Is a Hamilton Beach TrueAir air purifier sufficient to prevent dust buildup in my PC, or should I also get extra case fans?

[Segundoh]

Air purifiers absolutely help in keeping your gear cleaner. My home is old, built in the 50s so dust is a constant battle. As a result, I have purifiers in every room that run 24/7. Keeping the filters clean is imperative with your purifier. Whether you go with a replaceable filter or the kind you remove and hand wash or vacuum off.
Despite having them on all the time, dust build up will still occur, it's inevitable. The scale will be far lower with a purifier.
In regards to your question about adding an intake to the bottom of your case. That's going to require far more attention. PSU intakes and lower intakes always get gummed up faster than any of the other intakes on my cases If they are filtered (as they should be). Altho a quick vacuum and the exteriors are clean again but...you will find that very fine dust gets through your filters. A data vac is great for most of the easy to get to areas. Then there's the pita to clean dust. It seems to stick to everything via static, especially fan blades. This is the stuff that requires
anti-static brushes to clean off completely. You can get them anywhere. Anti-static paint brushes, makeup brushes, acid brushes etc... there are a variety to choose from.
I despise cleaning my cases. So, I never leave my rigs running, never allow pets in my office and always leave my purifier on high when I'm not in there. Other than quick filter vacs once a month, I generally only need to do deep cleanings every 6-8 months.
GL with your dust war!!!

It’s good to hear that air purifiers help, at least. I’ll be sure to wssh and vacuum my air purifier regularly then. And it definitely makes sense that some dust buildup will still occur. And I see, so lower intake fans would actually make things worse. I don’t want to deal with extra complications for sure. I’ll still use a Datavac though when I need to.

I purchased this magnetic screwdriver kit that came with a brush: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0822FJ8YG?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

is this an antistatic brush? I already used it to clean some debris in my PCIE slot so I sure hope so lol. It has a crossed out ESD symbol which apparently is used for parts that are sensitive to static. I’m not sure what that means on a brush though since a non-crossed out ESD symbol is apparently used for antistatic items. I may have messed up here…

I always leave my rig off too when I’m not using it, so that’ll help for sure. I’ll also leave my purifier on. It’s good to hear that you only have to deep clean it 2 times a year; that is not too bad for sure, so I’ll follow those steps.

If you want to avoid dust, you'll want to look up the Air Exchange Rate for the loosest-spec Cleanrooms.

Consumer air cleaners are roughly based off general HVAC AERs, and woefully insufficient for those with MCS/Allergies or long-term computer equipment operation (like a server room, or homelab).

For general dust reduction, you'd be better off with a couple pleated MERV8+ filters in an A-frame arrangement off the back of a box fan. Noisy, but considerably more air exchanges through the filter media than most 'air cleaners'.

Semi-related:
avoid ionizers.
They'll charge the air, and you *WILL* ESD into anything and everything at a lower potential.

I see I see. I’ll look into the air exchange rate for this then. I’ll look into MERV8+ filters as well for that. I don’t mind if it’s noisy as long as it works. I also made sure to specifically get something that isn’t an ionize.

That is a good unit. You will also need to remember that regular vacuuming is also essential for keeping dust out of a particular environment. Nothing is ever perfect, but simple methods will help greatly.

It’s good to hear that works well and will greatly reduce dust buildup. I’ll vacuum regularly as well to get rid of a lot of dust too. I’ll definitely avoid ionizers as well. Thanks!

It's whatever you can afford. Lets go with that first. I like to tackle the entire room and not one small area as of course you are also breathing all of that dust as well.

A used Bionaire will cost you around here $25 to $50. New ones cost a lot more. Air filter Cartridges will cost you $10 to $14 each change. But you can clean out the filter with a vacuum cleaner to make them last longer. Or you can make your own filter as well for $1-2 dollars like I do for the smaller units. You can place your smaller unit closer to your working area/ computer and get almost the same results as the larger unit.

A larger unit like my Breath Smart will cost out $400 new. Used $150 and up. Filters can be expensive but you can get generic. Filter cleaning is important and has to be done at least every 2 months as it really picks up the dust in your room/area and you just use a vacuum cleaner for it. Filters cost $50+ for generic $80+ for regular. You can make them last depending on your environment 6 months to a year. I'm in the 8 month range but as stated before I vacuum my filter as needed and that is at minimum 2 months


If you really want to get inventive, here are a lot of videos on the DIY aspect on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=diy+air+purifier

For the record many of these do the job of getting dust out of the air but the deciding factor is the filter itself with all air purifiers/diy

For the Record. One of my successful businesses (before retiring) was in building cleaning and maintenance. I had to know all of this information on what is to be used in HVAC systems and ratings.

What is a MERV rating? | US EPA

Minimum Efficiency Reporting Values, or MERVs, report a filter's ability to capture larger particles between 0.3 and 10 microns (µm). This value is helpful in comparing the performance of different filters The rating is derived from a test m

www.epa.gov

There will always be tradeoffs. This information given is opinion only. It is not gospel. It is what works for me.

So in Ending. IMHO

If you do not have the money. You might want to do a Diy project.
If you have some money you can go and buy a small used air purifier.
If you have more money you buy a used large air purifer.

If you have eyeballs of money then you buy new.

Maybe I got lucky but the reason why I said used is that the ones I picked up lasted me 5 or more years before needing repairs that I can do myself. It costed me less than 1 dollar a month I spent on a Bionaire and again your mileage will vary. And yea I would do it again if I had a smaller room or a single bedroom that needed one.

