in this thread is pointing the finger at everyone else, while not really talking about any of the things you are judging them for not talking about. Why not dive into that stuff instead? I'm sure you have some thoughts on their methods that would be more valuable to people than your thoughts on other people's thoughts.

I mean, what's the point of complaining about people missing the point if you're not going to share what they're actually missing? You're not changing anybody's minds with a blanket criticism. "You don't like it, don't watch it." Or, if you feel people are being too judgemental, show where with more than a couple of general statements. Give us something to actually digest and respond to. I fully believe you actually can. I truly don't doubt someone in your field can get deeper into it than most of us here could - you're experienced in that exact kind of thinking. But you make it sound like you're above doing that, like people here aren't worth it. Gotta admit, that is hard to take seriously. Again, makes me wonder who is getting emotional here. I'd expect someone calm would be more willing to participate without immediately turning to others, in spite of major disagreements.

Sorry, just don't see what you're after by saying these things. Why come in here to grumble about people's attitudes towards some people who test and review stuff online when you're set on leaving us to it anyway? Just to make sure we all know you think we're all full of shit? Instead of going after people and ripping on the state of TPU, you could've simply talked about what you wanted to see talked about. But you haven't really done that - it all circles back to how you feel about people's opinions. You stepped in, complained, and bowed out. It's a very confusing take. Nothing personal, I'm trying to be reasonable and just call what I see straight-up - I have nothing against you! But really now... what's all of that doing for anyone? We can go in circles discussing who's taking themselves too seriously forever, but really why go there at all if you yourself think it's all meaningless? Isn't that just more frustration for you? Have some faith, man! Things can be so much worse in the world of shitty opinions. The worst that happens here is people get stuck on random minutia for pages, which is nothing compared to how ugly things can really be.

And yes, I am judging you a bit, just as you have judged everyone else. If I'm arrogant, so are you. We're in this together, hate it or not.


I get your point. It's never bad to take a more focused, purpose and method driven approach. I do agree, it's actually refreshing to see them being more stringent. I can't remember ever seeing anyone go through so many variables and really lay out the hows and whys. I respect that. And I'm thinking very few here are actually meaning to question that, in itself.

There is a knee-jerk because of junk science and bad method. People have heard this stuff so much they won't even take it seriously anymore. They see it and immediately laugh, because that is the state of things right now. Credibility as a reviewer is hard to keep. Still gotta try, of course. And it doesn't mean it's inherently worthless either. It's just that people are wary on principle. Whether that's rational or not is another deal. I don't think it is. But I also don't hold it to people to be rational all of the time. Very few are wired for that. It's a wonder we've made it this far but somehow we keep moving forw... err, in some direction

People are always going to be skeptical of reviewers who present themselves as having better knowledge than others. People are gonna think what they're gonna think and have their preferred sources regardless. There is an inseparable emotional component. I don't think anyone here actually thinks they're an expert (well... some might lol.) I'd say most people here care less about the harder science and more about just getting to what works for them... sharing opinions of varying quality along the way. You're not wrong, this isn't a very deep conversation. Nor is this really that kind of forum... or at least not in my time here. I think on some level even those most judgemental of us get that we don't know everything. I have seen people turn from judgemental to understanding pretty quick with the right info. This is pretty relaxed to me. We're not scientists here, just regular nerds being picky for no goddamned reason. I don't see anybody dropping credentials here. Nor is anybody against more good data. That's not the concern for them.

I think as part of a larger dialogue and just in sheer raw contributions to the overall data pool, what they're doing is great. I also think they're being a little silly in how they're presenting what they're actually doing, which is testing coolers in a somewhat novel way. They're making it sound like more than it is, as though nobody has ever sat down and worked out more stringent methods than before. Most of it should be common sense anyway. That's all. Doesn't mean the data isn't welcome. I'm betting a lot of people here will have no problems referencing it when they see a use for it. Why wouldn't you? People may have their opinions about things, but practicality rules the day. If the data is good, and the methods work, people will use it all, regardless of their personal opinions of where it comes from. I see that sentiment in this thread, too. It's good that a reviewer is hashing out their testing, but I think expecting people to think of them as anything more than a reviewer is asking too much. More data is still well and good, just as GN is but one of many review outlets. And that's how most people are going to see Steve, no matter what he says or does.

 

[Frick]

They have developed a new pipeline, i see it as good for consumers: for folks wanting more data and stringent statistical testing these are great. What is it there to lose? You don’t like it don’t watch it. Yet all i see is just bunch of couch experts attacking based on their own emotional bias. So eager to judge. Calling others “take themselves too seriously” while not bothering looking at their own judgmental attitudes.

I will keep the rest of my thought to myself. You folks go and enjoy.

This is a tangent, but bias is like the point of emotions, sort of. Even more tangential: thought induces emotion.

Also it's the attitude that people have problems with. The title is Everyone else is wrong, basically. I like standardized fan testing (as long as there are articles to read because video reviews can go bucket) and the more detail and data the better.

