Tuesday, September 24th 2019
AMD Could Release Next Generation EPYC CPUs with Four-Way SMT
AMD has completed design phase of its "Zen 3" architecture and rumors are already appearing about its details. This time, Hardwareluxx has reported that AMD could bake a four-way simultaneous multithreading technology in its Zen 3 core to enable more performance and boost parallel processing power of its data center CPUs. Expected to arrive sometime in 2020, Zen 3 server CPUs, codenamed "MILAN", are expected to bring many architectural improvements and make use of TSMC's 7nm+ Extreme Ultra Violet lithography that brings as much as 20% increase in transistor density.
Perhaps the biggest change we could see is the addition of four-way SMT that should allow a CPU to have four virtual threads per core that will improve parallel processing power and enable data center users to run more virtual machines than ever before. Four-way SMT will theoretically boost performance by dividing micro-ops into four smaller groups so that each thread could execute part of the operation, thus making the execution time much shorter. This being only one application of four-way SMT, we can expect AMD to leverage this feature in a way that is most practical and brings the best performance possible.
AMD isn't the first to implement this kind of solution to its processors. IBM has been making CPUs based on POWER ISA for years now that feature four or even eight-way SMT and they are one of the key reasons why POWER CPUs are so powerful. Nonetheless, we can hope to see more details about Zen 3 core design decisions as we approach 2020 and launch of Milan CPUs.
Source:
Hardwareluxx
Perhaps the biggest change we could see is the addition of four-way SMT that should allow a CPU to have four virtual threads per core that will improve parallel processing power and enable data center users to run more virtual machines than ever before. Four-way SMT will theoretically boost performance by dividing micro-ops into four smaller groups so that each thread could execute part of the operation, thus making the execution time much shorter. This being only one application of four-way SMT, we can expect AMD to leverage this feature in a way that is most practical and brings the best performance possible.
159 Comments on AMD Could Release Next Generation EPYC CPUs with Four-Way SMT
will likely never be introduced to gaming pc.
there's a way to fit 4 8 core cxx's onto a die.why go with 4 way smt ? that's only beneficial when you're maxing out cores on the die.
is my point.
how long before 128t is not enough ?
On the other hand I have to say that your post had huge success. So many quotes. If it is an attempt on trolling, I have to give it an A+++
If its anything like IBM PowerPC it will scale to whatever is needed and provided the workload is suitable. I'm not seeing the issue. ZEN has been a server CPU tech first and everything else second anyway, nothing new here.
The opposite applies I think. Better SMT will benefit the efficiency and thus market share of AMD CPUs and will lead to more improvements to them in the long run as well. There is only win-win here. Nobody with two brain cells ever made a 'gaming CPU'. No not even Intel; its a mere byproduct. Bump the clocks and poof gaming cpu.
Core 1 waiting on fetch has 30 cycles of wait time, thread 2 assigned is waiting on data from another thread to provide stored results to finish, so why not do work out of the cache while waiting as long as the latency doesn't exceed the 30 cycle wait time its an increase of IPC. The logic behind it all is impressive in hardware, I just wonder if its going to add more latency for the management or if they are going to run the management system at higher frequency to mask it.
And if you had you might get why i mentioned it.
He believes AMD will bring zen 3 to servers next year but not necessarily to desktop.
Desktop would get the free top bins of zen 2 allowing higher clocks for a refresher while zen 3 on EUV wouldn't likely yeild great and would end up expensive ,per chip, making using it just for server seam like The logical path plus they're push to the server room should really start then, once all the trial's have run their course.
He also thinks consumers might not get smt4 anyway, but AMD don't usually segregate sku's like that so it's not likely IMHO.
www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-3900x-smt-off-vs-intel-9900k/5.html
As core counts is already more than enough for gaming, Why AMD isnt making something similar to what is being done in some mobile phones? Half of cores with high clocks and others with low clocks for other apps/general use and no SMT at al? Is it that hard really?
