Next Gen GPU's will be even more expensive

[AusWolf]

More you buy from nvidia dumber it gets over time. But also it could be deliberate leak from nvidia to set up 1200/1300$ (as a great price) Easy manipulation even if it costs 1200/1300$ it's not a great price by any means.

Oh wait... DLSS 4 now? Is it 4 times better than DLSS 1?

I'm not even gonna ask whether you need a 50x series GPU to use it because I'm sure that the answer is yes.

 

[Sir Beregond]

Maybe because there is just pure lack of competition. We had no 4080 Ti or 4090 Ti little alone Titans.

This and the 4090 functioned as the "throw them a bone" release. Nvidia had no incentive to sell any cheaper cut-down AD102 silicon in a theoretical 4080 Ti.

 

[wolf]

Oh wait... DLSS 4 now? Is it 4 times better than DLSS 1?

Hilarious! Hopefully FSR 4 is 4x better than FSR 1

I'm not even gonna ask whether you need a 50x series GPU to use it because I'm sure that the answer is yes.

I'd guess something exclusive to 50 series (perhaps even only improvements to existing features), but not everything, like DLSS3 intro'd FG but super resolution upscaling is supported on older cards and continued to develop. I don't see DLSS SR evaporating for all older gens overnight. But hey, I could be very wrong, time will tell.

 

[AusWolf]

Hilarious! Hopefully FSR 4 is 4x better than FSR 1

Definitely! Maybe AMD should skip FSR 4 and release FSR 5 instead just to be 1 number ahead.

Edit: *searching for the old post where I said DLSS 4 would be exclusive to Blackwell*

 

[Sound_Card]

As long as Nvidia has a firm grip on its mass psychosis of the market, they will charge what ever they want (just like Apple), and their merry shoppers will happily buy them under some of the most asinine pretenses. They've convinced their market that upgrading is necessary. Without saying so many words, it's not really Nvidia's fault, it's the consumer's fault. Prices wouldn't be this high if the consumer was more intelligent. You see, Nvidia charges the prices they do not because AMD can't compete (because they do make competitive cards with competitive feature sets), they charge the prices they do because people buy at those prices. Nvidia is fully aware of this, and it's an image they are hell-bent on protecting.

Many consumers actually convince themselves that they need CUDA cores because they might need them to program something (they don't ever specify what they are doing). Or they believe they still need that fantastic x264 encoder because they might be the next big streamer on Twitch. AMD's frame generation is superior, but most don't know this.

My 6800m is 4 years old now and I don't care. It's still a fantastic performer. Probably going to be my top GPU for another 4 years. I'm a gamer, and enthusiast. I'm just not stupid. The market deserves the prices charged to them because this is what they allowed.

 

[AusWolf]

As long as Nvidia has a firm grip on its mass psychosis of the market, they will charge what ever they want (just like Apple), and their merry shoppers will happily buy them under some of the most asinine pretenses. They've convinced their market that upgrading is necessary. Without saying so many words, it's not really Nvidia's fault, it's the consumer's fault. Prices wouldn't be this high if the consumer was more intelligent. You see, Nvidia charges the prices they do not because AMD can't compete (because they do make competitive cards with competitive feature sets), they charge the prices they do because people buy at those prices. Nvidia is fully aware of this, and it's an image they are hell-bent on protecting.

Many consumers actually convince themselves that they need CUDA cores because they might need them to program something (they don't ever specify what they are doing). Or they believe they still need that fantastic x264 encoder because they might be the next big streamer on Twitch. AMD's frame generation is superior, but most don't know this.

My 6800m is 4 years old now and I don't care. It's still a fantastic performer. Probably going to be my top GPU for another 4 years. I'm a gamer, and enthusiast. I'm just not stupid. The market deserves the prices charged to them because this is what they allowed.

Beautifully said!

 

[JustBenching]

Beautifully said!

So sure, let's pretend he is correct, why does AMD then increase prices? If it's "just the consumers pretending they need cuda cores" or whatever, and obviously amd buyers are the smart ones, how can we explain eg. the MSRP of the 7900xt being obnoxiously laughably tragically bad? And let's not even touch the CPU space and the prices there

 

[AusWolf]

Don't have to call him anything to show he is wrong. So sure, let's pretend he is correct, why does AMD then increase prices? If it's "just the consumers pretending they need cuda cores" or whatever, and obviously amd buyers are the smart ones, how can we explain eg. the MSRP of the 7900xt being obnoxiously laughably tragically bad? And let's not even touch the CPU space and the prices there

Their CPUs are priced high because people buy them up like they do Nvidia GPUs, and their GPUs are priced high because they're trying to copy Nvidia.