My Breath Smart is virtually a glorified high volume squirrel cage fan, with electronic do dads on it and a HEPA filter, that has a skin that makes it all looks nice. But its air cleaning area is good for over 1000 sf of room and it does the job well.

But over the years 46 years to be exact of seeing and using a box fan with a filter in the back in work shop type of environments... so yea they work too.

So I can get a used Bionaire for that much. That’s a good price for sure so I’ll look into that. It’s good to hear I can at least vacuum the filters to reuse them. I didn’t realize I can just make my own filter too, so I’ll definitely look into that. how close should my small air filter be to my PC? I don’t have enough outlet space for my filter to be right next to my PC, but it is still fairly close. I’ll measure the distance between my filter and my PC when

I’ll also look into your Breathsmart as that seems to be worth it even with those expensive filters. I think I’ll go with generics though to save some money.

Those DIY filters are really cool! I’ll have to try my hand at some of them. They’ll be cheaper and maybe even work better too. I’d say I have enough money for a small used air filter, but I’ll try out those DIY filters first. It’s great that yours lasted 5 years and then even longer with repairs. I doubt that Hamilton Beach one will last anywhere near as long, so I suppose buying a better air purifier is very useful in that case.

Your BreathSmart definitely sounds amazing seeing as though it’s good for 1000 square feet and has all those DIY improvements. I’ll have to see about modifying my filters too if I don’t make DIY ones. It’s good that a filter works well enough, at least though. Thanks for all the help! I’ll report back with the distance between my purifier and PC lol.

LOL, a low end consumer device powerful enough to bring that reality into existence? Theory falls apart when faced with modern manufacturing all too quickly here. Having a button for ionization will allow removing a larger selection of (mostly smoking related) particle sizes.

There are of course conditions where ESD and other hazards to electronics are already exaggerated enough you would do well to avoid multiplying the effect. Again, reality is those particles will rapidly decharge based on the airborne contents of most computer gaming stations (smaller spaces you have been or will be breathing, eating, etc. in).



Pretty bright since they will attract and capture particles moving past and into them while being air permeable enough to allow heat exchange.

I did hear that ionizers are dangerous to breathe in as well, but is that just overblown as well since the particles will rapidly recharge and all? I don’t smoke tbough, so I guess I don’t need it as much as a smoker lol. Also, I’ll definitely go with that furnace filter idea. That’s a great idea and will definitely help a lot.

Speak for yourself...

Circumstances:
-<1000cubic foot room, 2nd story apt. Riverside, CA

-Surround Air XJ-3800

-(painted) Metal Desk

Took me over a week to figure out that the Air Cleaner's ionizer was the cause of near-constant ESDs to my metal desk, and the occasional crash when inserting USB devices.

I 'got a clue' when earthing the desk INCREASED the intensity and frequency of the ESDs.

Sticking a screwdriver down into the Purifier's exhaust (while unplugged, and the driver's shaft earthed) and disconnecting the power to the Ionizer 100% resolved the ESDing.

So, sorry: You're (mostly) incorrect.

ESD hazards are indeed overblown... But only when ambient humidity is favorable and there are not extenuating factors involved. Which, to be fair, is the case for most home-users.

Interesting, so that can happen in some cases. I don’t know how favorable or unfavorable my ambient humidity is or if there are any extentuating factors, but I wouldn’t want to risk it knowing my luck lol. I’ll definitely just avoid those for sure.

Fans moving through air produce a static charge which attracts dust, ahir etc. The only way to keep any electronic free of dust is to have it hermetically sealed with water cooling or very low power fanless devices and using wireless tech on all input and output devices, and have the power plug hermetically sealed on the PSU...


I've killed ram and a a few usb drive via esd...

I see, so there’s no way to really completely get rid of it aside from weird and probably unrealistic solutions like that. Well, it is what it is I guess; I’ll have to clean it out at some point then. And I see, so ESD can still cause issues. I’m being careful with an antistatic wristband and an antistatic mat just to be safe. Thanks!

 

[LabRat 891]

I see I see. I’ll look into the air exchange rate for this then. I’ll look into MERV8+ filters as well for that. I don’t mind if it’s noisy as long as it works. I also made sure to specifically get something that isn’t an ionize.

Here's some handy charts for ASHRAE MERV ratings, and Clean Room specs.
The ISO 8/Class 100,000 standards, aren't difficult to meet (or at least, 'approach') for a home or office space.

Those DIY filters are really cool! I’ll have to try my hand at some of them. They’ll be cheaper and maybe even work better too. I’d say I have enough money for a small used air filter, but I’ll try out those DIY filters first. It’s great that yours lasted 5 years and then even longer with repairs. I doubt that Hamilton Beach one will last anywhere near as long, so I suppose buying a better air purifier is very useful in that case.

Word of warning on DIY air cleaners, from experience:
Never put a single filter directly on the back of a box fan.

Box Fans are Axial Fans, and develop VERY little static pressure.
Not only will it underperform, the motor of the fan depends on airflow around it. I've burnt up two fans 'being lazy' and just taping a 20x20x1 filter on.
I've also tried a single 20x20x4 filter, and it works much better, but 'A-framing' 2 filters on the intake side of the box fan has worked best. It creates a nice 'plenum' for both negative pressure to build, and a place for air to cool the motor. I use cardboard and shipping tape for covering the 'open legs' of the A-frame.

edit
(Oh, another thing w/ DIY box fan air cleaners: do pay attention to the indicated airflow direction on the pleated filters themselves. I think it has more to do w/ their structural integrity under (negative) pressure than filtering-ability, but it's an important and easily-overlooked detail, nonetheless)

of note on pleated 'furnace filters':
Most 'consumer-faced' pleated air filters are not advertised by a MERV rating; they will have some 'marketing-friendly' semi-standard.
Occasionally, you can find refrence on the manufactures' website for the equivalent MERV rating, other times you'll have to read their own 'standards' and do the math yourself to find the closest MERV-equivalent. If you don't got time for that, know that just about any filter that advertises "reducing mold spores" will be somewhere between a MERV 5-8. Which, is IMO the lowest filter ratings that will noticeably reduce dust buildup (with sufficient air exchanges). The 'effciency' is basically the percentage of 'target particle size(s)' captured on each pass; the more passes, the more is captured.