I mean sure if a hypothetical new quad (or dual, whatever) SMT design meant like a 25% drop in frames in game X it would be bad, but given their current status I really, really, REALLY don't think AMD would implement that in consumer/gamer CPUs. Yes their entire design currently is based on chiplets, but if they take over enough of the enterprise market it might make fiscal sense to create this monster for that specific purpose. That is where the money is after all.Given how AMD makes CPUs, yes. Well not hard, but impractical with their current strategy. Also remember phones have vastly different requirements than PCs when it comes to mostly power and th related heat.
I'm also assuming that you made that incorrect judgment WITHOUT watching much of his content because if you had watched more, you'd know that his personal system is an Intel system. Also, he's a true enthusiast, and the majority of True enthusiasts (not fanboys, fanboys are not enthusiasts) DO NOT, for example, respect Nvidia for the crap they pull and the harm they do to the community as a whole (e.g. Jacking up prices for no other reason than achieving a 100% profit margin and because fanboys will never check their power by withholding their money from their products) and the majority of enthusiasts know that Ray tracing is not polished enough to warrant buying an RTX card and its price premium... however, knowing and expressing such an opinion is not, by default, a form of bias toward and in favor of AMD, and anyone suggesting that being critical of one company automatically makes you biased toward their competition is logically fallacious and is creating a false binary that does not exist. I offer those as examples.
I really tired of those in this community that try and force their false binary reasoning on others. It's just like conservatives who automatically declare that you're a liberal or a Democrat for criticizing Trump, as if in the vast plethora of opinions and philosophies in our reality, an individual is only limited to two in some sort of perverted, "if, then, else" distorted logic and that any criticism of one automatically and by default makes you the other.There seems to be this shortcut to thinking that so many "gamers" [that claim to be enthusiasts] constantly perform, namely the completely unfounded assumption and belief that "gaming" comprises the majority of use cases for x86 CPUs and that "gaming", and pleasing gamers, is the paramount concern, or should be, of AMD/Intel when that's not the case.
Gaming does NOT comprise the bulk of the T.A.M. and revenue for the x86 industry, enterprise does. An x86 manufacturer would be committing suicide by choosing to make gaming their number one priority, and yet so many gamers think that it should be, and furthermore, so many "gamers" have this ridiculous mentality that the measure of quality and validity in an x86 CPU is assessed solely by the FPS it can achieve...does anybody else know what I'm talking about or has observed this? It basically occurs everyday on WCCFTech, I witnessed so many fools basically making the argument that a 5 fps inferiority for ryzen 3000 when compared to Intel makes it a failure. Are these people serious or are they so clouded by the psychological idiocy of in group/out group mentality and social identity theory (the two major phenomenon behind fanboy behavior) that they're completely blind to reason?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon_Phi#Knights_Ferry
Larrabee before that:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larrabee_(microarchitecture)
Based on ancient P54 (Pentium non-MMX uarch) even. >2-way SMT is rather trivial to implement, and nothing new. The real challenge will be extracting greater multi-thread performance. That and not falling victim to Windows scheduler inefficiencies.
Low power ARM cores are RISC and since its a "walled garden" they can optimize code for the hardware. They suck at general performance computing but excel at what they are designed for specifically."An empirical performance and programmability study has been performed by researchers,[101] in which the authors claim that achieving high performance with Xeon Phi still needs help from programmers and that merely relying on compilers with traditional programming models is still far from reality. "
Anything not scientific community, standard server related? No doubt 4 way SMT works better on highly out of order processing loads, if we could make everything in order we would only need a 4 core CPU with no SMT. Practical implementation for use is the foundation of any of this, and Intel hasn't succeeded at that with any Phi products, just like they don't have a graphics card yet, just artist renderings....
If you can run an O.S. on it, it's a general purpose microprocessor, and I think that qualifies it for this discussion.