Next Gen GPU's will be even more expensive

[freeagent]

Yup. No spit or anything.

 

[Vayra86]

I do get every bit of hate for what NVIDIA have been doing after Pascal - the prices, the planned obsolescence of 3080/3070. What I don't get is portraying AMD as this great alternative choice that's just always being unfairly dismissed by people. What have they really contributed ? They sat 2080Ti, the first one to cost $999, out with a mid range card, and then as soon as they made a really great, competitive gpu like 6900xt, they too priced it at $999. 7900xtx was $999 too, and an equivalent to, surprise surprise, nvidia's $999 4080 but with worse RT, efficiency and worse upscaling. Yet still people acted like the blame was on one side only, when to my eyes it has always been on both in equal measure.
What is also true is all this negativity did not start just now, the people you see xomplaining here have been green team haters for a long time, even when 1080Ti was absolutely killing it in value. I too decided to change things just to try, upgrading a 3060Ti to 6800. And you know what ? It was absolutely meaningless when a card with 16GB of vram fell flat on its face whenever I tried running max settings in new games, because they all required Ray traced GI, reflections and shadows. The numbers were actually worse on 6800, and unplayable on both cards.

To me, they are just 'an' alternative, that luckily exists at the performance level I required this time around. I don't get the fanboyism either.

 

[Hecate91]

4070ti. 800 but you got ballpark 3090 performance but expensive for a 12GB card. 7900XT 900usd lmao

Seems like people forgot about the $900 4080 12GB Nvidia tried to bait everyone with, thats probably what AMD went on with selling the 7900XT for $900. I agree it was way overpriced, but AMD is simply following the market leader, not saying I like it but thats what companies do.

I do get every bit of hate for what NVIDIA have been doing after Pascal - the prices, the planned obsolescence of 3080/3070. What I don't get is portraying AMD as this great alternative choice that's just always being unfairly dismissed by people. What have they really contributed ? They sat 2080Ti, the first one to cost $999, out with a mid range card, and then as soon as they made a really great, competitive gpu like 6900xt, they too priced it at $999. 7900xtx was $999 too, and an equivalent to, surprise surprise, nvidia's $999 4080 but with worse RT, efficiency and worse upscaling. Yet still people acted like the blame was on one side only, when to my eyes it has always been on both in equal measure.
What is also true is all this negativity did not start just now, the people you see xomplaining here have been green team haters for a long time, even when 1080Ti was absolutely killing it in value. I too decided to change things just to try, upgrading a 3060Ti to 6800. And you know what ? It was absolutely meaningless when a card with 16GB of vram fell flat on its face whenever I tried running max settings in new games, because they all required Ray traced GI, reflections and shadows. The numbers were actually worse on 6800, and unplayable on both cards.

AMD is an alternative to me, though I don't care very much for RT or the latest games, and I think the problem is expecting to run the latest games on max settings on a mid range card, often turning things down to high isn't a noticeable difference. I don't understand the fanboying for nvidia though, not after how they treated their gaming customers during the mining craze, and rapidly increasing prices since Pascal, yet people only blame AMD for the screwed up pricing.

No, its going to be even worse, at least for me. I could stomach 1000eur for a 4080/S, but I bet 5080 will start at 1200, if not 1250 or 1300.

The current rumors are $1700 usd for the 5080, I expect pricing in that range because its going to be the card for "gamers" while the 5090 will have double the shaders and VRAM, being targeted for AI and professionals but with gaming branding for the few wealthy gamers who can afford to dump $2500+ on a gpu.

 

[freeagent]

Seems like people forgot about the $900 4080 12GB Nvidia tried to bait everyone with,

Nope.. I bought one, its in my sig

 

[wolf]

I think most would agree outside the 4090 last generation sucked as a whole leaving people to make meh decisions if they wanted to upgrade

While that's the popular online narrative in the vocal minority we are, in the grand scheme of things it would appear that Ada was quite a success for Nvidia and sold well overall. The products themselves were largely fine, some really good even, the standout issue was the pricing across most teirs but it seems that most regular folk saw everything else get price inflated around them too and just sucked it up.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

While that's the popular online narrative in the vocal minority we are, in the grand scheme of things it would appear that Ada was quite a success for Nvidia and sold well overall. The products themselves were largely fine, some really good even, the standout issue was the pricing across most teirs but it seems that most regular folk saw everything else get price inflated around them too and just sucked it up.

