In regards to the 5090 "launch" a message to Nvidia, from a long time supporter

[GodisanAtheist]

So you're courting people for what is essentially AMD's screw up on all fronts as if we're at fault that AMD GPUs don't offer killer features, don't offer superior value, don't offer superior power efficiency and so forth and essentially the only versus where it makes at least five percent sense to buy an AMD GPU is 3050 VS 6600 with the latter not convincingly destroying the former.

Doesn't work that way. You don't need to market yayo but need to market its substitutes. It's on AMD to engineer hardware that is better, to program software that is nicer and to market it thereafter because after decades of having less than impeccable reputation, your production won't sell on its own. What they did so far is releasing a whole lot of "leaks" and rumours.

Customers, ideally, gotta be aware. And they are. Picking a marginally faster GPU over a substantially more polished one feels immature. And it is. Unless your only goal is to play select games where nVidia's exclusive features don't matter. Buying an inferior product just out of spite doesn't achieve anything.

Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware.

Even the Romans had this figured out 2000+ years ago.

You're hyperfocusing on a specific example, but the customer always makes the market. NV has just figured out how to make the customer, and now we get to live that.

 

[Macro Device]

Umm the 3050 vs the 6600 isn't the best example for your thesis.

I explicitly pointed out it's the only versus in which AMD win.

You're hyperfocusing on a specific example

Am I?

but the customer always makes the market

And so far the ONLY thing the customer can do is buying nothing. Buying competing production is worse than either buying green or buying nothing.

 

[AnotherReader]

I explicitly pointed out it's the only versus in which AMD win.

Perhaps, I misunderstood you, but you said " essentially the only versus where it makes at least five percent sense to buy an AMD GPU is 3050 VS 6600 with the latter not convincingly destroying the former". That doesn't read like you think the 3050 isn't what it is: the vastly inferior GPU in that comparison.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I explicitly pointed out it's the only versus in which AMD win.


Am I?

And so far the ONLY thing the customer can do is buying nothing. Buying competing production is worse than either buying green or buying nothing.

- Yep, its always a choice, most simply don't have the willpower or follow through to actually make it.

 

[AnotherReader]

Well, I think it is entirely reasonable to expect that when a company releases a product, it will be available for customers to buy.


That is true, but in dealing with customers, while making money, they can still behave honestly and give them fair value for their money.

When companies behave as nasty as they can, trying to extract every single dollar consumers are willing to pay for the product (in the situation of the lack of competition), they must be subjected to regulation. For example, they can be forced to sell goods at cost + some reasonable margin. Unfortunatelly, video cards as luxury goods are under the radar of politicians and nobody will probably bother to regulate producers of these goods.

I mean that's on the customer too. There are examples of ethical corporations like Costco and they do well, but then there are scumbags like Amazon and Walmart that rake it in.

 

[eidairaman1]

Psssttt they dont care about gamers, its all about ai

 

[Denver]

It's wiser to curb the instinct to throw money at those who couldn't care less about our existence, no offense. I'm gradually distancing myself from this costly and often frustrating hobby of lackluster, generic games that offer little more than a "this has RT" label. I probably spend around 10 hours a month gaming, and even that seems excessive given the $2000-$3000 worth of hardware I've invested in.

While it's nice to stay updated with technological advancements— yes, my inner nerd is still alive—there are so many healthier and more fulfilling ways to spend my time and money.

It nauseates me to witness people's behavior these days. If you believe a company isn't delivering the "progress" or "quality" it should, just don't buy their crap products.

 

[Sound_Card]

You have to say it bluntly. If it hurts, I don't know what to say. I couldn't care less if you are emotional about graphics cards.

The market, the industry, is absolutely madness. Someone said earlier, they blame influencers. I agree, social media has hyped the living hell out of GPUs. It's baked into the mind that if you don't get one, you are losing out on cypto money, AI money, and the most bleeding edge performance for twitch streams in hopes to be the next Ninja or something.

It's going to get to the point where no one can afford graphics cards even on credit. The direction the industry is going is that these GPU's will be entirely for compute workstation purposes and gamers will be shoveled into prebuilt SoC builds based on ARM and a subscription service....

oh wait that is already happening with Nvidia's SoC coming out next year and their heavy marketing on GeForce Now.

You get what you sow I guess.

 

[68Olds]

Actually it's...

Psssttt they dont care about gamers, its all about the shareholders.

 

[freeagent]

This hobby isn't what it used to be, the plot has been lost.

 

[Dragam1337]

Honestly, i feel like people are justified in being upset about nvidia giving us the finger.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Honestly, i feel like people are justified in being upset about nvidia giving us the finger.

This all started in 2018 this is just the continuation of that story.

