overcastYou can't possibly be serious about this. The Wii may invent some new innovative gameplay, but the fact of the matter is it CAN NOT compete graphically we either of those systems. End of story.
Wii has great graphics, and it surpasses the previous gen graphics, but it's not always about how the game looks. It's also about gameplay, and the Wii is showing the different way of playing the game. Just because it doesn't have and HD-DVD or Blu-Ray w/ High Definition graphics doesn't mean it's not "Next-Gen". Tell me, did you ever read a minimum requirements list for being "Next-Gen"? No, I don't think so. The Xbox 360 and PS3 are attracting (online) gamers and people who want to have a media console as well, but the Wii is attracting gamers, and non-gamers as well. They even have Opera Browser for surfing the net, and future games (like Super Smash Bros. Brawl) will be online as well! The Wii is going to be attracting many gamers, non-gamers, and Nintendo Fans alike, and at a low price point of $250, and great Nintendo games, there is no doubt that Nintendo's Next-Gen console will be successful.
Again, there is no minimum requirement to be "Next-gen", so stop saying it's not.
Jimmy 2004Analogue sticks just don't cut it for me in shooters. I'll admit that they are great for driving games and games like Fifa and Pro Evo but in a shooter they just can't aim as quickly and accurately as a mouse can, I have yet to try the Wii controller so I won't comment but I have read that it is better than analogue sticks. Either way, I expect my PC will always be my platform for FPS, espcially online. BF2 on the Xbox is no where near as good as it is on the PC, I've played both versions and just can't get to grips with it on the 360.
True, true. I've played Call of Duty 3 on the Wii and man is it great. The accuracy is so much better than Analogue sticks. Not sure about PC, but they're damn close, it depends what you're used to. If you've noticed, Nintendo is coming out with more FPS on their Next-Gen console, like Red Steel, Far Cry, and Call of Duty 3 for example, and it's a good way to show how the Wii handles FPS.
15th WarlockI don't think I'll get a Wii, the controller advantage may be lost when third party manufacturers release controllers with the same functions for the PS3 and the 360.
I doubt that any controller w/ similar functions as the Wiimote on the Xbox 360 or PS3 will perform better, since their games aren't meant for that style, or at least solely depending on it. (except maybe PS3's SixAxis, but it's use isn't as huge as Wiimote's use for games.)
OK, so if all gamers should care about is gameplay and not graphics why is it that us PC gamers spend so much money on more 'graphically' advanced graphics cards each time a new one is released? Its not to enhance gameplay its to make the games look better! Would so many people be playing CS Source if its was 'stick men' running around with guns? I dont think so, graphics play a big part in gaming aswell as gameplay!
HookeyStreetOK, so if all gamers should care about is gameplay and not graphics why is it that us PC gamers spend so much money on more 'graphically' advanced graphics cards each time a new one is released? Its not to enhance gameplay its to make the games look better!
HookeyStreetOK, so if all gamers should care about is gameplay and not graphics why is it that us PC gamers spend so much money on more 'graphically' advanced graphics cards each time a new one is released? Its not to enhance gameplay its to make the games look better! Would so many people be playing CS Source if its was 'stick men' running around with guns? I dont think so, graphics play a big part in gaming aswell as gameplay!
Up until last may I was still playing sof2. I stopped playing only because bf2 is more fun to play with friends. Visuals are nice, but if it isn't fun to play, what's the point? Besides, even the gamecube hardware is ample for decent looking games, just look at what they did with RE4. As much as people didn't like the game, Mario sunshine was very pretty, amazing water effects. The wii has more than enough under the hood to push decent visuals, though, I think these launch titles weren't given as much of a visual effort as could have been made.
HookeyStreetOK, so if all gamers should care about is gameplay and not graphics why is it that us PC gamers spend so much money on more 'graphically' advanced graphics cards each time a new one is released? Its not to enhance gameplay its to make the games look better! Would so many people be playing CS Source if its was 'stick men' running around with guns? I dont think so, graphics play a big part in gaming aswell as gameplay!
I never said that did I? I was saying that people keep saying that Nintendo's Wii isn't Next-Gen because of it's graphics, and I just replied that graphics isn't everything, and Nintendo made a system with good graphics, but more focus on a better gameplay style.
And also us PC users upgrade to get better graphics, but also to be able to play demanding games at a faster framerate. if you had a bad graphics card, it wouldn't make Counter-Strike:Source look like stick figures, but it wouldn't run it at all.
