RH92To be fair this is not totally true . Corsair ML120s and BeQuiet SW3s perform almost identical to NF-A12x25 ( wich is by far Noctuas best fan and one of the best 120mm fans we have ever seen ) when it comes to noise normalised ! Also when it comes to audio profile ( wich most of the time falls under bearing noise , although the shape of the blades plays aswell ) Maglevs have an advantage over any other type of bearing . NF-A12x25 really shines as a watercooling radiator fan at speeds above 1500rpm where it manages to be quieter by 2-3db ( or even more ) than the ML120 and SW3 but yeah that's a niche segment and certainly doesn't justify the huge price difference objectively speaking ! Don't get me wrong Noctua produces excellent products but sometimes peoples tend to exaggerate their effectiveness ( coming from a Noctua owner ) .

There's no huge price difference between NF-A12x25s and Corsair Maglevs. If you look at the RGB corsair, they're the same price here in Norway, and the non-RGB is barely cheaper (200 NOK vs. 270). You're right that they perform close, but as you say the Corsairs lose out in maximum cooling capability while still being slightly noisier (in TPU's testing it matched the airflow of the ML120 at 3dBA lower SPL at both 1250 and 1500rpm).

GreiverBladewell ... the new u12A ... is ... on par with that one (even slightly noisier :p )




indeed the 40$ premium over it make it worth it, i do agree ... (well that's a 120 versus a 140 although i would take a TR Macho 120 SBM over the u12A any time ... )

the only 2 sensible pros in favor of Noctua would be 1. warranty 2. customer service, although, that would be ... if i ever need any of those 2 ... i can recall one time with Thermalright and even out of warranty they replaced the piece and even gave me an extra set at the time (2 TY-147 and fixation + holding bracket) ... so, i am not 100% sure

You're conflating fans and coolers. I was talking purely about Noctua fans (as the discussion above that brought them up was about fans, not coolers), while you're comparing coolers of radically different designs that also have different fans. That a dual tower cooler is better than a single tower cooler with less total surface area should come as a surprise to approximately nobody at all.

ValantarThere's no huge price difference between NF-A12x25s and Corsair Maglevs. If you look at the RGB corsair, they're the same price here in Norway, and the non-RGB is barely cheaper (200 NOK vs. 270).

That's a shame here in France the ML120 dual pack is priced at 26 euro while a single NF-A12x25 is priced at 28 euro on Amazon , same story on Newegg so basicaly you can get 2 ML120s for the price of one NF-A12x25 hence why i talked about huge price difference .

Axaionthis with 2x nf-a25 fans would be pretty damn good for the space used

but how good compared to the u12A?

Recognize that if you take the Noctua fans off a Noctua cooler and replace them with Phanteks at the same rpm, the CPU temps by 6C

www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenteks_f140/3.htm

hatI think you read my comment wrong. I was simply calling your attention to the thread because I know you like the Fuma, so I thought you'd be interested in the Fuma 2. :)

My apologies sir .... in the age of alternative facts, we too often see folks who have somehow developed a vested interest in branding. Whether it be politics or tech, real data doesn't matter, only the brand.

And yes, I am interested .... tho the 33% price increase seems a bit steep.

ValantarYou're conflating fans and coolers. I was talking purely about Noctua fans (as the discussion above that brought them up was about fans, not coolers), while you're comparing coolers of radically different designs that also have different fans. That a dual tower cooler is better than a single tower cooler with less total surface area should come as a surprise to approximately no one at all.

initially i was never talking about fan alone and the part you quoted was about the whole heatsink fan setup :p ... aside the fact that someone mentioned using noctua's fan on a Scythe cooler whereas the Scythe fans were already up to the task and silent enough (or more ... ) as for my dislike of Noctua is as a whole ... after that ... well the fact that the u12A is a single tower priced 40$ higher than the Fuma 2... is laughable at best, as for single tower ... i mentioned the TR Macho 120 SBM as better alternative, it's on par with a NH-D15S with only 1 120mm that top up at 1300rpm (meaning virtually silent 24/38 dB) and 5 heatpipes and they even box a neat long screwdriver with it for a meager 48$.

John NaylorRecognize that if you take the Noctua fans off a Noctua cooler and replace them with Phanteks at the same rpm, the CPU temps by 6C

www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenteks_f140/3.htm

oh ... so other brand fans are actually better... well that would rule out the heresy of putting Noctua fans on that Fuma 2 then :laugh:


oh, well Noctua aren't bad ... they just aren't correctly priced either

GreiverBladeinitially i was never talking about fan alone and the part you quoted was about the whole heatsink fan setup :p ... aside the fact that someone mentioned using noctua's fan on a Scythe cooler whereas the Scythe fans were already up to the task and silent enough (or more ... ) as for my dislike of Noctua is as a whole ... after that ... well the fact that the u12A is a single tower priced 40$ higher than the Fuma 2... is laughable at best, as for single tower ... i mentioned the TR Macho 120 SBM as better alternative, it's on par with a NH-D15S with only 1 120mm that top up at 1300rpm (meaning virtually silent 24/38 dB) and 5 heatpipes and they even box a neat long screwdriver with it for a meager 48$.

Well, the Macho is significantly wider than the NH-U12A, so that's not much of a surprise. It does a good job in the height department, though, and delivers impressive performance with a smart high-airflow design (fewer, widely spaced fins and an airflow optimized fan) - the issue with designs like that is that they usually top out at relatively low wattages. Perfectly sufficient for a normal desktop CPU, but not necessarily overclocking high-end chips. (I looked, but sadly can't find any reviews testing it on anything more recent and power hungry than Haswell.) Still, it's a great cooler, and for that price it's fantastic. Don't see anyone denying that. That doesn't take away from Noctua's engineering, though, and for denser, more resistant fin stacks, the NF-A12x25 is far superior. There's of course an argument to be made that a fin stack design like Thermalright's is smarter - and in some cases it certainly is, as lower resistance does make for easier and quieter airflow - but no solution is perfect for all use cases. This obviously also includes the NH-U12A. I've never said it's a perfect heatsink for all use cases (heck, I've never argued that it's a great heatsink at all, though it is), and it is expensive (Noctua generally is), but for its use case and if you can afford it, I'd say it's worth it.

GreiverBladeoh ... so other brand fans are actually better... well that would rule out the heresy of putting Noctua fans on that Fuma 2 then :laugh:

oh, well Noctua aren't bad ... they just aren't correctly priced either

I'd like to see some noise readings from that fan swap. As I said, there's definitely more powerful fans out there, even at the same speeds. But very, very few that match (or even come close to) Noctua for noise normalized performance. Of course, it's also worth noting that their 140/150mm fans are older than the NF-A12x25, based on an older design and with older materials, which the industry spent the last 5+ years catching up to, just to be upstaged by the new Sterrox fans. I'm looking forward to the updated 140mm Noctua series, though I don't imagine I'll like the pricing.

ValantarWell, the Macho is significantly wider than the NH-U12A, so that's not much of a surprise.

just in case ... i was not comparing a 120 variant Macho performances with a u12A ... but with a NH-D15S ... (and it's a 120 versus a 150 ... kinda reversed initial comparison between Fuma 2 and u12A ) but it's also a good match to be a better alternative to the u12A is indeed what i implied ... half the price double the value. (quadruple in that case )

Valantarit is expensive (Noctua generally is), but for its use case and if you can afford it, I'd say it's worth it.

i end it with that .... even if you can afford it... it is not worth it ... if the concurrent do same for less, why not get the cheaper one and get some more stuff you need (or more beer) instead of putting 100$ in a overpriced HSF that use a gimmicky "Liquid Crystal Polymer" ( :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ) as main argument for the "premium tag"... unless being a hardcore fan of the brand.

Noctua is overpriced and that's their only huge cons (and superior is not one of their pros, they aren't... anymore), on that note, i am off.

actually ... i rather want the old Gentle Typhoon back ... Scythe was doing them better ... (price wise, color wise but not only ... even in standard polycarbonat/plastic than ... :laugh: Sterrox :laugh: )

GreiverBladejust in case ... i was not comparing a 120 variant Macho performances with a u12A ... but with a NH-D15S ... (and it's a 120 versus a 150 ... kinda reversed initial comparison between Fuma 2 and u12A ) but it's also a good match to be a better alternative to the u12A is indeed what i implied ... half the price double the value. (quadruple in that case )


i end it with that .... even if you can afford it... it is not worth it ... if the concurrent do same for less, why not get the cheaper one and get some more stuff you need (or more beer) instead of putting 100$ in a overpriced HSF that use a gimmicky "Liquid Crystal Polymer" ( :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ) as main argument for the "premium tag"... unless being a hardcore fan of the brand.

Noctua is overpriced and that's their only huge cons (and superior is not one of their pros, they aren't... anymore), on that note, i am off.

actually ... i rather want the old Gentle Typhoon back ... Scythe was doing them better ... (price wise, color wise but not only ... even in standard polycarbonat/plastic than ... :laugh: Sterrox :laugh: )

Your memories of the GT might be a bit rose-tinted, as the double ball bearing is rather grindy (as are all double ball bearing fans). I'm very happy with mine (I have an 1850rpm GT on the rear 120mm rad in my loop, bought new a couple of years back, Nidec-branded, which is who always made them for Scythe). It's by no means noisy, and performance is very good, but the bearing noise is very noticeable even above pump noise. The BeQiet Silent Wings 3s i have on my front 240mm radiator are much, much quieter while approaching the same performance. All of these were btw bought before the NF-A12x25 launched, otherwise I would likely have gone for it instead - this was the time when most good competitors had caught up to Noctua, after all. The Noctuas are more expensive than both of these, but not by a lot.

As for not comparing with the U12A, I'd suggest you reread your own post:

GreiverBladewell ... the new u12A ... is ... on par with that one (even slightly noisier :p )




indeed the 40$ premium over it make it worth it, i do agree ... (well that's a 120 versus a 140 although i would take a TR Macho 120 SBM over the u12A any time ... )

the only 2 sensible pros in favor of Noctua would be 1. warranty 2. customer service, although, that would be ... if i ever need any of those 2 ... i can recall one time with Thermalright and even out of warranty they replaced the piece and even gave me an extra set at the time (2 TY-147 and fixation + holding bracket) ... so, i am not 100% sure

And I agree that heavily marketing the material of a fan's blades is a bit gimmicky, but it did allow them to produce a fan with heretofore unseen blade tolerances. Also, "liquid crystal polymer" is the actual name of what it is. Nothing gimmicky about that. It's also very likely more expensive than normal plastics (not to mention the R&D cost of finding the right one). As for the GT being better: Nope. Marginally better airflow at low rpm, but noisier to match, and at high rpm it falls off the wagon completely. Remember, the "new" DarkSide GTs are made by Nidec just like the old Scythe ones, to the exact same specification, except color and rpm (depending on the variant). It doesn't matter at all whether your GT is branded Scythe, Nidec or DarkSide - they're the same fan save for the inherent variance of any industrially produced product. It may be that DarkSide has a higher tolerance for variance than Scythe had, but that would still only affect the few percent of worst performers coming off the line.

But can we please get back to the topic now? Noctua makes good, expensive fans. Whether the cost is warranted is open for debate. Whether they'll make the Fuma 2 perform better than stock? Who knows unless someone is willing to test. There, that's done.

"although i would take a TR Macho 120 SBM over the u12A any time "
and for :

ValantarBut can we please get back to the topic now? Noctua makes good, expensive fans. Whether the cost is warranted is open for debate. Whether they'll make the Fuma 2 perform better than stock? Who knows unless someone is willing to test. There, that's done.

well the Fuma perform already on par or slightly better with his stock fan ... sooooo why anyone would test that ... (but the opposite is true ... testing other fans on a Noctua heatsink yield good result )

as i said previously, i'm off, have a nice day ...

GreiverBladewhy would you mess up the price and swap 2 perfectly capable fans bundled with the Heatsink for 2 fans from an overpriced brand ...

Probably because those fans are better than .. any other 120mm fan when it comes to perf/noise?, and the heatsink might be nutty with them.

GreiverBladeyou can bet it can be only good ... at 40$ less :laugh: even +5° non OC and -5° OC differences would make the Scythe a better deal (although can't take number from 2 reviews ... after all the -5° difference on OC was on a 4.8 8700K for the u12A and the Fuma 2 had a 9900K at 5.0 to cool down instead, same for the +5° ... 8700K 9900K ... who's the hotest :ohwell: )

Same as above.

John NaylorRecognize that if you take the Noctua fans off a Noctua cooler and replace them with Phanteks at the same rpm, the CPU temps by 6C

Phanteks PH-F140 (XP, SP, SP_LED) Case Fan Review » Page 3 - Phanteks PH-F140(XP, SP, SP_LED) Fans: Testing

I did say nf-a25, but yeah, i did mean the NF-A12x25, the new ones, that looks like GTs, and theyre 120mm fans too.

AxaionProbably because those fans are better than .. any other 120mm fan when it comes to perf/noise?, and the heatsink might be nutty with them

sure sure ... given the actual data from reviews ... the Fuma 2 seems quieter than a u12A and a touch cooler ... sure enough it would definitely do better with those overpriced NF-A12x25 Sterrox(r) fans

AxaionSame as above.

same as above too ...

and the statement about them being better than any other in perf/noise ratio is ... well ... an overstatement, ah... whatever

now if they tone down their price and change their color scheme ... (price first ... the ugly side can be passed over)

and off for good, have a nice day.

GreiverBladeand the statement about them being better than any other in perf/noise ratio is ... well ... an overstatement, ah... whatever

I would love it if you would please tell us which 120mm standard size fan has better noise/performance than those fans.

GreiverBladeoh ... so other brand fans are actually better... well that would rule out the heresy of putting Noctua fans on that Fuma 2 then :laugh:

I call this puppy syndrome. Bring a doberman puppy intom a house with a tuny yip yap dog and the yup yap will be the boss .... when that puppy is 90 pounds, the yiup ya[ will still be the boss. People have a tendency to rely on the 1st sources they are exposed to ... sometimes even longer than when they cease being relevant.

When we join the on line world and start visiting forums to get component advice .. we read posts and are impressed with user knowledge. In the 90s, in water cooling, it was all about extreme rpm high SP fans to push air thru 30 fpi rads of the day. Today, with 8 - 14 fpi, we still see folks talking about hi SP fans.

People also fixate on brands rather than models. Folks still making decisions and making posts regardomg HD reliability based upon HD data from Backblaze which installs drives contrary to manufacturers recommendations. It's the very features that make a drive a great consumer drive are exactly whatmakes it fail in a server environment.

I always get comments users when approaching a build tht they want more cores and when i ask why ... "well I read on the internet ..." is th aguaranteed answer. So I send them home and ask them to run whatever program with all their cores and then start turning them off 1 by 1. The desire for more cores goes bye bye, especially when you show them TPUs test results.

So yes .... was a day when folks read a post on the internet that said "Noctua makes the best fans" and it was correct. But just like any sports franchise, whomever was best in one year is not likely to stay there over time. Change happens. But folks don't like uncertainty. Most of us are born into a certain religion .... most die w/o considering anything else ... convinced that they are right w/o any rational basis to do so. Brand loyalty is like that. I consider myself a "hardware whore" ... whomever gets the best numbers, I'm leaving with them.

So the best advice is educate yourself... Noctua was the king ... The Gentle Typhoons knocked them off the throne at least in the WC arena for a while. Now the 'title" is held by the Phanteks and, from what I have seen, the Silent Wings 3 might be as good or better. But again, each fan can only be considered in relation to it's task. We have a very unique fan setup here and applicability of other fans to this usage may not fit well.

www.silentpcreview.com/article1345-page7.html



Several new designs have come out since then .... As I said, the Silent Wings 3 look like that they will compete very well with the Phanteks but not seen them in the same test as yet. Also both Phanteks and Noctua have new designs that I havent seen tested with more rigid blades and smaller tip clearance. These should perform better , just haven't seen them both tested yet. BTW, Phanteks PH-F140 fans have carious suffixes each referring to the frame dimensions ... the same fan design is used with fram designed to fit various mountings 140nn fan on 140mm heat sin k/ 140mm fan on 120mm heat sink / 140mm fan on 140mm case mounting, etc.

John NaylorI call this puppy syndrome. Bring a doberman puppy intom a house with a tuny yip yap dog and the yup yap will be the boss .... when that puppy is 90 pounds, the yiup ya[ will still be the boss. People have a tendency to rely on the 1st sources they are exposed to ... sometimes even longer than when they cease being relevant.

When we join the on line world and start visiting forums to get component advice .. we read posts and are impressed with user knowledge. In the 90s, in water cooling, it was all about extreme rpm high SP fans to push air thru 30 fpi rads of the day. Today, with 8 - 14 fpi, we still see folks talking about hi SP fans.

People also fixate on brands rather than models. Folks still making decisions and making posts regardomg HD reliability based upon HD data from Backblaze which installs drives contrary to manufacturers recommendations. It's the very features that make a drive a great consumer drive are exactly whatmakes it fail in a server environment.

I always get comments users when approaching a build tht they want more cores and when i ask why ... "well I read on the internet ..." is th aguaranteed answer. So I send them home and ask them to run whatever program with all their cores and then start turning them off 1 by 1. The desire for more cores goes bye bye, especially when you show them TPUs test results.

So yes .... was a day when folks read a post on the internet that said "Noctua makes the best fans" and it was correct. But just like any sports franchise, whomever was best in one year is not likely to stay there over time. Change happens. But folks don't like uncertainty. Most of us are born into a certain religion .... most die w/o considering anything else ... convinced that they are right w/o any rational basis to do so. Brand loyalty is like that. I consider myself a "hardware whore" ... whomever gets the best numbers, I'm leaving with them.

So the best advice is educate yourself... Noctua was the king ... The Gentle Typhoons knocked them off the throne at least in the WC arena for a while. Now the 'title" is held by the Phanteks and, from what I have seen, the Silent Wings 3 might be as good or better. But again, each fan can only be considered in relation to it's task. We have a very unique fan setup here and applicability of other fans to this usage may not fit well.

www.silentpcreview.com/article1345-page7.html



Several new designs have come out since then .... As I said, the Silent Wings 3 look like that they will compete very well with the Phanteks but not seen them in the same test as yet. Also both Phanteks and Noctua have new designs that I havent seen tested with more rigid blades and smaller tip clearance. These should perform better , just haven't seen them both tested yet. BTW, Phanteks PH-F140 fans have carious suffixes each referring to the frame dimensions ... the same fan design is used with fram designed to fit various mountings 140nn fan on 140mm heat sin k/ 140mm fan on 120mm heat sink / 140mm fan on 140mm case mounting, etc.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I've been pretty explicit in this thread about how Noctua's older designs have been caught up with or surpassed by several competitors in later years. Still, it would be very interesting to see the NF-A12x25 added to that list. Noctua themselves say it performs on par with or better than the NF-A14 for both noise and thermals, which would soundly beat every other 120mm on that list, at least.

How does this perform against the NHD15? anyone?... i bought the fuma 2 and i currently have the nhd15 so i will be doing testing also but wanted to know if anyone else compared the 2.

Gabe324How does this perform against the NHD15? anyone?... i bought the fuma 2 and i currently have the nhd15 so i will be doing testing also but wanted to know if anyone else compared the 2.

I received it today and it beats the NHD15 by around 2-3Cish.

Gabe324I received it today and it beats the NHD15 by around 2-3Cish.

hello,so you are saying that this cooler outperforms the NHD15?
what about noise?
i am so tempted about this one,and i would love to know what u have experienced with it,
and if it's worth it.
thank you :)