Friday, January 21st 2022

Bitcoin Drops Below the $40,000-mark, Raises Hopes of Graphics Card Availability

The most popular cryptocurrency by market-cap, Bitcoin, has dropped in value to below the USD $40,000-mark, to $38,429 as of this writing. This amounts to a whopping 43% drop in value from its November 2021 peak of roughly $67,600. Ethereum has also seen an 8% fall over the past 24 hours, as has the value of several other cryptocurrencies. While we won't get into the nuts and bolts of Bitcoin volatility or hand out any financial advice, this could have an impact on graphics card availability owing to a multitude of reasons.

As of this writing, we see the GeForce RTX 3080 commanding a scalper price of roughly $1,500 (brand new), for the LHR variant (lower crypto-mining performance), while non-LHR cards that are used, start around $1,900. If the fall in cryptocurrencies continues, we could see increased availability of used graphics cards from crypto miners, as gamers would be willing to buy a used RTX 30-series or RX 6000 series graphics card that's still within its warranty period (of 2 years).
Sales of used cards by miners will apply pressure on scalpers hording new cards to cut prices, more so as they'd be trying to sell newer batches of RTX 30-series cards that are LHR. Add to all this, the next-generation crypto-mining ASICs are on the anvil, including Bitmain's Antminer S19 XP, and Intel's "Bonanza Mine" ASIC that the company plans to unveil next month. The arrival of ASIC miners usually triggers an increase in the mining difficulty algorithm, which should worsen the performance/Dollar of GPUs in mining applications. The compound effect of all these, we predict, could briefly improve graphics card availability in 1H-2022. A continued fall in the value of cryptocurrencies will only accelerate this.
Sources: Google Finance, CNBC
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110 Comments on Bitcoin Drops Below the $40,000-mark, Raises Hopes of Graphics Card Availability

#51
dragontamer5788
MetroidFasten your seatbelts trolls, btc is going back below 10k by the end of this year. Thank me later.


ETH is going much lower, right now it seems impossible but eth could crash back to below 300 usd, in 2018 eth crashed 95%, so I'd say do not rush to buy it, let it crash.
The tether money printer needs to collapse before crypto coins collapse in general.

As long as those shady overseas folk keep printing USDT and pretending it is a dollar, crypto coins will remain somewhat stable.
Posted on Reply
#52
tomc100
I don't have a problem with cryptocurrency. I have a major problem with people mining it which is the biggest waste of energy and doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't it be more valuable if you have to pay for it rather than mine it? Doesn't mining it devalues its price? With any currency, if you create more than you cause inflation so wouldn't it be in their own interest for these cryptocurrency to not allow mining? I don't understand this stuff.
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#53
lexluthermiester
MetroidFasten your seatbelts trolls, btc is going back below 10k by the end of this year.
Yeah, I don't see that happening.
Posted on Reply
#54
R-T-B
MetroidFasten your seatbelts trolls, btc is going back below 10k by the end of this year. Thank me later.
Don't care either way, but cool trollium crystal ball.
tomc100I don't have a problem with cryptocurrency. I have a major problem with people mining it which is the biggest waste of energy and doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't it be more valuable if you have to pay for it rather than mine it? Doesn't mining it devalues its price? With any currency, if you create more than you cause inflation so wouldn't it be in their own interest for these cryptocurrency to not allow mining? I don't understand this stuff.
If no one mined it there'd be no currency in PoW coins. And indeed you don't understand. Crypto release rate is nearly always fixed regardless of how many mine.
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#55
Jism
The mining with GPU's should have never bin invented, as it brings in completely nothing to the table other then a huge waste of resources. Some mining farms consume more then a complete city in that regards, while now we're at a global crisis in terms of price for electricity. As for BTC it's nothing more then a money laundrey scam as people use it primarily to evade tax but also to pay or run websites that are'nt really legal. Think of things from the darkweb and such. I cant really think of a daily situation in where i would really need BTC.
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#56
k_9virus
im mining for a year now with 2 gpus and already paid for itself, now all the money i earned as long as i have share for electricity bill and full tank of gas a month im going to continue mining lol
Posted on Reply
#57
Metroid
lexluthermiesterYeah, I don't see that happening.
same thing in 2018, people would have never believed anybody that said bitcoin would crash to 3k after it hit 20k and it stayed at 3k for months, flash crash to below 10k very possible, will see.
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#58
Dr. Dro
DeeJay1001Mining GPUs are run at a constant temperature, rarely power or temperature cycled, and run far below maximum power. Not to mention the person running the mining card has alot more reason to keep that card in good condition than the average gamer. I would choose an ex-minig card, over a general use card every time without question.
I see this awful take thrown around a lot, but this is just misinformation thrown around by people who actually own "mining equipment" and is looking to dump these in the hands of unsuspecting gamers at the earliest signs of mild hardware failure, so I suppose it's high time I counter it myself:

1. You cannot seriously believe that every miner is running a well-conditioned environment with AC on 24/7 (aka even higher power bills, especially considering the high heat output of many GPUs working together), this statement is objectively false and almost never the case: GPUs can take heat over time and electricity costs to keep a cryptocurrency farm air-conditioned far exceed the costs of replacing failing hardware itself; this is especially true when you are talking about small-time mining operations where one of those miserable crypto bros bought himself a rig with 12 RTX 3080s and thinks he's buying his way into the metaverse;

2. You cannot seriously believe that every miner is running a heavily optimized power curve; especially in large-scale operations as each individual graphics card's ASIC has its own power characteristics and it is simply impractical to develop custom BIOSes for each and every of them, especially when you are running 1000+ GPUs... Miners do not run Windows, which makes it doubly-difficult to manually test and batch assign each and every GPU to its optimal power curve. Additionally, power cycling the hardware not only is harmless but also occurs eventually even in high-uptime scenarios, servers must restart and receive maintenance periodically which is why failover clustering and backup systems exist;

3. Mining is an exceptionally intensive workload, placing a very high burden on the graphics card's power delivery system and - due to the aforementioned reasons - WILL cause heat damage to the hardware - even if running at an acceptable temperature, you're talking about 100,000+ hours at a constant 80°C+ heat load - goodbye caps, goodbye MOSFETs... memory ICs are particularly sensitive to the heat damage, if you get your hands on a known mined GPU and place it side by side with a new one you will see that there is clear heat damage surrounding the memory area, usually yellowed and sometimes, the plastic packaging surrounding the memory die itself will feel warped... in fact, the GPU ASIC itself is usually the only thing that survives and these have been finding their way into hardware recycling factories in China, resold through unlicensed OEMs that aren't listed in AMD's or NVIDIA's board partner list to unsuspecting customers as new GPUs.

A high profile example recently concerns Afox's RX 580s that have been dumped on third world markets, they are visibly recycled Polaris ASICs with *visible* heat damage (discolored substrate, yellowed epoxy) that are just removed from dead GPUs and reinstalled onto a new PCB. There was a huge commotion over it recently as Latin America's largest hardware channel got wind of it and exposed for everyone to see, at around 5:45 there is an example of what I mean:


It's akin to "okay I am going to buy this mildly used quote unquote high endurance MLC enterprise SSD! They will last a lifetime!" except they've already had PBs of data run through them and their SMART is almost about to trigger, but since it will end up on a Windows system that won't complain until the bitter end, it'll go unnoticed until the final outcome occurs... you know it, I know it, the scalpers know it and the miners know it. It's just average joe gamer that is lured in by the prospect of buying a GPU that has had 95% of its useful life run through at an "acceptable" cost - this is miners double dipping and laughing all the way home after dropping you this big fat 糞.

I could come up with more reasons for one not to buy a mined GPU but it would come down to the single old adage: a deal that is too good to be true most likely is; and that a fool and his money are soon parted.
Posted on Reply
#59
Chrispy_
tomc100I don't have a problem with cryptocurrency. I have a major problem with people mining it which is the biggest waste of energy and doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't it be more valuable if you have to pay for it rather than mine it? Doesn't mining it devalues its price? With any currency, if you create more than you cause inflation so wouldn't it be in their own interest for these cryptocurrency to not allow mining? I don't understand this stuff.
I also have an environmental conscience to keep clean as an ETH miner, and whilst Bitcoin mining is largely a waste of fossil fuel electricity in places like Ukraine, my own personal rigs aren't weighing on my conscience:

I have an air-source heatpump to keep my home warm and heat my domestic hot water. The house sucks in fresh air from outside and a large (somewhat noisy) compressor in a utility closet takes the warm air from indoors, compressing it further to extract heat in a heat exhanger before exhausting it externally. It's not 100% efficient but every Watt of waste heat ejected by my mining rigs is being compressed and converted into maintaining the temperature of my domestic hot water tank to feed the radiators in each room and, primarily, heat the gallons of water we use to bathe and shower every day.