InfDamarvelIm sure you know how to use google yourself sir.
LOL!, thanks for the tip, but you see, that's the problem, every site you may find on google with solid info on the Wii's CPU says it's based on the Gamecube's old CPU on a smaller process and a faster clock, that's why I asked for a link that states it has "exactly the same core" as the 360 but with less cores :p
HookeyStreetOK, so if all gamers should care about is gameplay and not graphics why is it that us PC gamers spend so much money on more 'graphically' advanced graphics cards each time a new one is released? Its not to enhance gameplay its to make the games look better! Would so many people be playing CS Source if its was 'stick men' running around with guns? I dont think so, graphics play a big part in gaming aswell as gameplay!
Because the capability to get better graphics with the SAME game is possible.
If you could get better graphics in Halo by upgrading a single component in your xbox, wouldn't you too? :slap:
overcastYou can't possibly be serious about this. The Wii may invent some new innovative gameplay, but the fact of the matter is it CAN NOT compete graphically we either of those systems. End of story.
Yeah, because launch title games are always capable of taking 100% advantage of the hardware, compared especially to a console thats been out for a year :rolleyes:
15th WarlockLOL!, thanks for the tip, but you see, that's the problem, every site you may find on google with solid info on the Wii's CPU says it's based on the Gamecube's old CPU on a smaller process and a faster clock, that's why I asked for a link that states it has "exactly the same core" as the 360 but with less cores :p
HookeyStreetThe CPU on the Wii is a IBM Power PC based CPU named 'Broadway' (clocked at 729MHz) and the 360's CPU is a Tri-Core IBM Power PC based CPU named 'Xenon' (clocked at 3.2GHz) so how can they be the 'same' CPU ???? The Wii's CPU is actually closer in performance to the GameCubes IBM Power PC based CPU named 'Gekko' (clocked at 485MHz)
Wow. Dumbest comment of the year. Proved me right within yourself.
You DO understand "power" in "power PC" is the ARch. type right?
Hence the Broadway being a single core underclocked Powerpc, while the 360 uses a triple core overclocked one.
Which is also why Nintendo remains to make a profit for every console, rather than losing $100+.
Wanna prove me right more?
Unless "broadway" and "xenon" make them different, that must make Applebred and Thuroughbred, different RIGHT?
Seriously, don't compare useless codenames like a fanboy, and learn the mechanics of how the console is put together.
The Xenon is extremely similar to the G5 CPU, with modifications to make it better suited to gaming, and prevent PC usage like the regular Xbox. (G5 was ofcourse, catered to Apple's needs at the time)
Broadway is no different. They are both PowerPC based.
Look into IBM's portfolio of CPU design sometime.
Aside from customizations for each company, the basic CPU design is essentially the same...
today at school proved nintendo's success for me: i heard from both people who had gotten a PS3 or a Wii (or both). People with wiis pretty much couldn't shut up about how awesome they were, whereas the PS3 front was pretty much a round of silence.
XooMtoday at school proved nintendo's success for me: i heard from both people who had gotten a PS3 or a Wii (or both). People with wiis pretty much couldn't shut up about how awesome they were, whereas the PS3 front was pretty much a round of silence.
Whats the ratio of actual PS3 owners to Wii owners? Did those who claim to have a PS3 wait out in the cold to get one, are they rich enough to buy it off ebay?
In all the photos for PS3 lines, how many kids did you see?
ghost101Whats the ratio of actual PS3 owners to Wii owners? Did those who claim to have a PS3 wait out in the cold to get one, are they rich enough to buy it off ebay?
In all the photos for PS3 lines, how many kids did you see?
Whats it matter?
even 2 ps3 owners not running around bragging says everything.
And I'm sure theres probably more than 2... if not at that school, elsewhere.
Even better if its 5-10 ps3 owners, and 2 wii owners..... :P
DippyskoodlezEven better if its 5-10 ps3 owners, and 2 wii owners..... :P
considering the number of wii's available is >> than the number of ps3's that were available, and the wii's sold out, I think the figures would be reversed.
List of Things to Get
-Wii
-The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
-Nintendo Wii Classic Controller
-Component Cables
-Other Great Wii Stuff (more games, accessories, etc)
hands down the wii looks like a great system, it is next gen for people who say it isn't, seen the wii commercails, exactly, Never seen a system were you do physical stuff that interacts in the game, the legend of zelda looks like a fantastic game.
