@Prima.Vera @Icon Charlie
Please watch the video from Dr. Ian Cutress which explains what the news about undershipping actually mean. It is just 2 comment up. There is also the full quote in the video not only the part which used some news outlets to spread out of context information.

Here is the video again for your convenience.

FluffmeisterIn space, no one can hear you scream "AMD market manipulation".

O please, they all do\doing it, only difference is AMD opted to be honest.

Vya DomusHow exactly do you increase your margins by shipping less products ?

By selling whats going to be much harder to sell due to be older.

AsRockO please, they all do\doing it, only difference is AMD opted to be honest.

Indeed, AMD are dicks and are no better than the rest... Hopefully people will stop thinking of them as some poor charity case that needs extra love.

john_AMD isn't really selling

Ah, mindfactory DE is faking the sales of AMD GPUs.

Makes sense. Or wait, no, it doesn't.

AMD has commented about Filthy Green stats on Steam numerous times, namely that overwhelming majority of internet cafe's are using green GPUs which skewes it badly.

As for "JPR would not make it up", it doesn't have a realiable source and their figures simply do not add up with the official earning figures.

Vayra86But it still doesn't compare favorably to a 4070ti... You're looking at a >30% performance win at a 30% price increase then

>30% perfomance win, eh? :)

www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-tuf/32.html

20% more perf and 25% less VRAM... and... wait for it... actually 44% higher price... (that's what 970 is to 670) :D

If one goes into that price bracket, 7900 XT, on top of having nearly twice as much VRAM, does this to 4070Ti at games:

Prima.VeraSo AMD is going nGreedy leather jacket guy way...

Everyone who feeled the urge to misread things that way, cannot by stopped any more.

Fluffmeisterdicks and are no better than the rest...

Even Intel didn't go as low as strongarming journalists.

Leather Man did even that. More than once.

I just want to chime in. I see a lot of 4070TI noise. The truth is it is $100 cheaper than the 7900XT but 12GB of VRAM is stupid for a 1440P Ultra card in 2023. Newbs are ignorant though and will get the 4070TI without realizing they could have spent 1/2 the money and got a 6700XT.

Speaking of Steam stats, I see the recently launched RTX 4090 is already above the likes of the RX 6800 XT and RX 6900 XT, I mean damn... that's an internet cafe I'd like to check me emails at.

medi01Ah, mindfactory DE is faking the sales of AMD GPUs.

?

claesNo horse in this race, but last gen amd does not out sell last gen nvidia at Mindfactory (unless you count the 6400, which I guess counts if you’re being so honest and including including consoles, but then may as well as include igpus, at which point Intel is probably the winner)

www.notebookcheck.net/Divisive-RTX-4070-Ti-reportedly-leads-the-GPU-sales-race-on-Mindfactory.682638.0.html

As for "JPR would not make it up", it doesn't have a realiable source and their figures simply do not add up with the official earning figures.

JPR is the reliable source though?

www.jonpeddie.com/

www.jonpeddie.com/news/q322-biggest-qtr-to-qtr-drop-since-the-2009-recession/

medi01Ah, mindfactory DE is faking the sales of AMD GPUs.

Makes sense. Or wait, no, it doesn't.

AMD has commented about Filthy Green stats on Steam numerous times, namely that overwhelming majority of internet cafe's are using green GPUs which skewes it badly.

As for "JPR would not make it up", it doesn't have a realiable source and their figures simply do not add up with the official earning figures.

>30% perfomance win, eh? :)

www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-tuf/32.html

20% more perf and 25% less VRAM... and... wait for it... actually 44% higher price... (that's what 970 is to 670) :D

If one goes into that price bracket, 7900 XT, on top of having nearly twice as much VRAM, does this to 4070Ti at games:

Yeah, in an ideal world. But that's not where you're at when you consider local pricing. The fact is, Nvidia's better availability pushes the price down closer to MSRP, making the 4070ti a better deal...

