Intel ATX 3.0 PSU standard has more power for GPU's (article)

[R-T-B]

Didn't the R9 295x2 draw more power than ANY single GPU consumer videocard out now?

According to TPU (thx W1zzard) the R9 295x2 peaks out at between 500W and 646W:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-r9-295-x2/22.html

There were people who ran 4-way crossfire back then so why are the late model video cards considered too much for conventional PSU's that could power one or two r9 295x2's?

It's not overall power draw that is the issue, it's the sudden spikes that modern cards pull very rapidly.

 

[Bill_Bright]

It's not overall power draw that is the issue, it's the sudden spikes that modern cards pull very rapidly.

I agree - the sudden, very high power spikes (excursions) of some of the latest cards are "a" big driving factor for the new standard. But frankly, a new standard is long overdue and so other factors are driving it too. The current standard was set way back in 2003! Some here reading this may not have even been born yet!

PCWorld has a good article on this new standard worth reading here. A couple things worth noting, IMO, is how and why Intel is spearheading this. I note the following:

Intel’s ATX 3.0 Power Supply Design Guide isn’t the company dictating to power supply companies what to make; they’re recommended guidelines put together with input from other companies with interests in the PC. Because Intel’s footprint is so large in computers, though, its specs do typically become the defacto standard everyone coalesces around.

Also interesting are the comments about the new efficiency standard competing with the 80 PLUS certification program; Cybenetics:

The final big move in ATX 3.0 and ATX12VO 2.0 is the formal acknowledgement of a competing power supply efficiency standard called Cybenetics. Most consumers are familiar with the 80 Plus logo that’s been used on PSUs since 2004. The 80 Plus program was the first program to test for a PSU’s efficiency at converting AC to DC. Cybenetic’s program is similar and can now be seen as an alternative to 80 Plus stickers on PSUs.

What’s better? Intel isn’t picking favorites but it’s clear Cybenetic’s program is stricter as it tests along a much larger range of loads versus 80 Plus’s handful of efficiency points. Cybenetics also tests PSUs at a higher temperature, which it says is closer to the reality most people face. Finally, Cybenetics also has certification for PSU acoustics as well. Although Cybenetics doesn’t currently test whether power supplies actually meet the power excursion requirements, the company may in the future as well.

The TLDR is a Cybenetics sticker on a new power supply could indicate it’s a good one, and possibly even better than ones sporting the 80 Plus sticker you’re used to.

Dunno about that. Those 17 inch units fit that category

Not even. The Osborne 1 computer weighed nearly 25 pounds!

Note this 17.2" Razer "Gaming laptop" weighs "only" 6 pounds. Light by comparison but note that does NOT include the charger, carrying case, or any extras the user might want to include, like a mouse, USB cables, external drives, etc. The point is, some of those monster so called "gaming laptops" you see marketed today are not something "most" travelers want to lug around airports all day or even college campuses.

You most likely can swap components afterwards too. They likely use MXM cards and socketed CPUs. memory and storage are 100% replacable. Since laptop monitors have standard sizes and standard connectors, you most likely can swap it too. That's certainly not bad for laptop.

Totally not the point. You said they can be "fully" customized. NO WAY! You "might" be able to swap "some" components but even then your choices are very limited. Many CPUs are surface mounted (soldered in) these days to allow for thinner cases (not to mention less weight, and of course, lower production costs). Many do NOT have replaceable memory (or storage) but if they do, then again the choices are limited. As for the monitor, come on! Can you swap a 15" laptop monitor for a 16" inch? Of course not.

And you know all that is true, so I fail to see why you continue to argue those points - except to argue. So I won't any longer.

 

[80251]

It's not overall power draw that is the issue, it's the sudden spikes that modern cards pull very rapidly.

A r9 295x2 didn't have power spikes? If a PSU could handle a pair of r9 295x2's or 3 980Ti's in SLI I don't see why it couldn't handle a 3090ti or whatever else is coming down the pike.

 

[eidairaman1]

A r9 295x2 didn't have power spikes? If a PSU could handle a pair of r9 295x2's or 3 980Ti's in SLI I don't see why it couldn't handle a 3090ti or whatever else is coming down the pike.

