Intel "Ice Lake" IPC Best-Case a Massive 40% Uplift Over "Skylake," 18% on Average

[londiste]

7NM doesn't really help Intel with what they're struggling with, Performance.
It should be worse in fact...

Intel does not need help with performance. Skylake (and all the minor modifications to it) are competitive if not faster than Zen. Sunny Cove based CPUs seem to be competitive enough with Zen2 based on early information and the architectural changes in both that seem to mirror each other.

What Intel needs help with is power efficiency that 10nm/7nm does bring to the table. Smaller dies may be helpful or harmful but we do not know that yet for sure.

Especially when you take in to account the complete butchering of Intel CPU performance over the last year. You would need a lot more than a 40% improvement to make up for the loss of Hyperthreading, as well as the Spectre and Meltdown "fixes".
Some Intel CPU's will have lost more than 50% of their performance under some circumstances, so a poultry 18% (average) improvement on average is simply not enough.

Intel CPUs with Meltdown and L1TF fixed in hardware are already shipping. No doubt things like MDS will get fixes soon given Intel has been aware of these for almost a year now. It takes about year or year and a half to get fixed CPUs into mass production and out on shelves if this is done in a hurry.

Intel has other plans. At least thats what it told its investors this year.

This is an old roadmap slide. Newer one shows 10nm quickly replaced with 10+nm and then with 7nm less than a year after. Product roadmap at the same time only has 10nm CPUs for mobile by end of this year and for servers early next year. Desktop does not have anything at 10nm on roadmap.

Those numbers are questionable to me. Ryzen 2600X (4250MHz) - 480 points in CPU-Z test, Ryzen 3600X (4500MHz) - 609 points. That's ~28% increase. I wish it was truth though..

There is about 6% from faster clocks, making the increase by IPC raise 19%. That is feasible enough even if it would mean CPU-Z bench is pretty much the best case scenario for Zen2 (benefitting directly from massive L3 cache maybe).

 

[phill]

I'll wait for the reviews and see what comes As pretty and nice as the slides are, I'll believe it when we see the reviews

 

[Xzibit]

This is an old roadmap slide. Newer one shows 10nm quickly replaced with 10+nm and then with 7nm less than a year after. Product roadmap at the same time only has 10nm CPUs for mobile by end of this year and for servers early next year. Desktop does not have anything at 10nm on roadmap.

Intel investor day was May 8, 2019. Your confusing Intel with the Dell Leak Roadmap.

 

[medi01]

18% over four years is pretty terrible, especially if you consider how much performance was lost because of security mitigations.

I wonder what is used as a base here.

 

[Fabio]

my 8700k has a 565 single core score for cpu z, now at 5,2 magically rise at 635?

 

[delshay]

I can bet by the year 2023, 3nm will be here as 5nm is more or less already here.

 

[Manu_PT]

This is so funny!!

AMD shows the most biased and misleading benchmarks -> "yes!! Intel is done!! AMD will conquer the world!!"

Intel has leaked benchmarks where 5,2 ghz = the new 3,6ghz, wich is amazimg -> "lol intel. Lol this is fake. Lol only 18% improvement. Lol this is never coming to desktop"

Seriously you guys are annoying. If this IPC improvements are true, oh boy, they gonna rip AMD apart on mobile and they will on desktop once they cam do it. I am for sure gonna be waiting.

 

[Imsochobo]

This is so funny!!

AMD shows the most biased and misleading benchmarks -> "yes!! Intel is done!! AMD will conquer the world!!"

Intel has leaked benchmarks where 5,2 ghz = the new 3,6ghz, wich is amazimg -> "lol intel. Lol this is fake. Lol only 18% improvement. Lol this is never coming to desktop"

Seriously you guys are annoying. If this IPC improvements are true, oh boy, they gonna rip AMD apart on mobile and they will on desktop once they cam do it. I am for sure gonna be waiting.

I expect Ice lake to either dominate or be highly competitive in laptops, but Intel is quite doomed on desktop(because of 10nm performance).

Intel does not need help with performance. Skylake (and all the minor modifications to it) are competitive if not faster than Zen. Sunny Cove based CPUs seem to be competitive enough with Zen2 based on early information and the architectural changes in both that seem to mirror each other.

What Intel needs help with is power efficiency that 10nm/7nm does bring to the table. Smaller dies may be helpful or harmful but we do not know that yet for sure.
Intel CPUs with Meltdown and L1TF fixed in hardware are already shipping. No doubt things like MDS will get fixes soon given Intel has been aware of these for almost a year now. It takes about year or year and a half to get fixed CPUs into mass production and out on shelves if this is done in a hurry.
This is an old roadmap slide. Newer one shows 10nm quickly replaced with 10+nm and then with 7nm less than a year after. Product roadmap at the same time only has 10nm CPUs for mobile by end of this year and for servers early next year. Desktop does not have anything at 10nm on roadmap.
There is about 6% from faster clocks, making the increase by IPC raise 19%. That is feasible enough even if it would mean CPU-Z bench is pretty much the best case scenario for Zen2 (benefitting directly from massive L3 cache maybe).

