N3M3515I don't agree, on both times i remember saying that's fucked up.

I probably missed the news articles and the videos from big Youtube channels about Nvidia.

Can you point at some articles about Nvidia? I would love to see the titles, for example "Nvidia admits of keeping prices up to retain profit margins over 65%". Also I would love to see people's reaction. For example in TPU we are already at 7 pages. I wonder, did the article about Nvidia generated 2-3 pages of comments?

qubitAnd by keeping the prices of the GPUs high, their corresponding complete graphics cards remain high as the cost is passed on. Come on people, it's not a difficult concept.

And for the record, you should see how scathing my comments towards NVIDIA's sky high prices are, so I'm no fanboy here.

AMD CAN NOT KEEP PRICES UP. ONLY NVIDIA CAN KEEP PRICES UP.

AMD 8% market share . Nvidia 90% market share

AMD 40% profit margin . Nvidia over 60% profit margin

AMD prices. Almost all under MSRP, people are educated to avoid AMD GPUs . Nvidia prices. Almost all OVER MSRP, because people are educated to buy no matter the price

Why_MeNvidia's share of the gpu market will continue to grow due to AMD's pricing. consumer stupidity.

Fixed that for you. Because, let me ask you something.

If the company that controls 90% of the market and it's products are bought from everyone, DROPS prices, what whould you expect the company that controls 8% of the market and it's products are avoided almost from everyone will do?

When the next RTX 5090 comes at $2000 and AMD's top product is at $1200, don't forget to point your finger at AMD.



DAMN. I am reading some comments here and I wonder about the education in other countries.

john_AMD CAN NOT KEEP PRICES UP. ONLY NVIDIA CAN KEEP PRICES UP.

AMD 8% market share . Nvidia 90% market share

AMD 40% profit margin . Nvidia over 60% profit margin

AMD prices. Almost all under MSRP, people are educated to avoid AMD GPUs . Nvidia prices. Almost all OVER MSRP, because people are educated to buy no matter the price

Argue with the article, not me.

NV is leading the market both in sales\profit and also determine the 'way to act' to changes.
AMD just fallow them: 1- higher prices gen to gen (but not as much as NV). Noe they reduce price but the lunch MSRP fallow the higher price trend and
2- trying to control the market price\ adjust their loss by undersupply like NV does but to lesser extent.
I think that's what outrage people- to see that AMD behave much like NV at the fundamental level just with some adjustments due to it's size and power.

From AMD perspective thay doing the right thing and I support them for that move on the 'academic level' of how to behave economically in rough times.
But as a consumer this tactic go against me, at least in the short term.
If AMD will not do the necessary changes Thay might fall into a hole just like a decade ago.

All in all, accept that AMD will behave much like NV the stronger thay will be.
It's a two player poker game and you need to play your hand as best as you can. No room for 'nice guy' at that table.

qubitArgue with the article, not me.

YOU are the person that posted what I am quoting.

In any case by avoiding replying to my post and just blaming the article, it means that you know that I am right. You just afraid to admit it.

That makes you an Nvidia fanboy. You just try to hide it.

Dirt ChipI think that's what outrage people- to see that AMD behave much like NV at the fundamental level just with some adjustments due to it's size and power.

Nvidia sells at 65% profit margin and AMD at 40% profit margin. AMD can't lower prices, because Nvidia has far greater room to reduce it's prices. And considering that consumers are today educated/brainwashed/decided to pay for Nvidia hardware even if that Nvidia hardware is costing more while offering lower performance, it's clear that AMD CAN NOT lower prices. It wouldn't help them at all.

So, for example, even if AMD drops prices by 20%, Nvidia can also drop prices by 20% and still maintain a much higher profit margin than AMD. And people will rush to pay for the Nvidia card anyway, even if it is higher priced, so why should AMD drop prices? How do i know it? Well AMD did dropped prices and people still buy Nvidia hardware, even when Nvidia not only didn't dropped prioces, but they maintain higher than MSRP prices.
With consumers having turned their backs to AMD, AMD should think of it's profit margins to maintain profitable and keep offering us at least a competitive platform in CPUs. If ever consumers decide to stop worshiping Nvidia, AMD can reenter the retail market at any time. Until then, consumers should stop winning and pay the prices Nvidia demands.

john_YOU are the person that posted what I am quoting.

