When will gpu prices return to normal.

[Valantar]

Motherboards are suffering the same fate as smartphones have - as they see an ever increasing amount of features and high speed IO stuffed into them, BOM, costs, design complexity and production difficulty all skyrocket, taking prices with them. And like smartphones, we're seeing more an more people settle for more midrange offerings as, well, they don't actually need heaps of PCIe 4.0 or 5.0, 50-phase VRMs or all the thunderbolts and USB4s and fancy NICs etc for a regular pc build. Contrast this to CPUs that are wildly expensive to design but relatively cheap to manufacture (small die sizes, massive economies of scale), and you see why motherboards are pulling away in terms of price.

 

[Dirt Chip]

Motherboards replaced CPU's in the cost department. CPU's were in the past ridiculously expensive in various model. But, motherboards I do not remember being as expensive as they are now and they are now going up from the sounds of it. So they just swapped places.

At least part of it is on the fault of heumen 'need' of esthetic.
Way too much resources of verius kinds going to make mobo (and othe tech) looks 'good' and 'stand out', with no other benefit at all.

This trand pulling all the industry in that directiom, making a non-RGB a 'spacial' thing that cost even more in some cases.
In the end, even if you dont wand it you pay for the design and bling bling stupid (in my opinion) lights, screes and other plastic 'beauty' parts.

So to a rapidly growing part, we have only ourselves to blame.

 

[Bomby569]

I agree, you can do incremental. But it also ends up being quite expensive over time from experience. Most gamers don't upgrade often though and I think the GTX 1060 6gb is still most popular GPU in gaming currently.

You will be surprised how many do buy parts every year. I dont want you to get detached from reality either.

None of that matters though and nothing to do with what I am saying and is a pointless conversation. The facts are in yours and my face. Prices on components are through the roof and it isn't coming down, at least not anytime soon. People are still buying them. Otherwise, they wouldn't be priced at what they are.

there are more people in the market, a lot more, then a couple of years ago. Hell, go back a some time and the PC was almost dead, now everyone wants a gaming PC, let's not mention a school PC, a work PC a facebook PC, etc...

That PS5/Xbox comparison must include the difference in game prices. Prices are much cheaper on PC and for the last couple of years you could even game for free just on EPIC freebies alone. Not everything is black or white.

 

[KLiKzg]

mid range pc doesn't take that much power if you don't go crazy, the problem is more on the high end.

Mid range 30-series card are about 200~250W, while 40-series cards will push that from 200~300W.
Those are the numbers from 7, 8, 9 & 10-series high cards!

In a current energy crisis, GPU prices for a new ones will not go down. But the selling of the older ones started! Ebay is full of offers.

 

[Bomby569]

Mid range 30-series card are about 200~250W, while 40-series cards will push that from 200~300W.
Those are the numbers from 7, 8, 9 & 10-series high cards!

In a current energy crisis, GPU prices for a new ones will not go down. But the selling of the older ones started! Ebay is full of offers.

you're based on rumours, wait and see.

 

[Palladium]

I dunno, but maybe a big part of the recent price crash beside crypto-related is because the pixel pushing PC games aren't really that fun to begin with.

 

[Bomby569]

I dunno, but maybe a big part of the recent price crash beside crypto-related is because the pixel pushing PC games aren't really that fun to begin with.

the AAA games that demand the latest and greatest gpu's have all been big disappointments for sure, and there is so few of them anyway. AAA has been a disaster lately.

the really good games coming out latelly you can do with last gen hardware.

 

[Palladium]

the AAA games that demand the latest and greatest gpu's have all been big disappointments for sure, and there is so few of them anyway. AAA has been a disaster lately.

the really good games coming out latelly you can do with last gen hardware.

Well I'm more interested in BOTW2 than any upcoming PC related, and its not like I can't play the PC games I want well enough anyway on my 2060S or 1070.

 

[KLiKzg]

you're based on rumours, wait and see.

All the data from 30-series & below are valid & confirmed. So still, your comment might be true only for the older cards.

Like older older card in vintage section, not going to need extra power more than 100W for GPU. & to hit that in mid-range models, you have to go to Tesla models - which is something like 8600 GTS or 9600 GT (not GTX, which goes above 100W).

