How to quickly & easily fix coil-whine(coil choke noise)

[athenaesword]

Is MX4 fine? My local Micro Center does not have MX6 nor even MX5. Just MX4. And do I need to replace the thermal pads or can I just leave the stock ones on?

mx4 would be fine. all the good pastes are within a few degrees of each other. 4090 runs so cool anyway, especially if watercooled. mx5 had more issues than mx4 iirc, but mx4 has been a good option for a long time. all the other more aggressive pastes require repasting earlier than mx4 which should last years.
thermal pads, if you're doing this mod, would probably need new ones. since your'e going to have to remove them to do the glue mod. i'm not sure you would be able to put them back on without some of them being uneven/broken, but i guess if you eyeball them and they look fine....

 

[Wolverine2349]

mx4 would be fine. all the good pastes are within a few degrees of each other. 4090 runs so cool anyway, especially if watercooled. mx5 had more issues than mx4 iirc, but mx4 has been a good option for a long time. all the other more aggressive pastes require repasting earlier than mx4 which should last years.
thermal pads, if you're doing this mod, would probably need new ones. since your'e going to have to remove them to do the glue mod. i'm not sure you would be able to put them back on without some of them being uneven/broken, but i guess if you eyeball them and they look fine....

So MX4 would not have the pump-out issue like Noctua NT-H1 on a 4090 GPU die?

 

[Assimilator]

I think NT-H1 is susceptible to pump-out on GPUs, I think @lexluthermiester has had good luck with Arctic MX-6.

I've seen zero compelling evidence that any thermal pastes have a pump-out problem. The only cases where it seems to be an issue is in laptops, and there's evidence that this is rather due to poor contact resulting from bad HSF design. (Or maybe, from people unnecessarily repasting their laptops and incompetently reassembling them.)

 

[lexluthermiester]

Is MX4 fine?

MX4 is great!

And do I need to replace the thermal pads or can I just leave the stock ones on?

As long as they are not damaged, the stock pads will be just fine.

So MX4 would not have the pump-out issue like Noctua NT-H1 on a 4090 GPU die?

MX4 does not exhibit any evidence of "pump-out".

I've seen zero compelling evidence that any thermal pastes have a pump-out problem. The only cases where it seems to be an issue is in laptops, and there's evidence that this is rather due to poor contact resulting from bad HSF design. (Or maybe, from people unnecessarily repasting their laptops and incompetently reassembling them.)

This.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BCL2KT5Y/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3O523LQQ2NT7Z&psc=1 does it look like this one? that harborfreight website doesn't load for me for some reason.

No, but I'm sure it would be fine. The concern with Loctite is a limited one. They seem to be doing their own thing and have a formulae that is part way between the liquid form of SuperGlue and the gel form, which for this application is very bad. Only the liquid form will do as the naturally occurring "wicking" action is part of how the sealing & silencing effect works.

 

[Wolverine2349]

MX4 is great!

As long as they are not damaged, the stock pads will be just fine.

MX4 does not exhibit any evidence of "pump-out".


This.


No, but I'm sure it would be fine. The concern with Loctite is a limited one. They seem to be doing their own thing and have a formulae that is part way between the liquid form of SuperGlue and the gel form, which for this application is very bad. Only the liquid form will do as the naturally occurring "wicking" action is part of how the sealing & silencing effect works.

So in my PM concern of loctite is small concern. It's not liquid enough? When I applied it it seemed very liquid and runny and seaped in cracks well. So should it be ok or did I ruin anything?

 

[lexluthermiester]

So in my PM concern of loctite is small concern. It's not liquid enough?

Seemingly not. The form of superglue to use is the very thin(runny) liquid form.

 

[Wolverine2349]

Seemingly not. The form of superglue to use is the very thin(runny) liquid form.

I made sure the word liquid was in it. They have others that say gel. I made sure it said liquid and looks like it was good and correct. I had assumed liquid meant low viscosity since I found no other info and my assumption appears correct. And I know liquid is way more runny than gel.

 

[Wolverine2349]

Well I just tried the PNY XLR8 4090 after using loctite liquid super glue on the chokes circled in red. Made no difference. So frustrating.

Like where is noise coming from?

 

[lexluthermiester]

Like where is noise coming from?

The ones in Yellow?

 

[Wolverine2349]

A forum user recently asked about Coil Whine, which is the noise a choke coil sometimes makes as it operates. This almost always a video card problem, but can happen on any other computer or electronics components employing a choke in it's circuitry, including power supplies.

I have for decades been using a very easy, quick and, most importantly, permanent fix. This fix works 95% of the time to quiet the noise to the point that it is not audible more than 8inches/20cm away. The rest of the time, the noise is barely audible.

A word of caution! If your part is under warranty, you may wish to consider doing an RMA. Most manufacturers actually want the noisy part back so they can test and analyze it for re-engineering to improve future designs. If your part is NOT under warranty, read on...

What you need:
Any tools required to disassemble the part to access the choke coils in question.
One container of cyanoacrylate based glue, commonly known as "Super Glue".

The brand of super glue you choose is not important. The type is. The type must be of low viscosity so it can quickly wick into the empty spaces between the choke coil and the board it's soldered to. The applicator having a narrow tip nozzle is important as it will make applying the glue more precise. See below.

In this photo you can see how I'm applying the glue directly into the gap.
View attachment 244155

It's important to use enough glue to completely wick the entire edge of the choke. Then you let it cure for at least an hour(while super glue sets in seconds it still needs an hour or two to fully cure).

