NxodusAw, thank you! I'm very smart, I know, thanks for noticing it. Softbank invests in tech startups. So Softbank basically rides the meme train. And their tech-knowledge is apparently so bad, that they decided to sell at the worst possible moment. Hell, even a few months ago they would have done better. Real insiders knew the mining craze was over 12 months ago.

Softbank is one of the largest tech funds on the planet. They invest in large corporations (Nvidia, ARM, Uber) and in smaller ones as well. And they're very capable - don't you worry. :-)

As for the moment they've sold Nvidia: contrary to what you've just said, they've anticipated the drop in share price very well.
The value of their NVDA shares decreased by ¥300bln in 2018, but they've actually lost just ¥50bln. In other words: they sold the share in January, but the decision was made in October.

You have to remember it's a very large move. Decisions like that can't be done instantly. It most likely had to go through the Board and forced some formal changes in their strategy.

ArbitraryAffectionI'm surprised by how many people defend 20 series pricing, it's like they want to pay more for their hobbies?

2080Ti is a halo product and the fastest gaming GPU available. People who want the best will pay for the best. If it makes Nvidia a rich company with great products than so be it.

the54thvoid@notb - Nvidias own quarterly said sales of RTX were not as they had hoped. So, no, they're not selling well.

Maybe they simply had very optimistic plans. We'll never know.
What I can say - in fact I already said it during the pre-order phase - is that RTX will quickly outsell Vega.
And guess what happened? Just look at System Specs of people on this forum.

FYFI13Cool, because 400€ for low-mid tier card as RTX 2060 is a rip off..

Sorry what? Low Tier would be 2030. Mid tier would be 2050. 2060 is mid-high tier. Actually, Nvidia introduced a new tier with the 2060: Mid-high - High tier. The 2060 is at 1070+ levels, which we all know used to be a high tier card. Or are you measuring cards by their RAM size? Because 6Gb is plenty for gaming

Nxodusdespite being extremely profitable.

Yeah but what happened to being just... profitable? It seems that today it's simply not enough to be "profitable", you have to be "obscenely profitable". Who do we have in charge here? The Ferengi?

I think all GPU's are overpriced. I think they should be closer to CPU prices.
I7's for $400 and I9's for $500-ish
2080's should be $400 and 2080 TI should be $500-ish...Titan RTX should be tops at $700-$800.
People are overpaying for these; by far......why? I blame the mining craze. At that point
greed hit everyone....miners, buyers, retailers, chip makers...ect... Nvidia saw what people were willing to pay.
and the only reason their still priced that high is people simply keep forking over the money.

I don't think this will end anytime soon....unless AMD comes out with a GPU that
performs better and undercuts thier price buy $300. I don't see that happening.
AMD will want some pie too.....Maybe Intel will come out with a good mid range GPU and sell it sub $200
just to get a hold and userbase in the market. Wishfull thinking.....lol.....

just my 2 cents

MrGeniusLike I said. Not the mining craze. How the company handled it. The end of the mining craze is not necessarily a reason you should sell your Nvidia stock. The fact the they totally screwed themselves due to it, showing their massive incompetence, is a very good reason to sell your Nvidia stock. Among other things. But in general, they've made themselves look like fools, in many and various ways recently. And people aren't turning a blind eye to it. They're wisely withdrawing their investments.

Your theory of why Softbank sold NVDA is very brave, to be honest.
We don't know the reasons. It may have nothing to do with how they see Nvidia's future.

Maybe they simply wanted to change their portfolio structure? Get out of GPU market? Move money to something else? It doesn't mean NVDA is a bad investment. It means they found a better one.

Or maybe they simply needed cash?
The latest news is that Softbank bought back $5.5bln of their own stock. They had to sell something to get money and NVDA would have provided 2/3 of this sum.
That would actually mean NVDA is seen as an attractive stock (easy to sell quickly). And with that in mind it's easier to understand why NVDA stock went up today.

NxodusSorry what? Low Tier would be 2030. Mid tier would be 2050. 2060 is mid-high tier. Actually, Nvidia introduced a new tier with the 2060: Mid-high - High tier. The 2060 is at 1070+ levels, which we all know used to be a high tier card. Are you measuring cards by their RAM size? Because 6Gb is plenty for gaming

If they named the 2070 gpu a 2080 that doesn't make it a better value... because that is what they did... compared to last 5 gens at least.
2060 is low end, below is bargain bin apu competition.

trparkyYeah but what happened to being just... profitable? It seems that today it's simply not enough to be "profitable", you have to be "obscenely profitable". Who do we have in charge here? The Ferengi?

10/10 I totally agree with you. The world economy is based on eternal growth. Making the same profit as last year is not enough, they want 10% more every year. It's a very greedy and sinister concept. It took me many years to accept it, but I'm finally at peace with it. We are all the slaves of giant corp and there's nothing we ants can do about it. Some of it is logical (inflation etc.) but it's mostly greed. Idealism is something I've been forced to grow out of.

