Reality has finally caught up to Intel despite their talking nonsense again to fool the folks on Wall Street. The results this past quarter were pretty dismal and their stock price took a dollar hit for it today. In addition Intel is firing over a 1,000 more employees, selling their flash memory Biz in Israel and they tried to deceive with this quarters numbers by selling off assets to Marvel. Otherwise they would have really shown how bad things are financially.

The U.S. PC market is saturated just like the U.S. auto market. All companies are looking to less economically developed countries for new sales and growth. Intel has their work cut out for them with under utilized fabs, lower margins, major increases in R&D costs, and little to show for it all. It should be no surprise that AMD could punish Intel once again with their next gen products, as Intel knows full well. The times, they are a changin' and the CPU prices, they are a droppin'.

bornfreeThe U.S. PC market is saturated just like the U.S. auto market.

That's pretty much IT, in a nutshell: I agree... until a system combo that outraces mine by a GOOD 30-40% out there surfaces, & in ALL tests (benchmarks)? What is the POINT of my upgrading to the next 'best' thing (i.e.-> INTEL CONROE DUALCORE STUFF).

Sure - it's fast, but it's not SO fast I need to go out & blow cash again THIS year for a newer, albeit only MARGINALLY faster performer of a machine, imo @ least!

This IS why I "hold off" to every 4-5 years on new PC purchases really, just like w/ automobiles... & then, I rarely go for the "absolute top-shelf CPU/mobo offering", as they cost (as we all know, 'state-of-the-art/cutting-edge' always costs TOO much, especially for initial early adopters (who may also face bugs as well)).

When I DO buy? I tend to get almost literal DOUBLINGS of power vs. the machine I just replaced, by waiting out buys, every 4-5 yrs.

bornfreeIt should be no surprise that AMD could punish Intel once again with their next gen products, as Intel knows full well. The times, they are a changin' and the CPU prices, they are a droppin'.

Good point that... & the fact also exists that the world economy isn't what it used to be, especially in the USA, due to outsourcing of jobs & trends like "downsizing" (firing folks)... OR, folks taking wage cuts just to hold onto their jobs?

I mean, how are folks supposed to buy the "latest/greatest" (& EVERY year no less), when they don't have jobs that allow them enough 'disposable income' to do so, above & beyond essential bills (food, shelter, etc. et al)?

APK

P.S.=> Were I INTEL &/or AMD? I would watch yearly sales, & after a really GOOD year?? I'd hold off on releases between CPU's really... this trend you note (saturation) DOES have a lot of bearing on this stuff, as this evidences imo @ least... folks only buy "new/state of the art" every so often, as finances permit (@ least, 'normal/middleclass-lowerclass folks)... apk

Alec§taarSure - it's fast, but it's not SO fast I need to go out & blow cash again THIS year for a newer, albeit only MARGINALLY faster performer of a machine, imo @ least!

Good point! I never actually thought about it until now. W/My PC: AMD X2 4400+, I run Half-Life2 at 1680x1050 w/full graphics, and it plays a perfect framerate - it never drops below 60.

... However, I don't know how well it'll hold up by the end of this year.

I agree wholeheartedly with both of you. Bornfree you make a damn good case, and its nothing but the truth (not sure on the intel stuff you said, but Ill take your word). APK, you are also correct (wish my wife would be the same way with her automobile ::rofl::). There is nothing wrong with designing and offering new things, its just that, when you do offer it, dont expect a million folks to rush and buy it, because quite frankly, its hard to afford more than half of it. AMDS price drop on its processors was a great idea. Most if not all, are affordable. Intels new stuff is also affordable. But, they cant seriously expect us to shell out 1000 bucks for a processor when that 1000 can go toward mortgage, light bill, phone bill, gas, groceries and the like. Also, this job market, they seem to want to pay you less, and have you do more, but not compensate for it. The airlines and other factories (GM, Ford, Delphi) cutting pensions, 401k, retirement and offering buyouts because their P&L was dipping more to the L and less of the P makes me nucking futs, sick. Ill end my rant, with saying you both make valid points and thank you for it.

WarEagleAUThere is nothing wrong with designing and offering new things, its just that, when you do offer it, dont expect a million folks to rush and buy it, because quite frankly, its hard to afford more than half of it.

exactly. we see everyday how companies are pushing new technology while stuff they manufactured last month still has tons of bugs. ive been complaining about market saturation for months now, yelling about us consumers buying into all they hype. truth is we all know that a few of the larger key companies, like intel and amd, are hyping their products not just to the consumer but to other manufacturers. i mean a mainstream 1kW PSU? bah! so im glad finally reality has hit these mofos. stop filling us up with a bunch of empty promises and deliver a solid product that doesnt produce a balls load of heat. oh, and it would be nice if we could afford to buy it within 3 years of its initial release. we arent idiots. we know a good product when we see one. so spend some damned time on R&D and launch a great product. not a dozen garbage ones just to say you are the best.

WarEagleAUI agree wholeheartedly with both of you. Bornfree you make a damn good case, and its nothing but the truth (not sure on the intel stuff you said, but Ill take your word). APK, you are also correct (wish my wife would be the same way with her automobile ::rofl::).

It's NICE to have the "latest/greatest" & all that, but it can run you into the "poorhouse", & F A S T... especially for credit card junkies!

Question is - is it "prudent & judicious" spending? Hell, lol, is ANYTHING, in our world of 'built in product obsolescence'??

Buy it today - it's outta date, later today... & built to breakdown!

(Liquid filled capacitors come to mind, & INTEL lately put out mobos w/ SOLID capacitors in them, & from what I understand? THESE LAST WAY LONGER! Only now though... wtf!)

WarEagleAUThere is nothing wrong with designing and offering new things, its just that, when you do offer it, dont expect a million folks to rush and buy it, because quite frankly, its hard to afford more than half of it.

Agreed, & I do pretty ok financially (for a 'working class stiff' that is)... I work for my money, not the other way around & my money works for me (not like I would like it to @ least, lol!)

WarEagleAUAMDS price drop on its processors was a great idea. Most if not all, are affordable. Intels new stuff is also affordable. But, they cant seriously expect us to shell out 1000 bucks for a processor

Dead on straight up there... I can't swing it @ least either. NOT every single year consecutively, & no point... the gains are NOT that good. I have found, like I stated above? That every 4-5 years IS 'the mark' for the power justifying buying NEW/state of the art stuff again.

WarEagleAUwhen that 1000 can go toward mortgage, light bill, phone bill, gas, groceries and the like.

What TICKS ME OFF about this part, mostly? Housing...

Sure, you may THINK you 'own your home', but miss those quarterly &/or other taxes (school tax especially, insane if you don't have kids if you have to pay it, & YET, if you have kids or not? YOU PAY!), mortgage payment (this makes sense though to yank your place from you on though imo if you miss them)?

See what happens...

Owning a home, to me @ least? Seems like paying a diff. landlord only... you don't really OWN anything, but it SURE OWNS YOU!

"Indentured servants" all of us, fed a line of bullshit from the moment we're born (get a big house (get a lot of debt that owns you & responsibility for it), get a pretty wife (to have her leave you for the milkman & w/ half your ca$h to boot quite often as well as your kids), etc.)

Sure, you get equity eventually, but how many of us need that? To take loans out it's collateral (but, then you're in 'hock' again)... maybe to go buy more homes based on that one is a GOOD idea, but then, comes the responsibility of upkeep!

YOU CAN'T WIN IMO! Not really...

The "system's" NOT built for the little guy to win, not @ all... not imo @ least. NOT unless you're willing to live like COMPLETE SHIT for about a decade & scrimp + save... the only way.

WarEagleAUAlso, this job market, they seem to want to pay you less, and have you do more, but not compensate for it.

Here is where the banks & mortgage companies WIN & big... they KNOW you're probably going to face defaulting @ some point, because jobs aren't steady enough to last a 15 yr. mortgage out, not for a single person usually, typically.

Who wins? BANKS & LENDERS!