DippyskoodlezWow. Dumbest comment of the year. Proved me right within yourself.
Whoa Nelly, easy there boy, don't want to burst an artery in your brain :p
DippyskoodlezYou DO understand "power" in "power PC" is the ARch. type right?
Hence the Broadway being a single core underclocked Powerpc, while the 360 uses a triple core overclocked one.
So by your definition, all processors that carry the "PowerPC" moniker are the same; I'm sorry to disappoint you, but that is not the case. IBM has been using the "PowerPC" brand name since they introduced the PPC 601 CPU, RS/6000 back in 1994, but you can trace its roots to the MPC601, introduced in 1992 by IBM, they had to wait a couple of years for Apple to introduce a new line of Macintosh computers while the 680x0 based MacOS could be emulated to run on the newer architecture.
Since then, IBM (and Motorola briefly) introduced many new processors branded as "PowerPC" CPUs, with each new processor iteration featuring many architectural enhancements over the previous generation.
The "Broadway" CPU found on the Wii, is itself based on the PowerPC G3 architecture, specifically the 32bit IBM PPC 750CL series on a 90nm process, which was based on the PowerPC 740/750 architecture introduced back in 1997. The 750CL has 50 new instructions and a modified FPU capable of rudimentary SIMD support. This is almost the same processor as the PowerPC 750CXe "Gekko" IBM used for the Gamecube, only it migrated from a 180nm process to the 90nm SOI (CMOS) technology process mentioned before, and it runs at 900Mhz.
On the other hand, each of the three cores found on the "Xenon" CPU found on the 360, is derived from the PowerPC 970 architecture (a.k.a. Power Mac G5), released on October 2002. This line of processors features IBM's VMX vector engine (a.k.a. AltiVec or Velocity Engine, also used in Freescale's PowerPC G4, but not found on the 750 G3). They are also able to process both 32-bit and 64-bit PowerPC instructions natively. These procs also reach much higher clocks (3.2 in the Xenon) and have more L2 cache. It's suspected IBM uses the same 970 architecture for the PPE found in the PS3's "Cell" processor as well.
As you can see, both architectures are quite different, with each of the "Xenon's" fully 64bit, 2 VMX-128 units cores having a clear advantage over the old 32bit PPC 750CL G3 "Broadway" processor.
DippyskoodlezUnless "broadway" and "xenon" make them different, that must make Applebred and Thuroughbred, different RIGHT?
Seriously, don't compare useless codenames like a fanboy, and learn the mechanics of how the console is put together.
As you may see, different architectures can have the same commercial brand name, even though their basic designs are completely different. What you imply here is akin to saying that all "Pentium" processors are the same, even though a "Katmai" based Pentium II is radically different from a "Prescott" based Pentium 4.
DippyskoodlezThe Xenon is extremely similar to the G5 CPU, with modifications to make it better suited to gaming, and prevent PC usage like the regular Xbox. (G5 was ofcourse, catered to Apple's needs at the time)
Broadway is no different. They are both PowerPC based.
Yes, as I said before, each of the three "Xenon" cores are not only extremely similar to the G5 CPU in their design, but derived from the very same architecture, which is on itself, not the same as the Wii's G3 PPC 750CL architecture. If you ask anyone who has been into Apple computers for the last 10 years, he will tell you the same thing.
DippyskoodlezLook into IBM's portfolio of CPU design sometime.
I invite you to do the same thing, in fact, I leave you with some interesting links that may help you better understand IBM's PowerPC architecture, and the CPUs found in both the WIi and Xbox360:
And its not like it matters, the Wii is slightly more powerful than a Xbox which was the last most powerful system that actually was never used to its full extent. It you look at titles like the last released need for speed on the xbox you can see the graphic different the 360 and the Xbox were not that different.
Nintendo has yet to even use the Wii to its full graphical and processing capabilities. Infact most of the games out minus Zelda(Which is actually a gamecube game modded) were all rushed and developed on guess what? GAMECUBE DEVELOPMENT KITS.
So the true capabilities of the Wii should be seen in 07 around March, infact March 07 is the real battle of these gaming systems with big games like Halo 3, Metal gear Solid, And the Nintendos top game IMO Super Smash (Galaxy also releases and looks really nice graphically!)
