Recession + R700 = -40%

I expected a reduction but not that much.

yea not many people buy $500 cards when there is a recession.

that is still a huge revenue drop. I agree with IRA, i didnt expect this. They gotta get their shit together, start introing new competitive products, etc. Thet didnt have their own boards for i7 and god knows when will we see new boards for AM3 with DDR3 support.

Its a major global recession where value for money is king, ATI currently holds the ace in that regard, better bang for buck (price/performance) over sheer processing power is what people look for.

I don't know where people get that ATi has a better bang for the buck:



HD4870x2 6% better Performance than the GTX280=23% worse Performance Per $
HD4870 10% worse performance than the 9800GX2=Same Performance Per $
HD4870 same performance as the GTX260=9% worse Performance Per $
HD4850 same performance as the 9800GTX=Same Price Per $
HD4830 1% better Performance than the 9800GT=35% Worse Performance Per $
HD4670 1% worse Performance than the 9600GSO=6% Worse Performance Per $

For every one of ATi's top 5 cards, there is an nVidia card that either:

1.) Give very similar performance at a much better price.
2.) Gives better performance at the same Performance Per $.
3.) Gives the same performance at a lower price.
or
4.) Give better performance at the same price.

So drop the ATi gives better bang for the buck BS. ATi's numbers are likely to be just as bad, the recession is hurting everyone.

newtekie1I don't know where people get that ATi has a better bang for the buck:



HD4870x2 6% better Performance than the GTX280=23% worse Performance Per $
HD4870 10% worse performance than the 9800GX2=Same Performance Per $
HD4870 same performance as the GTX260=9% worse Performance Per $
HD4850 same performance as the 9800GTX=Same Price Per $
HD4830 1% better Performance than the 9800GT=35% Worse Performance Per $
HD4670 1% worse Performance than the 9600GSO=6% Worse Performance Per $

For ever one of ATi's top 5 cards, there is an nVidia card that either:

1.) Give very similar performance at a much better price.
2.) Gives better performance at the same Performance Per $.
3.) Gives the same performance at a lower price.
or
4.) Give better performance at the same price.

So drop the ATi gives better bang for the buck BS. ATi's numbers are likely to be just as bad, the recession is hurting everyone.

Those price/performance figures are total BS, not entirely unexpected coming from you. ;) :laugh:

I think this is good news, Nvidia has been trying to artificially increase the prices of its products since the 8800gt and now the recession has hit that strategy has seemingly has backfired.

insiderThose price/performance figures are total BS, not entirely unexpected coming from you. ;) :laugh:

I didn't make the graphs there Slick...:shadedshu

Both companies have constantly been dropping prices over the past quarter. One day ATi might offer the better bang for the buck, and the next nVidia might. To say ATi has consistnatly offered the best bang for the buck over the past quater is plain wrong.

Even if you look at it today. The GTX280 still offers a much better bang for the buck, as does the GTX295 actually, compared to the HD4870x2. However, the HD4870 512MB offers a better bang for the buck compared to the GTX260. The prices are constantly changing, and the best bang for the buck changes daily, it even varies from performance level to performance level.

Well i bet most of the market is confused what to actually buy when picking a NV and just get a a ATI.

One thing for sure NV have so many cards on the market is gives me sore eye's. Lifes simple with ATI.

The cards were overpriced and undermade..
servers them right.

Just a point Newtekie, over here in the UK the HD4850 is signifantly cheaper than the 9800GTX (well it was when I was looking for components) so you can't say things like that and expect it to be true since the vast majority of other countries seem to be cheaper for ATI (there was a thread about it a while ago)

crazy pyroJust a point Newtekie, over here in the UK the HD4850 is signifantly cheaper than the 9800GTX (well it was when I was looking for components) so you can't say things like that and expect it to be true since the vast majority of other countries seem to be cheaper for ATI (there was a thread about it a while ago)

The graphs I used were made by W1z...a German resident...:toast:

It all goes to the point that the prices fluctuate so quickly based on so many factures, that you can't say one company consistnatly offers the best bang for the buck.

It has gotten to the point where one company lowers the price, so the other lowers theirs, so the other lowers theirs, so the other lowers theirs...and so on. Its competition, and I love it.

newtekie1The graphs I used were made by W1z...a German resident...:toast:

Euro and the doller are completely different. The UK is known for it's rip off prices..

AsRockEuro and the doller are completely different. The UK is known for it's rip off prices..

very true, prolly due to them having their own currency.

AsRockWell i bet most of the market is confused what to actually buy when picking a NV and just get a a ATI.

One thing for sure NV have so many cards on the market is gives me sore eye's. Lifes simple with ATI.