In any case by avoiding replying to my post and just blaming the article, it means that you know that I am right. You just afraid to admit it.

That makes you an Nvidia fanboy. You just try to hide it.

Don't be silly.

You're not worth giving a more detailed reply to, because you don't actually want a reasoned argument, more of a troll who will just argue round and round in circles, so I won't waste my time. You would have understood what I'm saying in my posts above otherwise.

qubitDon't be silly.

You're not worth giving a more detailed reply to, because you don't actually want a reasoned argument, more of a troll who will just argue round and round in circles, so I won't waste my time. You would have understood what I'm saying in my posts above otherwise.

And this reply proves my point. You are saying nothing. Fun part, while the articles everywhere are changing titles to avoid seen as misinformation targeting AMD, you keep promoting this misinformation with your posts. And when you are called about for spreading misinformation IN YOUR POSTS, you throw the blame at the author of the original article. You are the troll here. Trolls never give a direct answer, never explain their thinking. And you are doing exactly that.

Anyone looking at your posts here can see it.


Be good. Support Nvidia and Nvidia will support you.......definitely.....
The more you buy, the more you save.

john_Nvidia sells at 65% profit margin and AMD at 40% profit margin. AMD can't lower prices, because Nvidia has far greater room to reduce it's prices. And considering that consumers are today educated/brainwashed/decided to pay for Nvidia hardware even if that Nvidia hardware is costing more while offering lower performance, it's clear that AMD CAN NOT lower prices. It wouldn't help them at all.

So, for example, even if AMD drops prices by 20%, Nvidia can also drop prices by 20% and still maintain a much higher profit margin than AMD. And people will rush to pay for the Nvidia card anyway, even if it is higher priced, so why should AMD drop prices? How do i know it? Well AMD did dropped prices and people still buy Nvidia hardware, even when Nvidia not only didn't dropped prioces, but they maintain higher than MSRP prices.
With consumers having turned their backs to AMD, AMD should think of it's profit margins to maintain profitable and keep offering us at least a competitive platform in CPUs. If ever consumers decide to stop worshiping Nvidia, AMD can reenter the retail market at any time. Until then, consumers should stop winning and pay the prices Nvidia demands.

But AMD did reduce price, for both CPU (just now) and GPU in the last gen as well as many time before. And I think it will help them, especially with ZEN4 and lower GPU zone.

If AMD can't compete and be on top of NV or Intel preformance wise, they must be cheap enough to be a good option.

Consumer don't need to take care of AMD, or any other company in it's size. AMD do need to take care of it's balance and margins. If by doing so it come against some of it's consumer, so be it.
Just don't try to put blame on the consumer for their situation. It's none of anyone responsibility.

Dirt ChipBut AMD did reduce price, for both CPU (just now) and GPU in the last gen as well as many time before. And I think it will help them, especially with ZEN4 and lower GPU zone.

CPUs are seeing price redactions for a few months now, it's not "just now". GPUs are seeing price reductions for much longer. While in CPUs the problem remains because of the motherboard prices and DDR5 prices, in GPUs they should have seen an increase in market share, not decline. Because Nvidia didn't drop prices, or at least it didn't dropped them to even much MSRP prices. With the only exception being the ridiculously expensive models. But, the press and Youtubers that inform people about price reductions, where constantly downplayed AMD's price reductions, while focusing on price reductions on RTX 3090/Ti models. AMD was dropping prices, Nvidia was getting all the press coverage with titles "Nvidia dropped prices, now it is the time to buy". Of course, let me repeat my self here, the price reductions where meaningful only on the already expensive models. Even today 3000 series sells above MSRP.

If AMD can't compete and be on top of NV or Intel preformance wise, they must be cheap enough to be a good option.

AMD's GPUs are cheaper than Nvidia GPUs. In some cases they are both cheaper and better. But consumers prefer to buy Nvidia cards because they are convinced that no matter the price, Nvidia is the better brand. Trolls, posters, as we have seen in this thread also, journalists, youtubers, are doing a fine job into creating a picture for AMD where it's products are inferior and their drivers are junk. They are doing a fine job into destroying AMD's image, when at the same time they will do anything to cover up Nvidia's failures. In just last month everyone rush to hamper RX 6000 sales by creating fear about RX 6000 dying because of a driver. One repair shop in Germany makes a video about dead cards and while there where ZERO other reports about something similar, not to mention no one wondering if there was any credibility behind that video, ALL and I mean ALL rush to come out with titles "AMD's RX 6000 cards are dying", "AMD's driver kills 6000 series cards" and stuff. Now, AMD says that it is limiting supply of GPUs in the channel, because there are plenty in the market that consumers don't buy and what do we read left and right? That a company that only controls 8% of the market share, can manipulate the market and prices by limiting it's supply. Which is plain stupid.

