@evernessince
except opinions dont equal facts.

complaining about quality of a product/service a company offers, requires me to at least use it, before making any comments about it,
the same way i cant comment on a +30K suite for a flight from A to B, just because i was sitting in economy on the same flight, and have an opinion about it...

Waldorf@evernessince
except opinions dont equal facts.

Correct and that applies across the board regardless of whether you own the product or not. I'm not sure where you are going with this unless you are implying that owning a product makes your opinion fact. It's actually harder for owners of a product to make a more objective opinion due to the tendency of people to defend their purchases. There's an argument to be made that outside observers who didn't purchases a product who research reviews and then provide their opinions will provide a more balanced and nuaced take on the average due to them being free of psychological effects of purchasing and owning a product.

Waldorfcomplaining about quality of a product/service a company offers, requires me to at least use it, before making any comments about it,
the same way i cant comment on a +30K suite for a flight from A to B, just because i was sitting in economy on the same flight, and have an opinion about it...

This is a bad example for multiple reasons:

1) In this instance people aren't complaining about a specific product as in your example, they are complaining about ASUS's policy and RMA process as a whole. It's the same process all ASUS products share so it's irrelevant what tier they are buying at.

2) If ford recalls it's cars for a brake malfunction it's safe to say you didn't need to own said product in order to say there was / is an issue. The same logic applies here, particularly because ASUS has publicly came out and apologized and committed to changes. That's a fact. That's not something a company does unless it is absolutely guilty. They are also being investigated by the FTC. GN has provided objective facts by documenting their RMA case and demonstrated that ASUS has RMA problems. They have done this on multiple occasions and continue to sample their RMA process. Everyone else sharing their RMA horror stories is just further evidence to that end, it's called observable evidence in case you aren't aware. There is more than enough publically available facts to come to the conclusion that ASUS has policy issues if ASUS's own admission is not enough evidence in and of itself. Whether that be this year's or last year's ASUS incidents. You might have more of an argument if ASUS had dug it's heels in and denied but they didn't and their past history lends further credence to the already provided facts.

It's absolutely silly to condition whether someone's speech is valuable or not based on whether they owned a product/service when there is publicly available facts and observable evidence. In the current digital age you always have access to some amount of data.

In addition, there's not even a guarantee that an owner a product will even run into an issue to begin with so what's to say that their experience would be more valuable to the discussion? The answer is it wouldn't. Much like this thread, owners of a product saying they didn't have the issue and therefore there isn't an issue does nothing to advance the conversation. In fact it's worse than a person who went out of their way to do at least basic research whereas the owner of said product is simply using their ownership as a shield from their own ignorance without having to look at any of the information presented.

This entire thread essentially boils down to people who are for positive ASUS change and people who are attempting to gatekeep or ignore anything outside their own experience. That the arguments against aren't actually engaging in a legitimate debate on the facts presented and instead rely on logically fallacies says all we need to know. This isn't a conversation that advances any worthwhile conversation, convincing these people to not defend their purchases or past purchase almost always leads them to dig in their heals more, much like @Cifu

never said whos/what past experience is more valid, but i have seen too many times where ppl are regurgitating info, without having used the product (as in hw)
or a purchased a service (not talking about rma).

still doesnt make the opinion of someone like me, using asus for almost 20y for not just my builds, with zero issues on hw, nor rma (i killed aboard, was repaired for free),
less valid than those that have issues, just because of how asus handled stuff.

Waldorfstill doesnt make the opinion of someone like me, using asus for almost 20y for not just my builds, with zero issues on hw, nor rma (i killed aboard, was repaired for free),
less valid than those that have issues, just because of how asus handled stuff.

I'd refer you to this portion of my comment:

evernessinceIn addition, there's not even a guarantee that an owner a product will even run into an issue to begin with so what's to say that their experience would be more valuable to the discussion? The answer is it wouldn't. Much like this thread, owners of a product saying they didn't have the issue and therefore there isn't an issue does nothing to advance the conversation. In fact it's worse than a person who went out of their way to do at least basic research whereas the owner of said product is simply using their ownership as a shield from their own ignorance without having to look at any of the information presented.

