So what was that about heat and noise issues then? As I've posted in another news topic there are other factors to consider (such as failure rates) then just heat and noise. :laugh:

eidairaman1I hope you decided to RMA directly back to sapphire than trying to RMA to the etailer, Ive learned there is a higher chance of you getting another junk board from the etailer than going thru the Manufacturer.

I looked into that with the first one but came to this page on their website. So I gave up and went through the retailer (eBuyer). Seriously though, eBuyer's RMA process is that quick and easy that I'd probably use them anyway.

i asked the hardware.fr guys about this

hardware.fr article authorsales number for GTX 280: 368
they were sold betwen march and august so actually between june and august for the GTX 280
we got number with more recent sales and the return rate didn't drop
so it's not linked to the first batches are something

definitely not just a single batch

pretty nice article I think basing it on fail rate they could have been more in depth

gumptyI looked into that with the first one but came to this page on their website. So I gave up and went through the retailer (eBuyer). Seriously though, eBuyer's RMA process is that quick and easy that I'd probably use them anyway.

www.sapphiretech.com/us/company/contactsapphire.php

i had to use that info there to get RMA request, only problem is it appears they only have service centers directly in US and Canada, other than that I believe you may have to send in a Support Ticket for those not in those Nations, which I guess then the Sapphire HQ in Hong Kong handles the RMAs Directly for being outside of US or Canada. Two years ago I sent in a board and got a brandspankin new one but that was thru the US office (althonmicro) Processing was very quick as of paperwork, just took some time to ship the board as it winds up going to Hong Kong anyway.

I believe those 4850 statistics.
My cards are boiling temp almost all the time and still running!

Even though the single slot cooler sucks, the cards dont seem to mind!

ShogoXTI believe those 4850 statistics.
My cards are boiling temp almost all the time and still running!

Even though the single slot cooler sucks, the cards dont seem to mind!

I dont like those temps at all. While it might work TODAY, you can bet the half-life of those cards is a fraction of a card operating at room temperatures.

Just like nV is having all those laptop GPU failures, I'm quite sure that *just after* your warranty runs out, these super-heated desktop GPUs will fail too.

I wonder how having an all-nVidia OEM (Point of View) with such high failure rates skewed the results. I doubt there's such a marked difference in reference designs from the two companies that there would be this discrepancy.



Interesting though, I haven't really seen reports of GPU failure in this frequency at all, maybe people just return them instead of asking on forums nowadays.



Also, does this count actual hardware failures or just RMAs? It could be that the extremely power hungry 280 was returned most often because it was most likely to be out of spec with the intended PC's power supply.

DaJMastaI wonder how having an all-nVidia OEM (Point of View) with such high failure rates skewed the results. I doubt there's such a marked difference in reference designs from the two companies that there would be this discrepancy.

Good Point, it is what it is.

DaJMastaInteresting though, I haven't really seen reports of GPU failure in this frequency at all, maybe people just return them instead of asking on forums nowadays.

This is very common IMO. Not everyone has access to a forum that can help them.

DaJMastaAlso, does this count actual hardware failures or just RMAs? It could be that the extremely power hungry 280 was returned most often because it was most likely to be out of spec with the intended PC's power supply.

This is a good question. Perhaps I missed it as well but it would be nice to know if this is rate of return are based on some outstanding issue (unless there is a better translation). In any case IMO I really don't believe that many folk (if at all) are returning cards because they:
-didn't have the appropriate PSU
-changed their mind (wouldn't it just go back to the store...)
-etc
However, it would be nice to get some clarity on the return rates.

hardware.fr article author] sales number for GTX 280: 368 they were sold betwen march and august so actually between june and august for the GTX 280 we got number with more recent sales and the return rate didn't drop so it's not linked to the first batches are something[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=W1zzardi asked the hardware.fr guys about this
definitely not just a single batch

Hmh, there were GTX 280 cards that hit 105C in FurMark, guessing there still are. Those would make the failure rate go up. Could it just be bad contact with core and IHS or something more serious? Weird the less than half failure with GTX 260 :confused:

Anyways I have an ASUS GTX 280, so lowest and highest (single core) failure rate compined, maybe I'm ok :)

edit: maybe I'm not..
If you look more closely at the less reliable models, you’ll see two cards at over 10% sold at 100 plus: the Gigabyte GV-RX26P5H, a Radeon HD 2600 passive, is at 14.1%, compared to 10.2% for the ASUSTeK ENGTX280/HTDP/1G.

Oh well if it was going to fail it would have done it by now, 89.2% is still pretty good odds, I'd bet on them.

ATi & Sapphire FTW! :toast: I have only bought Sapphire when buying ATi cards. I feel good. :D

I would like to see another chart with more vendors, like PaliT , eVGA and BFG. I bet PaliT has the lowest RMA of all.

eidairaman1i had to use that info there to get RMA request, only problem is it appears they only have service centers directly in US and Canada ... ... ... just took some time to ship the board as it winds up going to Hong Kong anyway.

Maybe it's a country by country policy for returns. Perhaps we have to go through the retailer first, here in the UK because of some consumer law. Which begs the question ... what happens if the retailer goes bust? Sapphire would still have to honour the warranty anyway.

eBuyer does their own testing on site so the turnaround, from lodging the RMA, to getting the replacement is as little as one week. Plus free collection & delivery. :D

lemonadesodaI dont like those temps at all. While it might work TODAY, you can bet the half-life of those cards is a fraction of a card operating at room temperatures.

Just like nV is having all those laptop GPU failures, I'm quite sure that *just after* your warranty runs out, these super-heated desktop GPUs will fail too.

Sometimes I think I've got a split personality and your the other half. Exactly what I was thinking recently.

ati = buy the cheapest.