BTW, I'm not an HVAC tech. or anything like that. I've had nasty allergies that I'd tried for years to tame w/ air cleaning; and anything other than DIY is just too expensive.
Basically as far as 'facts, not anecdotes' go, I've read case studies on commercial HVAC, and have spent many hours researching filters. There's always more to learn, and memory is fallible, especially when not regularly exercised (ie, non-professional).

 

[eidairaman1]

It’s good to hear that air purifiers help, at least. I’ll be sure to wssh and vacuum my air purifier regularly then. And it definitely makes sense that some dust buildup will still occur. And I see, so lower intake fans would actually make things worse. I don’t want to deal with extra complications for sure. I’ll still use a Datavac though when I need to.

I purchased this magnetic screwdriver kit that came with a brush: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0822FJ8YG?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

is this an antistatic brush? I already used it to clean some debris in my PCIE slot so I sure hope so lol. It has a crossed out ESD symbol which apparently is used for parts that are sensitive to static. I’m not sure what that means on a brush though since a non-crossed out ESD symbol is apparently used for antistatic items. I may have messed up here…

I always leave my rig off too when I’m not using it, so that’ll help for sure. I’ll also leave my purifier on. It’s good to hear that you only have to deep clean it 2 times a year; that is not too bad for sure, so I’ll follow those steps.



I see I see. I’ll look into the air exchange rate for this then. I’ll look into MERV8+ filters as well for that. I don’t mind if it’s noisy as long as it works. I also made sure to specifically get something that isn’t an ionize.

It’s good to hear that works well and will greatly reduce dust buildup. I’ll vacuum regularly as well to get rid of a lot of dust too. I’ll definitely avoid ionizers as well. Thanks!

So I can get a used Bionaire for that much. That’s a good price for sure so I’ll look into that. It’s good to hear I can at least vacuum the filters to reuse them. I didn’t realize I can just make my own filter too, so I’ll definitely look into that. how close should my small air filter be to my PC? I don’t have enough outlet space for my filter to be right next to my PC, but it is still fairly close. I’ll measure the distance between my filter and my PC when

I’ll also look into your Breathsmart as that seems to be worth it even with those expensive filters. I think I’ll go with generics though to save some money.

Those DIY filters are really cool! I’ll have to try my hand at some of them. They’ll be cheaper and maybe even work better too. I’d say I have enough money for a small used air filter, but I’ll try out those DIY filters first. It’s great that yours lasted 5 years and then even longer with repairs. I doubt that Hamilton Beach one will last anywhere near as long, so I suppose buying a better air purifier is very useful in that case.

Your BreathSmart definitely sounds amazing seeing as though it’s good for 1000 square feet and has all those DIY improvements. I’ll have to see about modifying my filters too if I don’t make DIY ones. It’s good that a filter works well enough, at least though. Thanks for all the help! I’ll report back with the distance between my purifier and PC lol.

I did hear that ionizers are dangerous to breathe in as well, but is that just overblown as well since the particles will rapidly recharge and all? I don’t smoke tbough, so I guess I don’t need it as much as a smoker lol. Also, I’ll definitely go with that furnace filter idea. That’s a great idea and will definitely help a lot.

Interesting, so that can happen in some cases. I don’t know how favorable or unfavorable my ambient humidity is or if there are any extentuating factors, but I wouldn’t want to risk it knowing my luck lol. I’ll definitely just avoid those for sure.

I see, so there’s no way to really completely get rid of it aside from weird and probably unrealistic solutions like that. Well, it is what it is I guess; I’ll have to clean it out at some point then. And I see, so ESD can still cause issues. I’m being careful with an antistatic wristband and an antistatic mat just to be safe. Thanks!

You can geab bare metal chassis and be ok

 

[LabRat 891]

Fans moving through air produce a static charge which attracts dust, ahir etc. The only way to keep any electronic free of dust is to have it hermetically sealed with water cooling or very low power fanless devices and using wireless tech on all input and output devices, and have the power plug hermetically sealed on the PSU...


I've killed ram and a a few usb drive via esd...

Ya know... I'd been contemplating how one would build a 'sealed PC' for years.
Closest I've come to a practical vision uses 'basically MagSafe' connectors, for all external I/O.

The idea started as a way to have a PC 'hardened against EMP', but allow it to be used normally, and use 'off-the-shelf' internals. The small non-mil/industrial market for such things, seem to love throwing money at stuff that doesn't work; so, I figured something that actually worked might be worthwhile.

Problem is: It's easy enough to design a sealable hardened enclosure for storing and transporting; it's much harder designing one that's hardened during operation.
Even, if you're just trying to keep ALL dust out (like the nano-micro 'sandbox' dust), it's not easy for an in-operation chassis/enclosure. Things like temperature differentials and expansion coefficients of materials come into play at every seam.

 

[Segundoh]

Here's some handy charts for ASHRAE MERV ratings, and Clean Room specs.
The ISO 8/Class 100,000 standards, aren't difficult to meet (or at least, 'approach') for a home or office space.