While people can be upset at whatever they want I'm somewhat surpise they seem to barelt realize this. I have 0 issues with someone not liking Nvidia I haven't liked them for a decade but I don't like any company that wants to separate as much money as humanly possible from my wallet that's just me.

Anyone who didn't see the writing on the wall for a least a decade just hasn't been paying attention.

 

[Dragam1337]

This all stated in 2018 this is just the continuation of that story.

While people can be upset at whatever they want I'm somewhat surpise they seem to barelt realize this. I have 0 issues with someone not liking Nvidia I haven't liked them for a decade but I don't like any company that wants to separate as much money as humanly possible from my wallet as possible that's just me.

Anyone who didn't see the writing on the wall for a least a decade just hasn't been paying attention.

You're absolutely right, it has only been going one way since nvidia came up with the titan branding (and pricing) for their big chip, and made their mid chip the new x80 card, back in the day with kepler (so back in 2012 even).

But i can certainly understand people being upset about it all the same - perhaps even more so.

 

[N/A]

There is no finger you just have to wait, Nvidia is doing a fantastic job. the initial wave of cards may be insufficient to satisfy the demand but there are many more waves like that to replenish the availability. It's not going to happen overnight and satisfy everyone instantly so that they can get the dopamine rush of unboxing and being the first on the first day. Just be happy for the people that were lucky and wait you turn.

 

[Dragam1337]

There is no finger you just have to wait, Nvidia is doing a fantastic job. the initial wave of cards may be insufficient to satisfy the demand but there are many more waves like that to replenish the availability. It's not going to happen overnight and satisfy everyone instantly so that they can get the dopamine rush of unboxing and being the first on the first day. Just be happy for the people that were lucky and wait you turn.

What i said regarding the finger had little to do with availability.

And yes, they most definitely are giving customers the finger... the performance uplift and prices are an insult.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

But i can certainly understand people being upset about it all the same - perhaps even more so.

It's definitely getting worse and worse this generation will have the weakest 80 class in over a decade and likely weakest 70 class... Even the 780 which was literally the same generation as the 680 was stronger than what we are getting comparatively and only took a year. Even if you add the 10% you can get from overclocking it's still weak.

My issue with Nvidia has never been the halo/flagships it's the cards that most gamers can afford have just gotten worse and worse... Obviously I'm in the extreme minority cuz gamers just love dat $#!÷

It's definitely ok to be annoyed/upset but Nvidia has been doing anti gamer things for long time and it's honestly our fault it continues we keep buying it up like we can't live without it.

The only difference is now they are doing it to ai companies... Who have much deeper pockets.

 

[freeagent]

I used to be able to buy a flagship for about 600CAD back in the day, now 600 fills a cart of groceries lol.

I use the term "fills" loosely.

 

[dont whant to set it"']

"the more you save (and the missing part) :me money" I imagine he refrained himself to say that on stage; come on ,tell me he ain't looking like a Pinocchio, who's nose is not growing longer but wider.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I used to be able to buy a flagship for about 600CAD back in the day, now 600 fills a cart of groceries lol.

I use the term "fills" loosely.

I don't really even think pricing is the main issue it's what we are getting for that price... 4080/4080S/5080 in a blind test would be hard to tell apart but we are having to spend the same 1000-1200 usd and now it's going to be another 24 months or so before we might get a meaningful uplift that means everything below it's going to be insignificant gains as well and that just sucks.

Even the 5090 25% more money for 30% more performance but substantially more power as well but hey it's faster so we good.

Doesn't matter you'll still have people defending Nvidia drinking that green Kool-aid even if the cards were 5% faster but had 6x frame generation lmao.

 

[freeagent]

Not gonna lie, I am curious what AMD will do. I might have to get one if they can pull their balls together.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I don't really even think pricing is the main issue it's what we are getting for that price... 4080/4080S/5080 in a blind test would be hard to tell apart but were are having to spend the same 1000-1200 usd and now it's going to be another 24 months or so before we might get a meaningful uplift that means everything below it's going to be insignificant gains as well and that just sucks.

Even the 5090 25% more money for 30% more performance but substantially more power as well but hey it's faster so we good.

Doesn't matter you'll still have people defending Nvidia drinking that green Kool-aid even if the cards were 5% faster but had 6x frame generation lmao.

- The absence of any significant price to performance increase hurts.

In the main review thread when W1Z was defending the "highly recommended" badge he was rhetorically asking "If you were shopping for a $1000 graphics card what else would you recommend?!"

And all I could think was "A 4080S that you bought 1 year ago..."

 

[AnotherReader]

This all started in 2018 this is just the continuation of that story.