What is the cheapest ?

Sapphire?

Whats some of the best ?

Sapphire?

What is good for ATI? : XFX HIS ASUS Sapphire.

40 ati cards, none defective.
20 nvidia.
3 rma'd (notice GF3 and GF4) pissed me off, 400£ gfx, burns up first week, no serial code on print card.
No rma.

Piss of nvidia after that, unless ati gives me a bad time, i see no reason for me to switch.

*My opinion over the years, nvidia seemed to have that quality stamp on them, but they're like league that audi is in, good reputation breaks down! (not as bad as audi tho)
**Note audi's running in norway, temps here and level of salt at the winter might affect the cars.

but i think the point is made, and dunno if people agree to nvidia have a better quality stamp than ati, by opinions, but not by stats.

gumptyMaybe it's a country by country policy for returns. Perhaps we have to go through the retailer first, here in the UK because of some consumer law. Which begs the question ... what happens if the retailer goes bust? Sapphire would still have to honour the warranty anyway.

eBuyer does their own testing on site so the turnaround, from lodging the RMA, to getting the replacement is as little as one week. Plus free collection & delivery. :D

whats odd is my card i believe was still under warranty at the time with Tiger Direct, i just RMAd directly to Althonmicro anyway and got a new board directly from Sapphire since Althon just handles the shipping distro.

My 4850s are from Visiontek, I dont think il be using them by the time their warranty is up.

I sort of wonder what their definition of defective is.

My previous card was an XFX 8800gt, it came with a fan that had the control wires clipped (stuck on 100%). I would consider that "defective", but it was actually done on purpose by XFX because they didn't want the cards overheating... I talked with customer support and they said they were just offering to ship variable fans/heatsinks out with installation instructions.

It may not seem that big of deal, but for someone who has put money into making their case quiet (silent fans, etc.) discovering the new GPU you bought has a fan running on constant 100% is not a pretty thing. ;)

DaJMastaAlso, does this count actual hardware failures or just RMAs? It could be that the extremely power hungry 280 was returned most often because it was most likely to be out of spec with the intended PC's power supply.

If that were to be the case, then the 4870X2 should also have suffered the same but it doesnt.

EastCoasthandle-didn't have the appropriate PSU

- It happens much more than what you think. With high-end cards always, as low-end can almost always run everywhere. There's a lot of people that actually know nothing about the cards and try to use beast cards on 350w OEM PSUs. Not having enough PCIe connectors can be an issue too. When I had another PSU I had to buy a 4-pin-to-PPCIe connector from Germany, because no one had one here, it's stupid, but most people will just return the card if in that situation I suppose, I don't think those cards were taken into account though. But it is posible. It would be nice to see an aclaration. All the rates seem too high IMO even the lower ones: 2% the lowest?

-changed their mind (wouldn't it just go back to the store...)

It does happen a lot too, specially on some big stores. At least here in Spain, but I suppose that in the rest of Europe/World too, stores are forced to accept returns in the next few days of a purchase, with no exception and without any required reason. I know with certainty that a person that used to buy in the store I worked on, used that "legal flaw" to test/benchmark many cards. He rotated the stores every time, for obvious reasons. The law is to protect the consumer but with such people is the seller who becomes the victim.

Another very frequent reason when I worked in the store was because of the AGP/PCIe thing. There were countless devolutions/exchanges for that reason. And I always asked about it like 3-4 times before the buyers left, but more than half of them returned soon, most of them with the box opened. It's irrelevant to the topic, but is just one more thing that happens. Only God knows how many more things there could be.

GPUCafeIf that were to be the case, then the 4870X2 should also have suffered the same but it doesnt.

Probably, but not necessarily. Dual GPU has apparetly some sort of "pro" aura for many iliterates and most just stay away because of that. Fear the unknown... :wtf: That's what I have learnt from many comments in the CSS chat. I do play in french servers sometimes, and that kind of comments happen.

Well you'd expect larger dice to have a higher failure rate anyway? So it makes sense that the gtx 280 has the highest.

Similarly dual gpu cards should have AT LEAST double the rate of single gpu versions?

DarkMatter- It happens much more than what you think. With high-end cards always, as low-end can almost always run everywhere. There's a lot of people that actually know nothing about the cards and try to use beast cards on 350w OEM PSUs. Not having enough PCIe connectors can be an issue too. When I had another PSU I had to buy a 4-pin-to-PPCIe connector from Germany, because no one had one here, it's stupid, but most people will just return the card if in that situation I suppose, I don't think those cards were taken into account though. But it is posible. It would be nice to see an aclaration. All the rates seem too high IMO even the lower ones: 2% the lowest?



It does happen a lot too, specially on some big stores. At least here in Spain, but I suppose that in the rest of Europe/World too, stores are forced to accept devolutions in the next few days of a purchase, with no exception and without any required reason. I know with certainty that a person that used to buy in the store I worked on, used that "legal flaw" to test/benchmark many cards. He rotated the stores every time, for obvious reasons. The law is to protect the consumer but with such people is the seller who becomes the victim.

Another very frequent reason when I worked in the store was because of the AGP/PCIe thing. There were countless devolutions/exchanges for that reason. And I always asked about it like 3-4 times before the buyers left, but more than half of them returned soon, most of them with the box opened. It's irrelevant to the topic, but is just one more thing that happens. Only God knows how many more things there could be.

meh...
That's a whole lot of speculation and not much else. :shadedshu

YAY!! Go ASUS!!:rockout:

EastCoasthandlemeh...
That's a whole lot of speculation and not much else. :shadedshu

That's not speculation at all. I'm not implying that this is what happens in this case, but I can guaratee you that those things happen a lot. I don't know if I'm being clear, the things happen, but are probably not affecting the results.