NxodusThe 2060 is at 1070+ levels, which we all know used to be a high tier card.

It's also faster than then 780ti. Does that make it ultra-high-end too? The way you describe tiers is not valid.

NxodusThe world economy is based on eternal growth.

There's no such thing is "eternal growth". Not in computers, not in smart phones, not in anything. There comes a point where a company reaches a point of market saturation and you quite simply cannot grow anymore because there's nowhere to go. I mentioned smart phones because that's one market that has pretty much reached the point of market saturation. Everyone who wants one already has one. Not only that but how much more can you do with a slab of glass? We've reached that same point with graphics card, we've reached a point where it's become nothing more than a gimmick. Raytracing is a gimmick, simply something to make you drool and want to buy a new card regardless of the fact that it brings anything worthwhile to the table.

Just remember; The more Nvidia stock you buy, the more you save!

Bad timing from several fronts, the mentioned investment in crypto-mining that went sour that after the crypto-boom went "Boom" left alot of stock in the pipes ahead of their new release models. Those cards had to drop in price to move them while it causes sales of the newer model to slump below expectations. Folks naturally were buying the older ones still in the pipeline to save and also because as mentioned there wasn't alot of difference in performance between these gen models.

Throw in the recent issues with RTX cards dying suddenly, that didn't help things either.

Right now Nvidia is trying to hold on until something positive happens, with this selloff of stock it's another wound for them to bear.
I doubt it's mortal but damaging?
Why certainly so and speaks of the market's overall confidence in Nvida as things exist now.

They have time to turn things around BUT the current situation is like their fortunes being an hourglass, currently bad as things stand.
If they can't get their fortunes flipped the other way soon, well.... Time's up.

wwii, american government, japan, softbank, saudis oil money, vision fund, khashoggi, failing startups in silicon valley, nvidia doesn't want to move operations from china.

combine all of them and you'll see the big picture.

trparkyThere's no such thing is "eternal growth". Everyone who wants one already has one..

Tell that to Mega Corps, they are the ones chasing it. To them, it's very real. You can't tell shareholders that there's no growth this year folks. It's a catch 22

trparkyEveryone who wants one already has one..

Not entirely true. There are billions of Africans, Asians etc living in villages who never even heard of a touch screen. That's perhaps the reason China is colonizing Africa. To create new markets. They will stuff down their phones in everyones throats whatever it takes. And sheeple in developed countries are in on the game too. They feel bad if their phones or cars are 2 years old so they do everything to get new bling for status points

NxodusYou can't tell shareholders that there's no growth this year folks.

Then they're idiots. Anyone with an ounce of common sense will tell you that you can't grow forever. The whole idea of "growth for the sake of growth" is a disease that's infected this world, it's eventually going to kill the global economy. We very nearly saw that happen back in 2012 with the global recession. Here we are, seven years later in the year 2019, and we didn't learn a damn thing from it. It's going to happen again. We're repeating the same damn mistakes.

If we keep going the way we are we're going to have a global economic depression that will make the Great Depression of the 1920s look like a quaint little tea party. My God, I hope that I'm wrong but everything seems to point to the fact that it's going to happen.

Ain't that old news? The entire NVidia's stock plunge started with Softbank selling off all shares a couple of months ago.

notbYour theory of why Softbank sold NVDA is very brave, to be honest.
We don't know the reasons. It may have nothing to do with how they see Nvidia's future.

notbOr maybe they simply needed cash?
The latest news is that Softbank bought back $5.5bln of their own stock.

Could be conflict of interest on AI and Deep Learning. Softbank is heavily invested in this field (a lot more than NV's stock worth).
Seriously crippling competition in a growing field while not losing a single penny in the process doesn't look like a lucky coincidence.

trparkyThen they're idiots. Anyone with an ounce of common sense will tell you that you can't grow forever. The whole idea of "growth for the sake of growth" is a disease that's infected this world, it's eventually going to kill the global economy. We very nearly saw that happen back in 2012 with the global recession. Here we are, seven years later in the year 2019, and we didn't learn a damn thing from it. It's going to happen again. We're repeating the same damn mistakes.

That's the metality of any exec in a boardroom - Profits CANNOT go down, always up and it's called greed for good reason. It's expected for profits to go up and up and up and up...... And don't you dare breathe a word of that to your shareholders, they're in the market for the same reasons and will panic.
Yeah, it's a catch 22 because we with common sense know that's just impossible, the never-ending growth that is.

trparkyIf we keep going the way we are we're going to have a global economic depression that will make the Great Depression of the 1920s look like a quaint little tea party. My God, I hope that I'm wrong but everything seems to point to the fact that it's going to happen.

It will at some point - Was foretold a very long time ago such will be and as said, all the signs are pointing that way.
Be ready because when that party starts, it's ON.