I know you aren't saying it isn't an issue but you have avoided actually debating the facts. You have leaned on your ownership of ASUS products, of which provides essentially nothing to the conversation as that does not directly translate to experience with their RMA service. They are two entirely separate things, one can have ASUS products while having zero experience with their customer service and RMA. In addition, even when a person does have a positive RMA experience it's still not a valid reason to discredit everyone else over. I'd probably ask when your one and only RMA experience was to see if it's even relevant time-wise but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter much.

I've had multiple X370, X470, X570, and X670 motherboards and the fact that I've had zero issues does nothing to detract from the fact that AMD and it's board partners has had multiple problems with those respective platforms over the years. I used to buy EVGA cards and had multiple good RMA experiences but I'm not going to go around gatekeeping people because I feel the need to protect my purchases. I want these companies to keep on their toes because if they aren't it's me and every other customer that gets screwed.

Vayra86Well I do believe Gigabyte has been found guilty on almost all counts there, not too long ago.


Glad to see our moderators have restraint like any normal human :)

To be honest they are all guilty of it at some point in time.

evernessincehad multiple good RMA experiences but I'm not going to go around gatekeeping people because I feel the need to protect my purchases.

Multiple good RMA? What are you doing to your hardware?

I have to question if your experience was because of your own doing, or in fact a hardware defect lol.. I kid.. sorta.

Seems to me that people would more inclined to recommend hardware that they have had a good, or multiple good experiences with.

Looking back in history, all of these companies have had to eat dirt because of their doing. Not just Asus.

chrcolukFair chance of that, its unlikely any of GN's undercover RMAs are going outside of North America.

Not GN's but there are European tech tubers:

And this was "advanced" RMA with cross shipping.

TomorrowNot GN's but there are European tech tubers:

And this was "advanced" RMA with cross shipping.

Already posted page 1 post #3

@evernessince
except some here make it sound like anyone with a positive experience, be it hw or service, has a less valid opinion.

the board i killed (cheap psu unable to handle gpu oc) was repaired and returned at no cost within 2 weeks, and that was 2006.

in 2015 the 32in moni i had showed a defective hdmi port (intermittent signal loss), asus offered to fix it, and after i complained about shipping/cost,
provided me with free shipping both ways.

so short of the horrible bios layout/controls, i have no problem buying stuff from asus, nor will i tell ppl that want asus parts for their build,
not to get them, no matter how many times ppl have issue with a handheld or their service.

this has ZERO to do with brand loyalty or being not so smart on choosing stuff, the same way i will continue to use corsair ram that everyone recommends to stay away from,
but will avoid Gb boards like the plague, as its a joke when a +300$ board cant run a Gskill trident kit, on the QVL, past jedec.

freeagentI don't know, you tell me?

Does it feel good to bash something you don't know anything about?

To me you are one of those sheep jumping off the cliff. I don't bash companies that I don't use.

All I use are Asus boards, no problems, years, decades of 24/7 service, no need for RMA.

So your sample size of one, and who knows how many products you really have, means that no one, ever, has had to do a RMA, or had problems with Asus? The last 2 motherboards i had to RMA would beg to differ, especially the one i had to send back twice.

Dr_b_So your sample size of one, and who knows how many products you really have, means that no one, ever, has had to do a RMA, or had problems with Asus? The last 2 motherboards i had to RMA would beg to differ, especially the one i had to send back twice.

Sample size of one? I have (had) quite a few. And no problems. Never had to contact support. My friends haven't had problems either. I have a few friends.

Dr_b_The last 2 motherboards i had to RMA would beg to differ

What kind of ram were you using.. chances are that might have had something to do with it.

Dr. DroThis is still not enough. I am not seeing anything regarding sending new products back to people who have issues with new products.

What happened in this video must NEVER happen again, EVER

There is no excuse and if I had to deal with this, I would never purchase an ASUS product ever again.

This is why I never bother with warranty stuff. I'll just get new and send back the faulty one for a full refund. Yeah it isn't right and may screw over the next person, but honestly, if companies don't want to properly provide support for their stuff, then they deserve it imo.

ChaitanyaGood to know my last Shitsus motherboard was M2N32

That actually was particularly not a bad motherboard, to be honest. This and M3A32-MVP Deluxe, vere gems, among the pile of trash, Asus was farting everywhere.

This thread would of course will lead to people that defend both sides. It could be as simple as the area of service you are in. I know that in the GTA where I live in Canada, Asus were the worst customer service company out of all of them. I had the same experience that the Youtube video had but I am also confident that the X370 Prime from Asus was one the worst boards for Gremlins when AM4 launched. When I sent my first board in, I forgot to re-install the standoffs and Asus sent me an invoice for $125 for each of them.

It is sad because the performance of Asus boards historically was second to none in my opinion. I was blessed with the ownership of the Asus 990FX Tuf when I was on AM3 and things like the external SATA port(s) made owning an external drive (for my old 3.5 HDDS) a joy. That board was so solid that the area took a lighting strike and I only lost 1 DIMM. I still use Asus today but gone are the days of $200 being top end MBs so when I bought my Asus X670E E Strix is was between that and the MSI X670E Carbon. I need a board like that for my storage (X399 user) array that has everything from 3.0-5.0 NVME, RAID 0 SSD and Mass storage SSD. I still buy Asus but only TUF and Strix as no Prime and Crosshair and up are just more money for Asus bragging. Like their small keyboard with a 1.5 inch screen for $499 US from Computex.

I hope this GN thing does bring a change to Asus but only time will tell.

@kapone32 There's nothing to defend, imho. Asus' internal regulations let this happen. They cannot/will not see what the end user sees. That's all there is to it.

freeagentMultiple good RMA? What are you doing to your hardware?

Overall RMA rates were very low. I've built thousands of systems as I used to run my own shop. Even if I just counted the parts I've purchased for my own use, it would be 4-5x times the average PC user if not more and I've been at this awhile. Multiple RMAs in my case apparently isn't as statistically significant as you seem to be assuming. I've only ever had to RMA one bad CPU, fixed a few that could have been RMA'd due to Intel TIM drying out and causing terrible temps but it's easier to just delid and repaste CPUs with TIM. I've personally had precicely 2 bad EVGA GPUs, one 1080 Ti and one 780 Ti (that's personally, not including any business RMAs).

Mind you a single person can have bad luck and have to RMA the same product multiple times or it could just be a bad product. I forget the model name but I used to have a notriously bad seagate HDD model (talking decades ago) that was known to have an extremely high failure rate that I had to RMA multiple times. I also had a single OCZ mouse that required something like 7 RMAs. Never bought another OCZ product after that. 7 times is just a product quality issue at that point and I'm not remotely rough with my gear. Both well known to have issues. Outliers of course, those are the only products that I can recall that I had major issues with. Overall my RMA rate was about 1.3%, which was below the industry average.

freeagentI have to question if your experience was because of your own doing, or in fact a hardware defect lol.. I kid.. sorta.

You are correct that you should have thread banned yourself earlier, ad hominem attacks from a staff member are completely uncalled for.

It's a conveninet excuse to avoid actually discussing the facts presented.

This might be media drama, and viewership harvesting. But it is still a good and strong way, to treat the costumer support, and address the issues. Something, Asus would not do willingly, ever, until being pressured by billion $$$ fines, which is impossible anyway. Even if this GN move was a bait, it still a win for them, and consumers.
The reason is simple. Once the company got big and the more clients/customers it will get, the more it will avoid resposibility, and to resolve issues. Not really because the can't get rid of all client mass, but because it will eat their margins. It's much easier to set an AI assitant, which will aumatically discard any support requests.