Consumer don't need to take care of AMD, or any other company in it's size.

Consumers need to take care of themselves. I never said that consumers need to take care of AMD. Please don't make ridiculous assumptions about what I mean.

AMD do need to take care of it's balance and margins. If by doing so it come against some of it's consumer, so be it.

AMD needs to take care of it's balance and margins. But I do not see how a company that is doing continually price reductions all those last months, do it in a way that is against the consumer. Maybe you can explain this. You know what is against the consumer? Selling 2 years old cards above MSRP. Increasing prices across the board. Selling a heavily cut down version of a GPU at $1200, to promote the $1600 model. Trying to sell an xx60 model as an xx80 model at a price above that of the last xx80 model. In the end an xx70 is priced above last gen's xx80 model and everyone rushed to call it "consumer victory". Yes, consumers, you won. Now go and buy the xx70 model at $800 or more(see the difference when it is about Nvidia?). What else is bad for consumers? How about using fps scores with DLSS 3.0 vs DLSS 2.0 to convince people that they are buying a faster card.

Just don't try to put blame on the consumer for their situation. It's none of anyone responsibility.

In the CPU market Intel managed to turn things around with Alder Lake. It now sells models at all price points with more cores than AMD. In the past AMD managed to win the retail market by doing the same. Selling more cores/threads at all price points. Many of those cores, in Intel's case, are E cores, but consumers don't know it, don't know the difference, no one can blame them for not knowing the difference. Also Intel's platform by using DDR4 and with no upgrade path is much cheaper. So there it is completely understandable seeing people choosing the Intel platform. No one will blame the consumer there.
In GPUs the situation is different. People buy the RTX 3050 over the RX 6600. People pay $1600 for the RTX 4090. It's not totally their fault. Press, Youtubers, posters, trolls, will send consumers to buy Nvidia cards. "Buy the RTX 4090, it's the fastest card, better value than the RTX 4080". "Buy the RTX 3050, it's more expensive and slower, but it comes with more features and better drivers. The AMD cards are full of problems". So, in the GPU market I DO blame consumers. Because now we have a monopoly. And as long as Nvidia enjoys 90% of market share, prices generation after generation will be going up. And performance will see a stagnation (at probably under $700) the type we seen when Intel was selling quad cores year after year.

Some people seems to love stagnation and monopoly and love to blame the company that is their only chance to avoid it (because Intel is 2-4 years away from becoming an Nvidia direct competitor).

nexus290You do realise nvidia admitted to doing the same thing but wasnt reported here ... not that I recall .



Su’s admission comes after Nvidia chief financial officer Colette Kress also told investors it was taking a similar approach to gaming GPUs in November 2022.

“We have been under-shipping gaming at this time so that we can correct that inventory that is out in the channel,” said Kress.

As a result, prices of Nvidia’s RTX 30 series cards have remained relatively high despite the launch of the RTX 40 series late last year.


Also nvidia and AMD had no choice the oems were complaining that their inventory was too high , they just couldnt sell them at the prices they were asking .

Nvidia is doing exactly the same.
This doesn’t make AMD strategy any better from a customer point of view.

Update: Drew Prairie, AMD’s VP of communications, reached out with the following clarification: “We are shipping below consumption because there is too much inventory in the channel and that partners want to carry lower levels of inventory based on the demand they are seeing and their expectations for their business…the idea we are doing this to keep prices “elevated” isn’t accurate. Our client ASP was flat year over year, and that is due to mix of CPUs shipped.”

This article originally published with the headline “AMD is ‘undershipping’ chips to keep CPU, GPU prices elevated” but it has been updated to reflect AMD’s clarification.

Taken from this article
AMD is 'undershipping' chips to balance CPU, GPU supply | PCWorld

Here is also a comment on reddit:

True that. It's the same with everything. Take Oil for instance....countries slow the production to get the prices up or keep them up. No harm, no foul...it's their choice.
When it comes to CPU's however...the average person and fully made desktop vendor does not want the headaches they see associated with water cooling. So, that part of things is more an issue than 'enthusiasts' want to admit. That part is an unintended consequence of the race for the 'biggest/baddest/most heat producing' engine that powers everything...thus (among other possible reasons) the 65W CPUS which should put the average person who still wants high quality and fast desktops, back in the market.