Different current draw

 

[maxfly]

A r9 295x2 didn't have power spikes? If a PSU could handle a pair of r9 295x2's or 3 980Ti's in SLI I don't see why it couldn't handle a 3090ti or whatever else is coming down the pike.

Most units can handle it, some didn't. Its basically a microburst, that pulls more juice than the power supplies OCP was set up to handle. So the the psu shuts off to protect itself from any potential damage. As it was designed to do. You can't compare it to anything else because its never happened before. OCP has never been tripped like that.

If you have a Seasonic unit built in the last year and a half your golden (I know this for a fact). Most, if not all top tier manufacturers have acknowledged the OCP issue and updated their units. So there's no need for anyone with a quality psu to freak out and go buy a new unit because of this new standard. Aibs will do the same thing as last gen and send adapters with their new cards. Nvidiot and AMD? Who knows what they will do with theirs.
The 1800-2000w thing seems like something being pulled out of context (I haven't read the article yet).

 

[eidairaman1]

Most units can handle it, some didn't. Its basically a microburst, that pulls more juice than the power supplies OCP was set up to handle. So the the psu shuts off to protect itself from any potential damage. As it was designed to do. You can't compare it to anything else because its never happened before. OCP has never been tripped like that.

If you have a Seasonic unit built in the last year and a half your golden (I know this for a fact). Most, if not all top tier manufacturers have acknowledged the OCP issue and updated their units. So there's no need for anyone with a quality psu to freak out and go buy a new unit because of this new standard. Aibs will do the same thing as last gen and send adapters with their new cards. Nvidiot and AMD? Who knows what they will do with theirs.
The 1800-2000w thing seems like something being pulled out of context (I haven't read the article yet).

If and when I finally upgrade i will put my unit to the test, (6950 XT or 7900/7950XT and see if it trips up, (I take care of my hardware)

 

[Bong-Jovi]

You can't get more than 1800w out of a modern 120v @ 15A outlet so people would need to start running a line from their breaker straight to their PC and ONLY for the PC and plug their monitor and speakers and desk light etc into a different plug connected to a different breaker, and any more than that and everyone would also need to run brand new thicker gauge wiring to their panel or everyone would have to just run it on 240v 3-phase and then get an inverter.

This is why the huge double-sized bitcoin mining PSU that LTT made a video on the other day, needed to be plugged into their 240v outlet.

Either this is a rumour and the person who made it up doesn't know enough about electrical to make it believable, or Intel actually plans to do this and they're absolute retards who don't care about 2/3rds of the world who are using 110/120v. Honestly at this point I can't even decide which is more likely.

 

[The red spirit]

Not even. The Osborne 1 computer weighed nearly 25 pounds!

Note this 17.2" Razer "Gaming laptop" weighs "only" 6 pounds. Light by comparison but note that does NOT include the charger, carrying case, or any extras the user might want to include, like a mouse, USB cables, external drives, etc. The point is, some of those monster so called "gaming laptops" you see marketed today are not something "most" travelers want to lug around airports all day or even college campuses.

Nah, I meant something more "accountant spec" like this HP:

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-17t-cn000-laptop-pc-3t000av-1

Something like it totally can be a replacement for desktop, as long as gaming isn't desired. It's not really bulky or heavy either, well relatively I mean. You can probably find a lappy with Pentium N6000 with lesser cooling, that will be even lighter.

Totally not the point. You said they can be "fully" customized. NO WAY! You "might" be able to swap "some" components but even then your choices are very limited. Many CPUs are surface mounted (soldered in) these days to allow for thinner cases (not to mention less weight, and of course, lower production costs). Many do NOT have replaceable memory (or storage) but if they do, then again the choices are limited. As for the monitor, come on! Can you swap a 15" laptop monitor for a 16" inch? Of course not.

Bruh, some Clevos have regular AM4 socket and you can get lappy with 3700X. You can swap any memory in it, same with storage. And you may be able to swap screen, but obviously only if you match the original panel size. BTW this ain't no desktop, so you either way have to accept not perfect customizability, but those Clevos are pretty cool and basically as customizable as portable computer could practically get.

 

[R-T-B]

A r9 295x2 didn't have power spikes?

Not so much spikes as just being a pig all the time.

