Should i switch to an AIO?

dgianstefani · Jan 27, 2023

AusWolf said:
That I agree with. They don't contain enough liquid for a constant 24/7 heat soak situation.

Nothing does. The limit is the radiator in a 24/7 heat soak situation.

AusWolf said:
Like I said, % doesn't mean anything. °C and dBa do.

Wow. A whole 5°C cooler.

AusWolf said:
Not every technology is entirely stupid that you personally don't like.

Sure bud.

kapone32 · Jan 27, 2023

dgianstefani said:
And yet despite all these advantages they're still within 5-10% when noise normalized.

They're popular because they're marketed hard and are used as status symbols. RGB fans are popular too while being objectively worse than non-RGB fans. Lots of things are popular while also being overpriced pieces of garbage? Have you looked online recently lmao.

Nothing is pure aluminium or copper, hence the existence of vapour chambers and heatpipes.

What is the greatest innovation in cases in the last 10 years? Radiator support. The ease of installation is a definite positive for AIOS and I guess my SK140s are not as good as regular Phanteks fans. There is some merit to what you are saying but the vastness of the ecosystem means that neither your position or the position of someone who is a proponent of AIOs is wrong. By the way Alphacool Eisbaer and Quick Connect are an easy way to combine AIO/Watercooling. They offer enough flexibility for an AIO for your CPU and GPU that are all copper. I have yet to see a heatpipe on that unit as the res sits on top of the CPU on the Eisbaer.

dgianstefani · Jan 27, 2023

kapone32 said:
What is the greatest innovation in cases in the last 10 years? Radiator support. The ease of installation is a definite positive for AIOS and I guess my SK140s are not as good as regular Phanteks fans. There is some merit to what you are saying but the vastness of the ecosystem means that neither your position or the position of someone who is a proponent of AIOs is wrong. By the way Alphacool Eisbaer and Quick Connect are an easy way to combine AIO/Watercooling. They offer enough flexibility for an AIO for your CPU and GPU that are all copper. I have yet to see a heatpipe on that unit as the res sits on top of the CPU on the Eisbaer.

As someone who has used Eisbaer systems, good luck having that tiny pump work well with your CPU and GPU and one/two radiators.

Best innovation in past ten years has been airflow restriction optimization, radiator support is good too.

A Computer Guy · Jan 27, 2023

dgianstefani said:
Phanteks T30-120 Fan Review - One Fan to Rule Them All?

Phanteks' take on the ultimate PC fan is finally out! The T30-120 is a 30-mm thick fan that has a feature set to make many others blush, including the use of LCP blades and frames, Sunon's magnetic levitation bearing, three operating modes for different use cases, and fantastic performance...

www.techpowerup.com

That video really sold me on the Artic P12. For $35 you can get a 5 pack. Very economical for a couple of degrees tradeoff.

dgianstefani · Jan 27, 2023

A Computer Guy said:
This video really sold me on the Artic P12. For $35 you can get a 5 pack. Very economical for a couple of degrees tradeoff.

Certainly good, but the fan motor isn't as quiet and I have some doubts on the longevity.

None of the builds I've recently done with P12 have failed yet, but they're not as nice to hear in the background.

AusWolf · Jan 27, 2023

dgianstefani said:
Wow. A whole 5°C cooler.

That's the °C part. Then you have dBa. Generally, you're OK with much lower fan rpm on a radiator in a low heat soak situation. For example, I have mine at 0 rpm until 50 °C on the CPU. Can you do the same with an air cooler? Before you start, my pump is completely inaudible over my extremely low rpm case fans.

dgianstefani said:
Sure bud.

View attachment 281039

You gave me one number. Wow! How about everything I said above?

Arco · Jan 27, 2023

AusWolf said:
That's the °C part. Then you have dBa. Generally, you're OK with much lower fan rpm on a radiator in a low heat soak situation. For example, I have mine at 0 rpm until 50 °C on the CPU. Can you do the same with an air cooler? Before you start, my pump is completely inaudible over my extremely low rpm case fans.

I have to agree, my AF II 420 pump is quiet.

