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Unpopular opinion: GPU shortage is actually a good time

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yes its quite a bargain, but ive got £650 in my head so im gonna wait for a bit. id bet scan soon runs outa stock with that deal.
 
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You're still stuck in 2017 era of "mid tier. 200-300 € is no longer "mid tier", not with 1440p and 4K high refresh rates gaining more popularity. With 4K 144 Hz gaining ground mid tier will now be 1440p high refresh rate. 200-300€ is now the low-mid tier but yeah, there's nothing out there brand new that matches this price range.
That there are higher end options doesn't make mid tier, not mid-tier. In automotive industry Camry is still a family saloon, Porsche Boxter is still a sports car, Porsche 911 is still a super car. And lately a new tier was created, called hyper cars. Same with graphics cards. Mid tier is mid tier, meanwhile RTX 3070 is certainly high end. RTX 3080 is the flagship. Meanwhile, something like RTX 3090 is Huang said, is a "BFGPU". When money is no object. 10 years ago, there wasn't anything like RTX 3090. Even Titan wasn't as high end as RTX 3090 is now. But the existence of RTX 3090 or RTX 3080 doesn't change the fact that mid tier card is RTX 3060 (and would be GTX 3060, without RTX extras). And lower mid tier card would be RTX 3050 Ti, with entry level card being the good old GT 1030 and cheap display driver still remaining GT 710 or GT 1010.

Unless this changes low end will be down to whether or not you want to buy a console and use basic PC for office stuff.
I dunno. It seems that lack of GTX 3060 or RX 6600 is corona special, so that nV and AMD stay profitable and have at least as much stock as they have now. On the other hand, Intel's UHD 750 has really stepped up the game for entry level gamers. It's getting close to integrated Vega 11 and is definitely usable for pretty much any AAA title at 720p low and many older AAA titles at 1080p low. Also AMD and nV are now probably selling a lot of GT 1030s and RX 550, despite them being old and not so great, it's what people are able to afford and they are available. That's a step up from UHD 750 or Vega 11 or anything less. I personally find new Intel chips with UHD 750 interesting value proposition now. You can get it with i5-11500, which has been in Europe far more available than any APU with Vega 11 and it has lower MSRP as well as actual market prices. Knowing Intel, they haven't gimped PCIe lanes, like AMD does (they only have 8 PCIe lanes in APUs). That makes Intel particularly attractive now and later, when cards will be cheaper. Intel platform seems to be better suited for long term inexpensive ownership. You also have better control of TDP and that's a nice extra. And Intel platform is far more stable and dependable than AMD has been with Ryzens, and you don't need to install AMD's crapola to use your computer. If this is still boring to you, there are cheap used RX 570s and RX 580s, going for 170 Euros and that's enough to play at 1440p 60 fps. And who knows how will technologies like FSR, RIS and DLSS will affect low end GPUs. On low end hardware, they can overburden low end graphics, but if you have good enough GPU, it helps to improve your framerate. IMO 2021 has been quite interesting for low end gamers, it's only painful due to there not being any 200-300 Euro card for us.
 

FireFox

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You're still stuck in 2017 era of "mid tier. 200-300 € is no longer "mid tier", not with 1440p and 4K high refresh rates gaining more popularity. With 4K 144 Hz gaining ground mid tier will now be 1440p high refresh rate. 200-300€ is now the low-mid tier but yeah, there's nothing out there brand new that matches this price range. Unless this changes low end will be down to whether or not you want to buy a console and use basic PC for office stuff.

It's the only German retailer that's shipping outside of Germany to Poland (yeah yeah, mindfactory ships to Austria and Denmark or something like that). I'm well aware of their prices being higher than the competition. It's still cheaper than prices in Poland right now (but I'm not touching them unless they match the MSRP).
Why does anyone in Poland have to go to Germany to get a videocard? Poland's a huge country why aren't there any etailers there?
 
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Why does anyone in Poland have to go to Germany to get a videocard? Poland's a huge country why aren't there any etailers there?
Officials etailers are as bad as scalpers with pricing.
 

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Knowing Intel, they haven't gimped PCIe lanes, like AMD does (they only have 8 PCIe lanes in APUs). That makes Intel particularly attractive now and later, when cards will be cheaper. Intel platform seems to be better suited for long term inexpensive ownership. You also have better control of TDP and that's a nice extra. And Intel platform is far more stable and dependable than AMD has been with Ryzens, and you don't need to install AMD's crapola to use your computer.