In my own opinion, I think the PS3 has the ability to be the best system this go around. Except they are not going to have the game titles like they did in the past. And Wii in no way wont fail IF they can put out those 3rd party more mature type games. (They succeed in Japan though since the 360 is out sold by the Gamecube and PS2 there)
And Just the the DS when the Wii gets online games...the Nintendo world is going to change. FINALLY SOME SUPER SMASH ONLINE! IMA DESTROY YOU ALL!.
15th WarlockOn the other hand, each of the three cores found on the "Xenon" CPU found on the 360, is derived from the PowerPC 970 architecture (a.k.a. Power Mac G5), released on October 2002. This line of processors features IBM's VMX vector engine (a.k.a. AltiVec or Velocity Engine, also used in Freescale's PowerPC G4, but not found on the 750 G3). They are also able to process both 32-bit and 64-bit PowerPC instructions natively. These procs also reach much higher clocks (3.2 in the Xenon) and have more L2 cache. It's suspected IBM uses the same 970 architecture for the PPE found in the PS3's "Cell" processor as well.
Yes, as I said before, each of the three "Xenon" cores are not only extremely similar to the G5 CPU in their design, but derived from the very same architecture, which is on itself, not the same as the Wii's G3 PPC 750CL architecture. If you ask anyone who has been into Apple computers for the last 10 years, he will tell you the same thing.
Yeah, too bad the G3 and G5 both run the same code. The g5 just has extra instructions.
Theres a performance difference yes, but the arch. is close enough to remain in the power series...and the code is not radically different.
If you wanna argue G3 vs G5, I can assure you theres no individual kernels in OS X for different CPU styles... 64 bit however is another story.
Adding SSE3 to a Prescott didnt make it a "different" processor.....
Reading through this its far from what I mean, but it might due... I;m tired and trying to raid something in WoW at the same time
Ofcourse, you're going to get a radically different performance from each, one had to be completely revamped for multicore use! Letalone the massive price difference in yields...
EDIT: Its like comparing an AXP to an A64.
Yeah, one has a memory controller and IPC enhancements, but at the heart.... they are almost identical...
DippyskoodlezYeah, too bad the G3 and G5 both run the same code. The g5 just has extra instructions.
Theres a performance difference yes, but the arch. is close enough to remain in the power series...and the code is not radically different.
If you wanna argue G3 vs G5, I can assure you theres no individual kernels in OS X for different CPU styles... 64 bit however is another story.
Adding SSE3 to a Prescott didnt make it a "different" processor.....
Reading through this its far from what I mean, but it might due... I;m tired and trying to raid something in WoW at the same time
Ofcourse, you're going to get a radically different performance from each, one had to be completely revamped for multicore use! Letalone the massive price difference in yields...
EDIT: Its like comparing an AXP to an A64.
Yeah, one has a memory controller and IPC enhancements, but at the heart.... they are almost identical...
I get the feeling that you dont like being proved wrong Dippyskoodlez :roll: LMAO
66 Comments on Wii disected
Again, there is no minimum requirement to be "Next-gen", so stop saying it's not.
And also us PC users upgrade to get better graphics, but also to be able to play demanding games at a faster framerate. if you had a bad graphics card, it wouldn't make Counter-Strike:Source look like stick figures, but it wouldn't run it at all.
If you could get better graphics in Halo by upgrading a single component in your xbox, wouldn't you too? :slap:Yeah, because launch title games are always capable of taking 100% advantage of the hardware, compared especially to a console thats been out for a year :rolleyes:Wow. Dumbest comment of the year. Proved me right within yourself.
You DO understand "power" in "power PC" is the ARch. type right?
Hence the Broadway being a single core underclocked Powerpc, while the 360 uses a triple core overclocked one.
Which is also why Nintendo remains to make a profit for every console, rather than losing $100+.
Wanna prove me right more?
Unless "broadway" and "xenon" make them different, that must make Applebred and Thuroughbred, different RIGHT?
Seriously, don't compare useless codenames like a fanboy, and learn the mechanics of how the console is put together.
The Xenon is extremely similar to the G5 CPU, with modifications to make it better suited to gaming, and prevent PC usage like the regular Xbox. (G5 was ofcourse, catered to Apple's needs at the time)
Broadway is no different. They are both PowerPC based.
Look into IBM's portfolio of CPU design sometime.
Aside from customizations for each company, the basic CPU design is essentially the same...
In all the photos for PS3 lines, how many kids did you see?
even 2 ps3 owners not running around bragging says everything.
And I'm sure theres probably more than 2... if not at that school, elsewhere.
Even better if its 5-10 ps3 owners, and 2 wii owners..... :P
i'm going to get this when i get a wii
:D
-Wii
-The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
-Nintendo Wii Classic Controller
-Component Cables
-Other Great Wii Stuff (more games, accessories, etc)
Since then, IBM (and Motorola briefly) introduced many new processors branded as "PowerPC" CPUs, with each new processor iteration featuring many architectural enhancements over the previous generation.
The "Broadway" CPU found on the Wii, is itself based on the PowerPC G3 architecture, specifically the 32bit IBM PPC 750CL series on a 90nm process, which was based on the PowerPC 740/750 architecture introduced back in 1997. The 750CL has 50 new instructions and a modified FPU capable of rudimentary SIMD support. This is almost the same processor as the PowerPC 750CXe "Gekko" IBM used for the Gamecube, only it migrated from a 180nm process to the 90nm SOI (CMOS) technology process mentioned before, and it runs at 900Mhz.
On the other hand, each of the three cores found on the "Xenon" CPU found on the 360, is derived from the PowerPC 970 architecture (a.k.a. Power Mac G5), released on October 2002. This line of processors features IBM's VMX vector engine (a.k.a. AltiVec or Velocity Engine, also used in Freescale's PowerPC G4, but not found on the 750 G3). They are also able to process both 32-bit and 64-bit PowerPC instructions natively. These procs also reach much higher clocks (3.2 in the Xenon) and have more L2 cache. It's suspected IBM uses the same 970 architecture for the PPE found in the PS3's "Cell" processor as well.
As you can see, both architectures are quite different, with each of the "Xenon's" fully 64bit, 2 VMX-128 units cores having a clear advantage over the old 32bit PPC 750CL G3 "Broadway" processor.As you may see, different architectures can have the same commercial brand name, even though their basic designs are completely different. What you imply here is akin to saying that all "Pentium" processors are the same, even though a "Katmai" based Pentium II is radically different from a "Prescott" based Pentium 4.Yes, as I said before, each of the three "Xenon" cores are not only extremely similar to the G5 CPU in their design, but derived from the very same architecture, which is on itself, not the same as the Wii's G3 PPC 750CL architecture. If you ask anyone who has been into Apple computers for the last 10 years, he will tell you the same thing.I invite you to do the same thing, in fact, I leave you with some interesting links that may help you better understand IBM's PowerPC architecture, and the CPUs found in both the WIi and Xbox360:
titancity.com/articles/ppc.html
lowendmac.com/orchard/05/0801.html
www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-powarch/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_G3
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_970
arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-2.ars
arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061031-8112.html
And its not like it matters, the Wii is slightly more powerful than a Xbox which was the last most powerful system that actually was never used to its full extent. It you look at titles like the last released need for speed on the xbox you can see the graphic different the 360 and the Xbox were not that different.
Nintendo has yet to even use the Wii to its full graphical and processing capabilities. Infact most of the games out minus Zelda(Which is actually a gamecube game modded) were all rushed and developed on guess what? GAMECUBE DEVELOPMENT KITS.
So the true capabilities of the Wii should be seen in 07 around March, infact March 07 is the real battle of these gaming systems with big games like Halo 3, Metal gear Solid, And the Nintendos top game IMO Super Smash (Galaxy also releases and looks really nice graphically!)
In my own opinion, I think the PS3 has the ability to be the best system this go around. Except they are not going to have the game titles like they did in the past. And Wii in no way wont fail IF they can put out those 3rd party more mature type games. (They succeed in Japan though since the 360 is out sold by the Gamecube and PS2 there)
And Just the the DS when the Wii gets online games...the Nintendo world is going to change. FINALLY SOME SUPER SMASH ONLINE! IMA DESTROY YOU ALL!.
Theres a performance difference yes, but the arch. is close enough to remain in the power series...and the code is not radically different.
If you wanna argue G3 vs G5, I can assure you theres no individual kernels in OS X for different CPU styles... 64 bit however is another story.
Adding SSE3 to a Prescott didnt make it a "different" processor.....
Reading through this its far from what I mean, but it might due... I;m tired and trying to raid something in WoW at the same time
Ofcourse, you're going to get a radically different performance from each, one had to be completely revamped for multicore use! Letalone the massive price difference in yields...
EDIT: Its like comparing an AXP to an A64.
Yeah, one has a memory controller and IPC enhancements, but at the heart.... they are almost identical...
also this is a funny pic on the game...Snake sneaking behind link.