There are very good cheap options for air-cooling though.

dgianstefani · Jan 27, 2023

AusWolf said:
That's the °C part. Then you have dBa. Generally, you're OK with much lower fan rpm on a radiator in a low heat soak situation. For example, I have mine at 0 rpm until 50 °C on the CPU. Can you do the same with an air cooler? Before you start, my pump is completely inaudible over my extremely low rpm case fans.

You gave me one number. Wow! How about everything I said above?

How about every review TPU has ever done bud.

And no, you don't need fans turned on at low heat loads on either air or water.

TechPowerUp

www.techpowerup.com

kapone32 · Jan 27, 2023

dgianstefani said:
As someone who has used Eisbaer systems, good luck having that tiny pump work well with your CPU and GPU and one/two radiators.

Best innovation in past ten years has been airflow restriction optimization, radiator support is good too.

You know that they offer GPU EISbear GPU blocks with their own pump?

dgianstefani · Jan 27, 2023

kapone32 said:
You know that they offer GPU EISbear GPU blocks with their own pump?

Great, two pumps to plug in.

dirtyferret · Jan 27, 2023

kapone32 said:
What is the greatest innovation in cases in the last 10 years?

kapone32 · Jan 27, 2023

dgianstefani said:
Great, two pumps to plug in.

You could always buy a res to add to it as well. I don't look at the things you are saying as negatives but ways to solutions to mitigate those things. I also have used EIsbaer and still use 1 of my 420 rads.

AusWolf · Jan 27, 2023

dgianstefani said:
How about every review TPU has ever done bud.

And no, you don't need fans turned on at low heat loads on either air or water.

TechPowerUp

www.techpowerup.com

Thanks for the link, because I absolutely don't know how to use the search engine, and of course I have time to read every single one of them instead of exchanging opinions with you. :respect:

Because what both you and I are saying are that: opinions. I like AIOs for reasons, you dislike them for other reasons. Let's leave it at that.

Edit: The first AIO review I opened ends with "Great value" and "Editor's Choice" awards. Sure, it must be hot garbage. :wtf:

dgianstefani · Jan 27, 2023

AusWolf said:
Thanks for the link, because I absolutely don't know how to use the search engine, and of course I have time to read every single one of them instead of exchanging opinions with you.

Because what both you and I are saying are that: opinions. I like AIOs for reasons, you dislike them for other reasons. Let's leave it at that.

Edit: The first AIO review I opened ends with "Great value" and "Editor's Choice" awards. Sure, it must be hot garbage.

So the fact that AIO's degrade over time is an opinion?
So the fact that they perform within five degrees Celsius of high end air when noise normalized is an opinion?
So the fact they're a cheap imitation of custom water and designed to last 3-5 years before being a throwaway part is an opinion?

OK. Whatever floats your boat.

A product performing well when it's brand new, wow, shocking. Obviously the value proposition is there when compared to custom loop costs, as I've stated from the beginning, but that value degrades over time, whereas air cooling is as good as the day you bought it after a quick dust and a custom loop will perform indefinitely with maintenance.

E-waste.

ThrashZone · Jan 27, 2023

Hi,
Wonder how hard parts picker would laugh when a black 212 was selected :laugh:

Okay yeah anything else would be better.

dirtyferret · Jan 27, 2023

ThrashZone said:
Hi,
Wonder how hard parts picker would laugh when a black 212 was selected

not the 128 GB of RAM? What exactly is the OP's use for this machine? We have a rendering 12900k & RTX 3080 PC in the office that uses just 32 GB of ram.

Vya Domus · Jan 27, 2023

dgianstefani said:
Most won't "fail", the performance will just continually degrade

Do you have any evidence to support this ? The liquid permeates but it's gonna take literal years before enough is lost to affect performance, how many years of use do you expect out of a cooler ? Decades ? Custom loops are basically just as useless as far as longevity goes because if you change anything 2 or 3 years down the line you're gonna need new blocks for the GPU or CPU, some of which cost as much as a high end AIO by the way. It seems to me you're just mindlessly hating on AIOs for no reason.

