ASUS Seemingly Drops Support for AMD Ryzen 5000 Series CPUs on X470 Motherboards, the Company Responds

[demian_vi]

Now let's see how many truly did that

Thing is... the real life situation doesn't differ all that much for the vast majority of people, which is why ASUS does this the way it does it. They know the market that is really eager for that compatibility is possibly small enough to ignore OR the benefit in sales doesn't weigh up to the cost for them.

Its not the first time. And its going to be a recurring thing.

I'm not saying AMD is in any way at fault here for setting up their sockets as they do. Kudos to them for TRYING. Its just that for numerous reasons most people still see themselves buying new boards every gen or other gen. And this is especially true if you're not upgrading every gen which most people don't do to begin with.

I do like how you all rush to the defense though, lol



This. And its falls straight into the trend we know of them, way too loose agreements with industry partners, too much leeway that gets abused time and time again. Whether its timely support, availability, time to market, or general PR and communication. Something is always amiss.

Not good for perception. And definitely, most definitely this is an AMD problem more than anyone else's. Its not just ASUS either, every partner will be making up the balance here, every single time with every new release. Its a cost/benefit scenario for them and AMD should eradicate that thought to begin with: it should be 'you sell our product, damn well make sure you support them for the full lifecycle or you're simply not a partner anymore'.




Note that the time between the release of Zen and Zen 3 is a mere 2,5 ~3 years now. One could question the practical use of switching hardware yearly or even bi-yearly, especially with the baby steps we're getting gen to gen.

You not saying AMD is in any way at fault but with your very first message you are mocking them instead of Asus. You are just biased and it shows. Every untrue statement and reality mention doesn't hide that.

 

[Vayra86]

You not saying AMD is in any way at fault but with your very first message you are mocking them instead of Asus. You are just biased and it shows. Every untrue statement and reality mention doesn't hide that.

Okay buddy, I'm mocking them. If you're unbiased, it shouldn't matter to you, should it? See how easy that is? Stop the calimero attitude please, its sad to see. if you disagree, you disagree, and that is just fine.

Reality mentions matter though. The reality is that ASUS is apparently finding the audacity to hold support so people buy new boards. So apparently, the market push hasn't been strong enough to force them to support everything throughout the way AMD wants it.

The market is never wrong, numbers never lie. ASUS looked at the numbers and made up a balance, and then made a business decision. The wrong one? We'll see. You've all been vocal about not buying ASUS boards now, will it be enough?

Do you see where I'm coming from now?

 

[Hellfire]

Note that the time between the release of Zen and Zen 3 is a mere 2,5 ~3 years now. One could question the practical use of switching hardware yearly or even bi-yearly, especially with the baby steps we're getting gen to gen.

I'd argue the generational changes between each gen are more than baby. 48% increase in speed between two generations (c20)... hardly babysteps.

3 slides sure but the rest continue in the same way....
source:

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

My 2700x is in an Asus X470-F, and while I planned on getting a new motherboard anyway so I could have PCIe 4.0, I'm DEFINITELY not going to buy an Asus X570/B550 board now. I really want to try Asrock since I like how they are the most "experimental (putting Thunderbolt3 on their x570 mITX board for example)...

 

[Xaled]

Babystep my Ass (*Asus)...

 

[phill]

Well if this is true then I'll be extremely disappointed in them for deciding to go this route and I'd go to blame Asus for this rather than AMD.

Asrock might be my go to board for AMD systems in the future then....

 

[okbuddy]

it's fine, who told you to buy those most expensive mobo? it's not us problem

 

[AusWolf]

I understand why quite so many of you are upset, but let's be honest: it was kind of obvious that this would happen with one manufacturer or another right from the start.

Buy our new motherboards so we can make more money, eh ?

That, plus we won't have to pay our engineers to develop new BIOSes for older motherboards.

 

[Rares]

As a Asus CH7 owner I'm very disappointed about this decision. I will NEVER, EVER buy Asus whatever...

 

[Chrispy_]

The only fault here lies with Asus for using the smallest, cheapest, most underspecced FLASH ROM they could find for a $250 motherboard. Even some cheap MSI B450 boards have 32GB ROMs for future CPU model support.

ASUS are becoming the Nvidia/Apple of the DIY PC building scene; High prices for average products that they enforce built-in-obsolescence on.

