Intel Core i9-13900KS

[CGLBESE]

I've only had mine for a couple of days, but I can assure there's nothing NetBurst about this! It's really the real deal, having your cake and eating it too. That still comes at the cost of power consumption, sadly, but it's got every checkbox ticked otherwise.

Pentium 4 was hot and slow, this one isn't even hot unless you really push it to the limit on conventional cooling, but then again I can argue, isn't that on the user? Special binned processor with conventional cooling, I guess? I purchased it for the binning and flexibility, myself

Perhaps my call is a bit too early... But I personally feel (it's only an impression based on the current numbers, and I can always be corrected, of course ;-)) that it is the swan's song of this architecture. I mean, those consumption numbers are far too high. I remember the P4C being very good (as were previous Skylake iterations) but the P4EE was the step "too far" in my opinion: still competitive, but abusing the power cord... the final nail on the coffin being the release of the Athlon 64X2 line while Intel was still struggling with the Pentium D/EE.

But once again, it is only my view on the matter ;-)

 

[R0H1T]

It's hardly unprecedented, did anyone forget what chips they were "respinning" from 6700k till 10900k?

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Perhaps my call is a bit too early... But I personally feel (it's only an impression based on the current numbers, and I can always be corrected, of course ;-)) that it is the swan's song of this architecture. I mean, those consumption numbers are far too high. I remember the P4C being very good (as were previous Skylake iterations) but the P4EE was the step "too far" in my opinion: still competitive, but abusing the power cord... the final nail on the coffin being the release of the Athlon 64X2 line while Intel was still struggling with the Pentium D/EE.

But once again, it is only my view on the matter ;-)

Apparently there is going to be a Raptorlake refresh later this year. So it isn't the swan song yet......

 

[R0H1T]

More like drown yourself in a lake because that AIO ain't gonna cut it

Spoiler

 

[Frozoken]

Good shit tech power up. Use lower mid range ram with the f*cking ks because that's totally how someone's going to configure their system who's paying like 40% more for 5% extra performance. Not even defending intel here but this has to be some of the most blatant bias I've seen, processor is extremely niche at best, I'm not saying it's remotely good but you are NOT reviewing fairly.

 

[Denver]

You are right, intel says to use @ 5600, and using above that voids the warranty. Thanks for noting.

Good shit tech power up. Use lower mid range ram with the f*cking ks because that's totally how someone's going to configure their system who's paying like 40% more for 5% extra performance. Not even defending intel here but this has to be some of the most blatant bias I've seen, processor is extremely niche at best, I'm not saying it's remotely good but you are NOT reviewing fairly.

 

[R0H1T]

Well if you have spare kidneys maybe you'll spend the extra $500 on that top of the line "ultra enthusiast" RAM?

 

[JustBenching]

You are right, intel says to use @ 5600, and using above that voids the warranty. Thanks for noting.

And AMD says to use 5200 or else it voids the warranty but didn't seem to bother you

 

[Dr. Dro]

Perhaps my call is a bit too early... But I personally feel (it's only an impression based on the current numbers, and I can always be corrected, of course ;-)) that it is the swan's song of this architecture. I mean, those consumption numbers are far too high. I remember the P4C being very good (as were previous Skylake iterations) but the P4EE was the step "too far" in my opinion: still competitive, but abusing the power cord... the final nail on the coffin being the release of the Athlon 64X2 line while Intel was still struggling with the Pentium D/EE.

But once again, it is only my view on the matter ;-)

I actually agree, it most certainly is the swan song of the architecture. Its successors will be built on the foundation left by Alder Lake, of which Raptor is basically a refinement and this specific processor represents the magnum opus of said architecture - it's about as good as the Alder platform will ever be. For people looking for a complete, refined, done deal platform like I was, it's quite an attractive proposition. I don't plan on changing anything on my PC for quite some time.

Meteor and Arrow, followed by Lunar Lake will probably take a different design direction, if Meteor's core counts are confirmed to top off at 6P+8E. Possibly even by looking unattractive next to Raptor at first, but it will surely develop into a beast of its own kind. Zen 4 represented the same moment for AMD, it's really not a CPU any Zen 3 owner lost sleep over, and the Zen 3D sealed the deal on that to the point AMD was compelled to release the Zen 4 X3D CPUs in earnest to retake its market performance.

