Maps, science, data & statistics tracking of COVID-19

[dragontamer5788]

then why would these scientists say its safe???

Is one vaccine dose enough if you’ve had COVID? What the science says

Research shows that a previous coronavirus infection plus one dose of vaccine provides powerful protection — but concerns linger.

www.nature.com

But scientists still don’t know whether one-jab programmes for the previously infected could leave some individuals with suboptimal protection. Nor is it clear that such programmes would be effective for all types of vaccine.

Your own link shows that the evidence isn't conclusive yet. There's enough evidence that maybe we should conduct a full scale test of the theory.

 

[Space Lynx]

Your own link shows that the evidence isn't conclusive yet. There's enough evidence that maybe we should conduct a full scale test of the theory.

Indeed, I agree, and I am in the risk group for myocardia which is now on the warning label for Pfizer specifically after the second jab. I see no reason with wearing a mask, staying isolated, a little while longer to see what the new data shows. Especially with alternative studies, specifically the New England Journal of Medicine (from that same link) states the data shows I am mostly fine as is.

I have no problem getting second shot, but I also see no reason waiting a bit longer for it. I don't go anywhere anyway, and I won't be traveling without my second shot. If you think I am the problem, you are mistaken, its the people flying today, tomorrow, next week, in the thousands who refuse to get vaccinated yet fly anyway. (also I still wear KN95 mask in grocery store, etc) I am the only one left wearing masks mostly. but eh.

edit: If I had not had severe covid, then I would not qualify for this new data and would get my second shot right now, just fyi. but the science is leaning both ways on this one imo.

 

[dragontamer5788]

I have no problem getting second shot, but I also see no reason waiting a bit longer for it.

The problem with waiting for it, is that you've left the conditions of what the phase 3-trial of 30,000+ individuals tested.

The minute you start deviating from the big, expensive 30,000+ person test, is the minute you're on your own. You've changed the parameters of the treatment. You really don't want to do that unless you're forced. The 30,000 person test group is still being tested: we're still trying to figure out how long immunity lasts.

If you go off on your own, you don't have the mountain of evidence backing up your treatment anymore. You're just experimenting upon yourself... unnecessarily. There's plenty of vaccine here for you to complete the treatment and stay within the bounds of the largest research groups (Pfizer study of 30,000+ or Moderna study of 30,000+ people).

 

[Space Lynx]

The problem with waiting for it, is that you've left the conditions of what the phase 3-trial of 30,000+ individuals tested.

The minute you start deviating from the big, expensive 30,000+ person test, is the minute you're on your own. You've changed the parameters of the treatment. You really don't want to do that unless you're forced. The 30,000 person test group is still being tested: we're still trying to figure out how long immunity lasts.

If you go off on your own, you don't have the mountain of evidence backing up your treatment anymore. You're just experimenting upon yourself.

So all of Europe, U.K., and more I can't think of right now, no longer exists now? They are all doing longer than 3 week jabs... almost everyone I know overseas is getting it at 8-12 week marks.


The findings from Hatziioannou and her colleagues also hint at the biological underpinnings of one jab’s effectiveness in exposed people. In the 12 months after participants were infected, their memory B cells had not been static. Instead, those cells spent the entire year evolving, which left them able to craft antibodies even more potent and versatile than those that they produced immediately after infection.

Other studies corroborate that thinking, with some showing that one shot can spur the growth of antibodies and infection-fighting T cells alike. “We’re all seeing pretty much the same thing,” says John Wherry, an immunologist at the University of Pennsylvania Perelman School of Medicine in Philadelphia. For people who have recovered from COVID-19, “the second shot doesn’t seem to do a whole lot”.

This is the scientific method... in bold. Scientists in different regions of world, are verifying each others data and getting same results.

 

[dragontamer5788]

This is the scientific method... in bold. Scientists in different regions of world, are verifying each others data and getting same results.

Look, we all know that 30ug of Pfizer is effective, while 100ug of Moderna is what was tested.

We're not suddenly going to cut down Moderna to 30ug unless we go through Phase 3 trials again. Note: cutting down to 30ug would effectively triple the amount of Moderna vaccine available (!!!) So this would be a big deal if we can prove it safe.

There's studies showing that Moderna is probably unnecessarily injecting us with a bit more vaccine than needed (and two shots of it nonetheless). And yet, we stick with 100ug. Do you know why?

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Despite the evidence that 100ug is probably too much, the smaller dose (say 50ug or 30ug) is not tested to a degree that satisfies the general scientific community. We really need to run through the big 30,000+ people tests to really be sure about how the darn thing works.

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I'm sure there are all sorts of optimizations we can do to our vaccine distribution. But we should wait for actual tests to be done. And not just 2000-person or 50-person tests, I'm talking full scale proper tests. Not just "grabbing blood, extracting antibodies, and looking at it on a petri dish". I'm talking about real placebo (control) vs vaccine (experimental) group tests. Different levels of science have different levels of trust associated with it. I'm not saying your theory is wrong, but without a doubt I can say that your theory is insufficiently tested.

We only deploy large scale treatments to our population after a proper placebo vs treatment trial. That's the law, that's the scientifically agreed standard of "sufficient testing", that's our culture. Anything less is just evidence that's building up for a proper trial.

 

[Space Lynx]

We only deploy large scale treatments to our population after a proper placebo vs treatment trial. That's the law, that's the scientifically agreed standard of "sufficient testing", that's our culture. Anything less is just evidence that's building up for a proper trial.

I have no arguments with you on all that, also the CDC does say on their own website Pfizer is effective up to 6 weeks after first shot. Other countries say longer, but even if I wait a couple more weeks I still won't be at week 6 deadline yet, and I plan to get before then most likely. So if your saying I can't listen to the CDC's own 6 week recommendation... ;p

Also, regarding the studies. I don't think the big companies are interested in doing these studies, is there any proof that shows they are even looking at the one shot post severe covid and doing studies on it? I don't think they are even looking at large scale studies on it. I doubt we will ever have that data other than this small stuff, which all does seem to verify each other.

 

[dragontamer5788]

Also, regarding the studies. I don't think the big companies are interested in doing these studies, is there any proof that shows they are even looking at the one shot post severe covid and doing studies on it? I don't think they are even looking at large scale studies on it. I doubt we will ever have that data other than this small stuff, which all does seem to verify each other.

Johnson and Johnson explicitly developed a single-shot regiment to compete against the 2-shot regiments of Pfizer / Moderna. J&J probably would have had far higher efficacy if they actually did a 2-shot regiment instead.

Moderna is a startup (kinda sorta: they got $Billions but they're a relatively new player overall). They're clearly erring on the side of "more effective" compared to the other companies: favoring 2 shots and at much higher doses than Pfizer. I think their corporate plan is to beat everyone else on efficacy, so that's why they're testing in the way they're doing...

 

[freeagent]

My first shot was Pfizer and my second shot was Moderna. A week later I feel pretty good. Nothing for the kids yet.. hoping they don’t have to keep paying the price and can go back to school when it’s time. The kids really got fucked in all of this. Not mine so much, because we were here with them. But lots of kids are waay behind. Not really interested in conspiracies. But I guess we will find out this fall…

 

[R-T-B]

ROLL UP YOUR SLEEVES BOYS YOUR NOT DONE YET LOL

It's likely going to turn into a seasonal flu situation with the variants, meaning we'll never be done because mankind is dumb.

 

[Xzibit]

The problem with waiting for it, is that you've left the conditions of what the phase 3-trial of 30,000+ individuals tested.

The minute you start deviating from the big, expensive 30,000+ person test, is the minute you're on your own. You've changed the parameters of the treatment. You really don't want to do that unless you're forced. The 30,000 person test group is still being tested: we're still trying to figure out how long immunity lasts.

If you go off on your own, you don't have the mountain of evidence backing up your treatment anymore. You're just experimenting upon yourself... unnecessarily. There's plenty of vaccine here for you to complete the treatment and stay within the bounds of the largest research groups (Pfizer study of 30,000+ or Moderna study of 30,000+ people).

Well hopefully they start testing more @ risk people who really need the help now that more information is out there. The people with the highest IFR/CFR by age were given the short end of the stick the first time around.

They are going to do a trial for Delta variant

Pfizer and BioNTech are in discussions with the US medicine regulator to finalise their clinical trial plans and expect to begin studies in August.

Also the 12 and under trials are just beginning

Pfizer Inc said on Tuesday it will begin testing its COVID-19 vaccine in a larger group of children under age 12 after selecting a lower dose of the shot in an earlier stage of the trial.

 

[dragontamer5788]

Also the 12 and under trials are just beginning

Phase 3 trials are just beginning for Pfizer.

The whole process needed to be started over (back to Phase 1 / Phase 2) for young kids because 30ug on a 180lb adult male is completely different than 30ug on a 50lb 10-year old child. It looks like they've established safety and basic indicators of efficacy for their 10ug and 3ug doses for the age groups in question.

Looks like the 12-and-under group will be authorized in September, if the phase 3 trials go well. 10ug and 3ug are safe (Phase 1) and seem to be effective (Phase 2), so time for the full scale test.

 

[Sithaer]

Not that its much but I will leave my few cents here from my mid European country. 'Hungary'

We have multiple vaccines available, basically most of them.
My parents got Pfizer and they were and are okay now, some of my friends got Sinopharm and my grandparents got Pfizer or Moderna and they are also all good.

Personally I got Johnson&Johnson in late May along with a my old high school friend at the same doctor, we are both in the 30-32 age range.

I had a bit of a fever for 1 day and some minor upper arm/triceps pain but it wasn't a bother, my friend had no fever but had bad arm pain instead. 'I do work out tho so idk if that helped with my arm or not'
I was in the very low risk group as I'm fairly young at 32 and have no known health issues so I wasn't in a rush to get my vaccine. 'that and I'm not socially active, I'm a bad introvert who rarely goes anywhere with other ppl'

Since the end of last week my goverment lifted some of the restrictions like now we don't have to wear a mask and can freely go to public places/shops/bus/restaurants and such except for big concerts and whatnot where you need the vaccine card thingy.
Supposedly the country is over 50+% vaccined at least with the first dose and thats why they lifted these restrictions.

Will see what happens later ofc but things are almost back to normal here for now, can see bunch of ppl all over the place like its all good.
There are some issues regarding getting the second shot of vaccine if the first one wasn't 'good enough' if it wa a different vaccine and also something against the third shot so I'm wondering whats gonna happen to ppl like me who got the 1 shot one by default. 'I mean issues on a goverment level'

 

[Space Lynx]

It's likely going to turn into a seasonal flu situation with the variants, meaning we'll never be done because mankind is dumb.

Exactly. The mere fact they aren't requiring vaccine for flying on airplanes is proof in the pudding. Pathetic.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Exactly. The mere fact they aren't requiring vaccine for flying on airplanes is proof in the pudding. Pathetic.

However if they don't require proof of vaccine they do require a negative test, certainly in most of Europe, which would you think is the best solution? The answer a lot of people seem to have is that they are equal, if they are equal then I would probably go with the test, simply because whilst I am absolutely pro vaccine I am also pro choice, remembering of course that a vaccinated individual can still carry and transmit the disease, just to a much lesser extent than those non vaccinated.

 

[Xzibit]

Don't let the W.H.O be the downer in all this

So, what we’re saying is once you’ve been fully vaccinated continue to play it safe because you could end up as part of a transmission chain. You may not actually be fully protected. Sometimes the vaccines don’t work in people

Use your inner voice. Don't say that out loud.

As we’re seeing, there are new variants emerging and we’ve been talking about the Delta all day today. You have to continue to be appropriately cautious. We’re still in a world that is full of this COVID virus and it’s a virus that is still evolving.

As we have we been saying, and Paulina this is super important, vaccine alone won’t stop the community transmission and we need to ensure that people follow the public health measures that Dr Maria Van Kerkhove was speaking today. People need to continue to use masks consistently, be in ventilated spaces, hand hygiene, respiratory etiquette, the physical distance, avoid crowding.

6-Feet maybe more

in general, where you have a high level of continuous community transmission. So, people cannot feel safe just because they had the two doses. They still need to protect themselves.

 

[dragontamer5788]

Use your inner voice. Don't say that out loud.

I mean, vaccines vary in efficacy from 50% (Sinopharm) to 95% (Pfizer 2nd dose), and everything in between (J&J, Sputnik V, Moderna, and soon Novavax and others... so many vaccines coming out). Yeah, it doesn't always work, but its better than nothing (and seems to be better than natural immunity, vs variants like Gamma aka P1 aka Brazil variant).

None of this is new. But in light of those facts, does the public policy discussion change at all?

No. Our best bet are vaccines, ideally the higher efficacy (Pfizer / Moderna) vaccines, but not everyone can get those. Get the vaccine that's most available to your location. Even in a vaccine rich country like the USA, something like J&J's single dose regiment is all that can be done practically (ex: a worker who doesn't have enough off time to get a 2nd dose: so Pfizer / Moderna is off the table due to the two-shot regiment). There's efficacy tradeoffs for choosing something like J&J, but its still better than nothing and prevents hospitalization.