We are all just getting power-hungry. In all newer CPUs, GPUs, etc.

 

[Bomby569]

All the data from 30-series & below are valid & confirmed. So still, your comment might be true only for the older cards.

Like older older card in vintage section, not going to need extra power more than 100W for GPU. & to hit that in mid-range models, you have to go to Tesla models - which is something like 8600 GTS or 9600 GT (not GTX, which goes above 100W).

We are all just getting power-hungry. In all newer CPUs, GPUs, etc.

we are talking about mid range. The 1060 is 120W the 3060 170W (you can go with team red, the similar rx6600 is 132W), it's not an insane difference. The ryzen 1600 and the 5600 are 65W.

 

[Valantar]

At least part of it is on the fault of heumen 'need' of esthetic.
Way too much resources of verius kinds going to make mobo (and othe tech) looks 'good' and 'stand out', with no other benefit at all.

This trand pulling all the industry in that directiom, making a non-RGB a 'spacial' thing that cost even more in some cases.
In the end, even if you dont wand it you pay for the design and bling bling stupid (in my opinion) lights, screes and other plastic 'beauty' parts.

So to a rapidly growing part, we have only ourselves to blame.

That's just plain inaccurate. Sure, designing for aesthetics has some cost, over just not giving a damn whatsoever. But that cost is low, even when taken to extremes of large molded shrouds, tons of RGB, etc. Compared to the added PCB layers and higher quality PCB materials needed for current high speed I/O (PCIe, USB/TB, RAM) and the cost of building out VRMs capable of efficiently delivering hundreds of amps of power, the cost of aesthetics is negligible. It does somewhat allow board makers to charge more, as it allows them to pass off products as fancier/more premium, but the actual cost is negligible. LEDs, LED controllers and some injection molded plastic are all dirt cheap additions compared to the actual necessities of delivering tons of PCIe 5/4, USB 3.2x2/4/TB3/4, etc.

Yes, high end board prices have exploded, and that is in large part due to being able to sell them as premium products - which also necessitates looking the part. But the more meaningful change is low end boards, which have crept up $50-100 despite many of them still not having even a VRM heatsink, let alone any RGB or other major aesthetic additions.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

That's just plain inaccurate. Sure, designing for aesthetics has some cost, over just not giving a damn whatsoever. But that cost is low, even when taken to extremes of large molded shrouds, tons of RGB, etc. Compared to the added PCB layers and higher quality PCB materials needed for current high speed I/O (PCIe, USB/TB, RAM) and the cost of building out VRMs capable of efficiently delivering hundreds of amps of power, the cost of aesthetics is negligible. It does somewhat allow board makers to charge more, as it allows them to pass off products as fancier/more premium, but the actual cost is negligible. LEDs, LED controllers and some injection molded plastic are all dirt cheap additions compared to the actual necessities of delivering tons of PCIe 5/4, USB 3.2x2/4/TB3/4, etc.

Yes, high end board prices have exploded, and that is in large part due to being able to sell them as premium products - which also necessitates looking the part. But the more meaningful change is low end boards, which have crept up $50-100 despite many of them still not having even a VRM heatsink, let alone any RGB or other major aesthetic additions.

Good call on the motherboard trend. A few years back, I went WAY back in my Newegg purchase history for reasons, and found that I'd paid over $100 for the MB in my 2009 build. It was only a P45, and not a fancy one either. Cut to today, and one can get a B550 or B660 board (P45's rough modern equivalents) for about the same cost. Then again, there are options out there for both at nearly 300 Benjamins. So maybe everybody's right.

 

[Dirt Chip]

That's just plain inaccurate. Sure, designing for aesthetics has some cost, over just not giving a damn whatsoever. But that cost is low, even when taken to extremes of large molded shrouds, tons of RGB, etc. Compared to the added PCB layers and higher quality PCB materials needed for current high speed I/O (PCIe, USB/TB, RAM) and the cost of building out VRMs capable of efficiently delivering hundreds of amps of power, the cost of aesthetics is negligible. It does somewhat allow board makers to charge more, as it allows them to pass off products as fancier/more premium, but the actual cost is negligible. LEDs, LED controllers and some injection molded plastic are all dirt cheap additions compared to the actual necessities of delivering tons of PCIe 5/4, USB 3.2x2/4/TB3/4, etc.