Although things are improving, I can apparently get a 7900XT for 958 eur now; cheapest 4070ti goes for 903.
But if you then place that up against the overall performance gaps between RT and raster, its not like AMD has an objectively better offer here - only spec wise they have more VRAM and better bandwidth, but on other aspects, I'm not seeing a big advantage there for paying at least 50 eur more?

That said, I'm not in the market for a 900 dollar GPU. Retarded price to pay for a GPU, won't ever happen unless its something truly special - which nothing really is right now, unless we count negative aspects as special like excessive power draw. And then we come to the core of the issue. The lower tier GPUs are old news and yet still priced along the same metric as the new stuff, making them overpriced as well.

I'll wait. NP!

john_CPUs are seeing price redactions for a few months now, it's not "just now". GPUs are seeing price reductions for much longer. While in CPUs the problem remains because of the motherboard prices and DDR5 prices, in GPUs they should have seen an increase in market share, not decline. Because Nvidia didn't drop prices, or at least it didn't dropped them to even much MSRP prices. With the only exception being the ridiculously expensive models. But, the press and Youtubers that inform people about price reductions, where constantly downplayed AMD's price reductions, while focusing on price reductions on RTX 3090/Ti models. AMD was dropping prices, Nvidia was getting all the press coverage with titles "Nvidia dropped prices, now it is the time to buy". Of course, let me repeat my self here, the price reductions where meaningful only on the already expensive models. Even today 3000 series sells above MSRP.


AMD's GPUs are cheaper than Nvidia GPUs. In some cases they are both cheaper and better. But consumers prefer to buy Nvidia cards because they are convinced that no matter the price, Nvidia is the better brand. Trolls, posters, as we have seen in this thread also, journalists, youtubers, are doing a fine job into creating a picture for AMD where it's products are inferior and their drivers are junk. They are doing a fine job into destroying AMD's image, when at the same time they will do anything to cover up Nvidia's failures. In just last month everyone rush to hamper RX 6000 sales by creating fear about RX 6000 dying because of a driver. One repair shop in Germany makes a video about dead cards and while there where ZERO other reports about something similar, not to mention no one wondering if there was any credibility behind that video, ALL and I mean ALL rush to come out with titles "AMD's RX 6000 cards are dying", "AMD's driver kills 6000 series cards" and stuff. Now, AMD says that it is limiting supply of GPUs in the channel, because there are plenty in the market that consumers don't buy and what do we read left and right? That a company that only controls 8% of the market share, can manipulate the market and prices by limiting it's supply. Which is plain stupid.


Consumers need to take care of themselves. I never said that consumers need to take care of AMD. Please don't make ridiculous assumptions about what I mean.

AMD needs to take care of it's balance and margins. But I do not see how a company that is doing continually price reductions all those last months, do it in a way that is against the consumer. Maybe you can explain this. You know what is against the consumer? Selling 2 years old cards above MSRP. Increasing prices across the board. Selling a heavily cut down version of a GPU at $1200, to promote the $1600 model. Trying to sell an xx60 model as an xx80 model at a price above that of the last xx80 model. In the end an xx70 is priced above last gen's xx80 model and everyone rushed to call it "consumer victory". Yes, consumers, you won. Now go and buy the xx70 model at $800 or more(see the difference when it is about Nvidia?). What else is bad for consumers? How about using fps scores with DLSS 3.0 vs DLSS 2.0 to convince people that they are buying a faster card.

In the CPU market Intel managed to turn things around with Alder Lake. It now sells models at all price points with more cores than AMD. In the past AMD managed to win the retail market by doing the same. Selling more cores/threads at all price points. Many of those cores, in Intel's case, are E cores, but consumers don't know it, don't know the difference, no one can blame them for not knowing the difference. Also Intel's platform by using DDR4 and with no upgrade path is much cheaper. So there it is completely understandable seeing people choosing the Intel platform. No one will blame the consumer there.
In GPUs the situation is different. People buy the RTX 3050 over the RX 6600. People pay $1600 for the RTX 4090. It's not totally their fault. Press, Youtubers, posters, trolls, will send consumers to buy Nvidia cards. "Buy the RTX 4090, it's the fastest card, better value than the RTX 4080". "Buy the RTX 3050, it's more expensive and slower, but it comes with more features and better drivers. The AMD cards are full of problems". So, in the GPU market I DO blame consumers. Because now we have a monopoly. And as long as Nvidia enjoys 90% of market share, prices generation after generation will be going up. And performance will see a stagnation (at probably under $700) the type we seen when Intel was selling quad cores year after year.