They work fine and they'll last for long enough. How many AIOs are sold each year, hundreds of thousands ? If they sucked people wouldn't buy them, many reviewers use AIOs for CPU testing as well.

dgianstefani · Jan 27, 2023

Vya Domus said:
They work fine and they'll last for long enough. How many AIO are sold each year, hundreds of thousands ? If they sucked people wouldn't buy them, many reviewers use AIOs for CPU testing as well.

"If they sucked people wouldn't buy them."
Laughs in RGB fans and alienware desktops.

Yes... Because the average consumer is mindful of longevity and TPU price/performance charts.

Vya Domus · Jan 27, 2023

dgianstefani said:
Yes... Because the average consumer is mindful of longevity and TPU price/performance charts.

Do you see thousands of posts every day about people complaining how their AIO can't cool their PC anymore because I don't. Like AIOs are a thing for about a decade now, surely by now so many of them would have failed and sucked so badly at some point people would have started to avoid them.

dgianstefani · Jan 27, 2023

Vya Domus said:
Do you see thousands of posts every day about people complaining how their AIO can't cool their PC anymore because I don't. Like AIOs are a thing for about a decade now, surely by now so many of them would have failed and sucked so badly at some point people would have started to avoid them.

Many, if not most in the know do avoid them.

They're a marketing success, this isn't that complicated.

Vya Domus · Jan 27, 2023

dgianstefani said:
Many, if not most in the know do avoid them.

They're a marketing success, this isn't that complicated.

Classic PC elitist nonsense.

You're one of the select few that are enlightened and everyone else isn't, ok bro.

dgianstefani · Jan 27, 2023

Vya Domus said:
Do you have any evidence to support this ? The liquid permeates but it's gonna take literal years before enough is lost to affect performance, how many years of use do you expect out of a cooler ? Decades ? Custom loops are basically just as useless as far as longevity goes because if you change anything 2 or 3 years down the line you're gonna need new blocks for the GPU or CPU, some of which cost as much as a high end AIO by the way. It seems to me you're just mindlessly hating on AIOs for no reason.

They work fine and they'll last for long enough. How many AIOs are sold each year, hundreds of thousands ? If they sucked people wouldn't buy them, many reviewers use AIOs for CPU testing as well.

There you go, purchase more e-waste with a 3-5 year lifespan because replacing one component instead wouldn't save you money.

Financial sense not logical sense as I said earlier.

dgianstefani said:
Junk product class borne of compromise and marketing piggybacking off the image of water-cooling with the single advantage being cost. As usual with those parameters, the result only works in the imaginary world of finance.

Vya Domus said:
Classic PC elitist nonsense.

You're one of the select few that are enlightened and everyone else isn't, ok bro.

freeagent said:
From the temps that I see people posting, or describing with an AIO.. they are not that good. I am talking on hardware that I am using or have used..

I watched my AIO perform fantastically when it was new, then the slow decline that never got better.

If you don't load your CPU and just play games and stuff it will probably be ok. But if you fold or something like that, you will not get good life from your AIO.

I saw one review where my air cooler was performing as well as an LFII 360.

Selaya said:
i wouldnt say its just cost since doing a custom loop is legit effort, but yeah on the whole i'd agree w/ you.
if you want water, do custom. otherwise stick to air.

Vya Domus · Jan 27, 2023

dgianstefani said:
There you go, purchase more e-waste with a 3-5 year lifespan because replacing one component instead wouldn't save you money.

Financial sense not logical sense as I said earlier.

Except that makes neither logical nor financial sense. A custom loop usually costs so much that you can probably buy 2 high end AIOs in those 3-5 years.

Also, isn't it e-waste when you replace like... you know... anything at all ? Or is it just that AIOs annoy you, specifically, for some reason ?

dgianstefani · Jan 27, 2023

Vya Domus said:
Except that makes neither logical nor financial sense. A custom loop usually costs so much that you can probably buy 2 high end AIOs in those 3-5 years.

Also, isn't it e-waste when you replace like... you know... anything at all ? Or is it just that AIOs annoy you, specifically, for some reason ?

Great - run off and buy two consumables instead of a system you can maintain and keep indefinitely. Well done.