You can't get more than 1800w out of a modern 120v @ 15A outlet so people would need to start running a line from their breaker straight to their PC and ONLY for the PC and plug their monitor and speakers and desk light etc into a different plug connected to a different breaker, and any more than that and everyone would also need to run brand new thicker gauge wiring to their panel or everyone would have to just run it on 240v 3-phase and then get an inverter.

This is why the huge double-sized bitcoin mining PSU that LTT made a video on the other day, needed to be plugged into their 240v outlet.

Either this is a rumour and the person who made it up doesn't know enough about electrical to make it believable, or Intel actually plans to do this and they're absolute retards who don't care about 2/3rds of the world who are using 110/120v. Honestly at this point I can't even decide which is more likely.

20amp outlets are common stateside now. Furthermore, don't know why you think 240v needs any kind of inverter.

Also interesting are the comments about the new efficiency standard competing with the 80 PLUS certification program; Cybenetics:

Fun fact: Cybenetics is owned and operated by @crmaris, TPUs PSU reviewer.

 

[80251]

Different current draw

It would be different all right, tri-SLI with 980Ti's or dual r9 295x2's draws more power than a 3090ti. There might even be more power spikes with tri-SLI or quad-crossfire because 3 or 4 GPU's aren't consistently drawing the same amount of power.

that's cuz intel:
View attachment 251297

you are more than welcome to look at the specs themselves to come to your own conclusion. but there is nothing i see that breaks backward compatibility:

Looniam is this believable? I can see a videocard drawing 450 to 600 Watts from what I've read about peeps with powerful videocards right here, but a CPU drawing 300 Watts but continuously? What game pins any CPU at 100% continuously??!!!!! And how does the rest of the platform draw add up to 300 Watts! How much can the glue logic and chipset of a modern motherboard draw all on its own!???

 

[R-T-B]

Looniam is this believable? I can see a videocard drawing 450 to 600 Watts from what I've read about peeps with powerful videocards right here, but a CPU drawing 300 Watts but continuously? What game pins any CPU at 100% continuously??!!!!! And how does the rest of the platform draw add up to 300 Watts! How much can the glue logic and chipset of a modern motherboard draw all on its own!???

They don't write these specs exclusively for "games." They must consider the peak workload possible.

 

[80251]

They don't write these specs exclusively for "games." They must consider the peak workload possible.

Is cryptomining the alternate usage they consider?

 

[R-T-B]

Is cryptomining the alternate usage they consider?

There's a lot more in the world than games and crypto mining my dude. I doubt crypto even factors in. They are looking at things like HPC, compute stuff, highend servers, etc.

 

[Bill_Bright]

@The red spirit - there seems to be some miscommunication and a lack of understanding about all the uses for portable computers.

There is a HUGE difference between the "luggables" of days past, and the large portables of today. But even today, true "road warriors" - particularly business travelers - don't want to lug around large laptops - even though they may need a mobile computer for their work. It is critical to understand laptops were first developed for business travelers who needed to take their computers with them. And still to this day, the primary users of laptops are in business and education (students and faculty). NOT gamers or casual home users - even in lieu of the fact casual home buyers are a growing segment.

There is a refusal to accept it is an error to claim there are laptops that are "fully" customizable - the initial claim and the point of contention. There is a HUGE difference between "fully" customizable and "As customizable as portable computer could practically get". Fully customizable provides for nearly limitless options from virtually a limitless number of different manufacturers (a major point!) today that can be swapped out for nearly limitless options tomorrow, and even another set of nearly limitless again next week.

A small select handful of a pre-determined set of options from a single source maker hardly defines "fully" or, IMO, even "customizable". It is little more than being able to pick either red, or blue.

They are NOT desktop replacements! One cannot claim a laptop makes for a suitable desktop replacement then in the same sentence say, "as long as gaming isn't desired". That is a total contradiction and makes no sense whatsoever! Also there is a lack of understanding that there are many very high resource demanding tasks besides serious gaming. There are many CAD/CAE and CGI and other tasks that put extreme demands on the components that have nothing to do with gaming.

Even quality tower cases and PC CPU coolers are challenged to provide sufficient cooling when the components in their charge are tasked. No way any laptop case will ever come close to the level of cooling a decent PC case can provide. Therefore, no laptop can ever become a true desktop replacement no matter what the laptop marketing weenies claim and want us to believe.