Yes, high end board prices have exploded, and that is in large part due to being able to sell them as premium products - which also necessitates looking the part. But the more meaningful change is low end boards, which have crept up $50-100 despite many of them still not having even a VRM heatsink, let alone any RGB or other major aesthetic additions.

Maybe they are cheap and contribute very small amount to the bill of material but thay make an excuse to charge more on 'preimum' product for no good reason.

So you end paying much more for the smae exact hardware only for it to 'look pretty'

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

I reckon there is a reason the cheapest MB's are still green/blue PCB's and do not come with plastic covers or fancy heatsinks. It is mostly extra labor that adds up.

 

[Lei]

News des 20./21. August 2022 | 3DCenter.org

Da gewünscht, gibt es nun doch noch einen weiteren Blick auf den Stand der Grafikkarten-Preise der bald auslaufenden Ampere/RDNA2-Generation. Unter Einrechnung genau dieses Umstands bzw. klarer Abverkaufspreise an der Leistungsspitze des Alt-Portfolios

www.3dcenter.org

Availability is going down a bit, means people are buying.
Ethereum profitability going up a bit, means some miners left the field.

On the covid side, Japan is #1 in the world now. Didn't expect USA ever going to become 2nd.

 

[catulitechup]

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[Valantar]

Maybe they are cheap and contribute very small amount to the bill of material but thay make an excuse to charge more on 'preimum' product for no good reason.

So you end paying much more for the smae exact hardware only for it to 'look pretty'

But that's the exact misunderstanding that's going on here: it's not the same hardware. Not even close. It looks similar, but beneath the surface you have more PCB layers, higher quality materials, more expensive controllers, more expensive VRMs, +++. They also have gussied-up looks, but that's not why they're more expensive than seemingly similar motherboards that came before. If your motherboard has PCIe 4.0 vs. a previous version with 3.0, then it is more expensive to produce - period. Economies of scale are starting to shrink this gap a bit (finally!), but it'll never reach the levels of the previous sweet spot of cost and I/O, simply because the newer tech increases base production and design costs above what would have been possible with previous I/O generations.

That doesn't mean that looks aren't also used as a marketing tactic, in part to justify the higher prices, but claiming that a focus on aesthetics are on any level causal to motherboard prices increasing is just plain wrong. This isn't "we slapped a fancy shroud on and now we can charge 50% more", it's "our margins are so low we are barely surviving after these cost increases, but if we produce more of a premium product, we can avoid going under as people will more easily pay for that."

 

[Dirt Chip]

But that's the exact misunderstanding that's going on here: it's not the same hardware. Not even close. It looks similar, but beneath the surface you have more PCB layers, higher quality materials, more expensive controllers, more expensive VRMs, +++. They also have gussied-up looks, but that's not why they're more expensive than seemingly similar motherboards that came before. If your motherboard has PCIe 4.0 vs. a previous version with 3.0, then it is more expensive to produce - period. Economies of scale are starting to shrink this gap a bit (finally!), but it'll never reach the levels of the previous sweet spot of cost and I/O, simply because the newer tech increases base production and design costs above what would have been possible with previous I/O generations.

That doesn't mean that looks aren't also used as a marketing tactic, in part to justify the higher prices, but claiming that a focus on aesthetics are on any level causal to motherboard prices increasing is just plain wrong. This isn't "we slapped a fancy shroud on and now we can charge 50% more", it's "our margins are so low we are barely surviving after these cost increases, but if we produce more of a premium product, we can avoid going under as people will more easily pay for that."

We agree and say the same thing in the end.
I'm not saying that LED and plastic is the main cause of increasing cost but that it is there and it's part is everly growing.

You are absolutely right to say that the HW advancement lead, rightfully to some %, the price increase but that not the case (IMO) when talking abou lead an plastic that dont contribute anything to your IO choice, performance, tweet ability and so on.