 

[JustBenching]

Their CPUs are priced high because people buy them up like they do Nvidia GPUs, and their GPUs are priced high because they're trying to copy Nvidia.

So nvidia is responsible for amd's prices...lol, okay man.

 

[Zach_01]

So nvidia is responsible for amd's prices...lol, okay man.

No
They are saying it multiple times...
Buyers are

 

[sn2x]

As long as Nvidia has a firm grip on its mass psychosis of the market, they will charge what ever they want (just like Apple), and their merry shoppers will happily buy them under some of the most asinine pretenses.

Maybe for the high end (since AMD won't compete there this time), but I don't think that's true for the mid-range. Majority of 40-series GPUs sold were 4060, 4060 Ti and 4070. Those cards are not that much more than the AMD counterpart.

You see, Nvidia charges the prices they do not because AMD can't compete (because they do make competitive cards with competitive feature sets), they charge the prices they do because people buy at those prices.

Difference between 4060 and 7600XT MSRP is $30.
Difference between 4070 and 7800XT MSRP is $50.

It's not a huge difference to get better efficiency and DLSS, two things that can make a difference.

Its not like Nvidia is charging 1.5x - 2x what AMD is for similar performance...

Next gen will be no different. AMD will launch at a certain price. Nvidia will add a small premium on top (10-15%) on competing cards and it will greatly outsell AMD, because the price difference isn't big enough and the Nvidia features are too good.

 

[igormp]

they charge the prices they do because people buy at those prices. Nvidia is fully aware of this, and it's an image they are hell-bent on protecting.

This pretty much. Market is willing to pay high price for components, why wouldn't companies keep up with that?
Folks in here can complain about pricing all they want, that won't stop others from buying (for whatever reason) and prices from increasing still.

 

[Sound_Card]

AMD's launch prices were too high, market reacted, they lowered the prices. Not sure what the controversy is here. The 7900xt is $50 cheaper than the 4070ti and consistently beats it across the board. I still wouldn't pay that much money, but let's not pretend they are comprable to Nvidia.

 

[JustBenching]

Maybe for the high end, but I don't think that's true for the mid-range. Majority of 40-series GPUs sold were 4060, 4060 Ti and 4070. Those cards are not that much more than the AMD counterpart.


Difference between 4060 and 7600XT MSRP is $30.
Difference between 4070 and 7800XT MSRP is $50.

It's not a huge difference to get better efficiency and DLSS, two things that can make a huge difference.

Its not like Nvidia is charging 1.5x - 2x what AMD is for similar performance...

Next gen will be no different. 9070 XT will launch at a certain price. Nvidia will add a small premium on top ($100 or so) and it will greatly outsell AMD, becuase the price difference isn't big enough and the Nvidia features are too good.

No, in this distorted reality we live in we have to expect the market leader that is in an insanely dominant position and has the much better product to do the price cuts If you dare question that line of thinking youll be called psychotic.

It's easy to reverse the argument. The reason nvidia keeps increasing their prices is because their only competitor (that has an inferior product) increases them as well. I'd suggest people to stop buying amd gpus, that will force them to stop increasing prices and nvidia will have to follow.

 

[AusWolf]

So nvidia is responsible for amd's prices...lol, okay man.

No. AMD is responsible for following Nvidia's pricing. Don't put words into my mouth.

I'm sure it's a complex issue with the development costs of the chiplet GPU, TSMC's wafer prices and whatnot - the above is the simplified version.

 

[JustBenching]

AMD's launch prices were too high, market reacted, they lowered the prices. Not sure what the controversy is here.

And that's why buying nvidia is more cost efficient than buying amd. Cause nvidia cards don't lose value. I can sell my 2 year old 4090 (bought for 1849€) for 1400-1500€ and put that towards the 5090 (I won't, I always keep my old hardware). Now good luck with the resale value of 7900xt that you bought for 1149€ (that was the price when I bought my 4090).

 

[sn2x]

AMD's launch prices were too high, market reacted, they lowered the prices. Not sure what the controversy is here. The 7900xt is $50 cheaper than the 4070ti and consistently beats it across the board. I still wouldn't pay that much money, but let's not pretend they are comprable to Nvidia.

Or in the case of the 7600, AMD's original price was too high (where they told reviewers it was $300), and AMD dropped MSRP by $30, which still wasn't enough as the 4060 was still only $30 more.

 

[JustBenching]

No. AMD is responsible for following Nvidia's pricing. Don't put words into my mouth.

I'm sure it's a complex issue with the development costs of the chiplet GPU, TSMC's wafer prices and whatnot - the above is the simplified version.

Well to put it simply, a lot of people were arguing that the 4080 (due to SM count, bus width etc.) is basically a 4070 and should cost 500$. Which is fine, whatever, but following that logic the 7900xtx, which is it's performance competitor, should also cost 499$. Nobody stopped amd from doing so, and had they done so, everybody would be rocking one and nvidia would have to lower their prices or have them sit on the shelf. So I don't see how nvidia is any more responsible than amd frankly. Yet you are agreeing that it's somehow "nvidias mass psychosis on the consumer" that is driving prices up.

No, it's not. The consumer sees products from both companies being expensive and they proceed to just buy the better product.

 

[freeagent]

I would have bought XTX for that price.

 

[JustBenching]

I would have bought XTX for that price.

Obviously, who wouldn't.

But it doesn't make sense for amd to sell for that price, cause that gpu is probably 5 times more expensive to make compared to the 9800x 3d, so they'd rather use their limited fab capacity to make those instead. But somehow it's nvidia buyers that drive prices up, cause somehow if we decided to stop buying amd would decide to bleed money and use capacity for low margin gpus instead of high margin CPUs.

 

[freeagent]

If I were on the board, I would take a vote with the other members on taking more of a loss for a quarter or two just to get the cards out into peoples hands to get the word out.

Gotta get people talking, and marketing is BS these days and people see right through it.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

AMD isn't interested in a price war ever.

Prices are the easiest thing to manipulate after making a whole ass GPU (never understood pricing rumors, the price can change the day before launch if the manufacturers willed it).

NV simply drops their prices within $20-$30 of what AMD sets them at and now AMD is stuck in a situation where not only is everyone STILL buying Nvidia cards, but now they're making less money on each card sold too.

The 4870/5870 are literally the source of the whole "I want a competitive AMD so that I can buy NV cards cheaper" and there wasn't even a software advantage on NV's side at the time.

AMD priced up it's 7970 cause it had the fastest card on the market and remember the absolute bitch fit the gaming community threw...

 

[freeagent]

I am not part of the gaming community, I am part of the overclocking community

I do play games though, I am just not as hardcore about it as some others.

 

[igormp]

If I were on the board, I would take a vote with the other members on taking more of a loss for a quarter or two just to get the cards out into peoples hands to get the word out.

Gotta get people talking, and marketing is BS these days and people see right through it.

I don't think that'd be a good idea. AMD is already having a hard time with fab allocation, no reason to try to push for more GPUs with low profit margin when you can sell tons of CPUs and Instinct enterprise GPUs at high margins instead.

If anything, they'll focus on the iGPU offerings instead.

 

[AusWolf]

Well to put it simply, a lot of people were arguing that the 4080 (due to SM count, bus width etc.) is basically a 4070 and should cost 500$.

I think that's bullshit, so let's not even follow that logic (I do think the 4080 came massively overpriced, but I wouldn't go as far as calling it a 4070).

Which is fine, whatever, but following that logic the 7900xtx, which is it's performance competitor, should also cost 499$.

The 6700 XT launched for $479. Then, the 7800 XT that is 50% faster launched for $499. How much more performance would you want for the same price?

Yet you are agreeing that it's somehow "nvidias mass psychosis on the consumer" that is driving prices up.

No, it's not. The consumer sees products from both companies being expensive and they proceed to just buy the better product.

No. The consumer sees the 4090 / 5090, etc, starts drooling at the sheer performance, and buys one whether he needs one or not. This is the mass psychosis on the high-end, and that's why Nvidia doesn't care about the low-end. Why would they when their most expensive gear is selling like hotcakes for insane prices anyway?