Intel needs PERFORMANCE on 10NM, performance on nodes means frequency!
Skylake, CFL and sunny cove is 14NM , 10NM = low clocks hence the reason why they will be on 14NM for desktop because performance is LOWER for 10nm!.
On the bright side for Intel!
I see no issues with Intel with 10nm for laptops, quite the contrary if they can get the chips out the door and I see no way amd's design will create big wins in the 7-25W space Intel wins, 25->45W Amd wins.

I may be mistaken by amd on low power laptops.

Bottom Line, Intel will struggle till 2021 on the cpu side but carried by low power cpu's and datacenter for AVX512 implementations, but I'm optimistic about their gpu and I hope they are back in 2021 with promising new designs

 

[londiste]

I wonder what is used as a base here.

Skylake.

Intel needs PERFORMANCE on 10NM, performance on nodes means frequency!
Skylake, CFL and sunny cove is 14NM , 10NM = low clocks hence the reason why they will be on 14NM for desktop because performance is LOWER for 10nm!.
On the bright side for Intel!

Intel has a slide where they admitted 10nm does not clock as high as 14nm(++) does. Their approach to that problem is two-fold. This shortcoming is one of the big reasons for skipping desktop SKUs at 10nm for now. The other thing is architectural changes for increased IPC in Sunny Cove cores - larger caches, improved frontend etc. I am not even sure 10nm on desktop would have a noticeable performance problem, the problem is much more likely in the size and yield side of Intel's 10nm chips.

This is not that different from what AMD is doing by the way. AMD does not have the frequency problem as Zen - or rather, GF/TSMC 14nm/12nm process - never clocked that high. At the same time Zen2 architectural changes have a lot in common with Sunny Cove changes.

 

[Xaled]

This is so funny!!

AMD shows the most biased and misleading benchmarks -> "yes!! Intel is done!! AMD will conquer the world!!"

Intel has leaked benchmarks where 5,2 ghz = the new 3,6ghz, wich is amazimg -> "lol intel. Lol this is fake. Lol only 18% improvement. Lol this is never coming to desktop"

Seriously you guys are annoying. If this IPC improvements are true, oh boy, they gonna rip AMD apart on mobile and they will on desktop once they cam do it. I am for sure gonna be waiting.

Yes there is a huge difference between "Showing" official slide and "leaking". İf these leaks are true it'd be amazing indeed. But if not would Intel be punished? No the Chinese leaker would be blamed

 

[londiste]

Intel investor day was May 8, 2019. Your confusing Intel with the Dell Leak Roadmap.

This slide was also in investor meeting (via Anandtech):

as well as this one:

10nm++ will exist but effectively will be overcome by 7nm in 2021. The second slide's "10nm Client Systems on Shelf for 2019 Holiday Season" matches Dell leak's mobile 10nm - and there was a passing mention of mobile in Intel's meeting - as well as servers in 1H'20 matches what I said above (and Dell's leak).

Whether Intel will be able to make their roadmap a reality is a separate discussion but they are quite clear about their plans.

 

[Vya Domus]

Intel has other plans. At least thats what it told its investors this year.

Intel will be using Arizona and Ireland for 7nm. Expansion at those fabs is expected to be completed late 2021 for Arizona, Ireland est sometime in 2022.

I too love a graph with no numbers marked on the y axis. This is hilariously bad.

 

[HwGeek]

Indeed, since we know that new 10nm for mobile at 15W can only clock upto 3.9~4.1Ghz while current 8th gen Wiskey 15W U models boosts upto 4.8Ghz, even with IPC uplift it's doesn't look so great.

 

[medi01]

Skylake.

With or without security patches.

 

[londiste]

With or without security patches.

Without.
Keep in mind though that both compared CPUs are Intel's and security patches' performance hit is definitely bigger on Skylake with mitigations enabled.

Yeah, Intel's testing without security mitigations is shady.

On the other hand, these new cores definitely have fixes for Meltdown/L1TF in hardware and at least hardware-assisted mitigations for other Spectre-likes. And they are comparing these against Skylake which has none of that. When this is tested without security mitigations, Skylake should get a bigger boost than Ice Lake, making the uplift from new cores even bigger when taking security mitigations into account.

