I have a question about: CyberPower 1500VA / 900Watts True Sine Wave Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS)

[Bill_Bright]

I believe you should not have a printer on a ups or at least a laser one.

This is true. Plus, printers just are not critical enough to have on the battery side. Most bigger UPS have outlets that are not supported by the battery - it is fine to put an ink jet printer there. Never a laser because the power required to heat up the fuser (heating element) is too high.

Playstation 5, 55" OLED tv, 6700 XT computer, all plugged in to it and running at the same time, both the console and pc playing a game?

30 minutes? No way! And frankly, if the playstation and the computer just happen to be maxing out demands at the same time, it could be too much for the UPS.

I would get a separate UPS for the TV. If you have a cable box and DVD/Blu-ray player too, they can go on the UPS with the TV.

It is important to remember the primary purpose for a good UPS is the AVR - automatic voltage regulation. It is this feature that protects your connected components from surges and spikes, as well as from low voltage events like dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) or brownouts (long duration sags).

Note that surge and spike protectors do absolutely nothing for dips, sags or brownouts. And for excessive surges and spikes, they simply cut power (“IF” working properly), crashing your computer - never good. And of course, surge and spike protectors wear out. This is why it is recommended surge and spike protectors be replaced every 2 years. If worn out or damaged, they typically provide little to no protection at all.

The battery backup feature of a good UPS is just a minor bonus feature.

Also, a UPS should not be used so you can keep playing your game if the power goes out. The purpose of the UPS is to provide enough battery run time so you "gracefully" save your work, exit your running programs, shutdown Windows, then power off your equipment until power is restored.

Also, don't forget that destructive anomalies don't have to originate on the "grid". A malfunctioning high wattage appliance, or damaged 1500W $15 hair dryer from foreign lands can introduce damaging surges or spikes on the circuit too. Point being, don't assume a stable power grid negates the need for a good UPS with AVR. It doesn't.

 

[newtekie1]

Plus, printers just are not critical enough to have on the battery side.

Most of the time, sure, but there are some printers that are definitely worth keeping on a UPS

 

[Bill_Bright]

There are always exceptions to the rule. But they don't make the rule.

The point is, a printer is not going to be damaged or become corrupted (like data on a drive) if it suddenly loses power. I suppose if timing was perfect, you could end up with a paper jam if power went out right as a sheet was moving through the works. But paper jams can be cleared, and print jobs restarted.

Still, laser printers should not go on a UPS unless it is a whole-facility UPS - but that is for a different discussion.

 

[sam_86314]

is this the same battery that my cyberpower true sine wave will have? it would be nice to know what batteries i will need to replace it with in a couple years

It probably uses two 12V 9Ah SLA batteries. Price wise, I'd expect them to be similar to 7Ah ones; maybe a bit more. So around $30 per battery for decent ones.

Most of the time, sure, but there are some printers that are definitely worth keeping on a UPS

It might be a good idea to keep a 3D printer on a UPS because of the long printing time.

 

[tabascosauz]

For my purposes, of just using a UPS as a pure backup so I can shut things down after 1-2 minutes following a power outage, does it matter if I go Simulated Sine Wave or True Sine Wave?

Simulated Sine Wave 810w version of Cyberpower is $99.99 and the True Sine Wave I mentioned in article title is $149.99

thoughts?

It *shouldn't really* matter that much these days with regards to PSUs, but you can never get a clear answer when it comes to this stuff. You'll get plenty of answers saying modern PSUs don't care, and plenty more that think modern PSUs are more susceptible.

The way I see it, even though there's an appreciable difference in price (here 1500VA regular $220, 1500VA sine $275, both brands), if for some odd reason any of your devices DON'T like simulated sine, you will have wasted 100% of your money on a UPS since your device will probably shut off immediately and you'll still risk your data. So may as well pay a bit more and avoid all potential problems.

But if you can return it on Amazon, and the manufacturer Windows app (ie. Powerchute on this side of the fence) gives you some way of initiating a self-test, you can easily tell whether you're affected and change units if needed.

 

[Shrek]

I've wondered about keeping my gas heating going during a power cut and the induction motor pump will probably not work at all unless the input is pure sine-wave.

A house fan on the UPS would be a good way to test this.

 

[Bill_Bright]

unless the input is pure sine-wave.

Pure sinewave is yet another marketing gimmick - perpetrated on us by those wanting you to buy their pure sinewave UPS over regular.

Almost nothing needs, except, maybe, extremely sensitive medical monitoring, or perhaps missile trajectory electronics.

Lots of products work off inverters and other devices that output simulated or "stepped approximated" sinewave and operate just fine. These include electric motors and refrigerator and AC compressors. Note that most RVs use inverters to convert DC to AC and do not produce "pure" sine waves.

Computer UPS for decades have output stepped approximated sine waves and I guarantee a computer is much more sensitive than your heater motor.

FTR, motors are actually very robust and tolerant electronic devices.

 

[Shrek]

Almost nothing needs, except, maybe, extremely sensitive medical monitoring, or perhaps missile trajectory electronics.

Lots of products work off inverters and other devices that output simulated or "stepped approximated" sinewave and operate just fine. These include electric motors and refrigerator and AC compressors. Note that most RVs use inverters to convert DC to AC and do not produce "pure" sine waves.

Your house fans work fine on your UPS units? (I don't have any UPS with batteries out here to try)

 

[cvaldes]

I've been using UPSes at home for over 25 years. All except one have been stepped sine wave units and I've never had an issue with any device having problems with the stepped output.

Now if I were a corporate IT type I'd deploy pure sine wave units for servers, etc. on the company's dime. I'm not a corporate IT type so stepped wave units are fine for for my SOHO usage case.

All of the stepped wave UPSes have been APC models; my Cyberpower is the only pure sine wave unit, my most recent purchase.

As mentioned by Bill_Bright, the most important feature of a UPS for home usage is voltage regulation, particularly for sags, drops, and brownouts. My neighborhood is not prone to these events and lightning strikes are a non-issue. The power goes out 2-3 times a year, usually for less than 30 seconds.

My data is the most valuable thing to protect so I put my Mac mini and my daily driver PC (an NZXT H1) on the Cyberpower as well as the LG monitor, a couple of external hard drives, and the Ethernet hub. This ensures that I can gracefully shut everything down in the rare case that the power outage lasts beyond 5 minutes.

My APC stepped wave units are used around the house. One for my networking gear (primarily a DSL router), another one charges my phone and some other small items.

My primary gaming computer (the one in my system specs) is currently not on a UPS. I don't have any mission-critical/personal data on it. It's on a surge protector as basic insurance for the pricey hardware. I have a couple of videogame consoles in the same A/V setup and those aren't on the UPS either. If the power goes out while I'm playing Nintendo Switch, big deal.

It's important for the OP to consider the quality of their electricity and how often power events happen as well as what kind. Then there's a risk analysis that needs to happen at some moment that takes into account the value of the OP's data, how often backups are made, how much sleep the OP wants to get, and OP's budget.

If cost is an issue, it's probably better to buy a couple of stepped wave units versus one pure sine wave unit.

 

[Shrek]

I've never had an issue with any device having problems with the stepped output.

Might I ask you try a room fan?

 

[cvaldes]

Might I ask you try a room fan?

LOL, I have a GermGuardian HEPA fan currently plugged into an APC Back-UPS ES 350 unit. I ran it overnight a few days ago.

I also have a common box fan that I have also occasionally plugged into this UPS.

They both work fine. The box fan is probably close to 20 years old. The HEPA fan is about 7 years old.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Your house fans work fine on your UPS units?

I don't have any house fans on UPS. But I have used them before. No problems!

A fan motor is about as low-tech as you can get. Why would you think they need pure sinewave? They don't!

But I do have 5 computers, an big screen TV, a pretty decent home theater sound system, my electric blanket, and my garage door opener all on UPS.

But again - motors are very tolerant and rugged devices. As long as the UPS has plenty of power to deal with the start up demands of the motor, no problem.

Lets not forget that pure sinewave UPS are only a recent thing. Stepped approximation UPS have been around for 30+ years. There is NO REASON WHATSOEVER our consumer electronics would suddenly start requiring pure sinewave UPS now! Again, that is just pure marketing hogwash!

And the only reason pure sinewave UPS have become a recent thing is because their prices have [finally] come down to the point where they are competitive.

I am NOT saying there is anything bad about pure sinewave. If you are shopping for a new UPS, can find a good pure sinewave at a decent price, go for it. What I am saying is, there is nothing wrong with the simulated or approximated sinewave of a good, traditional UPS with AVR. You don't need pure sinewave. Our PSUs don't need them. Wall warts don't need them. Fan motors don't need them either.

 

[Shrek]

A fan motor is about as low-tech as you can get. Why would you think they need pure sinewave?

Because single phase induction motors are hard to start.

Good to know they work on cheap UPSs; much appreciated.

 

[cvaldes]

Because single phase induction motors are hard to start.

I have no idea what kind of motor is in my two fans. They appear to be happy with my UPS though. Whoever designed my fans must be electrical engineering geniuses. They probably have Ph.Ds from MIT, Caltech, CMU, whatever.

Bill_Bright's anti-pure sine wave rant is correct.

Pure sine wave UPS units used to be really expensive and only recently have been affordably priced for consumer use. However expensive computers and other consumer electronics have been fine with stepped wave units for decades.

It's a great marketing gimmick. I knew it and I still bought one, mostly because it was on sale and the price difference was negligible.

And Cyberpower has a decent warranty anyhow.

 

[Shrek]

I have no idea what kind of motor is in my two fans. They appear to be happy with my UPS though.

Much appreciated, although it is the start that bothers me; once running I could see why they might keep running.

my electric blanket

I know that not all electric blankets like simulated sine; I had an electric blanket that was fine on simulated sine, but then I had to update the controller and it needed pure sine wave. I believe this is a safety feature as on simulated sine-wave there is full voltage or none, while on pure sine wave one can operate on the low voltage part of the wave.

 

[Space Lynx]

It's important for the OP to consider the quality of their electricity and how often power events happen as well as what kind. Then there's a risk analysis that needs to happen at some moment that takes into account the value of the OP's data, how often backups are made, how much sleep the OP wants to get, and OP's budget.

backups aren't an issue for me, and i already use a belkin surge protector of decent quality.

only reason I want UPS is so a power outage doesn't fry my cpu/gpu by accident, or corrupt memory on ps5 or something. I'd like to shut everything down properly and unplug from wall within 5 mins of a power outage, this is the only reason I want a UPS

are these the wrong reasons for wanting a UPS? (fyi power rarely goes out where I live, maybe once a year on average)

 

[Shrek]

Seems to me this is the very best reason to want a UPS.

 

[Space Lynx]

Seems to me this is the very best reason to want a UPS.

i dont mind paying an extra 50 bucks for true sine wave then, no big deal.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Because single phase induction motors are hard to start.

All motors take a lot more power to start than they do to keep running. That does not, in any way, suggest they need a pure sinewave over simulated.

Bill_Bright's anti-pure sine wave rant is correct.

Rant? Well okay - but it is only because of the lies marketing weenies spew. I am fine them adding a little "fluff" to differentiate their products over another. But I am not okay with them spewing falsehoods that the ill-informed take as gospel and then spew it further for others to incorrectly believe.

So if defending us consumers from businesses taking advantage of consumers is a rant, then rant on!

are these the wrong reasons for wanting a UPS?

Absolutely not! If you had read my often repeated comments above, you will see me saying several times, it is the AVR and protection from surges, spikes, dips, sags and brown outs that make a good UPS with AVR so valuable.

Backup power during a full outage is just a minor bonus feature.

i already use a belkin surge protector of decent quality.

If you also read my comments above, you would see that a surge and spike protector is little more than a fancy, and expensive extension cord.

i dont mind paying an extra 50 bucks for true sine wave then, no big deal.

And that is your choice and you are right, no big deal AS LONG AS you don't do it thinking you need it, or that you are doing your equipment any favors.