Vote with your wallet people, Asrock and Gigabyte make great hardware too and MSI would get a green light if they weren't morally/ethically in deep doodoo at the moment for 'shenanigans'.

 

[TheLostSwede]

PEG gen4 works as intended on top two slots on Crosshair VII Hero (both M.2 and x16 PEG). Signal coherence is nominal. This is a dick move to say the least.

I don't think you understand the complexities of this. PCIe standards have to be certified with the PCI SIG and this means that you need to meet certain standards. For one, this wasn't possible across all X470 and B450 boards. Even the best X470 boards apparently couldn't quite meet the PCIe 4.0 spec and at 99% compliance, you're sadly not compliant. This would've mean version 2.x boards, but it seems like this idea was dropped in favour of selling X570 boards, both from the board makers side and AMDs side. And how do you know it worked as "intended" on that board? Yes, there was a beta UEFI that enabled PCIe 4.0, but was it really working as intended?
Just saying it's a dick move without understanding the underlaying reasons, is a dick move imho.

And now rest of motherboard vendors likely do the same announcement, no support for ryzen 5000 on x470 top boards. Probably now it's good time to sell x470 when they worth something.

Or not. Gigabyte is apparently planning support for most, if not all of their X470 and B450 boards at some point after AMD releases the correct AGESA for them.

All other manufacturers are silent on this subject. MSI will probably support their 400 series chipsets as they are legally liable after the promises they made. Others who knows - but you can bet they will not invest a lot to make that compatibily easy if they will do it.

Because they haven't gotten the final AGESA from AMD yet and until they have it, they can't actually promise anything, hence why it's been quiet.

AMD will officially give AGESA binary update for B450 and X470 chipset to all manufacturers. There is no AMD fault here, AMD keep their promises. Now it's up to the manufacturers if they want cash grab or long term loyalty.

In all fairness though, AMD only agreed to this after a few hundred thousand virtual pitchforks came out on the internet, as initially they weren't going to support those platforms. Without the backlash they got, this wouldn't even be a thing.

The only fault here lies with Asus for using the smallest, cheapest, most underspecced FLASH ROM they could find for a $250 motherboard. Even some cheap MSI B450 boards have 32GB ROMs for future CPU model support.

ASUS are becoming the Nvidia/Apple of the DIY PC building scene; High prices for average products that they enforce built-in-obsolescence on.

Vote with your wallet people, Asrock and Gigabyte make great hardware too and MSI would get a green light if they weren't morally/ethically in deep doodoo at the moment for 'shenanigans'.

32GB ROM? I think you need to check your specs...
It's 32MB at most.

 

[Chrispy_]

I don't think you understand the complexities of this. PCIe standards have to be certified with the PCI SIG and this means that you need to meet certain standards. For one, this wasn't possible across all X470 and B450 boards. Even the best X470 boards apparently couldn't quite meet the PCIe 4.0 spec and at 99% compliance, you're sadly not compliant. This would've mean version 2.x boards, but it seems like this idea was dropped in favour of selling X570 boards, both from the board makers side and AMDs side. And how do you know it worked as "intended" on that board? Yes, there was a beta UEFI that enabled PCIe 4.0, but was it really working as intended?
Just saying it's a dick move without understanding the underlaying reasons, is a dick move imho.


Or not. Gigabyte is apparently planning support for most, if not all of their X470 and B450 boards at some point after AMD releases the correct AGESA for them.


Because they haven't gotten the final AGESA from AMD yet and until they have it, they can't actually promise anything, hence why it's been quiet.


In all fairness though, AMD only agreed to this after a few hundred thousand virtual pitchforks came out on the internet, as initially they weren't going to support those platforms. Without the backlash they got, this wouldn't even be a thing.


32GB ROM? I think you need to check your specs...
It's 32MB at most.

Typo, Captain Pedantic, but yes.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Typo, Captain Pedantic, but yes.

That's a pretty major typo...
It's hardly being pedantic, as it makes your post factually incorrect, despite the rest of it being more or less right.

 

[Dave65]

Quit buying Asus long ago, you should too.

 

[Caring1]

does seem kind of crappy for a mobo that was released just 2.5 years ago and many people bought those up until the x570 in July of last year. that said if you are not happy with whatever cpu that you are using in that mobo then I would think that you would also want to upgrade to a more modern platform. just sell your mobo and cpu together which is what i do when I upgrade.

Good on you Rockafeller.