We know that some variants (Gamma / P1) reinfect those who have been already infected. So the theory to "just infect everyone" is already dead on arrival.

We know that some variants (Delta) reduces the efficacy of vaccines. A high-reliability vaccine (ex: Pfizer / Moderna) still has plenty of "wiggle room" so to speak, dropping to maybe 80% down from 95%, so its still a highly effective measure. The lower-efficacy vaccines are open to debate and/or study. Its a worry for sure.

 

[R-T-B]

Use your inner voice. Don't say that out loud.

How about we not pretend there's a movement to not discuss aspects like that? I hope that's not your insinuation.

Because there isn't. What he said is factual, but it's usually imunocompromised groups that don't get immunity. The ones that need it to work most. Still the best thing for them to do is get it and hope.

 

[Xzibit]

How about we not pretend there's a movement to not discuss aspects like that? I hope that's not your insinuation.

Because there isn't. What he said is factual, but it's usually imunocompromised groups that don't get immunity. The ones that need it to work most. Still the best thing for them to do is get it and hope.

It is factual but he was speaking in general terms. Their is a part in the discussion where they don't know still how much infection there needs to be or how much is needed to stop it and is complicated by it evolving.

 

[Caring1]

What I keep seeing is that 25% of Americans say they won't be getting any vaccine for various reasons.

They should be excluded from any necessary medical treatment too, after all it's only a flu or a conspiracy right?

 

[64K]

They should be excluded from any necessary medical treatment too, after all it's only a flu or a conspiracy right?

I've run across some people on a game site that are convinced the government generated the Covid-19 virus and Vaccine in order to inject people with tracking microchips through the vaccine injection. They don't call it a Pandemic. They call it a Plandemic. It's incredible what some people believe.

 

[Xzibit]

That would be political suicide in my state giving the demos that are the lowest. Doubt any politician wants the blowback.

 

[R-T-B]

They should be excluded from any necessary medical treatment too, after all it's only a flu or a conspiracy right?

I think they should be at the bottom of the queue for respirators etc should hospitals become overloaded again. That's as far as I'll go.

 

[claes]

I sort of get where y’all are coming from with the eugenics for plandemic types but I’m honestly surprised (probably shouldn’t be) by how many black and brown people who take the virus seriously are wary of the vaccine because of the lack of testing on PoC and a long history of state sanctioned medical experiments on them

 

[Xzibit]

I think they should be at the bottom of the queue for respirators etc should hospitals become overloaded again. That's as far as I'll go.

Like a priority privilege list

Vaccinated 40 state avg as of July 6
Asian - 62%
Whites - 47%
Hispanic - 39%
Blacks - 34%

Washington
Asian - 76%
Whites - 50%
Blacks - 46%
Hispanic - 39%

California
Asian - 68%
Whites - 58%
Blacks - 43%
Hispanic - 42%

New York
Asian - 79%
Whites - 52%
Hispanic - 47%
Blacks - 36%

 

[Space Lynx]

However if they don't require proof of vaccine they do require a negative test, certainly in most of Europe, which would you think is the best solution? The answer a lot of people seem to have is that they are equal, if they are equal then I would probably go with the test, simply because whilst I am absolutely pro vaccine I am also pro choice, remembering of course that a vaccinated individual can still carry and transmit the disease, just to a much lesser extent than those non vaccinated.

negative tests don't matter... just ask the Delta variant how it got into the UK. vaccines required before any sort of travel between countries should be a 100% requirement. it's insane that is not a requirement, especially when the mutations in the future might possibly bring all economies to their knees again. if that happens again... I don't think even USA economy will survive.

Like a priority privilege list

Vaccinated 40 state avg as of July 6
Asian - 62%
Whites - 47%
Hispanic - 39%
Blacks - 34%

Washington
Asian - 76%
Whites - 50%
Blacks - 46%
Hispanic - 39%

California
Asian - 68%
Whites - 58%
Blacks - 43%
Hispanic - 42%

New York
Asian - 79%
Whites - 52%
Hispanic - 47%
Blacks - 36%

how is it a privilege list? I am genuinely curious seeing as how the vaccine is readily available for months now to anyone who wants it here (USA as a whole)