A true desktop replacement means one can do any task on the laptop they can do on a PC - and without the laptop needing to throttle back in performance due to heat.

Yes, that HP is nice. But you can't even put 32GB of RAM in there. And yes, the Clevo's are nice and do offer a few limited options at the time of purchase. But swap-out/upgrade options are even more limited after the sale.

With a self or truly custom PC, it truly is "fully" customizable as one has nearly limitless options with the ability to mix and match manufacturers just about any way they want.

Those are just the facts. Not my opinion. So please now, let's move on.

Fun fact: Cybenetics is owned and operated by @crmaris, TPUs PSU reviewer.

I did not know that. Thanks.

 

[The red spirit]

It is critical to understand laptops were first developed for business travelers who needed to take their computers with them. And still to this day, the primary users of laptops are in business and education (students and faculty). NOT gamers or casual home users - even in lieu of the fact casual home buyers are a growing segment.

That's why there is Dell XPS. Higher end Ultrabook is exactly the right thing for those people. You get higher end CPU, more RAM, faster and bigger storage and maybe even GTX/RTX xx50 tier GPU. And they are still thin and light.

There is a refusal to accept it is an error to claim there are laptops that are "fully" customizable - the initial claim and the point of contention. There is a HUGE difference between "fully" customizable and "As customizable as portable computer could practically get". Fully customizable provides for nearly limitless options from virtually a limitless number of different manufacturers (a major point!) today that can be swapped out for nearly limitless options tomorrow, and even another set of nearly limitless again next week.

If you want it this way, then you can't even customize desktops that far. You still deal with standards and only one generation of chips supported. It very well describes typical Wintel machine. And every computer will have some limitations anyway. I mena, you still can't buy purple PCB motherboard, consumer motherboard with SCSI ports and expect 2022 motherboard to support Chocolate Lake or whatever lake Intel will have in 16th gen line-up. Therefore you still have "as good as it gets" sameness of desktops too and thus Clevos are truly damn impressive. Probably the most customizable laptop that money buys.

They are NOT desktop replacements! One cannot claim a laptop makes for a suitable desktop replacement then in the same sentence say, "as long as gaming isn't desired". That is a total contradiction and makes no sense whatsoever! Also there is a lack of understanding that there are many very high resource demanding tasks besides serious gaming. There are many CAD/CAE and CGI and other tasks that put extreme demands on the components that have nothing to do with gaming.

Well, CAD isn't terribly demanding on GPU, Intel HD whatever is totally fine for it. Counterpoint is that most desktops don't even have a discrete card either and people buy them and use them. For then that accountant spec 17 inch HP is totally adequate. You want games or GPU for work and you have to look at Dell Latitudes, Lenovo Thinkpads or Razer stuff. But let's be honest, GPU productivity is still super niche thing and if you need it for work, you have GPU enclosures anyway. And if you need computer for that, well you most likely won't be on the go anyway and if you are then laptop with discrete GPU will be good enough for a while. And the most important point is if you need CGI machine, chances are that you are loaded anyway and can afford the top tier laptop. Those people just casually buy Quadro RTX 8000s, they certainly ain't bitching about only affording Intel HD for 500 bucks.

Really, this is what they look like:

And if you still need it all in lappy, well if there's money and demand, then capitalism provides:

Still laptop imo isn't a desktop replacement but a very targeted product for people on the go, but they have improved a lot and there are so many models of them, that you can find something that will likely replace your desktop completely. And then there's this dude, who already lives like that:

The basic consensus here is buy what you actually need and it will suite you just fine, but be prepared to spend a bit for portability and deal with some limitations. If yo ujust buy what yo uneed, you most likely won't need that upgradability that badly.

Even quality tower cases and PC CPU coolers are challenged to provide sufficient cooling when the components in their charge are tasked.

??? How about no? Maybe D15 can't cool i9 12900k with power limits lifted, but at that point you are running it out of official spec. And if you do so, that's kinda on you that will deal with some consequences. It's essentially almost the same as overclocking in terms of thermals and BTW turbo clocks were never ever guaranteed. They are just what you may see if there's extra headroom. If you actually respect standard power limits and clock speeds, then most likely even 212 Evo is sufficient and it's far from truly high end coolers.