Apparently there is going to be a Raptorlake refresh later this year. So it isn't the swan song yet......

I can't see any of the RPL refresh CPUs being better than this specific SKU. Remember, Intel's refreshes usually target the lower end. Comet Lake's refresh didn't even make past i3, and the difference between i3-10100 and i3-10105 was entirely negligible.

Good shit tech power up. Use lower mid range ram with the f*cking ks because that's totally how someone's going to configure their system who's paying like 40% more for 5% extra performance. Not even defending intel here but this has to be some of the most blatant bias I've seen, processor is extremely niche at best, I'm not saying it's remotely good but you are NOT reviewing fairly.

Honestly, here's my take on it. I opted for a high-end Z690 motherboard (MSI MEG Z690 ACE) that I got from a dude who was selling it practically unused for a very nice price, personal reasons seemingly plastered all over it. Happy not to pry, I took it off his hands. It's luxurious indeed, it has every feature under the sun and every functionality I could ever want out of a motherboard. DDR5-6400 is about where it walled for me, being a 4-dimm design. Reasonable to assume that most lower-end Z790s are going to perform even worse than this board did, and it failed to run my QVL'd, mind you, 6800 C34 kit at native XMP.

Running 5600 with high memory capacities is more realistic than 7200-7600 on 2-DIMM memory XOC-ready boards such as the Maximus Apex or the MEG Unify-X, even for buyers of the 13900KS. Yet W1zz ran it at 6000? Seems fair to me.

 

[Denver]

And AMD says to use 5200 or else it voids the warranty but didn't seem to bother you

AMD has never denied warranty for something like this, while intel has an endless list. Believe it or not.

Anyway it would be an interesting test to see how much the cache cancels out the effect of faster ram.

 

[Dr. Dro]

AMD has never denied warranty for something like this, while intel has an endless list. Believe it or not.

Anyway it would be an interesting test to see how much the cache cancels out the effect of faster ram.

"Hi Officer, yes yes I am carrying this big bag of illegal drugs! Please don't arrest me."

- about as guillible as someone who tells RMA departments they ran their hardware off-spec while attempting to exchange a dead CPU.

AMD has denied people warranties on very real, mass scale issues that were eventually admitted and confirmed by the company as recently as this year, see: MBA 7900 XTX vapor chamber woes.

Clubism is stupid.

 

[Chrispy_]

Indeed. I'm going to agree, and point out that the KS is not for 99.9% of people, and I would argue that includes the small portion of people who purchase things like the regular i9-13900K.

This is just glorious, though! It's like having your cake and eating it too. High IPC + fairly generous amount of cache + high frequencies = win

View attachment 292642

As for workstation performance, that niche's been shafted. If you reasonably need more than what a 7950X/X3D or i9-13900K/KS can do, you'll pretty much have to wait for Alder Lake-X (if that's not cancelled - at this point it probably is), or adopt one of Intel's exotic Xeon w9/AMD's Threadripper Pro processors at a ma$$ive amount of dosh. Adopting an older Threadripper or LGA3467 Xeon is probably a bad idea, these desktop-grade CPUs are generally faster, including at AVX-512 if you opt for Zen 4.

Out of interest, did you have a regular 13900K prior to this? I'm curious to see if the KS is binned for power-efficiency or binned for clocks. I don't really follow the LN2 crowd but based off a few Der8auer and GN LN2 livestreams with multiple samples, it seems more often than not that the leakier, less efficient silicon that can be pushed the furthest.

 

[SL2]

Anyway it would be an interesting test to see how much the cache cancels out the effect of faster ram.

