ValantarYou mean organized crime beat them to the punch? That's probably true, money laundering is one of the major uses of crypto after all. If what you meant was that small scale investors balance out the big ones... nah. The big ones are too big. If someone pulls hundreds of millions of dollars out at some point - which they will, as all financiers are prone to panic selling - no amount of "little guys" jumping at the opportunity to buy cheap will make a dent in that.

Agree, crypto is a good tool to do evil things, no avoiding that. But I also believe that crypto is not "old-man-tech", they don't understand it and do not thrust it enough to go balls deep with their millions (and it is high risk indeed; hackers, poor insurance, loose you key and your money goes poof). So my bet is no, big investors won't/can't wreck crypto. And don't underestimate the amount of "little guys" with decent amount of money in the game.

BSim500The issue isn't that crypto-currencies or blockchains don't have potential uses when done right

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post, but that initial statement needs a continuation: "it's just that those potential uses are extremely few and far between." Given that the entire premise of the system is increasing difficulty over time, inefficiency is built into it, so the level of security provided becomes moot. The main "useful" use presented has been secure transactions, but that falls apart once you get to the point of "thank you for your purchase, your transaction will be approved in approximately three weeks once our crypto farm in China has processed the secure transaction and provides the proof of purchase. Have a nice three weeks!" Which won't take long, given how these systems are designed. Any system with that level of built-in inefficiency is inherently useless.

bascosorry i hurt you

I'll admit it did hurt my brain a bit to see that collection of false equivalencies and straw men thrown up as if they represented an argument, but overall I wasn't hurt, thankfully, just baffled at the level of delusion. It's also rather telling that you, rather than presenting actual counterarguments or following up on your "points" jump to "sorry I hurt you". It's almost as if there's no substance behind your claims... :rolleyes:

punaniAgree, crypto is a good tool to do evil things, no avoiding that. But I also believe that crypto is not "old-man-tech", they don't understand it and do not thrust it enough to go balls deep with their millions (and it is high risk indeed; hackers, poor insurance, loose you key and your money goes poof). So my bet is no, big investors won't/can't wreck crypto. And don't underestimate the amount of "little guys" with decent amount of money in the game.

Cryptocurrency =/= Bitcoin nor its inflated or deflated value.

The technology for crypto can and is already implemented in services. Bitcoin is already history in terms of 'fueling' that development, alt coins have taken over those reins, and fund further refinements.

punaniAgree, crypto is a good tool to do evil things, no avoiding that. But I also believe that crypto is not "old-man-tech", they don't understand it and do not thrust it enough to go balls deep with their millions (and it is high risk indeed; hackers, poor insurance, loose you key and your money goes poof). So my bet is no, big investors won't/can't wreck crypto. And don't underestimate the amount of "little guys" with decent amount of money in the game.

Okay, here's some simple math: a hundred thousand little guys with US$10 000 (which is a lot for most people) invested in crypto is the equivalent of one billion-dollar hedge fund. It takes so damn many little guys to make even a dent, so this will never be a real check to the power of big players. Add a dozen or two funds, banks, and large-scale individual investors, and the little guys are just along for the ride with literally zero say in anything. Don't be fooled by the Gamestop thing - that was a smart attack on a clear and obvious weakness with no real countermeasures available. There are no such openings within crypto, as it is ultimately a single system of exchange.

As for organized crime, they are always at the forefront of adopting new ways of hiding or laundering their money. Don't be fooled by clichés of mafiosos with suitcases full of cash - they might well have those too, but their best friends are bankers, shell companies and bitcoin exchanges. And they're not afraid of losing their money, as money laundering typically has massive costs - a 10:1 rate from unlaundered to laundered money is a good outcome, so if you lose 90% of your drug money yet cash out in "clean" money that's still a win for them.

AHH I remember years ago started the bit coin thread on here. I couldn't get the GPU miner working back then so gave up.

Would of had a decent amount of money by now heh.