 

[InVasMani]

Nothing more than Intel (unofficially of course) trying to steal thunder from AMD. Especially when you take in to account the complete butchering of Intel CPU performance over the last DECADE. You would need a lot more than a 40% improvement to make up for the loss of Hyperthreading, as well as the Spectre and Meltdown "fixes".

Some Intel CPU's will have lost more than 50% of their performance under some circumstances, so a poultry 18% (average) improvement on average is simply not enough.

Too little, too late Intel.

Fixed for clarity.

 

[Octopuss]

Ice Lake (microarchitecture)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ice Lake is Intel's codename for the 10th generation Intel Core processors based on the new Sunny Cove microarchitecture.

WTF????

someone explain this shit to me, because I am completely perplexed.

 

[ZoneDymo]

This is so funny!!

AMD shows the most biased and misleading benchmarks -> "yes!! Intel is done!! AMD will conquer the world!!"

Intel has leaked benchmarks where 5,2 ghz = the new 3,6ghz, wich is amazimg -> "lol intel. Lol this is fake. Lol only 18% improvement. Lol this is never coming to desktop"

Seriously you guys are annoying. If this IPC improvements are true, oh boy, they gonna rip AMD apart on mobile and they will on desktop once they cam do it. I am for sure gonna be waiting.

yes it is amazing.... hence fake.... and what misleading/biased benchmarks has AMD shown (also biased...can anything be biased when its representing itself...what?)
Salty Intel fanboy is salty seemingly.

also if nothing else, I would think you would be pissed off knowing Intel was comfortably sitting on that "5.2 - 3.6 ghz" improvement but the bosses saying "no dont push that out now, spread if over many years of full price products, more money for us".
Its would be only now that Intel is being pushed by some competition that they get off their lazy greedy selfish behinds.

 

[Manu_PT]

yes it is amazing.... hence fake.... and what misleading/biased benchmarks has AMD shown (also biased...can anything be biased when its representing itself...what?)
Salty Intel fanboy is salty seemingly.

also if nothing else, I would think you would be pissed off knowing Intel was comfortably sitting on that "5.2 - 3.6 ghz" improvement but the bosses saying "no dont push that out now, spread if over many years of full price products, more money for us".
Its would be only now that Intel is being pushed by some competition that they get off their lazy greedy selfish behinds.

Sure, only AMD leaks are accurate. Ive seen the picture now

As for the question about AMd misleading benchmarks, ask Steve Burke from GamersNexus.

 

[londiste]

Ice Lake (microarchitecture)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ice Lake is Intel's codename for the 10th generation Intel Core processors based on the new Sunny Cove microarchitecture.
WTF????
someone explain this shit to me, because I am completely perplexed.

Ice Lake is CPU, Sunny Cove is the core.

 

[Bwaze]

Ice Lake (microarchitecture)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ice Lake is Intel's codename for the 10th generation Intel Core processors based on the new Sunny Cove microarchitecture.

WTF????

someone explain this shit to me, because I am completely perplexed.

You can look at it this way. Sunny Cove is the core architecture. Ice Lake denotes architecture (Sunny Cove) + process (10 nm).

 

[Enterprise24]

my 8700k has a 565 single core score for cpu z, now at 5,2 magically rise at 635?

635 for 5.2 seem legit. Here is mine at 5.4

 

[ArchStupid]

7NM doesn't really help Intel with what they're struggling with, Performance.
It should be worse in fact...

Intel is struggling with performance..?

 

[ZoneDymo]

Sure, only AMD leaks are accurate. Ive seen the picture now

As for the question about AMd misleading benchmarks, ask Steve Burke from GamersNexus.

No Im asking you, you brought it up, you made the claim so the burden of proof lies with you Im afraid.

And no, AMD leaks are pretty much never accurate, thats the reason why this is probably fake as well...
In fact Im kinda convinced AMD leaks are done by anti AMD people to get people hyped up about improbable products so they are disappointed when the final products dont live up to that hype, hence attempting to damage the image.

For example the 5ghz claim, or that Ryzen 3000 would all be one tier difference, like this nonsense: https://eteknix-eteknixltd.netdna-s...ads/2019/03/AMD-Ryzen-3000-Singapore-Leak.jpg

 

[Frick]

This is so funny!!

AMD shows the most biased and misleading benchmarks -> "yes!! Intel is done!! AMD will conquer the world!!"

Intel has leaked benchmarks where 5,2 ghz = the new 3,6ghz, wich is amazimg -> "lol intel. Lol this is fake. Lol only 18% improvement. Lol this is never coming to desktop"

Seriously you guys are annoying. If this IPC improvements are true, oh boy, they gonna rip AMD apart on mobile and they will on desktop once they cam do it. I am for sure gonna be waiting.

The rhethoric is the same from both, ugh, "sides". Entertaining in some ways, but sad when you realize it's just how the world works now.