i agree with this, m$ can go f^ck themselfs, pay, or we use some linux :D

In no way am I a huge Microsoft Supporter....however, you cant force a company to do something they dont do ANYWHERE else. Id pull out if I were MS.

The problem is that Microsoft can't pull out. That is a huge chunk of business to lose, and on top of that they don't want there to be any examples of large nations switching over to other competing OSes and not only saving money, but functioning just as well.

newtekie1The problem is that Microsoft can't pull out. That is a huge chunk of business to lose, and on top of that they don't want there to be any examples of large nations switching over to other competing OSes and not only saving money, but functioning just as well.

But the question is, would MS lose the equivalent of $4m a day by pulling out of the market? I find it hard to believe that they would. I'm obviously no expert on this, however. lol

4 m usd/per day ? only ??

Obviously the EU threats are so redicilous, that for MS it seems to be appropriate to put up a fake documentation about their OS, while theres no competion at all ? While the Commission is now taking their time, usually some years, they keep selling and laughing at them. It´s hard to tell if they are bribed or just that stupid.

There is nothing fake in the document Microsoft submitted.

This requirement is in response to past Microsoft Operating system anti-trust lawsuites involved in MS forcing its OS users to use their partners software etc., by intigrating into the OS ( I don't remember the exact details, but I remember that last lawsuite required all future OS's from MS to include the detailed document or no sale in EU).

The EU is 'meant' to have our best intrestes at heart, however i wonder who gets the money *points towards MEP wallet*

Namslas90This requirement is in response to past Microsoft Operating system anti-trust lawsuites involved in MS forcing its OS users to use their partners software etc.

Which I still say was BS from the beginning.

THIS IS NUTS IN SOME CAPACITIES, imo!

zekrahminatorA while ago, the European Union said that to avoid gigantic lawsuits

Amazing: This would be the ONE single problem I think that being wealthy or successful would be: Everyone's after YOUR ca$h... lol!

zekrahminatorfor making Windows Vista available, Microsoft would have to post the inner workings of it's operating system for the public.

LOL, for one thing, were I Microsoft? I'd politely tell them to "go to hell", not exactly in THOSE words, but I would, more-or-less...

I mean, it is proprietary info. & a 'trade-secret' more-or-less, AND does work in favor of security in that when you expose source-code, you also expose it to hacker/cracker types that can find holes in it, & publish them to the web (and, NOT in a good 'white-hat' way, showing what's wrong, & HOW TO FIX IT, but rather exploit it), OR not @ all, which means it is TOTALLY abuseable & who knows to what extent, by said unscrupulous individual(s).

That latter part? THE TRUE DANGER imo!

zekrahminatorMicrosoft claims that they did it, and hosts a 1,500 page document on their website.

I know they have given partners & various educational institutions PARTS of the sourcecode to Windows NT & iirc, 2000 as well over time.

I don't blame them in some ways - because I also would want to know WHO had my source, & who they may have in turn, leaked it to by the same token... to have somebody LIABLE, in case "the cat gets outta the bag" type of stuff!

zekrahminatorUnfortunately, the European Union doesn't think that it's enough.

To quote Rene Russo AND her tone from the film "The Thomas Crown Affair"?

"OH, lol... of course"

Sounds like a cheap excuse to try to snag some more cash outta MS, via extortion... but, they do have options they can choose (good luck) such as various Linux &/or UNIX distros... why not just do away w/ Microsoft software altogether then via that route??

Because they can't, because they're tied into it, until they find better alternatives... & apparently, they are NOT finding them, on all levels.

zekrahminatorAnd so, they are giving Microsoft two choices. The first choice for Microsoft is to detail their documents a bit more thoroughly. Their second choice is to accept the $4 million USD a day fine.

Source: The Inquirer

If I were MS, I would pretty much reply in kind, as I did... lol!

:)

APK

What the EU is doing is the right way M$ is trying to monopolize it all.

They need to stop acting like they own the whole world like the americans do..

Eu need laws like that, vista brakes meny Eu laws as it is M$ just need to do what they say or get the fuck out of EU

this may sound terrible but is it being run by anything british because if it is by the time all the beauracratic BS and red tape has been through the big ol' M$ will hae released a VISTA replacement

Lets sum this up; the EU has put this forward, as unlike the united states, it believes in FAIR TRADE, which means having at least one serious competitor to keep prices down for the consumer \ business. Now, as I tend to recall, the US wasn't even willing to help all the people out in the 3rd world with the FAIR TRADE agreement, which every other major country signed (as far as I'm aware) :rolleyes:

Thats pretty much; Game. Set. Match Point.

KetxxxLets sum this up; the EU has put this forward, as unlike the united states, it believes in FAIR TRADE, which means having at least one serious competitor to keep prices down for the consumer \ business. Now, as I tend to recall, the US wasn't even willing to help all the people out in the 3rd world with the FAIR TRADE agreement, which every other major country signed (as far as I'm aware) :rolleyes:

Thats pretty much; Game. Set. Match Point.

This is actually un-fair trade as MS can possibly lose millions of dollars out of this (not just because of the fine either). I can't be sure of how much it cost MS to develop Vista, but I can be pretty damn sure that they spent millions.

This is like telling ATI or nVidia to post up EVERYTHING about ALL of their cards (including spec sheets, how it was manufactured, etc.) after they had spent bundles of cash developing it. I'm not trying to defend MS's crappy new OS, but merely just trying to get you to understand why the EU's demands are unreasonable. I mean, MS has already posted 1500 pages of things related to Vista and the EU wants more? Give an inch, and they want a mile....

edit: I actually kind of feel sorry for MS... every day they probably have like 10 lawsuits on their doorsteps against various things :|
But then again... those are some pretty lucky lawyers since they know for sure that there will always be work for them to do :D

anticlutchThis is actually un-fair trade as MS can possibly lose millions of dollars out of this (not just because of the fine either). I can't be sure of how much it cost MS to develop Vista, but I can be pretty damn sure that they spent millions.

This is like telling ATI or nVidia to post up EVERYTHING about ALL of their cards (including spec sheets, how it was manufactured, etc.) after they had spent bundles of cash developing it. I'm not trying to defend MS's crappy new OS, but merely just trying to get you to understand why the EU's demands are unreasonable. I mean, MS has already posted 1500 pages of things related to Vista and the EU wants more? Give an inch, and they want a mile....

Agreed, 110%, & on ALL counts noted by yourself!

(AND, usually I do NOT side w/ the corporate view, & instead, side w/ the view of the "proletariat", but I do make exceptions, & this is one)...

anticlutchedit: I actually kind of feel sorry for MS... every day they probably have like 10 lawsuits on their doorsteps against various things :|

To be expected, by anyone OR anything @ the top, of anything... you become a single target, & everyone wants a slice of your pie, lol, OR your backside (especially the wallet-pocket!)

anticlutchBut then again... those are some pretty lucky lawyers since they know for sure that there will always be work for them to do :D

You need them from the minute you're born, until you die... & they elevate into judges, & politicians (many times I have noted, this is their career path/track), & have it ALL "sewed up"...

SO, whatever happened to "natural unwritten human laws" though I wonder?

(Especially in cases of "It's not RIGHT, but it's LEGAL" type b.s.??)

APK

P.S.=> Well, then again: We ALL know who gets hung first in revolutions... don't get me wrong: I don't hate ALL attorneys, & they are useful BECAUSE OF HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS... but, I do not like "it's right but it's legal" @ ALL... apk

KetxxxLets sum this up; the EU has put this forward, as unlike the united states, it believes in FAIR TRADE, which means having at least one serious competitor to keep prices down for the consumer \ business. Now, as I tend to recall, the US wasn't even willing to help all the people out in the 3rd world with the FAIR TRADE agreement, which every other major country signed (as far as I'm aware) :rolleyes:

Thats pretty much; Game. Set. Match Point.