That's because 80% of the market sees bigger numbers equals better. I was more talking about the people who actually do a little research.

The pandemic/mining boom did help perception a bit though. I agree pricing was the number one problem also if you were in the market for a GPU it is what it is and it's not like anyone offered better products than Nvidia.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Gotta get people talking, and marketing is BS these days and people see right through it.

They do not. Otherwise we wouldn't be calling 300W, $800 graphics cards "midrange".

The 4080s was probably a response to the 4080 not selling that well (contrary to what people said in the previous pages) and the xtx dropping its price.

And no, I don't think most people would agree, that's the issue. Haven't you read the previous page? It's the 4090 buyers that ruin the market. I mean this week alone I've read that thing 4-5 times in this very forum, it's people that buy high end nvidia cards that are responsible for the prices

I know you're being sarcastic here, but it's true. High-end buyers are (partially) responsible for pricing. Folks keep saying it doesn't matter how much the halo card costs, but it does. The price of the top parts level-sets the rest of stack. And why is that price where it is? Because buyers, as had been duly noted, will pay. This is, despite claims to the contrary, Not Good. The sub-$300 market is a wasteland. One current-gen card has a TDP less than 150W (and everyone hates it). Games race to saturate these high-power cards, 4K120U becomes the standard, and cards that can't meet it are decried as a waste of sand, and even the 4090 gets called "underpowered" without irony. The obsession with performance is harming the hobby.

 

[nguyen]

I know you're being sarcastic here, but it's true. High-end buyers are (partially) responsible for pricing. Folks keep saying it doesn't matter how much the halo card costs, but it does. The price of the top parts level-sets the rest of stack. And why is that price where it is? Because buyers, as had been duly noted, will pay. This is, despite claims to the contrary, Not Good. The sub-$300 market is a wasteland. One current-gen card has a TDP less than 150W (and everyone hates it). Games race to saturate these high-power cards, 4K120U becomes the standard, and cards that can't meet it are decried as a waste of sand, and even the 4090 gets called "underpowered" without irony. The obsession with performance is harming the hobby.

Well then you can blame AMD for their pricing scheme that let their 1000usd 7900XTX somehow become the best selling RDNA3, according to Steam Survey.

Meanwhile on Nvidia camp, their best selling GPUs are the cheapest options.
From Steam Survey, most popular GPU ranking (ADA):
1. 4060
2. 4060 Ti
3. 4070
4. 4070 Super
5. 4090
6. 4080 Super

For RDNA3:
1. 7900 XTX
2. 7700 XT
The rest of RDNA3 not show up, I wonder why

 

[Outback Bronze]

Ada was quite a success for Nvidia and sold well overall.

Was this mainly because of AI? I remember the days of just gamers and graphics designers buying GPU's. Seems things have changed price wise and client wise.

Nvidia's stock market has skyrocketed.

 

[freeagent]

They do not. Otherwise we wouldn't be calling 300W, $800 graphics cards "midrange"

I thought that's what my 4070Ti was

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Well then you can blame AMD for their pricing scheme that let their 1000usd 7900XTX somehow become the best selling RDNA3, according to Steam Survey.

Meanwhile on Nvidia camp, their best selling GPUs are the cheapest options.
From Steam Survey, most popular GPU ranking (ADA):
1. 4060
2. 4060 Ti
3. 4070
4. 4070 Super
5. 4090
6. 4080 Super

For RDNA3:
1. 7900 XTX
2. 7700 XT
The rest of RDNA3 not show up, I wonder why

All that from a survey where many people opt out? Not sure these are fair comparisons to what's actually in people's rigs. I for one have opted out almost all times asked when setting up steam for the first time. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Rx 6600 and 6700 should damn well be on that list, such popular video cards, even long lengthy RX 6000 series club threads right here in this forum.