Perhaps you need some actual hands on with Ryzen instead of hopping on the questionable bandwagon.
  • 8x only lanes are only a thing on mobile. The Renoir and Cezanne desktop APUs have 16x lanes for the GPU like everyone else.
  • The chipset drivers have only really mattered performance-wise for chiplet CPUs - if you want to believe otherwise that "crapola" is necessary, get your hands on a 4650G or 5600G first? Windows Update automatically fetches the basic chipset drivers just like it would Intel ME firmware, and off you go to the races.
  • "Better control of TDP" just sounds like you haven't comprehended the simple PPT controls that every UEFI affords you, yet you're able to get a grasp of equally simple PL1/PL2/tau?
  • "Far more stable" is a hoooooot take - maybe you'd have some credibility referring to Z490 and Comet Lake (which was largely solid due to nothing being new), but you clearly aren't.
 
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Officials etailers are as bad as scalpers with pricing.
You and the rest of the Polish people should do something about that. You shouldn't have to go to Germany or ANYWHERE else in the Europeon Urinal to get decent hardware. Long live the Visegrad!
 
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You and the rest of the Polish people should do something about that. You shouldn't have to go to Germany or ANYWHERE else in the Europeon Urinal to get decent hardware. Long live the Visegrad!
I don't have to go anywhere. I can order everything online and have it delivered via DHL or UPS. That's how I got my 1060, directly from caseking when the previous mining boom ended.
And there's nothing that can stop retailers from increasing prices. All you can do is boycott them and not give in.
 
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Perhaps you need some actual hands on with Ryzen instead of hopping on the questionable bandwagon.
  • 8x only lanes are only a thing on mobile. The Renoir and Cezanne desktop APUs have 16x lanes for the GPU like everyone else.
Sorry, I read somewhere that and author clearly wrote that about 3200G.


  • The chipset drivers have only really mattered performance-wise for chiplet CPUs - if you want to believe otherwise that "crapola" is necessary, get your hands on a 4650G or 5600G first? Windows Update automatically fetches the basic chipset drivers just like it would Intel ME firmware, and off you go to the races.
Well, you need chipset drivers, that AMD used to package in catalyst install manager, which was installed and did nothing. And if you have APU, then you need to install APU drivers. That's bearable if you only use APU, but if you decide to use a discrete cards like RTX 2060, you will have AMD Crimson combined with nV's crapola GF Experience, nV's Control Panel. And after removing APU drivers you could never be sure if AMD's software didn't also wipe out chipset drivers. That's a pain.


  • "Better control of TDP" just sounds like you haven't comprehended the simple PPT controls that every UEFI affords you, yet you're able to get a grasp of equally simple PL1/PL2/tau?
I'm aware of PPT and some amp limiter. They are okay, but they are only for when you enable AMD's boost. AMD also doesn't have anything like Tau. Also on AMD side you have Windows power plan bullshit with special power plans just for Ryzens, because apparently Ryzen is too cool for Windows. I think that Intel is far better at power usage tweaking and adjustment. AMD is still in FX recovery phase and their technologies lack polish.

  • "Far more stable" is a hoooooot take - maybe you'd have some credibility referring to Z490 and Comet Lake (which was largely solid due to nothing being new), but you clearly aren't.
Ryzens are clearly not great there. USB issues, RAM compatibility issues, shitton of AGESA updates. Ryzen has been awful at stability even for AMD standards. And this is the experience of person, who used every single Ryzen gen:

In short, it could be described as sticked to poop that will always remain poop and maybe will get polished a bit by time. Experience on Intel side is literally putting everything together and it works perfectly forever. And that's about motherboards and CPU's, but if you perhaps bought Ryzen machine with 3600 and RX 5700 XT, you were royally screwed with having most unstable modern garbage. RX 5000 series to this day still have black screen issues and it has one of the biggest RTG failure, probably since Terrascale 2. AMD tried to do something with drivers, but tin the end they mostly didn't resolve that widespread problem. I have read that return rate of those cards was around 20%. That's a lot and it pretty much ruined RDNA1. And also made my opinion to solidify that AMD doesn't give an f if they release something barely functional and with major issues. In FX days, some lower end boards were caching on fire due to incorrect specs that AMD provided. FM2+ was generally an incompatibility mess too. Needless to say, I don't trust AMD at all these days, despite owning almost everything exclusively AMD.

And here is this bloke:

Pretty much says that Intel is good at engineering unlike some others and they are good at being attentive to details, unlike some others. Intel has been dominating in mobile and enterprise space, not only because they delivered good performance, but because they delivered strong overall package and big part of it is making sure that clients trust their stuff to work exactly as expected without any exceptions and bullshit. Which is where AMD has been poor at for decades. The only cool trick that AMD has is "we made it faster". People that rely on their hardware, are pleased by that, but ensuring trust is still the most important thing to them.