While people can be upset at whatever they want I'm somewhat surpise they seem to barelt realize this. I have 0 issues with someone not liking Nvidia I haven't liked them for a decade but I don't like any company that wants to separate as much money as humanly possible from my wallet that's just me.

Anyone who didn't see the writing on the wall for a least a decade just hasn't been paying attention.

I would go even further back to 2007 and say the 8800 Ultra being priced at $830 was a harbinger that many failed to heed. This is the equivalent of $1,263.38 today and it was in a day when even leading edge nodes were priced at $5000 per wafer. The 8800 Ultra, on the other hand, was on a mature 90 nm node that had already been supplanted by the 80 nm node. The only reason we didn't see this earlier is that AMD competed until the launch of Pascal.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

- The absence of any significant price to performance increase hurts.

In the main review thread when W1Z was defending the "highly recommended" badge he was rhetorically asking "If you were shopping for a $1000 graphics card what else would you recommend?!"

And all I could think was "A 4080S that you bought 1 year ago..."

I mean regardless of the highly recommended badge or not it's not hard to look at the data and come to the conclusion it kinda sucks.... That doesn't mean everyone will come to that conclusion.

Reviewers aren't just evaluating the performance though they have to evaluate it vs what you can buy instead, they have to decide what MFG is worth even though it's subjective, it's also the most efficient card currently available.

I even replied to one of his answers not becuase I'm trying to sit here on his site and say what should or shouldn't get a highly recommended badge after all that's extremely subjective it just to me felt more like its competition is 1-2 year old products so irrespective of it's lack of improvement in performance it felt like it got it by default.

I would go even further back to 2007 and say the 8800 Ultra being priced at $830 was a harbinger that many failed to heed. This is the equivalent of $1,263.38 today and it was in a day when even leading edge nodes were priced at $5000 per wafer. The 8800 Ultra, on the other hand, was on a mature 90 nm node that had already been supplanted by the 80 nm node. The only reason we didn't see this earlier is that AMD competed until the launch of Pascal.

My 8000 series card came in a prebuilt I really wasn't paying attention to the market but the 500 series seemed pretty decent and that was my DGPU jumping in point.

I'm sure they did crappy things long before I jumped in it just seemed like intermittently they'd throw us a bone now they giving us the bone....

 

[AnotherReader]

I mean regardless of the highly recommended badge or not it's not hard to look at the data and come to the conclusion it kinda sucks.... That doesn't mean everyone will come to that conclusion.

Reviewers aren't just evaluating the performance though they have to evaluate it vs what you can buy instead, they have to decide what MFG is worth even though it's subjective, it's also the most efficient card currently available.

I even replied to one of his answers not becuase I'm trying to sit here on his site and say what should or shouldn't get a highly recommended badge after all that's extremely subjective it just to me felt more like its competition is 1-2 year old products so irrespective of it's lack of improvement in performance it gets it felt like it got it by default.



My 8000 series card came in a prebuilt I really wasn't paying attention to the market but the 500 series seemed pretty decent and that was my DGPU jumping in point.

I'm sure they did crappy things long before I jumped in it just seemed like intermittently they'd throw us a bone now they giving us the bone....

I'm dating myself, but I haven't bought a prebuilt since the Pentium days. The 400 and 500 series were priced well due to two reasons:

1. aftermath of the 2008 recession
2. AMD taking Nvidia to the cleaners with the 5000 series

Note that they didn't price high until they had a clear lead again with the 780 and then its price was reduced from $700 to $400 as soon as the 290X made it appear comically overpriced. Even the 980 Ti that used an unprecedented 601 mm^2 die was priced well. It wasn't until Vega failed to challenge the 1080 Ti that Nvidia realized that they had won and could price as they wished.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I'm dating myself, but I haven't bought a prebuilt since the Pentium days. The 400 and 500 series were priced well due to two reasons:

1. aftermath of the 2008 recession
2. AMD taking Nvidia to the cleaners with the 5000 series

Note that they didn't price high until they had a clear lead again with the 780 and then its price was reduced from $700 to $400 as soon as the 290X made it appear comically overpriced. Even the 980 Ti that used an unprecedented 601 mm^2 die was priced well. It wasn't until Vega failed to challenge the 1080 Ti that Nvidia realized that they had won and could price as they wished.

The key difference now though is even if AMD became respectable again consistently Nvidia sell to large corporations willing to spend 8000-10000 for a 90 class card with extra memory. Most their focus is B100/200 and let's be real nobody should be mad at them for that if I could make 30k per gpu or 2k I know what I'm picking.

So while I'm bummed by the generational improvements and annoyed with the direction these companies are going in I'm not nieve either to think I'm the center of the gpu world but at the end of the day until one of these companies offers me 60-70% more performance at a price I'm ok with they can suck my ××××.