Here you go. (Assumed you were talking about Ryzen 3D when you talked about cache, but I might be way off.. )

Spoiler

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D Memory Scaling Benchmark

Pairing fast RAM with a top-end CPU is a logical choice, but what happens when that processor is a Ryzen 9 7950X3D with 128 MB of cache?...

www.techspot.com

 

[Dr. Dro]

Out of interest, did you have a regular 13900K prior to this? I'm curious to see if the KS is binned for power-efficiency or binned for clocks. I don't really follow the LN2 crowd but based off a few Der8auer and GN LN2 livestreams with multiple samples, it seems more often than not that the leakier, less efficient silicon that can be pushed the furthest.

No, not really. I used to have a R9 5950X. But your theory holds water, if you ask me. I imagine it's binned the exact opposite of a CPU that is sold as i9-13900T (for least leaky possible).

 

[Deleted member 223428]

Out of interest, did you have a regular 13900K prior to this? I'm curious to see if the KS is binned for power-efficiency or binned for clocks. I don't really follow the LN2 crowd but based off a few Der8auer and GN LN2 livestreams with multiple samples, it seems more often than not that the leakier, less efficient silicon that can be pushed the furthest.

Read this very review. W1zz’s 13900k used more power than the KS.

(Our 13900K seems to be a worse bin than the 13900KS that runs higher voltage in games, resulting in higher power consumption)

 

[Drash]

Indeed. I'm going to agree, and point out that the KS is not for 99.9% of people, and I would argue that includes the small portion of people who purchase things like the regular i9-13900K.

This is just glorious, though! It's like having your cake and eating it too. High IPC + fairly generous amount of cache + high frequencies = win

View attachment 292642

As for workstation performance, that niche's been shafted. If you reasonably need more than what a 7950X/X3D or i9-13900K/KS can do, you'll pretty much have to wait for Alder Lake-X (if that's not cancelled - at this point it probably is), or adopt one of Intel's exotic Xeon w9/AMD's Threadripper Pro processors at a ma$$ive amount of dosh. Adopting an older Threadripper or LGA3467 Xeon is probably a bad idea, these desktop-grade CPUs are generally faster, including at AVX-512 if you opt for Zen 4.

Off topic, but when you're paying £30k a seat per year licence, plus same again x Y (where 2 < Y > 5) wages plus all the other incidentals (measurement tools & upkeep < £1M) a "crappy" £10k workstation is a consumable. Edge case admittedly.

 

[eveluvsrainbows]

I think it might simply be amd's drivers for win10 being VERY subpar, as the ones i see with the issues all use win10.

Maybe don’t use windows 10 then? Newer CPUs are optimized for Windows 11, not Windows 10. Ryzen 7000 series came out a year after the launch of Windows 11, there’s less prioritization on supporting Windows 10 because of the fact that Windows 11 is typically preinstalled on newer machines.

 

[Denver]

"Hi Officer, yes yes I am carrying this big bag of illegal drugs! Please don't arrest me."

- about as guillible as someone who tells RMA departments they ran their hardware off-spec while attempting to exchange a dead CPU.

AMD has denied people warranties on very real, mass scale issues that were eventually admitted and confirmed by the company as recently as this year, see: MBA 7900 XTX vapor chamber woes.

Clubism is stupid.

In the case of the RMA process, for an assembled PC, you show the invoice saying all the components you used, including the ram. You have no options.

Yeah, but I think completely dead CPUs are more of a problem than GPUs still working, despite the flaws.

 

[Dr. Dro]

In the case of the RMA process, for an assembled PC, you show the invoice saying all the components you used, including the ram. You have no options.

Yeah, but I think completely dead CPUs are more of a problem than GPUs still working, despite the flaws.

By no means faster than spec RAM on the QVL is grounds for warranty termination, really.

 

[mechtech]

My 29,000W air conditioner laughs at your paltry electric clothes dryer.

In all seriousness though, as an enthusiast who really wants to build two new machines, this isn't it.

Over 8-Ton AC unit..................that's impressive!!!! That even outdoes the forced air electric furnace 20kW (100A breaker) that I kicked to the curb when I bought the place. You must have a 400Amp service and a 150A breaker for that AC unit??

 

[Denver]

By no means faster than spec RAM on the QVL is grounds for warranty termination, really.