 

[nguyen]

All that from a survey where many people opt out? Not sure these are fair comparisons to what's actually in people's rigs. I for one have opted out almost all times asked when setting up steam for the first time. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Rx 6600 and 6700 should damn well be on that list, such popular video cards, even long lengthy RX 6000 series club threads right here in this forum.

6600 and 6700XT are #1 and #3 most popular Radeon cards.

Steam Survey don't use data from when you just set up Steam anyways, only the survey being done at the beginning of every month.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

6600 and 6700XT are #1 and #2 most popular Radeon cards.

For sure. Price to performance spot on!! I had both. And a 6650XT. And 6800. 6500... (mGpu) 6400...

People might even want to consider mGPU for DX12 gaming. You can in fact mGPU a 6700 and 6700XT. They do not both need to be XT cards, but the driver seems to work best with the non XT as primary for w/e reason....

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Well then you can blame AMD for their pricing scheme that let their 1000usd 7900XTX somehow become the best selling RDNA3, according to Steam Survey.

Meanwhile on Nvidia camp, their best selling GPUs are the cheapest options.
From Steam Survey, most popular GPU ranking (ADA):
1. 4060
2. 4060 Ti
3. 4070
4. 4070 Super
5. 4090
6. 4080 Super

For RDNA3:
1. 7900 XTX
2. 7700 XT
The rest of RDNA3 not show up, I wonder why

Show me in my post where I mentioned a manufacturer, or where anything in yours contradicts what I said.

I thought that's what my 4070Ti was

Exactly my point. It's power envelope and price imply high end.

 

[eidairaman1]

For sure. Price to performance spot on!! I had both. And a 6650XT. And 6800. 6500... (mGpu) 6400...

People might even want to consider mGPU for DX12 gaming. You can in fact mGPU a 6700 and 6700XT. They do not both need to be XT cards, but the driver seems to work best with the non XT as primary for w/e reason....

The problem is not all games have mgpu implemented, now unless if someone finds a code hack to force it in, that would be nice.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

The problem is not all games have mgpu implemented, now unless if someone finds a code hack to force it in, that would be nice.

Right because the driver doesn't necessarily always need game support. So some games it may work, others it does not.

But when I tried the DX12 benchmarks, that also don't officially support mGPU, there was a very good uplift in performance.

Also, and again, mGPU only supports DX12. But a 6600 isn't exactly expensive, could uplift some gamers experiences with perhaps some DX12 games.

I mean, I would test such a thing, but I lack all the DX12 games to do so.

 

[nguyen]

Show me in my post where I mentioned a manufacturer, or where anything in yours contradicts what I said.

I'm just calling out a specific manufacturer and their high-end buyers that are guilty of exactly what you were saying

 

[eidairaman1]

Right because the driver doesn't necessarily always need game support. So some games it may work, others it does not.

But when I tried the DX12 benchmarks, that also don't officially support mGPU, there was a very good uplift in performance.

Also, and again, mGPU only supports DX12. But a 6600 isn't exactly expensive, could uplift some gamers experiences with perhaps some DX12 games.

I mean, I would test such a thing, but I lack all the DX12 games to do so.

Maybe 1 day coder finds a solution to force mgpu in all games for AMD, intel and nvidia. Long ago I built mine to run 2 290s but after both companies canned the idea i just was like well there goes that idea.

 

[Hecate91]

Nope.. I bought one, its in my sig

I know, but I wasn't referring to you specifically. Nvidia would've been successful with that bait and switch on me if the 4070Ti would've been the super version from the start. I've said it before but I really dislike how Nvidia double dips on consumers with the super versions, just sell the super version in the first place.

I know you're being sarcastic here, but it's true. High-end buyers are (partially) responsible for pricing. Folks keep saying it doesn't matter how much the halo card costs, but it does. The price of the top parts level-sets the rest of stack. And why is that price where it is? Because buyers, as had been duly noted, will pay. This is, despite claims to the contrary, Not Good. The sub-$300 market is a wasteland. One current-gen card has a TDP less than 150W (and everyone hates it). Games race to saturate these high-power cards, 4K120U becomes the standard, and cards that can't meet it are decried as a waste of sand, and even the 4090 gets called "underpowered" without irony. The obsession with performance is harming the hobby.