Space Lynxthen AMD should have charged more in the old days, they could have, but they chose not to, they knew they were the budget king. and I respected them for that.

so I disagree with your statement.

But that only proves by your own words that its not mutual :) In one line you say you got sober and in the next you found a new color to cling to :)

There's a third option, stop going to extremes every time

qubitAnd by keeping the prices of the GPUs high, their corresponding complete graphics cards remain high as the cost is passed on. Come on people, it's not a difficult concept.

And for the record, you should see how scathing my comments towards NVIDIA's sky high prices are, so I'm no fanboy here.

You sure? There's quite a few topics where you say Nvidia is all you can possibly look at ;)

I get the sentiment though, I suffer from that notion too. I really want to buy AMD, but they make it hard. We both might carry a few % of fanboyism. I mean even today, I truly hate Nvidia's guts, but I can't bring myself to spend 600 eur on an RX 6800. Simply because the deal feels meh. BUT if that perf/VRAM/spec was available at Nvidia for 600... I'd have bought one... I caught myself thinking that a few times now, scrolling through the offers lately. But when I look at green, I get half the VRAM for that money :D

AMD are shooting themselves in the foot by doing this. They are at an all time low of market shares against nvidia (10% vs 90% and going down), they have the opportunity to sell their surplus at a lower price to get back some of these market shares but they dont.

Their GPUs are underperforming with RT which is becoming the new standard on games because why would game developpers use anything else than nvidia hardware when only 10% of their customers have AMD cards?

If they dont find a way to make their cards more competitive either by improving them or selling them at a lower price, they can close their GPU branch in 2 years.

LeavenfishTake Oil for instance....countries slow the production to get the prices up or keep them up.

If OPEC decides to slow production, prices will go up.
If UK decides to slow production, no one will notice.

With AMD holding only 8% of the market and consumers rushing to buy anything with an Nvidia logo on it, even if AMD stops producing GPUs for the retail market, prices will remain about the same.

Vayra86I really want to buy AMD, but they make it hard.

(just taking a pass from your post, not replying specifically to you) With about everyone blowing out of proportions anything negative about AMD, it's easy to feel like that. I mean, RX 6000 series was looking as a great option for people not wanting to throw over $700 for a new GPU, especially after those price reductions. Then we have the rumor about RX 6000 cards dying from a driver. Who wasn't affected? Even me here, posting like an AMD fanboy and knowing that this rumor was BS, I would be having second thoughts after that BS on buying an RX 6800/XT or RX 69x0XT. We can blame AMD for it's bad reputation, either because of drivers (the delay of new drivers for RX 6000 is their fault), or other mistakes (vapor chambers on RX 7900XT/X), but in general they are the favorite target for everyone (press, youtubers, individuals) online, which makes consumers see them as a bad choice, while this isn't really true, or at least not in the degree most people assume.

N3utroAMD are shooting themselves in the foot by doing this. They are at an all time low of market shares against nvidia (10% vs 90% and going down), they have the opportunity to sell their surplus at a lower price to get back some of these market shares but they dont.

AMD had lowered prices substantially those last months. Tech press and consumers ignore them and those price reductions. On the contrary they where celebrating the price reductions on... RTX 3090 Ti. Consumers keep buying Nvidia cards above MSRP, tech press and youtubers ignore AMD GPUs in their articles/videos. I was looking at Jayz's latest video. He was talking about the price reduction of Intel's A750, comparing it with the RTX 3060 and never mentioning the existence of AMD models at the same price points.

AMD is a multi billion company, they should find a solution themselves how to fix things, because those last years in GPUs they are trying to compete in a hostile market. Everyone is against them. But what else can they do? They are already selling at much lower profit margin than Nvidia. Sell at cost? Sell at a loss?

N3utroTheir GPUs are underperforming with RT which is becoming the new standard on games because why would game developpers use anything else than nvidia hardware when only 10% of their customers have AMD cards?

I have been called an Nvidia shill for screaming about RT performance on RX 7000.