With a self or truly custom PC, it truly is "fully" customizable as one has nearly limitless options with the ability to mix and match manufacturers just about any way they want.

Those are just the facts. Not my opinion. So please now, let's move on.

Your facts are very biased towards desktop and quite subjective. BTW I will send you 50 EUR, when you will show me how to put Alder Lake chip in your "limitless upgradability" socket 775 board. I will be stoked.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Your facts are very biased towards desktop and quite subjective.

Facts are facts. They are not subjective.

And yes, I am biased towards PCs. But I still own 2 laptops too and have owned several more. It is you who are making claims about laptops that are not based on fact. Why? Because you clearly are not only biased towards laptops, but you have allowed your biases to influence your opinions and understand of the facts. You just don't understand, or refuse to accept the truth about what it means to be fully customizable.

BTW I will send you 50 EUR, when you will show me how to put Alder Lake chip in your "limitless upgradability" socket 775 board. I will be stoked.

This is proof you don't understand the facts. If I want to put an Alder Lake chip in my limitless upgradable "PC" (I never said motherboards have limitless anything) I can simply replace my entire motherboard to one that supports that chip. Can you swap to a totally different motherboard in your laptop? In any laptop?

If you want it this way, then you can't even customize desktops that far.

There's more proof.

I can swap out every component in my ATX PC case. Then I can swap my case!

There is no more to discuss here.

 

[The red spirit]

Facts are facts. They are not subjective.

And yes, I am biased towards PCs. But I still own 2 laptops too and have owned several more. It is you who are making claims about laptops that are not based on fact. Why? Because you clearly are not only biased towards laptops, but you have allowed your biases to influence your opinions and understand of the facts. You just don't understand, or refuse to accept the truth about what it means to be fully customizable.

And why I would be biased to laptops? I don't really even have a lappy myself. Well I had hand me down HP DV6000, which I upgraded (CPU, RAM, Storage, OS) but it eventually became halftop due to failing hardware (screen and keyboard, obviously battery too since it was almost 15 year old). I once or twice touched my parents lappy and I only had to be "tech support" for grandms lappy, which eventually got SSD upgrade. But my personal daily machine is desktop, my retro curiosity machine is desktop, my HTPC is desktop and my previousuly existing retro computer was also a desktop. If anything, I'm super biased towards desktops and it's my preferable platform of choice. Not even that, all my desktops also had some kind of dedicated graphics cards too and yet it's me who says that lappy without discrete card is perfectly fine to some people. Obviously not me, but somebody who does general productivity, internet browsing and some light entertainment on machine. And now even cheap lappies are fine for poorly threaded bursty CPU workloads. If you spend more you get proper CPU and can do basically the same productivity as on desktop. Despite being biased against that, I actually say that it's oaky and perfectly fine.

Despite not being too experienced in laptops, I still had to take apart that dreadful HP DV6000 completely and it was also me who upgraded it past manufacturer spec. Looking at that thing completely bare it's stupidly obvious why laptops have limited upgradability as they do. Because even this rather low end laptop was really crammed and yet there are even more dense laptops existed as gaming luggables. It was totally understandable and totally fine that some lower end units don't have perfect upgradability and have stuff soldered. Some Ultrabooks like 2013 Sony Vaio Pro were standard 13 inch units that were just 1.06kg heavy, yet had to pack 8GB RAM, i5, 1080p touch screen and an SSD. And of course some things were soldered, but you still could upgrade storage and wireless card. If you want something truly light and thin, there's just no way to make it upgradable and it's acceptable understandable design trade-off. On the other hand you have those Clevo monstrosities, which try to cram full desktop Ryzen 7 chip, cooling for it, upgradable RAM and storage and likely upgradable GPU. Of course it's rather bulky at this point, but I argue with you that if you still want to end up with laptop, that's as good as it gets. Because there's only so much space for all stuff that it needs. And guess what, accommodating high wattage parts costs a lot of space and battery life, accommodating bigger screen would hurt already awful mobility of it and the fact that it has sockets/slots and etc also means that they traded some height. There's only so much that they can grow in dimensions, before becoming completely unportable and really unacceptable. The fact that you can upgrade basically everything except board and chassis is amazing and is surprisingly upgradable. Basically as much as people would really care to upgrade their desktops. You argue that it's not good enough and I'm saying that it's nonsense, well because you can't get absolutely everything as you want in desktop either. And at that point something like Clevo lappy and desktop are essentially just as upgradable.