Some people seems to love stagnation and monopoly and love to blame the company that is their only chance to avoid it (because Intel is 2-4 years away from becoming an Nvidia direct competitor).

Was off for the week, so a late response but still :)

"consumers having turned their backs to AMD" imply that consumers had responsibility as if they needed any care.

We agree that AMD can`t control or manipulate the market, but they seems to act in a way to do so in order to better their stand in this time.
NV make more profit from lower tier GPU`s, also agreed. They shove the RTX in everyone mouth chow on that yummy gimmick eye candy.
The press, that feed upon like and watch, try to exploit what they can to get more of that. They don`t really car for NV, but if it increase the pay they keep on doing it but it`s not 'personal' against AMD (or anyone else).

Some require better moral standard from AMD, the underdog, the last stand against NV malicious practice. When they buy AMD thay also buy the hope of a better economy and more pleasant world. And that`s way they roar when AMD do NV but not the opposite. A very much double standard. I think it`s wrong to think like that and require only truth in spec from those company's.

To blame consumers on monopoly well, I don`t agree. If AMD can`t keep up than go away. If there profit in this business someone will take it`s place. If not, just hold on to your current GPU until the game wont lunch and than go to play older games. No one is in those company hands as long as you can do compromise.
They owe you nothing, and vies versa.

FluffmeisterSpeaking of Steam stats, I see the recently launched RTX 4090 is already above the likes of the RX 6800 XT and RX 6900 XT, I mean damn... that's an internet cafe I'd like to check me emails at.

You are welcome.

www.archyde.com/synchronized-nvidia-debut-the-first-internet-cafe-in-the-country-to-install-rtx-4090-nvidia-cnbeta-com/

Vayra86The fact is, Nvidia's better availability pushes the price down closer to MSRP, making the 4070ti a better deal...

Dude, you have referred to a card 44% pricier and 20% faster as 33% pricier and >30% faster.
Now you have concerns about paying 1-5% more for a 10% faster GPU with twice VRAM.

It is perfectly fine to stick with the brand, no need to twist reality.

claes?

Measured in units of GPUs saled at mindfactory, AMD's share is between 35%-45%.

Quite in line with last quarters figures, if we assume about $100 per APU for consoles on AMD side. (1.6 billion by AMD GPU + consoles division, vs 1.57 billion by NV)


As for 4xxx vs 7xxx series, the latter is quite ahead, but is also cheaper.

Mindfactory data is useless though… It only accounts for one market, excludes pre-builts, and isn’t aggregated. For their data to be helpful for even their market you’d have to add up every quarterly report, do some funny math to account for upgrades, and then you’d have incomplete data for one market that still excludes pre-builts, professional and server cards, etc. Worth emphasizing that those last two markets are where all the money is — the AIB space pales in comparison. They aren’t even designing cards for us — we’re an afterthought.

Consoles aren’t dgpus. Like I said before, if we account for igpus then in all likelihood Intel will be the far and away winner.

This is why the JPR data is so helpful. They actually have relationships with GPU manufacturers, AIBs, OEMs, and resellers. They are literally the industry standard. Extrapolating ownership from two quarters from one reseller is never going to be as accurate, nor is steam.

As for how accurate JPR is, I’m admittedly just trusting their authority in the market (even amd and nvidia use them to determine demand and the like). Personally I’m unwilling to spend $2500 to explore the veracity of their claims.

claesaccounts for one market

The biggest and richest in Europe. Yeah. "only one".

claesJPR data is so helpful

That it doesn't even align with earnings figures, eh?

1.6 billion made by AMD GPU + Console business in one quarter.
1.57 billion made by NV (a sharp drop from earlier years mind you).