N3utroIf they dont find a way to make their cards more competitive either by improving them or selling them at a lower price, they can close their GPU branch in 2 years.

They should do that. Focus on servers, sell to OEMs, let consumers suffer Nvidia's pricing and have Youtubers and tech sites suffer a reduction of viewers/readers, because who wants to keep viewing/reading about new products from ONE GPU manufacturer?

Vayra86You sure? There's quite a few topics where you say Nvidia is all you can possibly look at ;)

I get the sentiment though, I suffer from that notion too. I really want to buy AMD, but they make it hard. We both might carry a few % of fanboyism. I mean even today, I truly hate Nvidia's guts, but I can't bring myself to spend 600 eur on an RX 6800. Simply because the deal feels meh. BUT if that perf/VRAM/spec was available at Nvidia for 600... I'd have bought one... I caught myself thinking that a few times now, scrolling through the offers lately. But when I look at green, I get half the VRAM for that money :D

It's ok, there's no conflict in what I'm saying. :)

Yes, NVIDIA make better performing graphics cards, TPU reviews show this, but I'm pretty scathing about their prices in several posts and I refuse to buy cards with melting connectors, even if they were reasonably priced - that's a really bad design fault which should trigger a recall. How NVIDIA get away with selling these defective cards I don't know. It's quite easy to see what the problem is, too. They're pushing a ton more power through smaller conductors, placed closer together. The opposite should have happened, then it would have been ok.

I'm definitely no fanboy of any brand, please believe me on that one.

john_AMD 8% market share . Nvidia 90% market share

Bollocks.

1.6B gaming revenue (consoles + GPUs) for Crimson Red
1.57B gaming revenue from gaming GPU business for Filthy Green

Now, AMD's 1.6B includes about 5-7 million console APUs. At around $100 for a 300mm2-ish 7nm chip (with nothing else) it makes AMD GPU revenue share at 30-40% give or take.

And that's in terms of $$$.

For last gen GPUs, looking at mindfactory.de, AMD outsells green.

Vayra86I get the sentiment though, I suffer from that notion too. I really want to buy AMD, but they make it hard. We both might carry a few % of fanboyism. I mean even today, I truly hate Nvidia's guts, but I can't bring myself to spend 600 eur on an RX 6800. Simply because the deal feels meh. BUT if that perf/VRAM/spec was available at Nvidia for 600... I'd have bought one... I caught myself thinking that a few times now, scrolling through the offers lately. But when I look at green, I get half the VRAM for that money

Your comparison is... peculiar.
6800XT costs 650-ish Euro.
Which is about 20 Euro less than 3070Ti.

Which, besides having less VRAM, is a whole tier slower.

Anyhow, people tend to stick with the brand. Although, I've never heard about sticking with the brand one hates, but oh well, maybe you hate AMD even more.

N3utroRT which is becoming the new standard on games

"drops fps by 40-50%" is a hard feature to ignore.

N3utroto make their cards more competitive either by improving them

It is Feb 2023 and beating 3090Ti at RT is nowhere competitive enough.

medi01Bollocks.

1.6B gaming revenue (consoles + GPUs) for Crimson Red
1.57B gaming revenue from gaming GPU business for Filthy Green

Now, AMD's 1.6B includes about 5-7 million console APUs. At around $100 for a 300mm2-ish 7nm chip (with nothing else) it makes AMD GPU revenue share at 30-40% give or take.

And that's in terms of $$$.

For last gen GPUs, looking at mindfactory.de, AMD outsells green.


Your comparison is... peculiar.
6800XT costs 650-ish Euro.
Which is about 20 Euro less than 3070Ti.

Which, besides having less VRAM, is a whole tier slower.

Anyhow, people tend to stick with the brand. Although, I've never heard about sticking with the brand one hates, but oh well, maybe you hate AMD even more.


"drops fps by 40-50%" is a hard feature to ignore.


It is Feb 2023 and beating 3090Ti at RT is nowhere competitive enough.

RTX 3090 Ti MSRP: $2000
RTX 4080 MSRP: $1200
RTX 4090 MSRP: $1600

Just wanted to apologize to everyone here, I wasn't thinking rationally before. I still don't agree with this type of business practice, but also I realize I overreacted initially. My all AMD system has been rock solid stable for me and great bang for buck overall, I can't complain. Time to just shut up and enjoy some gaming, anyways, apologies everyone and I wish you all a good week.

medi01Bollocks.