This is proof you don't understand the facts. If I want to put an Alder Lake chip in my limitless upgradable "PC" (I never said motherboards have limitless anything) I can simply replace my entire motherboard to one that supports that chip. Can you swap to a totally different motherboard in your laptop? In any laptop?

And at that point you essentially just swapped your entire desktop, which isn't exactly the same as upgrading it.

There is no more to discuss here.

I feel that it's true for me too, because you basically resort to arguing that swapping whole desktop or nearly all of its vital components is an "upgrade" not a replacement of machine. Really if desktops were truly limitlessly upgradable I would buy a board and decade later I would only upgrade CPU, not motherboard too. PCIe 5 launched, no prob, I will just swap out my PCIe 4 ports. Dude, accept it, desktops aren't limitlessly upgradable and considering that laptop like Clevo is actually basically nearly the same as just buying a motherboard, CPU and RAM and then everything else. And I remember that in past you could buy the chassis only and then rest of components as you wanted. Shit, that may still exist I would need to investigate it, but anyway Clevo already kind of does the same and since you need other components too and Intel isn't going to sell you a lappy chip, well brands liek Clevo are vital for the most custom laptop possible.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

And why I would be biased to laptops? I don't really even have a lappy myself. Well I had hand me down HP DV6000, which I upgraded (CPU, RAM, Storage, OS) but it eventually became halftop due to failing hardware (screen and keyboard, obviously battery too since it was almost 15 year old). I once or twice touched my parents lappy and I only had to be "tech support" for grandms lappy, which eventually got SSD upgrade. But my personal daily machine is desktop, my retro curiosity machine is desktop, my HTPC is desktop and my previousuly existing retro computer was also a desktop. If anything, I'm super biased towards desktops and it's my preferable platform of choice. Not even that, all my desktops also had some kind of dedicated graphics cards too and yet it's me who says that lappy without discrete card is perfectly fine to some people. Obviously not me, but somebody who does general productivity, internet browsing and some light entertainment on machine. And now even cheap lappies are fine for poorly threaded bursty CPU workloads. If you spend more you get proper CPU and can do basically the same productivity as on desktop. Despite being biased against that, I actually say that it's oaky and perfectly fine.

Despite not being too experienced in laptops, I still had to take apart that dreadful HP DV6000 completely and it was also me who upgraded it past manufacturer spec. Looking at that thing completely bare it's stupidly obvious why laptops have limited upgradability as they do. Because even this rather low end laptop was really crammed and yet there are even more dense laptops existed as gaming luggables. It was totally understandable and totally fine that some lower end units don't have perfect upgradability and have stuff soldered. Some Ultrabooks like 2013 Sony Vaio Pro were standard 13 inch units that were just 1.06kg heavy, yet had to pack 8GB RAM, i5, 1080p touch screen and an SSD. And of course some things were soldered, but you still could upgrade storage and wireless card. If you want something truly light and thin, there's just no way to make it upgradable and it's acceptable understandable design trade-off. On the other hand you have those Clevo monstrosities, which try to cram full desktop Ryzen 7 chip, cooling for it, upgradable RAM and storage and likely upgradable GPU. Of course it's rather bulky at this point, but I argue with you that if you still want to end up with laptop, that's as good as it gets. Because there's only so much space for all stuff that it needs. And guess what, accommodating high wattage parts costs a lot of space and battery life, accommodating bigger screen would hurt already awful mobility of it and the fact that it has sockets/slots and etc also means that they traded some height. There's only so much that they can grow in dimensions, before becoming completely unportable and really unacceptable. The fact that you can upgrade basically everything except board and chassis is amazing and is surprisingly upgradable. Basically as much as people would really care to upgrade their desktops. You argue that it's not good enough and I'm saying that it's nonsense, well because you can't get absolutely everything as you want in desktop either. And at that point something like Clevo lappy and desktop are essentially just as upgradable.



And at that point you essentially just swapped your entire desktop, which isn't exactly the same as upgrading it.