 

[Haile Selassie]

I don't think you understand the complexities of this. PCIe standards have to be certified with the PCI SIG and this means that you need to meet certain standards. For one, this wasn't possible across all X470 and B450 boards. Even the best X470 boards apparently couldn't quite meet the PCIe 4.0 spec and at 99% compliance, you're sadly not compliant. This would've mean version 2.x boards, but it seems like this idea was dropped in favour of selling X570 boards, both from the board makers side and AMDs side. And how do you know it worked as "intended" on that board? Yes, there was a beta UEFI that enabled PCIe 4.0, but was it really working as intended?
Just saying it's a dick move without understanding the underlaying reasons, is a dick move imho.

You're putting words in my mouth. C7H has official support for PEG gen4 on the two top most slots as the signal attenuation is within standard limits (-28dB).

But to put it more to point, PEG gen4 support has nothing to do with ASUS removing support for next gen CPUs, even though the X570 and X470 motherboards use exactly the same size EEPROM chip (256Mbit). The chip is pin compatible, the ucode is compatible as well since A520, B550 and X470 are more or less the same MCU with certain functionality disabled. Remember that storage and PEG gen4 controller is in CPU, not in PCH. The only major difference between X470 and B550 boards is the more strict signal attenuation tolerance for PEG gen4 - but again, this has nothing to do with new CPU support as PEG gen4 can easily be disabled on all X470 motheboards when used with 5000 series CPU. By default.

So please, refrain from calling people names and defend the shitty company.

And, if we're precise, PCI SIG doesn't qualify the motherboards, they are merely the top governing body for the PCI standard. Like JEDEC for DRAM.

It's like saying USB IF qualifies every USB product. Get real.

 

[Nater]

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TW2Bmk

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor ($429.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 280 72.8 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming ATX AM4 Motherboard ($299.00 @ Walmart)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 512 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($64.98 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PNY Quadro RTX 4000 8 GB Video Card ($879.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case ($88.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.99 @ Best Buy)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($139.88 @ Other World Computing)
Total: $2152.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-10-13 09:01 EDT-0400

Literally just dialed in this build yesterday to order it all up when the 5900X drops.
(3900X and RTX 4000 are just placeholders, gonna wait for RTX A4000)

Have an ROG Strix B450-F at home too...disappointing. Was going to upgrade that CPU too.

 

[TheLostSwede]

You're putting words in my mouth. C7H has official support for PEG gen4 on the two top most slots as the signal attenuation is within standard limits (-28dB).

But to put it more to point, PEG gen4 support has nothing to do with ASUS removing support for next gen CPUs, even though the X570 and X470 motherboards use exactly the same size EEPROM chip (256Mbit). The chip is pin compatible, the ucode is compatible as well since A520, B550 and X470 are more or less the same MCU with certain functionality disabled. Remember that storage and PEG gen4 controller is in CPU, not in PCH. The only major difference between X470 and B550 boards is the more strict signal attenuation tolerance for PEG gen4 - but again, this has nothing to do with new CPU support as PEG gen4 can easily be disabled on all X470 motheboards when used with 5000 series CPU. By default.

So please, refrain from calling people names and defend the shitty company.

And, if we're precise, PCI SIG doesn't qualify the motherboards, they are merely the top governing body for the PCI standard. Like JEDEC for DRAM.

It's like saying USB IF qualifies every USB product. Get real.

No it doesn't, as no X470 or B450 board has official PCIe 4.0 support, end of discussion.
It was not possible for any of the board to pass the PCI SIG certification, so AMD removed support in the AGESA.
The PCI SIG does test all PCIe implementations, as if you want to be able to sell your product as PCIe compliant, you have to go through the certification.
That's also why there's a searchable database of all approved products.

Integrators List | PCI-SIG

pcisig.com

The USB IF also has a certification program, so no, I'm not going to "get real" as I actually work with these things, unlike you, who clearly make shit up as you go along.

Compliance | USB-IF

www.usb.org

Did I say it had anything to do with Asus support for next gen CPUs? I was simply explaining that you didn't understand the issue of PCIe 4.0 support on the X470 and B450 boards. The rest, is something you made up by clearly not understanding my reply.

I am not defending Asus, seriously dude, your reading comprehension is severely lacking.

As a n00b here, you should also consider your manners, as some of us here have decades long industry experience and actually know what we're talking about.

 

[Makaveli]

AMD might not be happy about that. I wonder if the ensuing uproar will prompt them to have a word in Asus ear?