Word of warning on DIY air cleaners, from experience:
Never put a single filter directly on the back of a box fan.

Box Fans are Axial Fans, and develop VERY little static pressure.
Not only will it underperform, the motor of the fan depends on airflow around it. I've burnt up two fans 'being lazy' and just taping a 20x20x1 filter on.
I've also tried a single 20x20x4 filter, and it works much better, but 'A-framing' 2 filters on the intake side of the box fan has worked best. It creates a nice 'plenum' for both negative pressure to build, and a place for air to cool the motor. I use cardboard and shipping tape for covering the 'open legs' of the A-frame.

edit
(Oh, another thing w/ DIY box fan air cleaners: do pay attention to the indicated airflow direction on the pleated filters themselves. I think it has more to do w/ their structural integrity under (negative) pressure than filtering-ability, but it's an important and easily-overlooked detail, nonetheless)

of note on pleated 'furnace filters':
Most 'consumer-faced' pleated air filters are not advertised by a MERV rating; they will have some 'marketing-friendly' semi-standard.
Occasionally, you can find refrence on the manufactures' website for the equivalent MERV rating, other times you'll have to read their own 'standards' and do the math yourself to find the closest MERV-equivalent. If you don't got time for that, know that just about any filter that advertises "reducing mold spores" will be somewhere between a MERV 5-8. Which, is IMO the lowest filter ratings that will noticeably reduce dust buildup (with sufficient air exchanges). The 'effciency' is basically the percentage of 'target particle size(s)' captured on each pass; the more passes, the more is captured.

BTW, I'm not an HVAC tech. or anything like that. I've had nasty allergies that I'd tried for years to tame w/ air cleaning; and anything other than DIY is just too expensive.
Basically as far as 'facts, not anecdotes' go, I've read case studies on commercial HVAC, and have spent many hours researching filters. There's always more to learn, and memory is fallible, especially when not regularly exercised (ie, non-professional).

Oh okay thanks for sending me those great images! I was looking into the Hamilton Beach air purifier I was thinking of getting: https://hamiltonbeach.com/trueair-compact-air-purifier-with-hepa-filter-white-04386

It claims that the filters are "High-performance HEPA-grade filter captures dander & airborne particles as small as 3 microns" and that they're "Permanent 99% HEPA-grade filters". Does this mean that the filter can't even capture any particles below 3 microns? As with the furnace filters you mentioned, this doesn't even mention MERV; if it's HEPA-grade, I suppose it'd be in the MERV17 to MERV20 range. It seems concerning if it can't get any dust particles below 3 microns though since I guess that means it's worse than MERV1. I must be misunderstanding this though since that doesn't seem to make sense.

I'll look into ways to check if my room meets the ISO-8 standards then too. Also, as for DIY air cleaners, I see. So that's a risk as well. I'll definitely be careful about that since I didn't know that could damage fans though; I'll definitely keep that in mind to avoid that. Circling back to the pleated air filters, I'll look into those standards as well to figure out the efficiency. It seems that Hamilton Beach, at least, isn't reporting anything about standards nad all which seems suspicious lol. And I see, I hope these DIY air cleaners have been able to help with your allergies. At least you got a lot of useful knowledge out of it.

You can geab bare metal chassis and be ok

That's true, I generealyl do that as well to make sure.

Ya know... I'd been contemplating how one would build a 'sealed PC' for years.
Closest I've come to a practical vision uses 'basically MagSafe' connectors, for all external I/O.

The idea started as a way to have a PC 'hardened against EMP', but allow it to be used normally, and use 'off-the-shelf' internals. The small non-mil/industrial market for such things, seem to love throwing money at stuff that doesn't work; so, I figured something that actually worked might be worthwhile.

Problem is: It's easy enough to design a sealable hardened enclosure for storing and transporting; it's much harder designing one that's hardened during operation.
Even, if you're just trying to keep ALL dust out (like the nano-micro 'sandbox' dust), it's not easy for an in-operation chassis/enclosure. Things like temperature differentials and expansion coefficients of materials come into play at every seam.

That would definitely be a crazy idea for sure, but it'd be cool to see someone actually make something like that. That'd be a sight to see for sure.

A used Bionaire will cost you around here $25 to $50. New ones cost a lot more. Air filter Cartridges will cost you $10 to $14 each change. But you can clean out the filter with a vacuum cleaner to make them last longer. Or you can make your own filter as well for $1-2 dollars like I do for the smaller units. You can place your smaller unit closer to your working area/ computer and get almost the same results as the larger unit.

My filter is about 10 feet away from my PC. Should I try to move it closer somehow, or is that close enough?

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

I tend to go with box fans with a 20x20 filter, with at least the highest rating (or one of the highest) you can get at Home Depot, for example. I have ones with the rating "FPR 10".

Those get a ton of stuff, it looks like.

 

[Icon Charlie]

My filter is about 10 feet away from my PC. Should I try to move it closer somehow, or is that close enough?

The Bionaire that I had was around 8 feet away so I think 10 feet is fine. My Breathsmart now that I use is across the room. I still have my Bionaire and its on standby if and when the larger air purifier goes on the fritz. I will have to say that the larger machine has been running at lower speeds 24/7 for 9 years without any serious issues. Like all things I'm ready to buy a newer one when it fails.

 

[Space Lynx]

I use an air purifier for years now, it does help, I am surprised by how much dust it grabs up. I would buy a better one though. Clorox cleaning brand makes a good air purifier, I can't find the link right now though.