ValantarOkay, here's some simple math: a hundred thousand little guys with US$10 000 (which is a lot for most people) invested in crypto is the equivalent of one billion-dollar hedge fund. It takes so damn many little guys to make even a dent, so this will never be a real check to the power of big players. Add a dozen or two funds, banks, and large-scale individual investors, and the little guys are just along for the ride with literally zero say in anything. Don't be fooled by the Gamestop thing - that was a smart attack on a clear and obvious weakness with no real countermeasures available. There are no such openings within crypto, as it is ultimately a single system of exchange.

As for organized crime, they are always at the forefront of adopting new ways of hiding or laundering their money. Don't be fooled by clichés of mafiosos with suitcases full of cash - they might well have those too, but their best friends are bankers, shell companies and bitcoin exchanges. And they're not afraid of losing their money, as money laundering typically has massive costs - a 10:1 rate from unlaundered to laundered money is a good outcome, so if you lose 90% of your drug money yet cash out in "clean" money that's still a win for them.

But for the hedge fund or mafioso to be able to sell, they would have to buy in = price increase before any decrease = no dent. As I said, too late to the game to make an effect when the argument is to defund any small players.

The current bitcoin price is a bubble sure, but I do not believe anything is organized when it comes to bitcoin or any crypto. From what i've seen, its a casino.

kayjay010101How is the united states dollar considered a valid currency when in just over 70 years it's lost almost 1000% value due to inflation? ($100 in 1950 = $985.40 today)
All currencies fluctuate in value. Bitcoin is still in its infancy. Most likely it won't ever take over as a legitimate currency; it's too archaic and more of a proof of concept than an actual currency. But something like Carcano or Ethereum definitely could.

All currencies fluctuate in value. Successful currencies (many are that, most of the time, and many aren't) have a small inflation rate, which is around 2% per year and is kept in check by governments. That's because money is meant to circulate, be spent, be invested. If the inflation gets dangerously close to zero or even below zero, bills and coins stop being a means of payment and become an investment themselves. Everyone gets a long-lasting headache.

Is anyone able to create a cryptocurrency that behaves predictably like a currency but is not tied to $/€? I don't know.

It is a shame Tesla cannot turn in a profit without in game cash. :(

bascothey dont like it and make new rules

The royal perogative.

When it eventually and inevitably crashes, you can expect a tsunami of cheap high end graphics cards.

meanwhile, at Zotac

Well what can I say I started nice hash last week Monday (Some of my friends thought it was a government product lol). I only run it when I am working though and I only use my Gaming PC. I have been making about 5 Euros a day since then. I am now at 34 Euros, even with the cost of electricity factored in I have still made almost 50 CAD with no real effort.

mtcn77It is a shame Tesla cannot turn in a profit without in game cash. :(

I got to say there is something surreal about a company not turning in a single dime in profit until last year since it's inception buying 1.5 billion dollars worth of bitcoin.

DuxCroWhen it eventually and inevitably crashes, you can expect a tsunami of cheap high end graphics cards.

Yup. Let's just hope it happens sooner rather than later.

Vya DomusI got to say there is something surreal about a company not truing in a single dime in profit until last year since it's inception buying 1.5 billion dollars worth of bitcoin.

One has to wonder how much of that "zero profit" is down to actual profits being squirreled away through shell companies etc. Musk gets his money from somewhere, after all, and there are far less taxes to pay if you're not making a profit.

ValantarOne has to wonder how much of that "zero profit" is down to actual profits being squirreled away through shell companies etc.

I don't know, Tesla really does seem like a joke of a company kept on life support indefinitely by constant capital infusions and memes. Tesla is the car manufacturer equivalent of Star Citizen.

Elon is very talented in manipulating investors.

Vya DomusI don't know, Tesla really does seem like a joke of a company kept on life support indefinitely by constant capital infusions and memes. Tesla is the car manufacturer equivalent of Star Citizen.

Elon is very talented in manipulating investors.

Not really, Tesla makes most of its money from selling carbon certificates, they've made 1.6 billion on it in 2020.