1.6B gaming revenue (consoles + GPUs) for Crimson Red
1.57B gaming revenue from gaming GPU business for Filthy Green

Now, AMD's 1.6B includes about 5-7 million console APUs. At around $100 for a 300mm2-ish 7nm chip (with nothing else) it makes AMD GPU revenue share at 30-40% give or take.

And that's in terms of $$$.

For last gen GPUs, looking at mindfactory.de, AMD outsells green.

I don't know if it is bollocks. JPR says it's 8% and JPR is not some Youtuber making numbers out of thin air. Steam hardware statistics also show AMD at 15%, but in that 15% are also APUs included, but more importantly, we see new Nvidia hardware getting into those charts, AMD's not. If RTX 4070 Ti, that is the newest model in the market, gets in Steam charts before RX 7900XT/X cards, then it's obvious that AMD isn't really selling and consoles is what keeps it into having a meaningful market share in X86 gaming systems. As for Mindfactory. I think Germans where always people who knew what to buy and weren't that much motivated by brands and sentiment. I mean, 35 years ago Germany was the country where Atari ST/e was selling the best, because it was a much cheaper alternative to PCs and MACs for productivity and Amiga for gaming, offering everything needed to do the job properly. I like Mindfactory numbers, but I don't think they are representative of the rest of the world. More like "best case scenario" for AMD sales.

No horse in this race, but last gen amd does not out sell last gen nvidia at Mindfactory (unless you count the 6400, which I guess counts if you’re being so honest and including including consoles, but then may as well as include igpus, at which point Intel is probably the winner)

www.notebookcheck.net/Divisive-RTX-4070-Ti-reportedly-leads-the-GPU-sales-race-on-Mindfactory.682638.0.html

medi01Your comparison is... peculiar.
6800XT costs 650-ish Euro.
Which is about 20 Euro less than 3070Ti.

Which, besides having less VRAM, is a whole tier slower.

Anyhow, people tend to stick with the brand. Although, I've never heard about sticking with the brand one hates, but oh well, maybe you hate AMD even more.

Oh?

Here's a little sample size from my locale - note that 649 6800XT is a unicorn, most go >700.
But it still doesn't compare favorably to a 4070ti... You're looking at a >30% performance win at a 30% price increase then; with better featureset and perf/w
I'm ignoring the 3070ti altogether, and 3080 as well. Too hungry and too low on vram - Ampere is just a shite gen simple as. Going by this list... Arc it is? :D

I'm still sitting on my money for now... this is just a no go; whether Im spending 600 or 900. An 6800XT launched for 649 USD, go figure. I'm defo not paying that in 2023 - I'd have to drop to 10 FPS on my 1080 before I'll get that desperate.

john_I don't know if it is bollocks. JPR says it's 8% and JPR is not some Youtuber making numbers out of thin air. Steam hardware statistics also show AMD at 15%, but in that 15% are also APUs included, but more importantly, we see new Nvidia hardware getting into those charts, AMD's not. If RTX 4070 Ti, that is the newest model in the market, gets in Steam charts before RX 7900XT/X cards, then it's obvious that AMD isn't really selling and consoles is what keeps it into having a meaningful market share in X86 gaming systems. As for Mindfactory. I think Germans where always people who knew what to buy and weren't that much motivated by brands and sentiment. I mean, 35 years ago Germany was the country where Atari ST/e was selling the best, because it was a much cheaper alternative to PCs and MACs for productivity and Amiga for gaming, offering everything needed to do the job properly. I like Mindfactory numbers, but I don't think they are representative of the rest of the world. More like "best case scenario" for AMD sales.

Interesting analysis, and probably correct. Nice.

Let's see what Dr Cutress says..

Cutress says he's surprised no one in the media reached out to a financial analyst/expert to understand what these words used by Su meant.

What a novel idea right?

So AMD is going nGreedy leather jacket guy way...
Who would have thought... /sarcasm

Prima.VeraSo AMD is going nGreedy leather jacket guy way...
Who would have thought... /sarcasm

Agreed. As stated before I do not like Dr. Su. He business ethics just plain sucks. Again just close the wallet up on the AM5 platform for a few more months. As posted by myself and others NORMAL people are not buying into it, manly because they can not afford to upgrade an entire system. So no. Close up your wallet and let AMD and the rest of the companies that the prices are too high for what you get.