It doesn't fix the dust problem entirely, but it does help.

I tend to go with box fans with a 20x20 filter, with at least the highest rating (or one of the highest) you can get at Home Depot, for example. I have ones with the rating "FPR 10".

Those get a ton of stuff, it looks like.

i plan to do this at some point as well, it might have been you who mentioned it to me in a previous thread a year or two ago actually. someone did.

 

[eidairaman1]

Ya know... I'd been contemplating how one would build a 'sealed PC' for years.
Closest I've come to a practical vision uses 'basically MagSafe' connectors, for all external I/O.

The idea started as a way to have a PC 'hardened against EMP', but allow it to be used normally, and use 'off-the-shelf' internals. The small non-mil/industrial market for such things, seem to love throwing money at stuff that doesn't work; so, I figured something that actually worked might be worthwhile.

Problem is: It's easy enough to design a sealable hardened enclosure for storing and transporting; it's much harder designing one that's hardened during operation.
Even, if you're just trying to keep ALL dust out (like the nano-micro 'sandbox' dust), it's not easy for an in-operation chassis/enclosure. Things like temperature differentials and expansion coefficients of materials come into play at every seam.

Tantalum caps are the way to go

Ya know... I'd been contemplating how one would build a 'sealed PC' for years.
Closest I've come to a practical vision uses 'basically MagSafe' connectors, for all external I/O.

The idea started as a way to have a PC 'hardened against EMP', but allow it to be used normally, and use 'off-the-shelf' internals. The small non-mil/industrial market for such things, seem to love throwing money at stuff that doesn't work; so, I figured something that actually worked might be worthwhile.

Problem is: It's easy enough to design a sealable hardened enclosure for storing and transporting; it's much harder designing one that's hardened during operation.
Even, if you're just trying to keep ALL dust out (like the nano-micro 'sandbox' dust), it's not easy for an in-operation chassis/enclosure. Things like temperature differentials and expansion coefficients of materials come into play at every seam.

I agree about the hardened enclosure, it have to be the highest class pelican case or something like that to keep particulate and moisture out, soley relying on water exchanger or sealed off external heatpipes going to fin stack or the enclosure is the heatsink itself...

 

[Wirko]

Problem is: It's easy enough to design a sealable hardened enclosure for storing and transporting; it's much harder designing one that's hardened during operation.
Even, if you're just trying to keep ALL dust out (like the nano-micro 'sandbox' dust), it's not easy for an in-operation chassis/enclosure. Things like temperature differentials and expansion coefficients of materials come into play at every seam.

But how close to perfection do you want to get? How much dust do you find inside your kitchen cabinets, for example - is it more than would be acceptable inside your PC?

Building a PC without case fans, or any fans that push air into or out of the case, and also without cat-size openings, should suffice for a home PC, in my opinion.

Yeah, I guess the only way to know for sure is to try it for a few months and see how it is lol.

Some types of dust, at least pollen and soot, are highly seasonal, so a few months might be too little. Whatever you find on the top surface of your PC should be a good indicator of what gets inside (provided that you don't clean it very often).

 

[joemama]

It claims that the filters are "High-performance HEPA-grade filter captures dander & airborne particles as small as 3 microns" and that they're "Permanent 99% HEPA-grade filters". Does this mean that the filter can't even capture any particles below 3 microns?

It will still capture particles under 3 microns, usually these air purifier vendors only state the filtering efficiency at a certain particle size.
From that they state that the filters are "HEPA-grade" and permanent I wouldn't buy their stuff, no HEPA filters are permanent

I work at a factory with class 100 cleanrooms and also took the lead of particle solving for a few months so I have some knowledge on these.
If you're just trying to keep dust out of PC, HEPAs are an overkill though. For most of the dust you see are way over 10 micrometers and simple filters would work.
Don't bother making your room a cleanroom, 1 person walking inside will make the particle counts explode.

 

[Aquinus]

If you're just trying to keep dust out of PC, HEPAs are an overkill though. For most of the dust you see are way over 10 micrometers and simple filters would work.

+1 on this. This is why computer chassis filters are a coarse mesh and not something more like a HEPA filter. In fact, two of the purifiers I have use that kind of material as a pre-filter, then through the HEPA filter and you'd be astonished at how little dust actually makes it to the HEPA filter itself. So I second the statement that HEPA is overkill for computer intake air filtration.

 

[Segundoh]

I tend to go with box fans with a 20x20 filter, with at least the highest rating (or one of the highest) you can get at Home Depot, for example. I have ones with the rating "FPR 10".

Those get a ton of stuff, it looks like.

Thanks! I'll look into a FPR 10 box fan with a 20x20 filter then. That'll definitely be a lot cheaper and maybe even better. Thanks!

The Bionaire that I had was around 8 feet away so I think 10 feet is fine. My Breathsmart now that I use is across the room. I still have my Bionaire and its on standby if and when the larger air purifier goes on the fritz. I will have to say that the larger machine has been running at lower speeds 24/7 for 9 years without any serious issues. Like all things I'm ready to buy a newer one when it fails.

It would technically be actually 8.39 - 8.8125 feet away based on where I would put it, so that should definitely be good since 10 feet is fine. And I see, so something good like a BreathSmart works from that far away. It would technically be across the room, but my room is only 10 feet long anyway, so it'll be 10 feet away at most. Wow, so a BreathSmart can last for 9 years even 24/7. That's definitely impressive!

I use an air purifier for years now, it does help, I am surprised by how much dust it grabs up. I would buy a better one though. Clorox cleaning brand makes a good air purifier, I can't find the link right now though.