You and the rest of the Polish people should do something about that. You shouldn't have to go to Germany or ANYWHERE else in the Europeon Urinal to get decent hardware. Long live the Visegrad!
lol People from Lithuania go to Poland to buy food cheaper. That's just how EU works.
 

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Im going to take your food away Red Spirit, just to see how "creative you get" and how you "appreciate what you have/had" etc
 
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Im going to take your food away Red Spirit, just to see how "creative you get" and how you "appreciate what you have/had" etc
Do you eat GPUs, mate? I didn't know that Terminator was hanging out at TPU :eek:
 
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Do you eat GPUs, mate? I didn't know that Terminator was hanging out at TPU :eek:
Terminators don't eat period. They terminate. And they don't do a very good job at that either.
 
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Terminators don't eat period. They terminate. And they don't do a very good job at that either.
Nonsense, depending on your kind of terminator they eat different things. Terminator of this type:

Drinks a lot of gasoline and some oil, meanwhile terminators of this type:



Certainly enjoys metal, leather and electronics. And the we have the last type of terminators:

They seemingly are quite chill and try to eat human food to better integrate into human society.
 
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Ryzens are clearly not great there. USB issues, RAM compatibility issues, shitton of AGESA updates. Ryzen has been awful at stability even for AMD standards. And this is the experience of person, who used every single Ryzen gen:
I've used Zen and Zen 2 and I've had no USB issues or RAM compatibility issues. Everything works perfectly fine, and if it doesn't, it's because I did something stupid, such as trying to install IomegaWare on Windows 10 (this caused Windows to bootloop, meaning reinstall).
In fact, I'm currently running a mixed set of RAM at an OC. 2x8GB 3200 C14-14-14-31 B-Die, 2x8GB 3200 C16-18-18-38 Nanya Tech, at 3333 C16-16-16-32. No stability problems, all that was required was a RAM voltage bump to 1.4V from 1.35V (IMC is at 1.1V, but that's standard for XMP/DOCP).
Experience on Intel side is literally putting everything together and it works perfectly forever.
They've also spent 6 years releasing basically the same thing. It's not super hard to make everything work almost perfectly when you're just ironing out bugs for the past 6 years. I know there's IPC improvements but 14nm can't go forever.
Pretty much says that Intel is good at engineering unlike some others and they are good at being attentive to details, unlike some others. Intel has been dominating in mobile and enterprise space, not only because they delivered good performance, but because they delivered strong overall package and big part of it is making sure that clients trust their stuff to work exactly as expected without any exceptions and bullshit. Which is where AMD has been poor at for decades. The only cool trick that AMD has is "we made it faster". People that rely on their hardware, are pleased by that, but ensuring trust is still the most important thing to them.
There's also that they've bribed OEMs to use their CPUs over AMD. Here, give this a read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices,_Inc._v._Intel_Corp.
 
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I've used Zen and Zen 2 and I've had no USB issues or RAM compatibility issues. Everything works perfectly fine, and if it doesn't, it's because I did something stupid, such as trying to install IomegaWare on Windows 10 (this caused Windows to bootloop, meaning reinstall).
In fact, I'm currently running a mixed set of RAM at an OC. 2x8GB 3200 C14-14-14-31 B-Die, 2x8GB 3200 C16-18-18-38 Nanya Tech, at 3333 C16-16-16-32. No stability problems, all that was required was a RAM voltage bump to 1.4V from 1.35V (IMC is at 1.1V, but that's standard for XMP/DOCP).
1.2V is the official spec for DDR4. Are you sure that yours isn't dying already?

They've also spent 6 years releasing basically the same thing. It's not super hard to make everything work almost perfectly when you're just ironing out bugs for the past 6 years. I know there's IPC improvements but 14nm can't go forever.
There weren't any IPC improvements since Skylake until Rocket Lake. Rocket Lake was a modest IPC bump, but that's it. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that every Core i chips worked fine and platforms didn't have any major issues. Unlike Ryzen, which was borderline unusable at launch and later became usable with some annoying problems.

There's also that they've bribed OEMs to use their CPUs over AMD. Here, give this a read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices,_Inc._v._Intel_Corp.
I'm aware of all these things, but really AMD has been untrustworthy brand for a long time. And if they start to make properly reputable products, then it will take a long time to regain the lost trust.
 