It shouldn't be, but who knows what goes through the minds of intel employees "you pushed the IMC beyond the limit so your cpu died" I'd rather not have to deal with this

 

[Tomgang]

Holy f.... 355 watt stock and over 400 watt with OC. That´s just as much powr as a high-end gpu. This it nuts. No thanks. Yeah it´s cool and all with that 6 GHz, but the power consumption penelty, heat out put and needed cooling for this chip and pricing. Makes it apselutely not worfh it. It is operating way out of it´s efficient area, the same goes for amd zen 4 x models cpu´s.

With the power consumption Zen 4 and intels chips sipping now a days. I am hornestly glad i chose amd zen 3. Ways less power consumption and heat output and most importen for me, way better to aircool, than the current gen of cpu´s from amd and intel. They bofh need at least a big AIO and prefer a custom water loop to keep temp in tjeck.

 

[JustBenching]

Holy f.... 355 watt stock and over 400 watt with OC. That´s just as much powr as a high-end gpu. This it nuts. No thanks. Yeah it´s cool and all with that 6 GHz, but the power consumption penelty, heat out put and needed cooling for this chip and pricing. Makes it apselutely not worfh it. It is operating way out of it´s efficient area, the same goes for amd zen 4 x models cpu´s.

With the power consumption Zen 4 and intels chips sipping now a days. I am hornestly glad i chose amd zen 3. Ways less power consumption and heat output and most importen for me, way better to aircool, than the current gen of cpu´s from amd and intel. They bofh need at least a big AIO and prefer a custom water loop to keep temp in tjeck.

You do realize that both this CPU and zen 4 are way more efficient than your 5950x if you just....simply press a single button and power limit them, right???

 

[Drash]

Money no object it would definately be 7950X3D vs 13900K, maybe not KS given the shown £/gain ratio.

On a budget; 13700K vs. 7800X3D.

Reviews don't seem to show the whole picture unfortunately. W1zz gives performance numbers I feel I can trust, but there is sooo much more to the story (for me at least) which I'm not sure belongs in or can even be quantified in a HW review. Namely (from, maybe excessive, forum research or just news articles) in no particular order:

AMD+: power consumption, auto OC, gaming performance/£, slight AMD fanboy problem in that I dont like Nvidia sharp practices and have been bitten by past HW bugs, socket longevity, more PCIE lanes
AMD-: USB issues, BIOS issues - many AGESA updates sort of indicate this, needing to know what -30 PBO is, my perception MS W10/11 just not favouring them, limited DDR5 b/w, X3D core affinity
Intel+: single core performance, superficially seems fit and forget, MS seems(?) to favour Intel, better DDR5 b/w, P + E cores seem to be handled better by MS.
Intel-: power consumption - although this is controversial (apparently??), Spectre/meltdown type issues, socket EOL, less PCIE lanes.

As much as I want a 7800X3D I have this nagging doubt.

I'm still rocking a 6700K and am out of the modern loop, but the 6700K was very differnt from the preceeding C2D E8600, my next CPU will be the same.

Given the marketing (E) cores on a 13700K are 2x (ish) a 6700K, plus 8 P cores @ +1GHz and +20% (ish???) IPC of a 6700K, I think the upgrade experience for me might be similar to a NASA Apollo moon scientist going from the computing power of a Casio smartwatch to a modern workstation. It's my cash and I'm apparently still worrying about this. I think I need a life and spend more time with my kids! But at least this hobby is cheaper than my dream 993.

 

[Tomgang]

You do realize that both this CPU and zen 4 are way more efficient than your 5950x if you just....simply press a single button and power limit them, right???

Yes i am a where that they are more efficient. But it dosent change that amd and intel are pushing these cpu´s way out of there eficient range, compared to zen 3. The temperature and power consumption shows that. Just to put some numbers. 5950X tdp is 105 watt but more like 141 watt in real life however 7950X is 170 while its 230 watt in real life. Intel 13900K is more like around 300 watt and 13900KS is 355 watt is seems. Intel amd just let there cpus sipping more and more power and opperate out of where they most efficient. Just to get that last piece of performance that comes with high temperatures and power consumption. Even with PBO my 5950X max out at 200 watt. stil less than 7950X do stock.