It doesn't fix the dust problem entirely, but it does help.



i plan to do this at some point as well, it might have been you who mentioned it to me in a previous thread a year or two ago actually. someone did.

It's good to hear that it does help a lot even if it doesn't completely fix the issue. I'll look into Clorox air purifiers then. Also, that box fan definitely does seem useful. I'll have to try that out as well.

Tantalum caps are the way to go


I agree about the hardened enclosure, it have to be the highest class pelican case or something like that to keep particulate and moisture out, soley relying on water exchanger or sealed off external heatpipes going to fin stack or the enclosure is the heatsink itself...

I haven't heard of tantalum caps, so I've been reading more about them and it does seem very interesting. That Pelican case stuff does seem impractical for home use, but it also does seem very intriguing.

But how close to perfection do you want to get? How much dust do you find inside your kitchen cabinets, for example - is it more than would be acceptable inside your PC?

Building a PC without case fans, or any fans that push air into or out of the case, and also without cat-size openings, should suffice for a home PC, in my opinion.


Some types of dust, at least pollen and soot, are highly seasonal, so a few months might be too little. Whatever you find on the top surface of your PC should be a good indicator of what gets inside (provided that you don't clean it very often).

I do find a decent amount of dust in my kitchen cabinets, though they also haven't been cleaned in a while. I'll have to clean them and see if it's an acceptable amount. That kind of PC definitely does seem very intriguing. As for dust, that makes sense since there are seasonable types at least. I'll check the top surface of my PC regularly without cleaning it to see if it's an acceptable amount, and then clean it afterwards.

It will still capture particles under 3 microns, usually these air purifier vendors only state the filtering efficiency at a certain particle size.
From that they state that the filters are "HEPA-grade" and permanent I wouldn't buy their stuff, no HEPA filters are permanent

I work at a factory with class 100 cleanrooms and also took the lead of particle solving for a few months so I have some knowledge on these.
If you're just trying to keep dust out of PC, HEPAs are an overkill though. For most of the dust you see are way over 10 micrometers and simple filters would work.
Don't bother making your room a cleanroom, 1 person walking inside will make the particle counts explode.

Oh okay I see. It's good to hear that it will at least capture particles under 3 microns even if it's not the best at that. And I see, so it's not real HEPA filters; I didn't realize that there are no permanent HEPA filters, so that's unfortunate. You definitely are very knowledgeable and much more knowledgeable than I am! It's good to hear that I don't even need a HEPA filter though; I didn't realize that dust is relatively large, at least compared to the sizes of particles HEPA filters can catch. I won't bother with a cleanroom then if it'll be that difficult to keep it clean.

+1 on this. This is why computer chassis filters are a coarse mesh and not something more like a HEPA filter. In fact, two of the purifiers I have use that kind of material as a pre-filter, then through the HEPA filter and you'd be astonished at how little dust actually makes it to the HEPA filter itself. So I second the statement that HEPA is overkill for computer intake air filtration.

I see, so that coarse mesh is typically enough for dust and all. It's good to hear that stuff is good enough for pre-filters and all. I won't spend more on HEPA then since it's overkill.

 

[Vayra86]

Forget air purifiers/filters and whatnot unless you need them for another purpose.

You have a good case, and it begs for a positive pressure setup. The stronger the positive pressure, in my experience with Fractal cases (I only roll with Fractal, honestly... they're perfect, have two Defines and had a Meshify and Node), the less dust.

I've had the Define R4 with one front intake and one exhaust (equalized pressure) downstairs for two years. It had moderate dust in the CPU heatsink. Nothing caked or nasty, just a few clogs of dust. There was a very visible layer across the mobo as well, pretty serious cleaning job altogether.

I've also had the Define R4 with two 140mm front intakes and one exhaust for several years while smoking in the room. It had less dust inside the case, though what was there was more sticky/nasty, obv from smoking. But that's pretty remarkable; this situation was considerably lower in air quality (also dust wise), but positive pressure made a difference.

The Define C TG had 3x120mm in the front and one exhaust and has been the cleanest case after two years ever. I could barely even see the dust on the mobo; the GPU had one small clog of dust in the heatsink, and the CPU heatsink a fine layer behind the fan (basically the fan structure printed on the sink).

And all this considering I'm really bad at regularly cleaning my filters.

 

[Aquinus]

I see, so that coarse mesh is typically enough for dust and all. It's good to hear that stuff is good enough for pre-filters and all. I won't spend more on HEPA then since it's overkill.

The more fine the filter is, the more dust it will capture, but it comes at the cost of how much air can be moved through it. The reality is that unless you go to extremes, you'll always get some amount of dust in your machine. However, some simple things like using normal chassis filters and balancing the fans so you have ever so slightly more positive pressure in the case will keep dust to a minimum. It's a simple problem with simple solutions. There is no need to overthink it.

 

[Vario]

Yeah I don’t use filters because to me they just get in the way.. I have the blower and it’s awesome

Filters just makes shit run hotter and louder. No filters, fans run lower speed, system runs cooler, then open the case every 2 months or so and blast off.

Computer cases didn't use to come with filters and hardware lasted fine without.

I run zero filters, and whenever I mention it the filter crew on here will pipe up about how irresponsible it is, but I have almost no dust. I have the fine steel mesh grill of the O11 Mini and the hexagonal steel grills, but thats it.

I don't have a thick carpet in this room or a pet, maybe thats it, but to be honest a small amount of dust doesn't hurt anything, and really only a small amount will accumulate in the span of a month or two, then you blast it out, simple.

The MetroData Vac ED500 is one of the best purchases I have made because I can run my system cooler and quieter in this manner.