In conclusion: I can accept some sort of increase due to better HW but cannot accept any kind of increase just to make it look pretty. And it getting worse every gen.

 

[KLiKzg]

we are talking about mid range. The 1060 is 120W the 3060 170W (you can go with team red, the similar rx6600 is 132W), it's not an insane difference. The ryzen 1600 and the 5600 are 65W.

Thank you for proving my point!

960 & 1060 & 1660 ~120W
2060 ~160W
3060 ~170W
4060 is said to be ~200W

 

[Bomby569]

Thank you for proving my point!

660 & 1060 & 1660 ~120W
2060 ~160W
3060 ~170W
4060 is said to be ~200W

just the 12GB Vram vs the 6GB on the 1060 vs 3060 alone have to use power, they don't run on fairy dust

 

[KLiKzg]

just the 12GB Vram vs the 6GB on the 1060 vs 3060 alone have to use power, they don't run on fairy dust

2060 6GB ~160W
2060 12GB ~184W

Please, you are embarrassing yourself, with data freely available on this web page's database.

 

[Dr. Dro]

With PS5 you get RX 5700 / RX 6600 equivalent, currently priced at $260 and ZEN2, so not that outrageous. The GPU part is now very outdated and needs a $100 price adjustment. so it might be cheaper overall, but it lacks the upgradeability and customization, except for Nvme and the side panel and the ability for PC workloads. and until recently it didn't support 1440p so it's either 4k30 or 1080/60, but no middle ground. Maybe I want 1440p/120. And you have to buy the mouse/ keyboard attachement to be able to compete at all.

The problem with buying a PS5 is that you don't get to enjoy your games the way you want to, you only do it the way Sony allows you to, strictly on their terms and they're all too happy to tell you how and what you can and cannot enjoy because of their censorship policies and tightly controlled walled garden environment. For anyone who considers video games a form of art rather than consumable, passable entertainment or, God forbid, a "toy", the PS5 is simply not an option. And I consider video games the maximum expression of art.

Motherboards are suffering the same fate as smartphones have - as they see an ever increasing amount of features and high speed IO stuffed into them, BOM, costs, design complexity and production difficulty all skyrocket, taking prices with them. And like smartphones, we're seeing more an more people settle for more midrange offerings as, well, they don't actually need heaps of PCIe 4.0 or 5.0, 50-phase VRMs or all the thunderbolts and USB4s and fancy NICs etc for a regular pc build. Contrast this to CPUs that are wildly expensive to design but relatively cheap to manufacture (small die sizes, massive economies of scale), and you see why motherboards are pulling away in terms of price.

Agreed, but there's an even worse problem, which is excessive fluff in practically every SKU from the upper-midrange onwards. All the new ROG boards coming with built-in OLED screens and the sort, just... why?

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

2060 6GB ~160W
2060 12GB ~184W

Please, you are embarrassing yourself, with data freely available on this web page's database.

So 6GB of VRAM uses 24W - and the 3060 uses less power than the 2060 12GB, with faster VRAM. I call that a win, however small.

 

[Dr. Dro]

So 6GB of VRAM uses 24W - and the 3060 uses less power than the 2060 12GB, with faster VRAM. I call that a win, however small.

No, not even that. The 12 GB RTX 2060 is not the same type of GPU, it has the same amount of CUDA cores as the RTX 2060 Super, just on a narrower bus width. It should be a little faster than a regular 2060, the extra power limit is some allowance to let those extra few execution units stretch their legs a little bit.

 

[ModEl4]

AMD & NVIDIA Partners Ready To Offer More Brutal Price Cuts On GPUs In September, Current Cuts Not Moving Inventory As Expected

The sound of graphics card price cuts has been heard for a long time, but many users are not aware of it. According to the revelations of Taiwan Economic Daily, the main reason is that manufacturers are still discussing better preferential measures with dealers .

According to the latest news from Taiwan Economic Daily, the industry's destocking is not as good as expected. Graphics card manufacturers will start a new wave of price cuts from September, mainly NVIDIA and AMD products, and the price cuts will far exceed the previous efforts, which can be better to alleviate cost pressures.