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1.2V is the official spec for DDR4. Are you sure that yours isn't dying already?
"Official spec" LOL. That's for 2133 to 2666 MHz RAM, which is the "official spec" for DDR4.
XMP/DOCP profiles set the RAM voltage to 1.35V for 3200 kits (all I own), kits with higher frequencies and/or tighter timings require more voltage. 1.4V is fine for the RAM to take; it's been running that way since March and still holding strong with no problems. B-Die can take up to 1.5V if you cool it properly. The Nanya Tech dies I don't know what voltage is best since there's basically no info anywhere on the Internet.
The RAM does get a bit toasty but a small fan strapped over the modules solved that problem.
This is besides the point though.
I'm aware of all these things, but really AMD has been untrustworthy brand for a long time. And if they start to make properly reputable products, then it will take a long time to regain the lost trust.
This piques my interest. What have they done that's "untrustworthy"?
They're a corporation, and their entire goal is to make money. Same goes for Intel, NVidia, ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, Seasonic, Corsair, ECS, Dell, XFX, EVGA, ASRock, TSMC, and basically any other major player in the tech market. I bet that every single one of the companies I listed has done something untrustworthy.
 
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"Official spec" LOL. That's for 2133 to 2666 MHz RAM, which is the "official spec" for DDR4.
Official spec also included 2933MHz kits and I think it now includes 3200MHz kits too. I don't see anything funny about it, it's just a spec to avoid having stupid problems. And it's plenty fast too. You can take a look at it here:

Puget systems also underspec RAM to 2666MHz, so that Ryzen systems are more stable and robust. They also claim that it makes them more dependable and durable.


XMP/DOCP profiles set the RAM voltage to 1.35V for 3200 kits (all I own), kits with higher frequencies and/or tighter timings require more voltage.
That's questionable. I have Corsair XMS3 DDR3 kit and it tightens timings a bit without any voltage change.

1.4V is fine for the RAM to take; it's been running that way since March and still holding strong with no problems. B-Die can take up to 1.5V if you cool it properly. The Nanya Tech dies I don't know what voltage is best since there's basically no info anywhere on the Internet.
The RAM does get a bit toasty but a small fan strapped over the modules solved that problem.
lol imagine having a fan over RAM.


This piques my interest. What have they done that's "untrustworthy"?
They're a corporation, and their entire goal is to make money. Same goes for Intel, NVidia, ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, Seasonic, Corsair, ECS, Dell, XFX, EVGA, ASRock, TSMC, and basically any other major player in the tech market. I bet that every single one of the companies I listed has done something untrustworthy.
Sure they did, but AMD is decently untrustworthy right now. Ryzen is still not completely fixed and it's been out since like 2017. Also AMD handled RX 5000 series fiasco poorly, many cards still black screen and reported RMA rate of those things is nearly 20%. That's awful. And pretty much since forever, AMD still doesn't stick to their TDP spec. That's kinda normal for them, but they could have adjusted PTT to stop that from happening, which they really should have done.
 
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That's questionable. I have Corsair XMS3 DDR3 kit and it tightens timings a bit without any voltage change.
DDR3 and DDR4 are different, and even if your kit was DDR4 you don't have the same chips I do. I was able to run the sticks at 1.35V but I could only boot every other boot attempt,. A bump-up to 1.4 fixed it.
lol imagine having a fan over RAM.
It's not my fault DIMMs are put super close together; if I could I'd make a custom heatsink with heat pipes to a fin stack and a fan. Super overkill but would definitely keep them cool.
The fan does solve heat issues though with no noise penalty.
 
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DDR3 and DDR4 are different, and even if your kit was DDR4 you don't have the same chips I do. I was able to run the sticks at 1.35V but I could only boot every other boot attempt,. A bump-up to 1.4 fixed it.
So you weren't really able to boot at 1.35V, it clearly didn't work correctly. And it seems that your memory can't properly handle those timings and speed without overvolting it a lot. 1.2 volts is standard for DDR4 and some modules can do 3200MHz with that. Yours clearly fails and requires a massive overvolt. I remember 1.65V being quite high for DDR3, meanwhile 1.5V was standard and there were some low power DIMM doing 1.3V stock. 0.2V increase for DDR4 is a lot.


It's not my fault DIMMs are put super close together; if I could I'd make a custom heatsink with heat pipes to a fin stack and a fan. Super overkill but would definitely keep them cool.
The fan does solve heat issues though with no noise penalty.
It sure does create some noise, there's no such thing as noiseless fan. And no normal memory should ever require fans. Fans are only for memory overclocking. You know, some JEDEC DIMMs have no heatspreader and they run just fine at 3200MHz.
 
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I thought this was about gpu shortage? Used 3070s are going for $400 in HK if you buy in bulk.
 
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