I have pretty much no visible dust. This is what it looked like running no filters for 4 months without dusting.

 

[Segundoh]

Forget air purifiers/filters and whatnot unless you need them for another purpose.

You have a good case, and it begs for a positive pressure setup. The stronger the positive pressure, in my experience with Fractal cases (I only roll with Fractal, honestly... they're perfect, have two Defines and had a Meshify and Node), the less dust.

I've had the Define R4 with one front intake and one exhaust (equalized pressure) downstairs for two years. It had moderate dust in the CPU heatsink. Nothing caked or nasty, just a few clogs of dust. There was a very visible layer across the mobo as well, pretty serious cleaning job altogether.

I've also had the Define R4 with two 140mm front intakes and one exhaust for several years while smoking in the room. It had less dust inside the case, though what was there was more sticky/nasty, obv from smoking. But that's pretty remarkable; this situation was considerably lower in air quality (also dust wise), but positive pressure made a difference.

The Define C TG had 3x120mm in the front and one exhaust and has been the cleanest case after two years ever. I could barely even see the dust on the mobo; the GPU had one small clog of dust in the heatsink, and the CPU heatsink a fine layer behind the fan (basically the fan structure printed on the sink).

And all this considering I'm really bad at regularly cleaning my filters.

That makes sense. So, positive pressure is more important and all. Air purifiers would at least be useful to get most dust out of my room and to eliminate pollen. Do I have enough positive pressure with the stock fans for my Fractal Meshify Compact 2? It came with 2 140mm front fans and 1 120mm back fan, so it's 2 intake fans and 1 exhaust fans. If I'm understanding this correctly, that should be positive pressure. Would it benefit me to add another bottom fan then so I can have 3 intake fans and one exhaust fan? It's good to hear that one front intake and one exhaust worked well for the Define R4 even after 2 years. It's interesting that positive pressure helped so much that it offset the difference from smoking. I'll try to regularly clean my filters, but, realistically, I probably won't lol.

The more fine the filter is, the more dust it will capture, but it comes at the cost of how much air can be moved through it. The reality is that unless you go to extremes, you'll always get some amount of dust in your machine. However, some simple things like using normal chassis filters and balancing the fans so you have ever so slightly more positive pressure in the case will keep dust to a minimum. It's a simple problem with simple solutions. There is no need to overthink it.

It makes sense there's a tradeoff and all. So my PC will run hotter if I have stronger filters. Would you say the normal chassis filters on the Fractal Meshify Compact 2 are good enough? It came with a front, top, and bottom filter. As for positive pressure, I have 2 140mm front intake fans and 1 120mm back exhaust fan. Would it be good to add a 140mm bottom intake fan as well, or would that make the positive pressure too high? And I see, so even if I do all that, there's still gonna be some dust. It makes sense that is unavoidable and all.

Filters just makes shit run hotter and louder. No filters, fans run lower speed, system runs cooler, then open the case every 2 months or so and blast off.

Computer cases didn't use to come with filters and hardware lasted fine without.

I run zero filters, and whenever I mention it the filter crew on here will pipe up about how irresponsible it is, but I have almost no dust. I have the fine steel mesh grill of the O11 Mini and the hexagonal steel grills, but thats it.

I don't have a thick carpet in this room or a pet, maybe thats it, but to be honest a small amount of dust doesn't hurt anything, and really only a small amount will accumulate in the span of a month or two, then you blast it out, simple.

The MetroData Vac ED500 is one of the best purchases I have made because I can run my system cooler and quieter in this manner.

I have pretty much no visible dust. This is what it looked like running no filters for 4 months without dusting.

View attachment 296756

It makes sense that filters make PCs run hotter and all. It's interesting that cases never came with filters before; I did not know that, so it's good to hear that they're good enough even without filters. I don't have a pet either, but I do have a rather thick carpet. I'll definitely invest in a MetroData Vac ED500 and clean out my PC regularly then. Thanks!

 

[Vario]

That makes sense. So, positive pressure is more important and all. Air purifiers would at least be useful to get most dust out of my room and to eliminate pollen. Do I have enough positive pressure with the stock fans for my Fractal Meshify Compact 2? It came with 2 140mm front fans and 1 120mm back fan, so it's 2 intake fans and 1 exhaust fans. If I'm understanding this correctly, that should be positive pressure. Would it benefit me to add another bottom fan then so I can have 3 intake fans and one exhaust fan? It's good to hear that one front intake and one exhaust worked well for the Define R4 even after 2 years. It's interesting that positive pressure helped so much that it offset the difference from smoking. I'll try to regularly clean my filters, but, realistically, I probably won't lol.

It makes sense there's a tradeoff and all. So my PC will run hotter if I have stronger filters. Would you say the normal chassis filters on the Fractal Meshify Compact 2 are good enough? It came with a front, top, and bottom filter. As for positive pressure, I have 2 140mm front intake fans and 1 120mm back exhaust fan. Would it be good to add a 140mm bottom intake fan as well, or would that make the positive pressure too high? And I see, so even if I do all that, there's still gonna be some dust. It makes sense that is unavoidable and all.

It makes sense that filters make PCs run hotter and all. It's interesting that cases never came with filters before; I did not know that, so it's good to hear that they're good enough even without filters. I don't have a pet either, but I do have a rather thick carpet. I'll definitely invest in a MetroData Vac ED500 and clean out my PC regularly then. Thanks!

Yeah filters restrict airflow, so the machine will have to run higher fan RPM to compensate, also as filters get more dust on them, the airflow through the filter material will go down. They aren't really needed if you just clean the machine every month or two. There are Dell office computers that run for a decade full of dust after all. You won't reach that kind of extreme.