The question is other than making a fuzz about it publicly what how can AMD force ASUS to do it. If they don't want to put engineers towards that and rather you buy a new board.

AM4 made any platform Intel ever put out look like a joke.

That is incorrect.

And now rest of motherboard vendors likely do the same announcement, no support for ryzen 5000 on x470 top boards. Probably now it's good time to sell x470 when they worth something.

That cat is already out of the bag I wouldn't buy a used x470 board today.

 

[GeorgeMan]

As an MSI B450 Tomahawk owner, if the same goes true for MSI too, I'll not be buying a new motherboard, nor a new CPU until I'm not satisfied with my Ryzen 3600 performance (which is gonna take at least a couple of years).
So both of them (MSI & AMD) are losing a potential buyer, AMD for this generation of CPUs and MSI for a future gen (either on Intel or AMD platforms).
It's as simple as that.

 

[Chrispy_]

That's a pretty major typo...
It's hardly being pedantic, as it makes your post factually incorrect, despite the rest of it being more or less right.

One character wrong is not a "major typo" but I've already accepted that it's wrong so why are you being so deliberately obtuse? It's obviously supposed to be MB because there are two common EEPROM sizes, 16MB and 32MB and I typed the wrong letter.

I almost expected you of all people to derail a thread for something so trivial. If you're not having a go at forum users you're doing it to moderators and TPU staff in reviews. Hopefully this post and yours get marked as "low quality content" by a moderator and we can get back on topic....

 

[Vayra86]

I'd argue the generational changes between each gen are more than baby. 48% increase in speed between two generations (c20)... hardly babysteps.

3 slides sure but the rest continue in the same way....
source:

View attachment 171660

View attachment 171661

View attachment 171662

Yes you make a good point in that sense. its not baby. But still, upgrading multiple times in the time frame of just 3 years now is pretty exceptional for most users. Not for enthusiasts... but as you can see by the approach of ASUS we're not a big enough group to give two flying *f*s about... And its not the first time, and its not just ASUS either.

More importantly though, do you get my point now? AMD is letting the market push decide whether their promise of support for boards/sockets is ongoing or not. AMD's just saying 'run with whatever you like' apparently, and not 'you must, you shall, provide support like we say'. The latter would be a true move towards customers and not companies. Right now its 'up in the air' and this is a mutually beneficial business decision for AMD and board partners, but not for end users. And AMD can just pass the blame to ASUS (rightly so -mind) but a better agreement with them would be a true solution.

 

[INSTG8R]

Little harsh. But would never choose this to use anyway

 

[iO]

Or instead of fueling the shitstorm, someone could have asked ASUS if that statement is true, which Computerbase.de did, and then get the answer that they will support Zen 3 on 400 series boards...

 

[Haile Selassie]

No it doesn't, as no X470 or B450 board has official PCIe 4.0 support, end of discussion.
It was not possible for any of the board to pass the PCI SIG certification, so AMD removed support in the AGESA.
The PCI SIG does test all PCIe implementations, as if you want to be able to sell your product as PCIe compliant, you have to go through the certification.
That's also why there's a searchable database of all approved products.

Integrators List | PCI-SIG

pcisig.com

The USB IF also has a certification program, so no, I'm not going to "get real" as I actually work with these things, unlike you, who clearly make shit up as you go along.

Compliance | USB-IF

www.usb.org

Did I say it had anything to do with Asus support for next gen CPUs? I was simply explaining that you didn't understand the issue of PCIe 4.0 support on the X470 and B450 boards. The rest, is something you made up by clearly not understanding my reply.

I am not defending Asus, seriously dude, your reading comprehension is severely lacking.

As a n00b here, you should also consider your manners, as some of us here have decades long industry experience and actually know what we're talking about.

You might take some comprehension lessions yourself - PCI SIG does not validate any implementation, it is down to their qualified partners to do so. It is also possible to self-validate according to the specification. So yes, PCI SIG doesn't test shit, they merely maintain the repository of all compliant devices. And yes, I do produce PCI SIG compliant devices. In case you haven't realized yet, I am an EE and may actually gone through more PCI SIG gen4 designs than you (I can't claim that since I do not know your qualifications).

Manners or not, the length of residency has very little to do with qualifications. After all, with all that residency you have here you should have known better not to derail this thread about ASUS cutting CPU support into a PCIE compatibility debate.