Agreed, high end buyers are the ones responsible for the pricing, or else the prices wouldn't be what they are, the tech media overhyping the high end while calling low end cards a waste are also to blame, IMO. As for performance, too many are obsessed with performance above all else, as well as graphics. AAA game quality suffers as well as many studios are losing money on games people aren't interested in. Gamers want good gameplay and a good story line, not the overhyped everything looking soaking wet graphics.

 

[freeagent]

I know, but

I have to be really honest.. the fact that this 4070Ti was supposed to be the 4080 12GB, and the fact that it was on sale at the time was the only reasons I bought it, outside of my kid getting other Ti..

It is the bastard child that nobody wanted

But I still love it

 

[eidairaman1]

I know, but I wasn't referring to you specifically. Nvidia would've been successful with that bait and switch on me if the 4070Ti would've been the super version from the start. I've said it before but I really dislike how Nvidia double dips on consumers with the super versions, just sell the super version in the first place.

Agreed, high end buyers are the ones responsible for the pricing, or else the prices wouldn't be what they are, the tech media overhyping the high end while calling low end cards a waste are also to blame, IMO. As for performance, too many are obsessed with performance above all else, as well as graphics. AAA game quality suffers as well as many studios are losing money on games people aren't interested in. Gamers want good gameplay and a good story line, not the overhyped everything looking soaking wet graphics.

The last time a game really blew me away was Need for Speed Underground in the graphics department, cranked it max on a Radeon 9700 Pro All In Wonder, that is when I learned the Xbox used a FX 5200 because the graphics quality was at minimum on the 5200 and the xbox.

On the gameplay end, I stopped playing Sonic after Rush and then played Mania, havent played another Title Since Mania. I might jump into Sonic Project 06 since it fixed 2006, and maybe a heavily modified Frontiers.

 

[nguyen]

I have to be really honest.. the fact that this 4070Ti was supposed to be the 4080 12GB, and the fact that it was on sale at the time was the only reasons I bought it, outside of my kid getting other Ti..

It is the bastard child that nobody wanted

But I still love it

It's still faster than the 600usd 4070 Super, so 700usd should be the realistic price for the 4070 Ti.
Overall you only lose 100usd or less, nothing to fret about

 

[igormp]

Was this mainly because of AI? I remember the days of just gamers and graphics designers buying GPU's. Seems things have changed price wise and client wise.

Nvidia's stock market has skyrocketed.

Nvidia has always been the go to for AI since the 500 series due to CUDA, but Turing (2000 series) gave a really amazing performance boost due to tensor cores, and Ampere and Ada just made this even stronger.
That 512-bit bus and 32GB on the 5090 are not because any game demands that, I can guarantee you that.

 

[Outback Bronze]

The last time a game really blew me away was Need for Speed Underground in the graphics department, cranked it max on a Radeon 9700 Pro

I Vividly remember playing that on my 9800 Pro when I first slapped it in my system. Yep, fully cranked was pretty cool and it was quite funny as my mate tried to play it on his GeForce 4200 Ti. He came around the next day and say "Gees, your 9800 Pro pumps out the pixels".

But it wasn't until I played Far Cry (first DX9 title) that I was really awe struck, with the jungle and water reflective graphics. I thought it was really impressive for it day.

This was the Radeons (ATi) most competitive market share of all time through to the X800's. Really hoping things can turn around here like what they have done with their CPU department.

 

[Zazigalka]

AMD is an alternative to me, though I don't care very much for RT or the latest games, and I think the problem is expecting to run the latest games on max settings on a mid range card

Well, you can do that on a 4070S, at least at 1440p with dlss. The question is how long before vram becomes too much of a problem. I took that shot over 7900gre, where not only RT performance lags too far behind to really make enabling it worth the performance hit, but fsr is often just too shimmery for me, as I'm very sensitive to that. So you have a nice 16gb buffer, that you cannot really use to run max settings. Look at 4070 S vs 7900gre RT FPS numbers at 1440, mid 70s vs mid 50s