 

[Wirko]

Here's another thing to consider: dust likes to accumulate on the floor, so a PC on the desk will gather less of it than one on the floor. While I've always kept mine on the floor just to hide it from view, I've also raised it on a pad at least 5 cm thick in order to keep it a bit above dust. It doesn't do wonders but it does have some effect.

 

[freeagent]

Tidy cleaning habits are extremely helpful. Sweeping, vacuuming, dusting, etc.

But dirt is in the air, you cant escape it.. dander, pollen, smoke, vape, all kinds of particulates accumulating to try to kill you and your pc

 

[wheresmycar]

WORD OF WARNING

no matter what you do, the shadowy specters of the night and day, known to man as "dust" will eventually find you! They will infiltrate your components and wreak havoc on your systems performance. These are no ordinary assassins, they don't eat, they don't sleep, their presence is a chilling whisper and like predators with deadly precision they strike terror at will. Air purifiers may slow down the attack or have them partially removed for a while.... but these are mischevious creatures disappearing only momentarily until they reappear!!.... just accept the inescapable fate and do not aggravate them or else (i fear) one day we shall be no more.

 

[Segundoh]

Yeah filters restrict airflow, so the machine will have to run higher fan RPM to compensate, also as filters get more dust on them, the airflow through the filter material will go down. They aren't really needed if you just clean the machine every month or two. There are Dell office computers that run for a decade full of dust after all. You won't reach that kind of extreme.

Do these temps seem concering? My idle GPU temps are 40-50 degrees Celsius and the max temp at load is 70-80 degrees while the max junction temp is 103 degrees Celsius, but it's usually around 95-100 degrees Celsius. I have a 6800 XT. My idle Ryzen 5 7600 with PBO temps are 40-50 degrees Celsius and they max out at 95 degrees Celsius, though they're typically in the 80-90 degrees Celsius range under load. I thought these temps seemed high, but it seems Zen 4 runs hot. I just saw my junction temps max out at 108 degrees Celsius when I was running the Boundary benchmark. It typically ranges from 100 to 104 degrees Celsius, but it jumps up at some points to 107 or 108 degrees Celsius. Is this too high, or is it okay as long as it's below 110 degrees Celsius? It apparently maxed out at 111 degrees Celsius which is definitely concerning although I didn't even see that when I was looking at it; not sure when that happened then. If so, I'll definitely remove my filters and all to improve these temps. And true at least it won't get as bad as those Dell computers.

Here's another thing to consider: dust likes to accumulate on the floor, so a PC on the desk will gather less of it than one on the floor. While I've always kept mine on the floor just to hide it from view, I've also raised it on a pad at least 5 cm thick in order to keep it a bit above dust. It doesn't do wonders but it does have some effect.

That makes sense. I have mine on my desk on a hard surface so hopefully that's good enough.

Tidy cleaning habits are extremely helpful. Sweeping, vacuuming, dusting, etc.

But dirt is in the air, you cant escape it.. dander, pollen, smoke, vape, all kinds of particulates accumulating to try to kill you and your pc

I'll be sure to sweep, vacuum, and dust more frequently then. At least that'll alleviate this problem even if it unfortuantely won't completely fix it as you said.

WORD OF WARNING

no matter what you do, the shadowy specters of the night and day, known to man as "dust" will eventually find you! They will infiltrate your components and wreak havoc on your systems performance. These are no ordinary assassins, they don't eat, they don't sleep, their presence is a chilling whisper and like predators with deadly precision they strike terror at will. Air purifiers may slow down the attack or have them partially removed for a while.... but these are mischevious creatures disappearing only momentarily until they reappear!!.... just accept the inescapable fate and do not aggravate them or else (i fear) one day we shall be no more.

That is a very eloquent way to put it lol. I'm always living in fear of these terrifying creatures for sure, and there's pretty much nothing I can do to stop them!

 

[Frick]

Tidy cleaning habits are extremely helpful. Sweeping, vacuuming, dusting, etc.

But dirt is in the air, you cant escape it.. dander, pollen, smoke, vape, all kinds of particulates accumulating to try to kill you and your pc

20-50% is dead skin cells.

 

[freeagent]

Do these temps seem concering? My idle GPU temps are 40-50 degrees Celsius and the max temp at load is 70-80 degrees while the max junction temp is 103 degrees Celsius, but it's usually around 95-100 degrees Celsius. I have a 6800 XT. My idle Ryzen 5 7600 with PBO temps are 40-50 degrees Celsius and they max out at 95 degrees Celsius, though they're typically in the 80-90 degrees Celsius range under load.

My GPU idle temp is 29c, my 5900X idles at 30c.. my GPU loads at 65, with a hotspot of 75, and my 5900X loads at 82c @ 210w PPT. These are f@h temps..

 

[Segundoh]

My GPU idle temp is 29c, my 5900X idles at 30c.. my GPU loads at 65, with a hotspot of 75, and my 5900X loads at 82c @ 210w PPT. These are f@h temps..

What GPU do you have? I have a 6800 XT. I heard that Zen 4 CPUs run hot and try to boost to 95 degrees C which seems accurate since the die temp maxes out at 95 degrees C. The other CPU temps max out at about 96 degrees C. I’m hoping that’s okay, though the idle CPU temp definitely seems cokcerning The GPU temps definitely seem very concerning too.

20-50% is dead skin cells.

I see, so there’s not much I can do to prevent dead skin cells from showing up lol. I’ll still clean it properly and all.