WarEagleAUThe airlines and other factories (GM, Ford, Delphi) cutting pensions, 401k, retirement and offering buyouts because their P&L was dipping more to the L and less of the P makes me nucking futs, sick.

Don't sweat it... that last part, maybe I should not have posted it, but there 'tis... I don't want to "mess up" young folks' views on things is why.

I am NOT the best person to listen to anyhow, I am NOT an 'expert on life' & 1/2 the folks I know think I am 'nuts' anyhow on a lot of things in life & my views on them anyhow.

STILL - Disillusionment... it kicked my ass hard many times in this life, & I am sure I am not alone in that either - once you start seeing how stuff out there works & the CRAP we're fed & led to believe?

WarEagleAUIll end my rant, with saying you both make valid points and thank you for it.

* Believe-you-me: I HEAR YOU LOUD & CLEAR + AGREE, 110%!

APK

P.S.=> CALIFORNIA: "REST IN PEACE" on this topic... it's putting a sour taste into my mouth too... sorry guys! apk

Yeah, its not so much what ya said Alec, its just, Ive been in the Rent-to-own business and had a store manager who wouldnt buy toilet paper, because he was worried about it cutting into his P&L. I understand the business world, and you are to make money. Nothing wrong with that. What bothers me is when you worry more about that, and less about employees and their futures. Because, lets face it, without employees, you dont have a business to service your customers. Im all for 401k and pensions. I was taught young, at my first job at Red Lobster, by the older black folks I worked around (being the only white dude in the kitchen). These people had tons of wisdom and really looked out for me. I love them like family and still keep in touch with them, 10 years later. their work ethic is instilled in me and my habits, when it comes to bills and buying stuff. I just get a little mad when companies start taking away from their hard working employees. Pensions are a nice thing, and they were back in the 70s, 80s and even 90s. But today, the world economy and all this crap, its making it hard to survive on anything. And lets face it, minimum wage should be called, we're trying to at least allow you one convenience in life, wage. This is a piss poor thing. minimum wage should be like $14.00/Hr, because no one in their right mind could survive on 5.35 an hour, yet along this hike to 7.25 they are planning. For minimum wage folks, the cost of keeping up with new technology is alot more than us decent wage makers. Id love to have my money work for me like it does the financial gurus, but its hard to get it done. Ah well...life goes on. But in the end, pensions and 401ks shouldnt be cut, they should be kept.

PS. I will be turning 28, next month (February 3rd) so while Im not super young, Im not old either. I listen to all wisdom passed down, whether anyone else thinks it is or isnt words of advice ::wink Alec:: (thank you for your posts, btw, they are enlightening to read, and I mean than honestly)

Yes I agree well with you all.
However, what I feel is worse is the fact that many companies give out raises and bonuses at around 3-5%.
Yet inflation (on a good year) is said to be about 3-5% percent.
So what are you getting in this?
Absolutely nothing.
So in the long run you can be getting paid more money a year, but it is equivalent to what you were getting paid years ago.
On top of that medical insurance goes up as well (another kick in the :nutkick: )

WarEagleAUYeah, its not so much what ya said Alec, its just, Ive been in the Rent-to-own business and had a store manager who wouldnt buy toilet paper, because he was worried about it cutting into his P&L.

Been there & done that... literally almost the same (regarding new clothes)

Heck, I wore the same stuff for around 7 yrs. & tried to take care of it, so I could put money into an account I had stashed & remained untouched... (it worked out in the end).

Did this in my late 20's, around YOUR age now... after all the "women chasing" (costly as we all know) & other lunacies in my life were done & over with, finally.

It was HARD to do too, when I saw my pals out OR when they called me to hit the town, & I was on a 'savings kick'...

IMO, when you're younger (18-29 imo), that's the time you SHOULD be enjoying yourself, & others (especially women, because your looks (one of your weapons/assets in THAT area) do start to fade after that... for most guys @ least, w/ out using the "mad chemicals" out there now like ENZYTE (gotta love "Smiling Bob" though, lol) or STEROIDS, & the like available especially today)...

WarEagleAUI understand the business world, and you are to make money. Nothing wrong with that.

Agreed, but the BUSINESS MODEL itself, has changed... how? Read on, because it really DOES 'dovetail' into your next point:

WarEagleAUWhat bothers me is when you worry more about that, and less about employees and their futures. Because, lets face it, without employees, you dont have a business to service your customers.

It's VERY different imo & experience, when you have a SINGLE MAN controlling a company that actually gives a hoot about it!

(Microsoft being my prime example - for all of everyone's bitching about them, they DO make the world's finest & most ubiquitous + versatile stuff there is on MANY levels in this field... their hardware & peripheral support ontop of it is unparalleled & their API's are excellent).

Do they need improvement? Sure, what doesn't??

BUT, my point here is this:

You NOW have 'stockholders' owning companies, & IF you're an investor, you don't give a Flying "F" about anything but a GOOD dividend return 9/10 times, unless you're on the board of directors imo... & own "preferred stock" (the good stuff, not the crap stock that gets earnings paid out last etc. especially during Chapter 11/13 bankruptcy stuff, iirc, they ARE more secured in that area & others).

THE ROOT OF ALL THIS? THE STOCKMARKET - damn thing's evil imo, just legalized gambling & there ARE truly, PLENTY OF CHEATERS IN IT & AROUND IT!

(No need to get into "how" it's been & being cheated, but it is!)

WarEagleAUIm all for 401k and pensions. I was taught young, at my first job at Red Lobster, by the older black folks I worked around (being the only white dude in the kitchen). These people had tons of wisdom and really looked out for me. I love them like family and still keep in touch with them, 10 years later.

I've noted that in my life, & another thing: Folks that aren't 'rich' are generally FAR MORE GIVING & CARING than those who are filthy rich (mostly, they're VERY mercenary, but they often get 'theirs' in other ways... karma etc.).

WarEagleAUtheir work ethic is instilled in me and my habits, when it comes to bills and buying stuff.

You're lucky - you had GOOD guidance & influences around you... not many do imo!

WarEagleAUI just get a little mad when companies start taking away from their hard working employees. Pensions are a nice thing, and they were back in the 70s, 80s and even 90s. But today, the world economy and all this crap, its making it hard to survive on anything. And lets face it, minimum wage should be called, we're trying to at least allow you one convenience in life, wage. This is a piss poor thing. minimum wage should be like $14.00/Hr, because no one in their right mind could survive on 5.35 an hour, yet along this hike to 7.25 they are planning. For minimum wage folks, the cost of keeping up with new technology is alot more than us decent wage makers.

Heh, and folks wonder WHY there are guys that deal drugs, make book, etc. (less than legal ventures by these "entrepreneurs" out there)...

WarEagleAUId love to have my money work for me like it does the financial gurus, but its hard to get it done.

Well, you've gotta START w/ money, in order for THAT to work imo... be it via inheritance, luckiness gambling or whatever, or just scrimping for years (giving away years of your life & fun doing it, if you do it young... the 'trade off' imo).

WarEagleAUAh well...life goes on. But in the end, pensions and 401ks shouldnt be cut, they should be kept.

Yea, but thanks to dorks like the ones @ ENRON? The example's been set, & you can bet, that won't be the LAST scam of that nature...

Social Security, in the 50's-60's was said that it would NEVER run outta cash... but, what have YOU heard about it lately? Stuff like it won't there for us, right??

They're selling the rest of us "indulgences", & keep it alive for those that start the program, but burn it to the ground after that, ripping it off...

ALL while congressmen & senators get LIFETIME FULL PAY PENSIONS!

WTF!

WarEagleAUPS. I will be turning 28, next month (February 3rd) so while Im not super young, Im not old either. I listen to all wisdom passed down, whether anyone else thinks it is or isnt words of advice ::wink Alec:: (thank you for your posts, btw, they are enlightening to read, and I mean than honestly)

Thanks, but I am no expert on life... but, learning as I go!

APK

P.S.=> Don't pay TOO much attention to my mood today, it's not the greatest, above all... apk