I don't see how any of their efforts actually contribute to hardware independence if they just keep making VIA derivatives

FlankerI don't see how any of their efforts actually contribute to hardware independence if they just keep making VIA derivatives

"Hardware independence" means migrating all govt. structures and critical infrastructure to their own SoCs, not "replacing everything".
Plus, VIA owns 20% of Zhaoxin, so they have some leverage to push their tech and try out new things at the expense of Chinese govt.

silentbogo"Hardware independence" means migrating all govt. structures and critical infrastructure to their own SoCs, not "replacing everything".
Plus, VIA owns 20% of Zhaoxin, so they have some leverage to push their tech and try out new things at the expense of Chinese govt.

What I mean is that, considering VIA isn't Chinese, are these SOCs really their own? Will they be able to make progress if they, for whatever reason, cut ties with VIA?

@Flanker, look at it this way: failing to create Si independence for Chinese govt. is a loss, but not the first one and not the only one. They can simply fab-out chips based on IP they either licensed in the past from AMD/VIA/ARM (regardless of expiration/validity), or use freshly-stolen IP, release it for internal use and just tell everyone to bugger-off.... or close down the project, cut their losses and forget it ever existed. Plus there are always options like Huawei.
In case of VIA - it's more complicated. 20% stake in that venture is a lot of money, so even if there is some ideological reasons or political pressure to pull out of that deal, there will be even more financial pressure to stay.

Imagine the drivers.

I see the moves of Chinese government as logical. Most of the top semiconductor production is Western-based or Western-owned.

Perhaps someone would remember Warsaw Pact, complete ban of most computer-related products (let alone technologies) and suchforth.

(though SSSR had an ANALOGUE computer, hahahaha - funny but true)

A large and powerful country such as China is preparing for every possibility.

"Made in Taiwan" was once pretty derrogatory term, and now...

Besides, hardware prices in my country are and always were greater than in the USA. It bothers me, to say the truth. Perhaps it wouldn't be so, with Chinese producers with competitive quality, or with Europe-based ones? Healthy competition is always profitable for consumer, including the USA ones.

Mouth of SauronPerhaps someone would remember Warsaw Pact, complete ban of most computer-related products (let alone technologies) and suchforth.

It wasn't really banned. They had homebrew computer clones made domestic you could buy, it was just foreign that was limited. I own one such unit, sitting on my shelf right now, an MK-52 Elektronika Soviet made programable calculator.

It's an interesting little programmable computer, really, complete with EEPROM memory, and horrendous floating point precision. I bought it on ebay for an early college project on reverse engineering a foreign computer system with no documentation.

Mouth of SauronI see the moves of Chinese government as logical. Most of the top semiconductor production is Western-based or Western-owned.

Perhaps someone would remember Warsaw Pact, complete ban of most computer-related products (let alone technologies) and suchforth.

(though SSSR had an ANALOGUE computer, hahahaha - funny but true)

A large and powerful country such as China is preparing for every possibility.

"Made in Taiwan" was once pretty derrogatory term, and now...

Besides, hardware prices in my country are and always were greater than in the USA. It bothers me, to say the truth. Perhaps it wouldn't be so, with Chinese producers with competitive quality, or with Europe-based ones? Healthy competition is always profitable for consumer, including the USA ones.

USSR was cloning 8-bit and 16-bit western computers without a license and selling them to the Warsaw Pact.

The argument "healthy competition is always profitable for the consumer" doesn't work when state owner enterprise caused a market distortion.
China's near dominance over medical supplies during COVID-19 shows national security issues for consumers outside of China.

rvalenciaUSSR was cloning 8-bit and 16-bit western computers without a license and selling them to the Warsaw Pact.

The argument "healthy competition is always profitable for the consumer" doesn't work when state owner enterprise caused a market distortion.
China's near dominance over medical supplies during COVID-19 shows national security issues for consumers outside of China.

Funny, it kinda didn't - have you lived there?

The argument "healthy competition is always profitable for the consumer" works. Thank you.

On COVID19 - well, please don't argue about things that are completely out of topic. Or, show the connections between 'discrete GPU' and 'national security based on medical supplies'.

Mouth of SauronFunny, it kinda didn't - have you lived there?

The argument "healthy competition is always profitable for the consumer" works. Thank you.

On COVID19 - well, please don't argue about things that are completely out of topic. Or, show the connections between 'discrete GPU' and 'national security based on medical supplies'.

Read en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ZX_Spectrum_clones#Soviet/Russian_clones

The argument "healthy competition is always profitable for the consumer" doesn't work when state-owned enterprise engages in the consumer market outside of China. COVID-19 medical supplies are related to single source issues.

Hahahaha, please continue... I live 13km next to ex-Eastern Block and know much about what was produced there. First you talk about 8/16 bits clones, and then ZX f....g SPECTRUM???

You presumed 8088/8086/80286 at first, haven't you? By all means, continue drawing the wisdom from wikipedia, surely you'll find info about obscure computers made in Eastern Europe in '80s...

But do go on, obviously it's a humorous reply!

(except with COVID19, please stick to the topic or open another)

Mouth of SauronHahahaha, please continue... I live 13km next to ex-Eastern Block and know much about what was produced there. First you talk about 8/16 bits clones, and then ZX f....g SPECTRUM???

You presumed 8088/8086/80286 at first, haven't you? By all means, continue drawing the wisdom from wikipedia, surely you'll find info about obscure computers made in Eastern Europe in '80s...

But do go on, obviously it's a humorous reply!

(except with COVID19, please stick to the topic or open another)

www.cpushack.com/soviet-cpus.html

Integrated circuits manufactured in capitalist countries and their analogs manufactured in CMEA (Council of Mutual Economic Assistance) countries (RU link)

There's no need for Wiki links.


www.forbes.com/sites/douglasbulloch/2016/10/12/protectionism-may-be-rising-around-the-world-but-in-china-it-never-went-away/#5dc3f5df73da
Protectionism May Be Rising Around The World, But In China It Never Went Away


You're living in the EU area and the US has its own interest.

Mouth of SauronI see the moves of Chinese government as logical. Most of the top semiconductor production is Western-based or Western-owned.

Perhaps someone would remember Warsaw Pact, complete ban of most computer-related products (let alone technologies) and suchforth.

(though SSSR had an ANALOGUE computer, hahahaha - funny but true)

A large and powerful country such as China is preparing for every possibility.

"Made in Taiwan" was once pretty derrogatory term, and now...

Besides, hardware prices in my country are and always were greater than in the USA. It bothers me, to say the truth. Perhaps it wouldn't be so, with Chinese producers with competitive quality, or with Europe-based ones? Healthy competition is always profitable for consumer, including the USA ones.

CCP's distorted market competition doesn't benefit western consumers in the long run.