Sadly, there's not movement outside the US. Actually, what GN and other shown in their research and investigation, is just less then 1% horrid, of what these companies and their partner distributors do int many other parts of the world.

evernessinceGN was flooded with emails regarding RMA issues with ASUS. Doesn't sound like a few to me.

What GN got, is actually the very tip, the edge of an iceberg. The real amount of people addressing issues to the Asus support, and being discarded, might be hundred times more. These are only people, watching their content. There are many other countries, and many other people inside US, who don't even know about GN, but had the issues with Asus products, and did not submit to their database. Most likely many of these people already got burnt hard, and decided to accept the loss, and put the Asus part as past in their lives.

evernessinceYou are correct that you should have thread banned yourself earlier, ad hominem attacks from a staff member are completely uncalled for.

It's a conveninet excuse to avoid actually discussing the facts presented.

Now now don’t be bitter. Just because I am a Mod here does not mean that I am not a human.

Everyone knows Asus RMA sucks, it always has. This is not news. For someone who has been in it as long as you claim to be, this problem is well over 20 years old.

freeagentSample size of one? I have (had) quite a few. And no problems. Never had to contact support. My friends haven't had problems either. I have a few friends.


What kind of ram were you using.. chances are that might have had something to do with it.

yes you are personally 1 individual, despite how many products you own, you are N=1 or a sample size of one. Its like bragging "well I didn't COVID, so its all a hoax to make people get vaccines"

No, RAM has had nothing to do with the reason behind my RMAs at least, first one was a completely dead chipset, the other was only 8 PCIe lanes were working out of 16. Asus didn't replace the board initially and just said no trouble found, and made me send it back to them at my own expense despite promising to give me a shipping label. They did however fix both issues eventually, but i got back used boards that were not in the pristine condition mine were, but they worked. Am I still going to buy Asus? Sure, i like the BIOS. Am i happy with how they handle diagnosing problems or dealing with people? No.

freeagentNow now don’t be bitter. Just because I am a Mod here does not mean that I am not a human.

Everyone knows Asus RMA sucks, it always has. This is not news. For someone who has been in it as long as you claim to be, this problem is well over 20 years old.

I'm not bitter, I'm disappointed in TPU when we have a mod trolling in the comments.

theglazeDeath by SKU

Asus lists 259 mobos for just 'current-gen' sockets (AM5, LGA1700), of which 85% are consumer models ROG, TUF, PRIME, ProArt.

That's absurd. Marketing department has been running the show for too long. Stamping out PCB like limited production T-shirts.

Adding unnecessary complexity that has clearly overwhelmed internal processes (like inventory, subcon management, assembly). That ultimately leads into inept customer service because it's working with bad product.

Time to cut the new offerings in half, Asus, and take it easy on yourself.

Where are you seeing 259? I'm seeing only 65 boards with DDR5 support on their site. Still a lot, but that includes AMD, Intel, consumer and workstation boards.

My buddy told me ROG = ripping off gamers lol

hopefully they take the bad publicity serious and really try to improve...............

Vayra86Well I do believe Gigabyte has been found guilty on almost all counts there, not too long ago.

This. Gigabyte is the other bogeyman of CS / RMA.

I cannot tell you how many horror stories I've read across multiple forums about them over the years.
Their signature move is to hand someone back a defective replacement, then say tough crap when they try again (or maybe the 3rd time).

If anyone deserves to be next on the GN segment of shame, it's them.

freeagentno need for RMA.

So you can't comment on that either, then? Just following the logic.

mechtechMy buddy told me ROG = ripping off gamers lol

Yeah no shit, the branding is a dead giveaway you don't even need to buy something to get that fact straight from the ads. Its premium plastic. Always has been... There is literally nothing that makes it unique other than ridiculous design elements.