NxodusSorry what? Low Tier would be 2030. Mid tier would be 2050. 2060 is mid-high tier. Actually, Nvidia introduced a new tier with the 2060: Mid-high - High tier. The 2060 is at 1070+ levels, which we all know used to be a high tier card. Or are you measuring cards by their RAM size? Because 6Gb is plenty for gaming

Titan V - enthuasiast tier
2080Ti - high tier
2080 - mid-high tier
2070 - mid tier
2060 - low- mid tier
2050 - low tier
Anything bellow falls into "junk" category.

silentbogoCould be conflict of interest on AI and Deep Learning. Softbank is heavily invested in this field (a lot more than NV's stock worth).

I don't see the conflict. Care to explain?
But it's clearly worth noting that lately Softbank has in fact focused on AI companies. At the same time they were a major shareholder of the leading AI hardware provider. But that would be just a question of risk (diversification), not conflict of interest.

Seriously crippling competition in a growing field while not losing a single penny in the process doesn't look like a lucky coincidence.

This part I don't understand a bit. :-)

NxodusAw, thank you! I'm very smart, I know, thanks for noticing it.

And you don't realize that investing basically is following the memetrain and cashing out at the right time? Because that's how it works.

Nxodussure sweetie, it's all about Nvidia and not the mining craze.

Mining craze has nothing to do with this as it hurt AMD and NVIDIA equally (maybe even AMD more). It's more generic economic downturn.

notbI don't see the conflict. Care to explain?

Softbank is invested in other AI companies. You can't have your eggs in more than one company's basket I'm guessing, is the idea.

notbWhy would they lower the price? It sells well on current level. They most likely have enormous margins on this.

You're trying hard to sound smart in a tech investing topic, but you don't know who Softbank is... :)

We don't know why they sold it. It could be as simple as change in portfolio profile or structure. Sometimes investment funds have to sell a stock even when they think keeping it would be profitable (and sometimes they have to buy something despite expecting a loss).

The important thing here is that they held NVDA for a long time and earned a lot. :)

i guess the important bit is subjective then because despite agreeing upto the last line you went there, to the exact opposite of the truth , the news and the thread.

The most important part IS that investors just took their whole investment out of nvidia despite its drop from its high, confidence is shaken , that could spook further investors, that's the news bit .

what they earned?,,, many could'nt care less about , its what they don't appear to believe they will earn(via Nvidia) that's noted.

as is Nvidias future regarding providing AI tech to big business, they're making their own instead, go figure , consumers aren't the only ones aware of nvidia's pricing.

I'm shocked. /s

R-T-BMining craze has nothing to do with this as it hurt AMD and NVIDIA equally (maybe even AMD more). It's more generic economic downturn.

But remember, AMD had Ryzen to fall back on to help bolster their margins; nVidia didn't have that. If AMD didn't have Ryzen to help AMD would probably more than likely be dead today. So yay for Ryzen.

This is a weird move indeed. It's like they shorted the stock, but they didn't sell at the first sign of depreciation, so it must be something else. And they weren't in it for the long run either, otherwise a dip wouldn't have prompted them to sell. Maybe someone more knowledgeable could offer their thoughts on this.

notbI don't see the conflict. Care to explain?

www.reuters.com/article/us-softbank-visionfund-launch/softbank-saudi-tech-fund-becomes-worlds-biggest-with-93-billion-of-capital-idUSKCN18G0NP
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-20/softbank-fund-is-said-to-seek-investment-in-chinese-ai-giant
...and they own ARM holdings (read "Inference applications", and "Application-specific accelerators").
Just in self-driving and AI-assisted cars alone NV has a huge lead over everyone else (including their former biggest shareholder Softbank or any of its subsidiaries), and their latest contract with BOSCH might as well make it a monopoly.

juisemanI think all GPU's are overpriced. I think they should be closer to CPU prices.
I7's for $400 and I9's for $500-ish
2080's should be $400 and 2080 TI should be $500-ish...Titan RTX should be tops at $700-$800.
People are overpaying for these; by far......why? I blame the mining craze. At that point
greed hit everyone....miners, buyers, retailers, chip makers...ect... Nvidia saw what people were willing to pay.
and the only reason their still priced that high is people simply keep forking over the money.

I don't think this will end anytime soon....unless AMD comes out with a GPU that
performs better and undercuts thier price buy $300. I don't see that happening.
AMD will want some pie too.....Maybe Intel will come out with a good mid range GPU and sell it sub $200
just to get a hold and userbase in the market. Wishfull thinking.....lol.....

just my 2 cents

CPUs are only CPUs, nothing more.
You have to pay extra money for memory and motherboard to feed a CPU's needs, where as for a graphics card you literally get an all in one product. (Memory, VRM, Heat sink, fan, GPU itself etc.)
You're not comparing apples to apples here.

trparkyBut remember, AMD had Ryzen to fall back on to help bolster their margins; nVidia didn't have that. If AMD didn't have Ryzen to help AMD would probably more than likely be dead today. So yay for Ryzen.

AMD is also a much much smaller company.