The alternative, without eth mining rigs is that the compressor has to run much harder, and much longer, with the additional burden of an 8KW immersion heater in the tank.
  • Without ETH mining I spend electricity to heat water using mechanical compressors and electric heater elements in the hot water tank.
  • With ETH mining I spend electricity to mine ETH and warm my home and then reclaim that heat for the hot water tank.
Either way the electricity is being converted to heat, but I choose to do it whilst also making a profit. If I scaled my rigs up beyond four I would have more heat than my home needs for winter and it's already partially wasted in Summer. My annual energy bill is about 40% higher than it was last year, so it's not a perfectly efficient system, but it was also a pretty energy-efficient home in the first place so a 40% increase on that is pretty negligible and I suspect a good chunk of that increase is because COVID-19 has meant that we're all in the home a lot more than we were previously.
Posted on Reply
#60
Easo
B3l1vlNo matter how much bitcoin falls, we will no longer see normal prices on video cards ...
Yeah, add me to this. 3080 level card is probably never again going to be sold for under 1k USD/EUR/equivalent.
I don't want to think about it, but I really don't see it going any other way.
Posted on Reply
#61
Vya Domus
R-T-BI'd remind TPU that market price has no correlation to mining-profitability in crypto realm, as most miners sell and don't hold, and adaptive diffilculty ensures it remains profitable.
That's simply not true, there is a point when the price can drop so much that it's no longer feasible for most to pay thousands of dollars per card and have a reasonable ROI within sight. If what you claim was true then for example going all the way back to 2017 the prices of GPUs should have never dropped, since according to you the crash that occurred during that period should have had no impact on profitability hence miners would have continued to buy all the cards that were available.
DeeJay1001Mining GPUs are run at a constant temperature, rarely power or temperature cycled, and run far below maximum power. Not to mention the person running the mining card has alot more reason to keep that card in good condition than the average gamer. I would choose an ex-minig card, over a general use card every time without question.
Doesn't matter how good the conditions are, keeping a card running non stop will still affect the lifespan of the components.
Posted on Reply
#62
Chomiq
EasoYeah, add me to this. 3080 level card is probably never again going to be sold for under 1k USD/EUR/equivalent.
I don't want to think about it, but I really don't see it going any other way.
Thing is - FE's are being sold for under 1k.
Posted on Reply
#63
Vya Domus
ChomiqThing is - FE's are being sold for under 1k.
Where ? Even if that's true there is such an insignificant amount of FE cards being made it's totally irrelevant.
Posted on Reply
#64
Chomiq
Vya DomusWhere ? Even if that's true there is such an insignificant amount of FE cards being made it's totally irrelevant.
In Europe? Scan, NBB, LDLC. That covers at least 9 countries, more if you play with B2B. Check PartAllert on discord, they've got successful order section.
Posted on Reply
#65
Dux
Interesting. Crypto price drops, Nvidia responds by raising prices of their founders edition cards in EU.

Posted on Reply
#66
Chomiq
DuxCroInteresting. Crypto price drops, Nvidia responds by raising prices of their founders edition cards in EU.

Their excuse is that it is not because of crypto but due to exchange rates.
Posted on Reply
#67
Vya Domus
ChomiqIn Europe? Scan, NBB, LDLC. That covers at least 9 countries, more if you play with B2B. Check PartAllert on discord, they've got successful order section.
I laterally cannot find any FE cards at all let alone one that's under 1K, can you give me a link to one ?
Posted on Reply
#68
Chomiq
Vya DomusI laterally cannot find any FE card at all let alone one that's under 1K, can you give me a link to one ?

Last drops from all three stores, and that's only for 3080.
Posted on Reply
#69
R0H1T
DuxCroNvidia responds by raising prices of their founders edition cards in EU.
Ngreedia :slap:
Posted on Reply
#70
Vya Domus
Chomiq
Last drops from all three stores, and that's only for 3080.
But this proves my point, the stocks are minuscule, otherwise you wouldn't need to search in obscure discords for proof that they exist lol.
Posted on Reply
#71
Chomiq
Vya DomusBut this proves my point, otherwise you wouldn't need to search in obscure discords for proof that they exist lol.
Just because you don't try doesn't mean they don't exist.
Posted on Reply
#72
Vya Domus
ChomiqJust because you don't try doesn't mean they don't exist.
I'm not denying they exist but it makes little to no difference to the overall market if 1 out of 1000 products gets sold at a decent price.
Posted on Reply
#73
de.das.dude
Pro Indian Modder
using crypto for money laundering - so hot right now!!!!
Posted on Reply
#74
lexluthermiester
Metroidsame thing in 2018, people would have never believed anybody that said bitcoin would crash to 3k after it hit 20k and it stayed at 3k for months, flash crash to below 10k very possible, will see.
That's an interesting perspective. The market has change in the last few years. Time will tell...
Posted on Reply
#75
Metroid
Do not make the mistake of mining, mining is only good on bullruns and to make the best of it, you need to sell close to the top and 0.01% of traders does that, example, think how many people sold bitcoin around 69k that you know?, probably nobody, so forget, remember that mining is linked to hardware price and how much it gives at that time, buying coins is always better but buying coins at top or close to the top is always a very bad deal, buying coins is only good in a bear market and you need to make sure you buy close to the bottom, where is the bottom going to be? that needs some study of your part because holding coins for years is not good business, trust me.
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