I feel that it's true for me too, because you basically resort to arguing that swapping whole desktop or nearly all of its vital components is an "upgrade" not a replacement of machine. Really if desktops were truly limitlessly upgradable I would buy a board and decade later I would only upgrade CPU, not motherboard too. PCIe 5 launched, no prob, I will just swap out my PCIe 4 ports. Dude, accept it, desktops aren't limitlessly upgradable and considering that laptop like Clevo is actually basically nearly the same as just buying a motherboard, CPU and RAM and then everything else. And I remember that in past you could buy the chassis only and then rest of components as you wanted. Shit, that may still exist I would need to investigate it, but anyway Clevo already kind of does the same and since you need other components too and Intel isn't going to sell you a lappy chip, well brands liek Clevo are vital for the most custom laptop possible.

Most of the laptops that you can configure broadly are locked in from purchase, with no extra replaceable parts. Some you can swap/self build but are still not manufacturer-agnostic, which I think is Bill's hangup. I can take my desktop from 10 years ago, and reuse everything but motherboard, CPU, and RAM and make a modern system out of it. Laptops can be upgraded reasonably, some more so, but they are definitely not as configurable as desktops.

Back on topic, wouldn't the new 16-pin connector require an upgrade/replacement? Thought I suppose PSU makers will build in legacy connectors and people will build ghetto adapters...

 

[The red spirit]

Most of the laptops that you can configure broadly are locked in from purchase, with no extra replaceable parts. Some you can swap/self build but are still not manufacturer-agnostic, which I think is Bill's hangup. I can take my desktop from 10 years ago, and reuse everything but motherboard, CPU, and RAM and make a modern system out of it. Laptops can be upgraded reasonably, some more so, but they are definitely not as configurable as desktops.

Sure, but I quite specifically quoted Clevo laptops because they aren't exactly your typical laptops. They have built some reputation for that. There were more, but I don't recall their brands well. Maybe Sager? Out of more typical brands, well old Alienwares, Thinkpads, Latitudes and Elitebooks were quite good at upgradability aspects. Even on budget you can find some upgradable machines, I quickly found HP 255 G8. Upgradable RAM, storage, maybe screen too. Not bad for like cheapest of the heap new lappy in Lithuania. And if you buy say Alienware or some other actually high end laptop, you might find some low power desktop CPU in them, which means that they are somewhat upgradable, but I suppose if you are loaded anyway, you can afford to just toss entire machine, once it's old and unsatisfactory. Something like Thinkpad or XPS is way more attainable and would be good to have them upgradable.

But yes, it might be the right time to stop derailing thread.

 

[R-T-B]

Maybe Sager

Sager is just rebranded Clevo. Always has been.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

Sager is just rebranded Clevo. Always has been.

@The red spirit check out framework laptop.

 

[Rahnak]

Hear it straight from "the man" (Intel). Pretty good interview, I thought.

 

[sneekypeet]

A full page about laptops in a PSU specs thread.... Seems logical

 

[terroralpha]

if we already have a good PSU (like a corsair AX1600i) i'm assuming all we will need is new cables?

You can't get more than 1800w out of a modern 120v @ 15A outlet so people would need to start running a line from their breaker straight to their PC and ONLY for the PC and plug their monitor and speakers and desk light etc into a different plug connected to a different breaker, and any more than that and everyone would also need to run brand new thicker gauge wiring to their panel or everyone would have to just run it on 240v 3-phase and then get an inverter.

This is why the huge double-sized bitcoin mining PSU that LTT made a video on the other day, needed to be plugged into their 240v outlet.

Either this is a rumour and the person who made it up doesn't know enough about electrical to make it believable, or Intel actually plans to do this and they're absolute retards who don't care about 2/3rds of the world who are using 110/120v. Honestly at this point I can't even decide which is more likely.

it's just handful of stupid countries (USA, japan, etc.) holding up the world. most places are using 220v. the condominium i live in (in NYC) was built in 2007 with 110v and 220v outlets in every room, and i've been using the 220V outlets for my PC. but the appliances that i would like to use are hard to find or don't exist because the market for them is not big enough. for example, try finding a good 220V space heater in the US.

 

[Dirt Chip]

2000-1800 W for a few milliseconds, Not continues use.
Quality PSU can handle 2.5-3 time their rated W for a few ms even if it 2.xx ATX.
So Keep calm and keep using your current PSU.
ATX 3.0 changes nothing.