4550
4650
4830
4850
4850x2
4870
4870x2

GTX260
GTX260 216
GTX265
GTX280
GTX285
GTX295

-

Binge4830
4850
4850x2
4870
4870 1gb
4870x2


9800gt
9800gtx
9800gtx+
9800gx2
GTX260
GTX260 216
GTX260 55nm
GTX280
GTX285
GTX295

This is not the way to put it , who wants to spend 500$ on a graphic card will look for best perf. and doesn't really care about price/perf. ratio.
The battle is where ATI 4850 and 4830 are and for Nvidia 8800gt/9800gt and 9800GTX/GTX+ and of course lower end wich might be even bigger in profits than this.
Comparing 4850 with 9800GTX's the GTX is about equal in perf. overall with the ati card but the ati card is a bit cheaper and is more cheaper to produce by integrators than Nvidia product and that's why some of them build ati cards now.
Then , the new 4830 is again at about the same price in most cases but you can get it cheaper than 9800GT , it's faster than the Nvidia card and offers better price/perf..
Now if we go up a little in an enthusiast segment wich might not be so profitable but still important for them (ati,nvidia) is the 4870 against gtx260 , it's cheaper and at stock speeds equal overall , of course if you overclock the Nvidia card is better but for people who stay stock again ATI gives better price/perf.
This is applied for all times , whenever Nvidia launched a product in some segments ATI eighter launch better ones or reduced price , best example now is the 4870x2 wich can go as low as 399$ on newegg and GTX295 is 509$ , they could've stayed with the same price but they acted imediatly with price cuts.
Those graphs made by wizzard where valid at the time of the review for a few graphics card in that table but by now prices are reduced times changed , they change every month maybe even faster.
You know 4870 is cheaper than gtx260 , you know 4850 is cheaper than 9800GTX/gtx+ , you know 4830 is cheaper than 9800GT , what is the conclusion ? want to make a VS now and make the Nvidia cards faster ? you know perf. varies from game to game and overall they are almost the same in perf..
I'm glad Nvidia is doing so bad , they got cocky and treated poorly the costumers , high prices when they where at the top and ATI couldn't do anything , total ignorance to people's problems with the hardware faults of G80 GPU (that is memory leak that is still not solved even today) , renaming the same product again and again and again.

You just said, what I said about 7 posts up.

leonard_222003high prices when they where at the top and ATI couldn't do anything

Yeah, because ATi hasn't been doing the same thing with the HD4870x2...:shadedshu

I am not surprised with this at all, think about it. With the high quality of previous cards in the previous quarters, no-one needed to buy a better card from nVidia.

Valdez-

Originally Posted by Binge View Post

4830
4850
4850x2
4870
4870 1gb
4870x2


9800gt
9800gtx
9800gtx+
9800gx2
GTX260
GTX260 216
GTX260 55nm
GTX280
GTX285
GTX295

Their's the
9600
9400

And theirs more this month right ?.

EDIT: to be fair there is a few lower ATI ones too.

WhiteLotusI am not surprised with this at all, think about it. With the high quality of previous cards in the previous quarters, no-one needed to buy a better card from nVidia.

That is a very enteresting point...I finally upgraded two weeks ago from 2 8800GTS's (first run 640's) to a GTX280. I found those 8800's to be very reliable and excellent cards until recently. They still work, it's that a number of games were bringing them to their knees..(games>:nutkick:..my cards) (FYI)As far as pricing goes, looking at my passt Newegg invoices, I paid 309.98 for a 7900GT then an extra 130.00+ for the "step-up back in 06..:rolleyes:. then another $442.11 for a single GTS in Jan of 07..:eek:. I paid 411.98 this Jan for the GTX280 (note, the 3 prices included tax and shipping)that gives substancial performance gains in all games..:).. Thank GOD for competition,, If there was no ATI or ANY other card manufacturer out there, I could've been paying a thousand dollars for this GTX instead of low 400's. On a side note regarding well built products, I still have a 7600gt in my gateway that is stiill going strong.:toast:

Binge4550
4650
4830
4850
4850x2
4870
4870x2

GTX260
GTX260 216
GTX265
GTX280
GTX285
GTX295

more like

3850
3870
4650
2670
4830
4850
4870
4850x2
4870x2

8800gso
8800gt
8800gts
9400gt
9600gso (8800gso)
9600gt
9800gt(8800gt)
9800gtx (renamed 8800gts 512mb)
9800gtx+ (die shrunk 8800gts 512)
9800gx2(eol but some sites still sell them)
GT100
GT120
GT130
GTX260
GTX260 216
GTX265
GTX280
GTX285
GTX295

this is what he ment, its INSAIN, and like 1/2 those cards are just rebadges of older models......

and Im SURE the flawed chips have added to this problem for them, the g84/g86/g92 all have a flaw in the prosess used to make the chips(to much lead)

them having to replace chips for OEM's(card makers and laptop makers like dell and apple) has to be taking a large toll......

W1zz uses newegg prices on those reiews.


Currently a 260 196shader is only $189 after MIR, making it the performance for dollar leader, but a 1Gb 4850 is at $159 after MIR, making it the choice for higher resolution gaming/ GTA4.

i know my buddy in AUS can get ATI stuff cheaper then Nvidia stuff in same perf range......

no real point in argueing with newtekie about this, hes dead set that nvidia is the better choice.........

newtekie1However, the HD4870 512MB offers a better bang for the buck compared to the GTX260.

Rebo&Zootyno real point in argueing with newtekie about this, hes dead set that nvidia is the better choice.........

:nutkick::slap::laugh:

Do you actually read the posts, or just ramble on about how everyone else is the fanboy?