I'm not sure if crypto coins are going to a be a thing long term, however there are some really cool projects that use crypto that solve some really old problems. Take basic attention token for example used by Brave. You can pay online content creators directly using it rather than having to jump through a paywall or use a credit card or scamPal. It brings the end user as close to the creator as possible and transaction fee is much smaller than what a credit card would charge. For instance, rather than having to subscribe to a site like medium you could simply tip them a small amount directly from your digital wallet. The transaction is immediate and the cost is negligible. With ad blockers getting better every year content creators are going to start looking for better ways to generate revenue and everyone knows paywalls are not the answer.

kayjay010101How is the united states dollar considered a valid currency when in just over 70 years it's lost almost 1000% value due to inflation? ($100 in 1950 = $985.40 today)
All currencies fluctuate in value. Bitcoin is still in its infancy. Most likely it won't ever take over as a legitimate currency; it's too archaic and more of a proof of concept than an actual currency. But something like ADA or Ethereum definitely could.

I'd like to believe that there is blood willing to be spilt to protect it. There isn't such a commitment behind digital currencies.

Both sad and ridiculous. If I would have started mining this from Day 1 I would be retired now on a $300 vid card and $1000 of electricity. What a messed up world.

So much wrong information in here. That's crazy coming from a TECH forum.

boulard83So much wrong information in here.

Care to correct it then ?

Vya DomusCare to correct it then ?

Agreed, would love to see some follow-up on that statement.

Vya DomusCare to correct it then ?

ValantarAgreed, would love to see some follow-up on that statement.

First of, sorry for my typing. ENG is not my first language.
I wont cover every stupid post i've seen in here but i'll cover the surface of what i see wrong here.

There are over 8000 cryptos right now, BTC is far from alone. Some if not most of these have actual working product (working right now, adding more later) or are in the making of a product. Some other are just currency that want to become the money of the future. But, i have to agree that some crypto are just shit coins, they exist.

All the post i see in here like "it's a lottery", "it's a ponzy", "only for money laundering" and i can just quote and quote and quote on every non-sense that I've seen here. All these comment sound like people that have read a single article about BTC/Crypto stating the said shit and they stopped here.... and now just repeat the same shit every time they see CRYPTO anywhere.


Educate yourself, read LOTS of article about LOTS of project on the crypto universe. THEN, if you still think they are all piece of junk get back with valid fact.


FYI : Right now you can make your everyday grocery with crypto. Right now there are games, casino, software and more running on crypto as their "transaction database/currency". There are lots of working product and currency running with crypto and it's been like that for quite some time now. It's just growing and growing.

boulard83First of, sorry for my typing. ENG is not my first language.
I wont cover every stupid post i've seen in here but i'll cover the surface of what i see wrong here.

There are over 8000 cryptos right now, BTC is far from alone. Some if not most of these have actual working product (working right now, adding more later) or are in the making of a product. Some other are just currency that want to become the money of the future. But, i have to agree that some crypto are just shit coins, they exist.

All the post i see in here like "it's a lottery", "it's a ponzy", "only for money laundering" and i can just quote and quote and quote on every non-sense that I've seen here. All these comment sound like people that have read a single article about BTC/Crypto stating the said shit and they stopped here.... and now just repeat the same shit every time they see CRYPTO anywhere.


Educate yourself, read LOTS of article about LOTS of project on the crypto universe. THEN, if you still think they are all piece of junk get back with valid fact.


FYI : Right now you can make your everyday grocery with crypto. Right now there are games, casino, software and more running on crypto as their "transaction database/currency". There are lots of working product and currency running with crypto and it's been like that for quite some time now. It's just growing and growing.

Shitcoins don't just exist, most of them are shitcoins. And there is real proof that at least of them, apart from being worthless, are also actual scams and their creators have been caught outright lying and misleading people like was the case with Tether.

People keep saying that it's a Ponzi scheme because of the colossal amount of scams and services that went bust or which have stolen money related to crypto, I don't have to list them all I am sure you're well aware of them. And if you want to argue that it has nothing to do with crypto itself I am still not buying it (pun not intended), it's the nature of crypto which enables these massive scams to be executed so freely and effective.

And lastly, I can buy exactly jack shit with crypto where I live and I doubt this is any different in 99.99% of places.

I like a good crypto sjw.