REMEMBER - and this is IMPORTANT!!! Those sinewaves and stepped approximation waveforms ONLY matter when the UPS has kicked over to battery backup power. At all other times, the sinewave out of the wall is what your connected components are seeing - after a little regulating from the AVR, if needed.

Just looking at the logs for the APC UPS on this system for the last 12 weeks, this UPS has provided backup power to my system twice, for a total of 17 seconds. And I live in Tornado Alley.

 

[cvaldes]

backups aren't an issue for me, and i already use a belkin surge protector of decent quality.

only reason I want UPS is so a power outage doesn't fry my cpu/gpu by accident, or corrupt memory on ps5 or something. I'd like to shut everything down properly and unplug from wall within 5 mins of a power outage, this is the only reason I want a UPS

are these the wrong reasons for wanting a UPS? (fyi power rarely goes out where I live, maybe once a year on average)

Your original post stated you wanted to run for 30 minutes after a power failure. Now you say 5 minutes. You really need to think about what usage case you are covering before you buy a UPS because the former requires a much higher capacity unit than the latter.

I don’t need to play games for half an hour on battery backup. I just need about five minutes to finish up my current tasks at a convenient stopping point then shut everything down gracefully.

My CyberPower CP1000PFCLCD allows me to do this on TWO computers. And I knew this before I bought it that this was my goal.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to play games on UPS backup power. Your money, your choice. Just make sure YOU understand YOUR priorities and choose wisely.

For me, if I want to game during a power failure, I’d just pull the Switch out of its dock.

 

[Space Lynx]

Your original post stated you wanted to run for 30 minutes after a power failure. Now you say 5 minutes. You really need to think about what usage case you are covering before you buy a UPS because the former requires a much higher capacity unit than the latter.

I was overestimating the point of a UPS was all, hence, why I have no idea and made this thread. I was hoping I could just do some things for 10-15 minutes before doing the proper shut down process if nothing else, but now I see more clearly what UPS is for.

 

[cvaldes]

There are different UPSes for different usage cases at different prices. You can get a whole house UPS/battery backup system.

Most homeowners don’t get one because the costs are too high for the perceived benefit. The installed ones usually cover lighting, the refrigerator and maybe networking for 24 hours. Those are still probably $20,000. They are typically installed along with solar panels.

Remember places like hospitals have big UPSes. If the power goes out, no one’s heart rate monitor is going to stop beeping.

 

[Space Lynx]

https://www.costco.com/cyberpower-le850g-ups-battery-backup-with-surge-protection.product.100519070.html

what about something like that above? only 460w, but that should be enough for a ps5 and OLED tv... and if power goes out, I can shut them down within 30 seconds properly. then unplug from wall until things return to normal, or would i need a proper big one like in the thread title to achieve ONLY ps5 and OLED tv say 48" in size OLED tv draws like (65 watts or something) and ps5 is 350 watts.

and lets just assume nothing else is plugged into it. it would be ok correct?

 

[cvaldes]

I suggest you use the power calculators at the UPS manufacturers’ websites after consulting the owners manuals of your devices.

You are starting to understand that much of this depends highly on what you do after the power goes out. Playing games on a PC or PS5 draws a lot of power.

The RTX 3080 Ti in my primary gaming build draws around 350W during gaming (just the GPU -- with peaks to 359W). It idles at 14W.

Now you are saying you can shut down in 30 seconds, down from 5 minutes and the original 30.

With a casual glance that model seems to be sufficient for your latest usage case. That said, I personally think 5 minutes is more realistic. Say bye to your friends, save game, shut down gracefully.

My NZXT H1 draws way more power than my Mac mini so I shutdown the former first. I can probably continue to use the Mac another 30 minutes on battery provided I’m not running a Handbrake encode or something. I’d probably turn down the monitor brightness. Notebook computers do this automatically.

 

[R-T-B]

Your house fans work fine on your UPS units? (I don't have any UPS with batteries out here to try)

PWM UPS user here who has run AC fans on miners in the past: yeah, they run. Slight reduction in speed but nothing to fret over.