 

[Flanker]

Why can't we have both? Silent PC Review used to do that when they were active. A graph with their chosen reference fan and a seperate graph with bundled fans

 

[freeagent]

There was a few people who didn’t like what I said about YouTube reviews. Don’t get me wrong, I watch them too.. but what they say is not the gospel to me. The same go for written review, I read them, but it’s up to me what I do with that information. I try to use them both. . to a point.
Since this thread is about tech jesus, I’m not gonna lie, I think he’s a good kid, and he’s trying. I click his links. But there’s a few guys on there and it’s like omg you guys wtf. And people click their links. My kids live on YouTube, but they don’t watch tech reviews.. they are more into guys who play games and put it on YouTube

 

[robot zombie]

There was a few people who didn’t like what I said about YouTube reviews. Don’t get me wrong, I watch them too.. but what they say is not the gospel to me. The same go for written review, I read them, but it’s up to me what I do with that information. I try to use them both. . to a point.
Since this thread is about tech jesus, I’m not gonna lie, I think he’s a good kid, and he’s trying. I click his links. But there’s a few guys on there and it’s like omg you guys wtf. And people click their links. My kids live on YouTube, but they don’t watch tech reviews.. they are more into guys who play games and put it on YouTube

I like youtube, but all channels have that weird personality cult. I know it's just branding but people seem to think of them more as celebrities that they could actually hang out with. They believe what is presented as though it's coming from a trusted friend and defend them like blood relatives. It's kind of scary, how many things you can find floating around on the internet that are actually straight dogma from one youtube channel or another. It's untraceable. You only know it if you see it on youtube before it spreads. A lot of times the info is mostly okay, but just the fact that it might not be and enough fans can still parrot it enough for people outside of it to internalize it, never knowing it's twilight-zone insights, freaks me out a bit. I wonder, with how some people consume youtube and view creators, what kind of impact that's having on all sorts of narratives. Not even going to politics, just general things. You can say it's just the weirdo fans, but that stuff trickles out to people who've mostly never heard of them in a month or two flat. A lot of them never get called out, either. Half of the time their source is another youtube channel out for views and they just play off of eachother, so now you've got two guys making stuff from beyond the event horizon something that exists in normal headspace

Honestly, I think 'viral info' was a terrible premise to begin with. It makes people rush to conclusions. Same reason documentaries often aren't the best way to learn about something. They also have to entertain you while trying to cram information down a narrow channel. And how entertaining it is often influences what people are willing to take without seeking more sources. Juust the right sized bites to satisfy, but not enough to do much with.

And then there is all of the cringey stuff they do for views. If you look at the most popular stuff, you know youtube is overwhelmingly kids. It's gotta be. And then you look at the comments. I've never seen more fascinating displays of mutually assured ignorance. If most of those people aren't 16 or younger, I genuinely feel bad for them, because man... the amount of ineptitude and severe emotional baggage on display is a lot to take in. They read like they barely know how to express themselves, let alone process new information meaningfully. I wish I was just being cynical, but it's so out there I don't know if I'll ever get used to it. Even compared to other social media, it's a new zone. Something about the way things are delivered there seems to lead more impressionable people to lose perspective real hard and fast. Add video to the usual social media info sugar rush and I think it takes people over the edge.

To me the comments have to speak to the content. I think "So the people who believe [insert crazy baseless twitter twatting brought out in video by an attractive person faking good speaking skills] also believe this." and I don't trust it, even if there's no other real reason. Hell, there are entire channels devoted to things people say on reddit, tumblr, and twitter!

The platform as a whole has just become this big echo chamber where everyone mostly just goes for views. Most of it, I can only take so seriously. Some of the littler creators are pretty alright, but mainstream YT is basically only a notch or two above daytime TV for me in terms of info quality and entertainment factor. Youtubers aren't inherently pandering shills, but they all use some of the same junkfood tricks.

That said, GN IS one of the better ones. They integrate their community well, and for the most part they're pretty with it. They stick to what they say they're out to do, and legitimately do come out with useful information that runs a little deeper. They're usually NOT the super-click-baity ones. They usually pack a lot of info into their videos too. Not a lot of nonsense time wasting. It is almost entirely what it says it is. That's one thing I've always appreciated about them. I don't walk away feeling like I was bamboozled into watching bullshit that was only loosely related to what made me want to watch in the first place.

But then, GN wasn't always on youtube. They started as a blog type of deal back on the oldnet. The ones born completely of the tube are a different breed entirely. Most obvious difference being how little actually meaningful stuff they can pack into 10 minutes of time.

That's really it for me. I don't want to watch a video for benchmarks. It's the same as with guides. Unless I need to see video, I waste so much time waiting for the info I want and emotional energy skipping around to find it, for something that I could get instantaneously through a single image, or 15-30 seconds of reading. I mean, what really is a tech review but a guy talking over some cool b-roll with some slides and quotes mixed in? Maybe some cringey skits for the tube kidz. To me, that's a step backwards. It gets your attention, but the info-time ratio sucks and it wears me down when I actually have another goal other than sitting and watching something. It's just breaking my flow. I try to spend as little time there as possible just because of how superficial so much of it really is.

 

[dirtyferret]

@robot zombie , every time I see you posted my first thought is "let me get a fresh cup of coffee this will be long"

 

[EarthDog]

@robot zombie , every time I see you posted my first thought is "let me get a fresh cup of coffee this will be long"

He pales in comparison to john naylor...

...but typically good content.