Fair Trade is nothing more than communism in disguise. If you believe in capitalism, then you will see the flaw in the EU's logic. It's ridiculous for the EU to try to make Microsoft publish all the inner workings of their OS. It's proprietary, it's copyrighted, and it is NOT open source, nor should it be. Their licensing clearly states that. They paid a lot of money to develop it. It wasn't a bunch of volunteers working together to build an OS ala open source.

Wile EFair Trade is nothing more than communism in disguise. If you believe in capitalism, then you will see the flaw in the EU's logic. It's ridiculous for the EU to try to make Microsoft publish all the inner workings of their OS. It's proprietary, it's copyrighted, and it is NOT open source, nor should it be. Their licensing clearly states that. They paid a lot of money to develop it. It wasn't a bunch of volunteers working together to build an OS ala open source.

m$ make enough money to throw out the window, they have been paying fine's after fine's and didn't bother about that, so if they don't pay, i suggest linux, and comunism in theory ain't so bad, :)

ptm$ make enough money to throw out the window, they have been paying fine's after fine's and didn't bother about that, so if they don't pay, i suggest linux, and comunism in theory ain't so bad, :)

Just because they make loads of money, doesn't mean they should be forced to changed their whole business model.

And, yes, I agree that communism could be good in theory, but it always fails in execution.

Wile EAnd, yes, I agree that communism could be good in theory, but it always fails in execution.

"Human Nature uber alles!"

:)

* Not ALL human's nature, but the kind that generally rise to the top (& I don't call them the cream either, especially if they do a bang-up job, solely in the name of personal profit, that comes @ the expense of others unjustly!)

You know what I see work, pretty OK, generally? Socialism (except, it has downsides too, like anything)... & personally, I think that communist nations are moving towards capitalism slowly, & capitalist nations NEED to move towards socialist ways, a LOT more.

Heck - we're still in our racial infancy in many ways, still trying to FIND that perfect political system, & we're what? Only 100 generations outta caves (assuming about an avg. 50 yr. lifespan over 2,000 yrs. now, today being 100 yrs. approx. & 20-30, 2,000 yrs. ago, that's about right, assuming we have cultures like China & India w/ over 5,000++ yrs. of recorded history & history goes back farther than that mind you)??

APK

P.S.=> Oh, noooo! Look out: I am off on another "Doom & Gloom" tear... 'somebody stop me', lol...

Ah, things/life: It's all a balance... too much one way? You get screwups... but, too much the OTHER way, you get the same... much like 'optimization curves for solutions' look like imo, & the outliers ARE the screwups/exceptions! apk

No, its not. Whats fair about the business \ consumer paying jacked up prices where theres no competition? As for the rest, I didn't read it because I'm feeling lazy :D

KetxxxNo, its not. Whats fair about the business \ consumer paying jacked up prices where theres no competition?

OK: What about Linux, or other UNIX variants then?

(You're basically saying they are NOT even in the SAME league as far as function, versatility, compatibility w/ as many peripherals, etc. then... & aren't truly competitors to the "Win32 hegemony", lol!)

On cost, they CERTAINLY are (in Linux @ least, & even Solaris, it is free too now).

:)

* I rest my case...

APK

Ketxxx I suggest you look up what Fair-Trade is before you continue. Here is a hint: It has nothing to do with monopolies or how much competition a business has.

Besides that, Microsoft has competition, and it isn't Microsoft's fault they are as popular as they are, they shouldn't have to jump through special hoops to get their products on the market just because they have 85% of the market share. By your logic, in a Fair-Trade environment every OS should have to review what is essentially it's source code. I don't see Apple jumping through the hoops that Microsoft does to get an OS out in the EU.