Vya Domus · Jan 27, 2023

dgianstefani said:
a system you can maintain and keep indefinitely

Yeah you can build a PC with a custom loop that you can use indefinitely, I bet it's pretty amazing to game at 10 fps 10 years down the line on that PC for example but hey at least that loop you built still works, cool.

System Name	Silent/X1 Yoga
Processor	Ryzen 9800X3D @ 5.55ghz all core 1.2 V, Thermal Grizzly AM5 High Performance Heatspreader/1185 G7
Motherboard	ASUS ROG Strix X670E-I, chipset fans replaced with Noctua A14x25 G2
Cooling	Optimus Block, HWLabs Copper 240/40 + 240/30, D5/Res, 4x Noctua A12x25, 1x A14G2, Mayhems Ultra Pure
Memory	64 GB Dominator Titanium White 6000 MT, 150 ns tRFC, active cooled
Video Card(s)	RTX 3080 Ti Founders Edition, Conductonaut Extreme, 18 W/mK MinusPad Extreme, Corsair XG7 Waterblock
Storage	Intel Optane DC P1600X 118 GB, Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB
Display(s)	32" 240 Hz 1440p Samsung G7, 31.5" 165 Hz 1440p LG NanoIPS Ultragear, MX900 dual gas VESA mount
Case	Sliger SM570 CNC Aluminium 13-Litre, 3D printed feet, custom front, LINKUP Ultra PCIe 4.0 x16 white
Audio Device(s)	Audeze Maxwell Ultraviolet w/upgrade pads & LCD headband, Galaxy Buds 3 Pro, Razer Nommo Pro
Power Supply	SF1000 Plat, full transparent custom cables, Sentinel Pro 1500 Online Double Conversion UPS w/Noctua
Mouse	Razer Viper V3 Pro 8 KHz Mercury White & Pulsar Supergrip tape, Razer Atlas, Razer Strider Chroma
Keyboard	Wooting 60HE+ module, TOFU-R CNC Alu/Brass, SS Prismcaps W+Jellykey, LekkerV2 mod, TLabs Leath/Suede
Software	Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 24H2
Benchmark Scores	Legendary

System Name	Best AMD Computer
Processor	AMD 7900X3D
Motherboard	Asus X670E E Strix
Cooling	In Win SR36
Memory	GSKILL DDR5 32GB 5200 30
Video Card(s)	Sapphire Pulse 7900XT (Watercooled)
Storage	Corsair MP 700, Seagate 530 2Tb, Adata SX8200 2TBx2, Kingston 2 TBx2, Micron 8 TB, WD AN 1500
Display(s)	GIGABYTE FV43U
Case	Corsair 7000D Airflow
Audio Device(s)	Corsair Void Pro, Logitch Z523 5.1
Power Supply	Deepcool 1000M
Mouse	Logitech g7 gaming mouse
Keyboard	Logitech G510
Software	Windows 11 Pro 64 Steam. GOG, Uplay, Origin
Benchmark Scores	Firestrike: 46183 Time Spy: 25121

System Name	Silent/X1 Yoga
Processor	Ryzen 9800X3D @ 5.55ghz all core 1.2 V, Thermal Grizzly AM5 High Performance Heatspreader/1185 G7
Motherboard	ASUS ROG Strix X670E-I, chipset fans replaced with Noctua A14x25 G2
Cooling	Optimus Block, HWLabs Copper 240/40 + 240/30, D5/Res, 4x Noctua A12x25, 1x A14G2, Mayhems Ultra Pure
Memory	64 GB Dominator Titanium White 6000 MT, 150 ns tRFC, active cooled
Video Card(s)	RTX 3080 Ti Founders Edition, Conductonaut Extreme, 18 W/mK MinusPad Extreme, Corsair XG7 Waterblock
Storage	Intel Optane DC P1600X 118 GB, Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB
Display(s)	32" 240 Hz 1440p Samsung G7, 31.5" 165 Hz 1440p LG NanoIPS Ultragear, MX900 dual gas VESA mount
Case	Sliger SM570 CNC Aluminium 13-Litre, 3D printed feet, custom front, LINKUP Ultra PCIe 4.0 x16 white
Audio Device(s)	Audeze Maxwell Ultraviolet w/upgrade pads & LCD headband, Galaxy Buds 3 Pro, Razer Nommo Pro
Power Supply	SF1000 Plat, full transparent custom cables, Sentinel Pro 1500 Online Double Conversion UPS w/Noctua
Mouse	Razer Viper V3 Pro 8 KHz Mercury White & Pulsar Supergrip tape, Razer Atlas, Razer Strider Chroma
Keyboard	Wooting 60HE+ module, TOFU-R CNC Alu/Brass, SS Prismcaps W+Jellykey, LekkerV2 mod, TLabs Leath/Suede
Software	Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 24H2
Benchmark Scores	Legendary

System Name	Still not a thread ripper but pretty good.
Processor	Ryzen 9 7950x, Thermal Grizzly AM5 Offset Mounting Kit, Thermal Grizzly Extreme Paste
Motherboard	ASRock B650 LiveMixer (BIOS/UEFI version P3.08, AGESA 1.2.0.2)
Cooling	EK-Quantum Velocity, EK-Quantum Reflection PC-O11, D5 PWM, EK-CoolStream PE 360, XSPC TX360
Memory	Micron DDR5-5600 ECC Unbuffered Memory (2 sticks, 64GB, MTC20C2085S1EC56BD1) + JONSBO NF-1
Video Card(s)	XFX Radeon RX 5700 & EK-Quantum Vector Radeon RX 5700 +XT & Backplate
Storage	Samsung 4TB 980 PRO, 2 x Optane 905p 1.5TB (striped), AMD Radeon RAMDisk
Display(s)	2 x 4K LG 27UL600-W (and HUANUO Dual Monitor Mount)
Case	Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic Black (original model)
Audio Device(s)	Corsair Commander Pro for Fans, RGB, & Temp Sensors (x4)
Power Supply	Corsair RM750x
Mouse	Logitech M575
Keyboard	Corsair Strafe RGB MK.2
Software	Windows 10 Professional (64bit)
Benchmark Scores	RIP Ryzen 9 5950x, ASRock X570 Taichi (v1.06), 128GB Micron DDR4-3200 ECC UDIMM (18ASF4G72AZ-3G2F1)

System Name	Silent/X1 Yoga
Processor	Ryzen 9800X3D @ 5.55ghz all core 1.2 V, Thermal Grizzly AM5 High Performance Heatspreader/1185 G7
Motherboard	ASUS ROG Strix X670E-I, chipset fans replaced with Noctua A14x25 G2
Cooling	Optimus Block, HWLabs Copper 240/40 + 240/30, D5/Res, 4x Noctua A12x25, 1x A14G2, Mayhems Ultra Pure
Memory	64 GB Dominator Titanium White 6000 MT, 150 ns tRFC, active cooled
Video Card(s)	RTX 3080 Ti Founders Edition, Conductonaut Extreme, 18 W/mK MinusPad Extreme, Corsair XG7 Waterblock
Storage	Intel Optane DC P1600X 118 GB, Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB
Display(s)	32" 240 Hz 1440p Samsung G7, 31.5" 165 Hz 1440p LG NanoIPS Ultragear, MX900 dual gas VESA mount
Case	Sliger SM570 CNC Aluminium 13-Litre, 3D printed feet, custom front, LINKUP Ultra PCIe 4.0 x16 white
Audio Device(s)	Audeze Maxwell Ultraviolet w/upgrade pads & LCD headband, Galaxy Buds 3 Pro, Razer Nommo Pro
Power Supply	SF1000 Plat, full transparent custom cables, Sentinel Pro 1500 Online Double Conversion UPS w/Noctua
Mouse	Razer Viper V3 Pro 8 KHz Mercury White & Pulsar Supergrip tape, Razer Atlas, Razer Strider Chroma
Keyboard	Wooting 60HE+ module, TOFU-R CNC Alu/Brass, SS Prismcaps W+Jellykey, LekkerV2 mod, TLabs Leath/Suede
Software	Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 24H2
Benchmark Scores	Legendary

Should i switch to an AIO?