Sharp drop in NV's revenue, no such thing on AMD part YET AMD's GPU market share sharply drops... does that look fine to you?.

claesExtrapolating ownership from two quarters

Nah, it's been consistent for years.

Even AMD says their dgpu sales dropped. You are either wrong or managed to figured out something AMD and the market research firm they invest in didn’t. Get over it.

ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1115/amd-reports-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2022-financial

Gaming segment revenue was $1.6 billion, down 7% year-over-year driven by lower gaming graphics sales partially offset by higher semi-custom product revenue.

claessales dropped

So convenient of you not to cite the relevant part.

But wait, NV says sales dropped. What do we do with 2 drops? Mm, hard one isn't it? Wait, only one of the two actually have seen a major revenue drop?

Only if we had brains to comprehend that... :D

Ew...

I don't get what needs to happen for people to comprehend these simple figures:

1.6 billion made by AMD GPU + Console business in one quarter.
1.57 billion made by NV (a sharp drop from earlier years mind you).

Per quarter AMD shifts maybe 7-8 million console APUs. How much, do you think, they can get per one, if MSRP of a full blown console with a controller in a country with 20% VAT was 399€?

They literally said that the GPU sales drops were only offset by consoles lol

Best of luck with your studies in inference, you are clearly more studious than the firms with 30 years of experience that amd pays and partners with for market research, and their own internal data

claesThey literally said that the GPU sales drops were only offset by consoles lol

There is ACROSS INDUSTRY sales drops of GPUs of 42%, eh...

Only 6.9 million dGPUs were sold in that quarter.

claesfirms with 30 years

I have friends in the big name companies, stranger, and know how that sh*t works.
And no, it is not scientific.

Also, one does not need to be a shoe maker to understand that shoes do not fit.

1.6 billion sales, 7 or so million console APUs shifted. How much could AMD be getting per APU is not a hard question to figure.

That's great, good for you

medi011.6 billion sales, 7 or so million console APUs shifted. How much could AMD be getting per APU is not a hard question to figure.

looks like you were only a few million off :)
www.tomshardware.com/news/sony-becomes-largest-customer-of-amd

6.805B - 3.776B = 3.029B annually in dGPUs, or around $750M a quarter

claeslooks like you were only a few million off :)

A few million of what? :D :kookoo:

claesaround $750M a quarter

I will ignore the fact that Sony's share was BOOSTED.
So of 1600M it had last quarter, 750M were sony's.

That leaves us with 850M for Microsoft console chips + dGPUs.

For "AMD's dgpu market share is at around 10%" to stand, Microsoft would need to nearly match Sony and eat nearly 700M out of 850M pie.

And that even ignoring the fact that JP talks about market share in terms of units, while NVs average selling price is higher than AMDs.

medi01For "AMD's dgpu market share is at around 10%" to stand, Microsoft would need to nearly match Sony and eat nearly 700M out of 850M pie.

Only if you're assuming that dGPUs make up 10% of AMD's gaming revenue, not the whole market...

Whatever, not even sure what you're on about at this point except some weird fanboyism. I could care less about amd vs nvidia, but I am for competition, and hope that amd can get more competitive with nvidia in the dgpu space. Take care!

claesOnly if you're assuming that dGPUs make up 10% of AMD's gaming revenue, not the whole market...

Napkin math goes with roughly 1/10ths of 1.57 billion made by NV in the same quarter.

claeswhat you're on about at this point

Figures OBVIOUSLY don't add up.

Yeah you're right Su is lying to shareholders and the FEC there is some real conspiracy going on here

claesYeah you're right Su is lying to shareholders

Rrright.

Because JP can not be wrong, since you claimed so.

A company that is trying to GUESS what is going on.

Lisa Su is the CEO of AMD? But yes, I am confident that JPR has a better idea of what is going on with AMD than a random forum user. Not as confident as I am with AMD’s CEO knowing what’s going on with their company, but still more confident than I am in someone who for some reason chooses to believe that said CEO is lying to them or wouldn’t be sharing their conjecture as a huge victory for their company :shrug: