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Silicon shortage is so bad, that Pentium 4, Core 2 Duo and Pentium Dual made a comeback

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not to be outdone, AMD is also bringing back one of its vintage CPUs


 
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Its not just Silicon its also the packaging/leadframes and diffusion that are causing issues
 
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My main machines at home are Core 2 quads and Core 2 duos; they seem to run Windows 10/11 well.
 

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Not really sure about that. It's easy to think that they are great for that, but in local used CPU market, their price is even lower. Pentium 4 is nearly worthless. The main problem with retro machines isn't CPUs, but rather motherboards. They are either expensive, on the verge of dying or somebody is trying to scam you and unload their no longer functional board. I got burned on eBay pretty bad and I wouldn't entertain a thought of buying from there again.
Yeah sure, this risk is part of the retro experience and some people like the challenge of repairing them etc. To me, it’s too much of a headache.

I still have my Pentium 4 Northwood 2.8GHz CPU. It’s in an Abit AI7 mobo with AGP slot, 2GB RAM and the thing still works fine. In fact, I overclocked it to 3.5GHz soon after I got it and it’s worked fine like that ever since. The graphics card was an AIW 9800 SE modded to a Pro.
 
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Yeah sure, this risk is part of the retro experience and some people like the challenge of repairing them etc. To me, it’s too much of a headache.

I still have my Pentium 4 Northwood 2.8GHz CPU. It’s in an Abit AI7 mobo with AGP slot, 2GB RAM and the thing still works fine. In fact, I overclocked it to 3.5GHz soon after I got it and it’s worked fine like that ever since. The graphics card was an AIW 9800 SE modded to a Pro.
For me it's not even a risk, it's straight up scam. I have bought two boards from eBay and they both were dead, didn't even turn on once, didn't even enter BIOS. And I bought what was supposedly tested and working.

BTW I was looking at socket 754 boards and first eBay board was some MSI with via K8T800 chipset and second was Asus with same chipset, maybe K8V Deluxe. MSI didn't show any signs of life, Asus was showing BIOS splash screen, but couldn't enter it. My own DFI K8T800Pro-ALF at first had RAM slot dead, later became temperamental, until it couldn't boot anymore. I had some nice 2004 hardware for that build:
Athlon 64 3700+ (2.4GHz)
2x WD Raptor 74GB
ATi X800 XT PE AGP
Audigy 2ZS
2x 1GB DDR400

I really can't diagnose and repair boards, so that computer was eventually replaced, but it would have been nice if eBay boards would have worked. I may have not needed to replace that computer with FM2 build. But admittedly I have learned that there's not much merit from building period correct computer. It was a good idea, but in practice it was only okay for old gaming, beyond that it's an useless machine. It was way too slow for web browsing and for almost anything else. I only used Windows XP with it, so OS wasn't a problem. I can admit that I wasn't interested enough in that specific era's gaming that I would build computer just for it. Despite that, I still appreciated that I had something like it, even if for a little while.
 

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@The red spirit That’s the trouble with private sales, they’re quite likely to be scams, or at least hiding something relevant.

btw I should clarify that my Pentium hardware I bought new in 2004 and was a high end gaming PC back then. I had Steam on it since then, too. Half-Life 2 was what got me into Steam at the time.

if one were to build such a PC now it shouldn’t be with a view to using it in a normal manner as it’s just too obsolete, but as a collector’s item to play around with and maybe show off, museum piece style.
 
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Not really. Compared to anything made by AMD they were really sad and depressing
Not for gaming. At gaming Intel still had the edge. It wasn't much of one, but it was there. There was also upgrade path to consider. Back then Intel didn't switch sockets everytime the wind changed and people knew that if they stuck with Intel they would have an upgrade path for future design advances. At the time AMD was playing musical sockets. Back then, Intel was the clear choice for a lot of people.
 
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Not for me or anyone else I know unless, no unless nothing just no.
 

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Though LGA775 chips are practically freebies these days, I actually find this fascinating if an exact chip is needed for a retro build etc.

Oh good, please don't mention Pentium D. Or D for desaster. I only remember this cpu for how slow it was.
You probably mix that up with Celeron D which sucked. Pentium D was an usable CPU when overclocked. My D925 hits 4.8GHz Cinebench stable with custom loop.
 
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Not for gaming. At gaming Intel still have the edge. It wasn't much of one, but it was there. There was also upgrade path to consider. Back then Intel didn't switch sockets everytime the wind changed and people new that if they stuck with Intel they would have an upgrade path for future design advances. At the time AMD was playing musical sockets. Back then, Intel was the clear choice for a lot of people.
Phil's Computer Lab did a lot of good benchmarking about Pentium 4, Athlon 64, Core 2 Duo, Quad, Athlon X2 and etc... And while Intel didn't switch sockets so fast, they made them incompatible. Also Intel made socket 423, socket 478 and socket 775, after Pentium 4 more or less became obsolete and first boards only supported up to Pentium D. Only later Intel made boards that worked with Core 2 chips and that's mostly because Core 2 series were a hack job and needed chipset to make it work as a single CPU. Oh and in 478 days, Intel made some boards with DDR or with RDRAMM, so despite keeping the same socket name, it was nearly as bad as AMD and unlike Intel, AMD was making some really solid products. Even socket 754 was pretty much perfect for Athlon 64, you didn't need anything more than it. Socket 939 didn't bring any real advantage, sure it did support dual channel RAM, but it didn't make a difference as K8 chips just simply didn't benefit from that. 939 supported dual cores, that's something, but then again once single cores ceased to be adequate, lots of software supported quads. Dual cores became a chips for budget buyers, but didn't really make sense for high end machines as some games were unplayable on dual cores (like Red Faction Guerilla or Far Cry 2) or very unpleasant sub 40 fps suffering (Racedriver Grid). In terms of performance, K8 wasn't a clear winner, but it consumed much less power and required much lesser memory to perform the same as P4, and due to massive IPC advantage, pretty much any overclock to them, meant that they could take on fastest Pentium 4s and Pentium Extremes, even without overclock K8 was already as fast or faster. Only in some very specific tasks, where long pipeline of Pentium 4 could be utilized, Pentium 4 and derivatives performed better, but those tasks were mostly productivity tasks, not gaming. And if you wanted something better than Athlon 64, you could buy Opteron, which had more cache and overclock it or buy Athlon 64 FX, a very overpriced Athlon 64 with some enthusiast features like unlocked multi. The ultimate K8 platform was Quad FX, which combined two Athlon 64 FX chips, but that came out in Core 2 Quad era and didn't make any sense by then.

In gaming Athlon 64 (X2) was often beating Pentium 4 (D) or performing similarly:

If by edge you mean trailing in the back of all benches, then Pentium D certainly did that. And it wouldn't have been that bad if Intel made Pentium 4 or Pentium D truly cheap, but those also ran much hotter, required serious platform pampering to achieve anything worthy (buying only fastest RAM, perhaps RDIMMs), consumed more power and ended up costing the same. Argument could be made than in Pentium D days AMD didn't have an affordable dual core and Pentium D was cheaper, but considering that it was all around worse and required much of additional investment to make it perform competitively enough, going with Pentium D was a questionable decision. Even worse was that early Pentium 4s were already a bit antiquated on launch, due to not supporting 64 bit OS, still relying on chipset RAM controller. It was also bad that upper tier Pentium III chips beat first socket 423 Pentium 4s, despite some brainwashing from Intel claiming otherwise here:

Intel tarnished their reputation, after they were awfully beaten to 1GHz race and Athlon 1GHz outperformed Pentium 3 1GHz, also Athlon XP offered much better value than Pentium 4. Considering how poor Intel's reputation must have been after several failures to outcompete AMD, Pentium 4 was a massive disgrace. On top of that, once Pentium 4 was done for and Intel decided to bury it for good, they used Pentium M cores from Pentium III to make Core 2 Duo, which was decent, but angered some fans still believing that Pentium 4/D wasn't crap. And Intel at the time had bribed lots of OEMs to sign exclusivity deals, so that Athlon XPs, 64s wouldn't sell as well and they did succeed at that. It was probably the best thing they did as company to stop AMD from outperforming them in market. It was illegal, so Intel had to pay a bit fines afterwards, but they made some sale and profited more than they lost. But one thing was clear, they didn't have a strong competitor to AMDs chips. AMD was annihilating them at budget (Semprons), mid tier (Athlon 64s), high end (upper end Athlon 64s), Athlon FX and servers (Opteron). In comparison Intel's Celerons were a complete garbage even at budget and got beaten badly by Semprons. Mostly, because Semprons had lower clocked K8 core with half cache disabled and 64 bit functionality removed. At mid tier, Pentium 4s were quite cheap, but they lost against Athlon 64 in efficiency, overclockability, power consumption. At high end Intel didn't have anything proper, Pentium Extreme Edition didn't clock as high as expected and thus was just higher clocked Pentium 4 with extra cache (Intel expected to hit 5GHz by 2001, that clearly didn't work out and despite that even lower clocked chips turned into disaster due to Sudden Northwood Death Syndrome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_4#Northwood_(Extreme_Edition) it was due to excessive electromigration, due to too high voltage and too much heat on node that can't take that and it was done for higher clock speed).

Clear choice or not, but imo there was no reason to fanboy for Intel in those malaise days. AMD hammered them hard (pun intended). Overclocked Athlon 64 was just simply unbeatable by any Pentium 4. Even this crazy rig couldn't beat Athlon 64 on air:

Even at 4GHz, Pentium 4 was only a match to Athlon 64 4000+, a 2.6GHz K8 chip:

Now overclock that Athlon 64 4000+ and it will be above 4GHz Pentium. And for that matter, even overclocked Athlon 64 3000+ (let's say 2.8-3.1GHz) would be beating Pentium 4 EE overclocked to 4Ghz.
 

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This aint due to the shortage, its due to covid locking people down and a demand for more hardware for the work at home crowd
 

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Next we will have M$ bringing back XP :laugh:

I'd like to see some new/old stock of some Athlon XP Barton cores loading the shelves. :p
 

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Next we will have M$ bringing back XP :laugh:

I'd like to see some new/old stock of some Athlon XP Barton cores loading the shelves. :p
Id like to get a Legit 3200 again to replace my AXP-M
 

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Id like to get a Legit 3200 again to replace my AXP-M

Hmm, I might still have 2 of them man. I'll check tomorrow and if so, I'll shoot ya a PM bro.

EDIT: It would be the 200FSB version as well.
 

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Hmm, I might still have 2 of them man. I'll check tomorrow and if so, I'll shoot ya a PM bro.

EDIT: It would be the 200FSB version as well.

Yes that's correct, not the 166.5 (333) version. I killed 1 via modding a hsf tension clip, crushed the poor die. That was obviosly before 2007
 
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This aint due to the shortage, its due to covid locking people down and a demand for more hardware for the work at home crowd
Whatever it is, it's hilarious. So far, C19 super rig looks like this:
Pentium 4 630
GT 730 GDDR5 (GDDR5 for those last feelings of performance to not atrophy)

I wonder what will happen to SSDs, PSUs, cases, motherboards and etc. How low will they sink into poverty speccing everything. A comeback of 700 series nVidia cards wasn't specials, those cards were still manufactured and sold for a long time before a shortage and they served as display adaptors, so it's just a shock for people in USA, who already have forgotten them, but Pentium 4? Now that's truly unprecedented. New old stock or not, but it's crazy that you can buy literally 16 year old chips brand new. I'm just speechless. They probably ain't gonna sell any as there is a proper supply of some LGA 1200 chips, but it baffles me why would a big company would do something that is nearly suicidal for profits. At least those GT 730s serve a function as display adapters and light gaming devices, but Pentium 4 is completely useless, unless for retro rigs, which in my country is pretty much unheard of.
 

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At least those GT 730s serve a function as display adapters and light gaming devices
Weird how they still haven't brought the GT 1010 to the market as it was announced in January.
 
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I think you misunderstand me. I'm not fanboying. Just being objective about the past.
Objective or not, but Athlon 64 was clearly better. Perhaps your favourite game ran better on Pentium 4, Pentium 4 isn't physically incapable of beating Athlon 64 entirely, but due to such specific architecture it almost never beat AMD Hammer chips. Objectively, AMD K8 performed better in most scenarios and was even more obvious choice if you wanted to overclock. The ultimate budget firecracker from 2004 would have been Athlon 64 2800+ or Athlon 64 3000+ with socket 754 board, which had nVidia nF3-250Gb chipset. That chipset had separate locks for clockspeed, meaning that CPU clock could be manipulated separately from AGP/SATA/RAM and etc. speeds. That was an important feature, as too high not locked speed could nearly instantly corrupt hard drives. And considering that those chips are just lower clocked K8 chips with maybe less cache (depended on specific core), they would almost surely clock to at least 2.8GHz. They might clock further, but not much data is there about that as coolers in 2004 were nothing like they are today. So with modern cooler, I would expect 3.4GHz, if you don't run out of volts. Back then on AMD stock cooler realistic overclock would have been 2.7Ghz, enough to match Pentium 4 EE and give Athlon 64 FX a run for the money. Those low end Athlons were 100-130 USD, meanwhile top tier Athlon 64 FX, was 1000 USD. So there was a ton of value to be gained from overclocking. If you would have picked parts right, there is basically no extra investment to be made for overclocked computer. With about 500 USD it was possible to have a platform that beat even the highest end chips. In terms of graphics cards, well ATi X800 Pro could be flashed to unlock 4 more pipelines, overclocked further, voltmodded with potentiometer and for cooling ATi Silencer 4 slapped on it. Card with mods would have been 400 USD and again it would have beaten the top tier ATi X800 XT Platinum Edition or nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra. All in all a 1500 USD machine back then could have been faster than the beefiest most expensive parts. Pentium 4 platform would have been a lot more expensive Rambus memory, more expensive boards, requirement for dual channel RAM, mandatory cooler upgrade) and at stock not overclockable and likely dead after few weeks due to SNDS. Pentium 4s were the first well known chips to throttle due to insufficient stock cooling. Back then Pentium 4 cooler thick sunflower cooler with copper core and even that was not enough to tame it.

Weird how they still haven't brought the GT 1010 to the market as it was announced in January.
The card exists, it's just cut down GT 1030 GDDR5 version. It is likely faster than 1030 DDR4 and since it is currently OEM only card, it will likely never come to retail as it would directly compete with GT 1030 DDR4. Performance of it is poor, but somehow it can still run some titles surprisingly well:

It's weird why 1030 DDR4 exists, rather than why 1010 never came. Seemingly poor company decisions lead to DDR4 cards :D
 

freeagent

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I killed 1 via modding a hsf tension clip, crushed the poor die. That was obviosly before 2007
Good times!

Like clipping the cooler on a socket A CPU without the corner cushion pads. You cant unhear that sound of the corner crunching on that die :D
 

eidairaman1

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Good times!

Like clipping the cooler on a socket A CPU without the corner cushion pads. You cant unhear that sound of the corner crunching on that die :D
Mine wasnt corner crunch, none of die chipped off, it flat crushed lol

It pissed me off because that chip was only 3 yeard old...
 

freeagent

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Mine wasnt corner crunch, none of die chipped off, it flat crushed lol

It pissed me off because that chip was only 3 yeard old...
I feel your pain brotha.

I lost a new Zotac AMP! GTX285 due to my stupidity. I still hold myself responsible :laugh:

She was such a good clocker, I only had it for a work week. It sparked when I shorted the backside.

I poured a little iced tea into my mouth for our fallen hardware.. rip.
 
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