dgianstefani

TPU Proofreader

kapone32

dgianstefani

TPU Proofreader

A Computer Guy

Phanteks T30-120 Fan Review - One Fan to Rule Them All?

dgianstefani

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AusWolf

Arco

dgianstefani

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TechPowerUp

kapone32

dgianstefani

TPU Proofreader

dirtyferret

kapone32

AusWolf

TechPowerUp

dgianstefani

TPU Proofreader

ThrashZone

dirtyferret

Vya Domus

dgianstefani

TPU Proofreader

Vya Domus

dgianstefani

TPU Proofreader

Vya Domus

dgianstefani

TPU Proofreader

Vya Domus

dgianstefani

TPU Proofreader

Vya Domus

Processor	Various Intel and AMD CPUs
Motherboard	Micro-ATX and mini-ITX
Cooling	Yes
Memory	Overclocking is overrated
Video Card(s)	Various Nvidia and AMD GPUs
Storage	A lot
Display(s)	Monitors and TVs
Case	The smaller the better
Audio Device(s)	Speakers and headphones
Power Supply	300 to 750 W, bronze to gold
Mouse	Wireless
Keyboard	Mechanic
VR HMD	Not yet
Software	Linux gaming master race

System Name	Firestarter
Processor	7950X
Motherboard	X670E Steel Legend
Cooling	LF 2 420
Memory	4x16 G.Skill X5 6000@CL36
Video Card(s)	RTX Gigabutt 4090 Gaming OC
Storage	SSDS: OS: 2TB P41 Plat, 4TB SN850X, 1TB SN770. Raid 5 HDDS: 4x4TB WD Red Nas 2.0 HDDs, 1TB ext HDD.
Display(s)	42C3PUA, some dinky TN 10.1 inch display.
Case	Fractal Torrent
Audio Device(s)	PC38X
Power Supply	GF3 TT Premium 850W
Mouse	Razer Basilisk V3 Pro
Keyboard	Steel Series Apex Pro
VR HMD	Pimax Crystal with Index controllers

Processor	faster at instructions than yours
Motherboard	more nurturing than yours
Cooling	frostier than yours
Memory	superior scheduling & haphazardly entry than yours
Video Card(s)	better rasterization than yours
Storage	more ample than yours
Display(s)	increased pixels than yours
Case	fancier than yours
Audio Device(s)	further audible than yours
Power Supply	additional amps x volts than yours
Mouse	without as much gnawing as yours
Keyboard	less clicky than yours
VR HMD	not as odd looking as yours
Software	extra mushier than yours
Benchmark Scores	up yours

System Name	Ghetto Rigs z490\|x99\|Acer 17 Nitro 7840hs/ 5600c40-2x16/ 4060/ 1tb acer stock m.2/ 4tb sn850x
Processor	10900k w/Optimus Foundation \| 5930k w/Black Noctua D15
Motherboard	z490 Maximus XII Apex \| x99 Sabertooth
Cooling	oCool D5 res-combo/280 GTX/ Optimus Foundation/ gpu water block \| Blk D15
Memory	Trident-Z Royal 4000c16 2x16gb \| Trident-Z 3200c14 4x8gb
Video Card(s)	Titan Xp-water \| evga 980ti gaming-w/ air
Storage	970evo+500gb & sn850x 4tb \| 860 pro 256gb \| Acer m.2 1tb/ sn850x 4tb\| Many2.5" sata's ssd 3.5hdd's
Display(s)	1-AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz/ 2nd 1-ASUS VG248QE 24"/ 3rd LG 43" series
Case	D450 \| Cherry Entertainment center on Test bench
Audio Device(s)	Built in Realtek x2 with 2-Insignia 2.0 sound bars & 1-LG sound bar
Power Supply	EVGA 1000P2 with APC AX1500 \| 850P2 with CyberPower-GX1325U
Mouse	Redragon 901 Perdition x3
Keyboard	G710+x3
Software	Win-7 pro x3 and win-10 & 11pro x3
Benchmark Scores	Are in the benchmark section

System Name	Good enough
Processor	AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard	ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling	2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory	32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s)	Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage	1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s)	LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case	Phanteks NV7
Power Supply	GPS-750C