Once cured the fix is complete. And you're good to go! Put everything back together and enjoy.

Important EDIT:
After two reports and some research it has been discovered that the Loctite brand superglue is a hybrid glue that has a consistency which falls inbetween gel types and the fluid types. As a superglue it seems like a good choice.
However in this use-case-scenario, it is NOT recommended as it is not as fluidic as normal liquid superglue types and will not wick into the spaces between the choke coil housing and PCB!

So wait is all Loctite SuperGlue not good even the kind that says liquid as it is a hybrid? Or if it feels like liquid it should be fine. Cause the kind I used is runny? Or is it still bad?

 

[athenaesword]

I bought a tube of this and some needle nose bottles for applicTion

So wait is all Loctite SuperGlue not good even the kind that says liquid as it is a hybrid? Or if it feels like liquid it should be fine. Cause the kind I used is runny? Or is it still bad?

don’t know but changing to glue that others have said works is much cheaper than changing 4090s

 

[Wolverine2349]

I bought a tube of this and some needle nose bottles for applicTion

don’t know but changing to glue that others have said works is much cheaper than changing 4090s

Well if I already put the loctite on one, have no choice but to change to different 4090 and see if the correct glue works?

Does the glue from HFT at Harbor freight below look good. It says it does not run or drip?? That is bad unless they mean once it cures?

10 Piece High Strength Super Glue

Amazing deals on this 10 Pack High Strength Super Glue at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Which glue do you use?

 

[maxfly]

Well if I already put the loctite on one, have no choice but to change to different 4090 and see if the correct glue works?

Does the glue from HFT at Harbor freight below look good. It says it does not run or drip?? That is bad unless they mean once it cures?

10 Piece High Strength Super Glue

Amazing deals on this 10 Pack High Strength Super Glue at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Which glue do you use?

Dude, just send it to lex. By the time you figure out what kind of glue to use he will have the entire card done for you.

 

[Wolverine2349]

https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/products/fix/super-glue/loctite_super_glueliquidprofessional.html - I already used this Loctite glue. It felt liquid like and did drip

Is that still not good as t is hybrid, or was it just the gel kind that lexluthermiester feels not to use or was it thought all were gel kind?

https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/products/fix/super-glue/loctite-super-glue-pro-gel.html - I did NOT and made sure not to use that as it is not liquid.

Dude, just send it to lex. By the time you figure out what kind of glue to use he will have the entire card done for you.

Well they does not offer online services. Which super glue do you use Lex?

 

[maxfly]

https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/products/fix/super-glue/loctite_super_glueliquidprofessional.html - I already used this Loctite glue. It felt liquid like and did drip

Is that still not good as t is hybrid, or was it just the gel kind that lexluthermiester feels not to use or was it thought all were gel kind?

https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/products/fix/super-glue/loctite-super-glue-pro-gel.html - I did NOT and made sure not to use that as it is not liquid.



Well they does not offer online services. Which super glue do you use Lex?

For the 50th time since you've joined the thread...

I've never used Loctite. I buy the SuperGlue brand when I can find it or a generic brand. My current batch was bought at Harbor Freight. It's a very fluidic glue, like the SuperGlue brand and wicks into joints very quickly. Perhaps Loctite should be avoided if it's too viscus? I think I'm going to have to test that...


That seems to go inline with the experiences I've had.

 

[Norton]

For the 50th time since you've joined the thread...

Be polite and Constructive, if you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all.

Follow the guidelines or points will follow- consider this a public warning

 

[stama]

I registered on this forum on purpose to reply to Wolverine, as I've seen his coil-whine saga on reddit and various forums by now.

If you want to use the Loctite brand, don't use the consumer versions like those you mentioned in your post. The ones you want are the ones meant for professional/industrial use, like the Loctite 401 or 406 (for low viscosity application aka 'wicking' behavior, and high temperature). Have a look at the Instant Adhesives Product Selector Guide PDF (a link from the Instant Adhesives landing page), or the page 48 of the product catalogue that you can download from here, or you can try the interactive product selector guide and pick "bonding".

The TDS documents that can be downloaded from the product pages have lots of info on the characteristics and curing time needed: Loctite 401, Loctite 406. Spoiler: 24 to 72 hours are needed for full bond strength, and that's valid for all cyano-acrylates despite their "instant 3-5 seconds bond time" claims.

Henkel, the owner of the Loctite brand makes various conformal coatings, underfills, adhesives, encapsulants, potting compounds and so on (hover over the image hotspots for links) for the electronics industry, but you can't find those to buy in a shop.

Please note that I did not try this procedure on any card so far, so I can not claim that this type of "super-glue" will work better than others.

I also want to make another note, regarding the coil temperatures. Some mosfets (like the Vishay chips on the 4090 Gaming OC) are designed to dump heat into the coil through the pin that connects to them and use it as an external heatsink. Those mosfet chips are the ones that get very, very hot, so you can get the coils heat up to very high temperatures. It's not the power waste in the coil itself that is going to be the problem (although that exists as well), it's this heat discharged into them by the mosfets that is. Don't believe me, search for the Vishay guide to implementing their mosfet chips. This is why you will see on all cards the heatsink being in contact with the coils and taking heat away from them. And being in contact with the coils means that whatever temperature the heatsink is at the point of contact, the coils will be at least at that temperature.

PS: I don't work for Henkel!

 

[lexluthermiester]

Well if I already put the loctite on one, have no choice but to change to different 4090 and see if the correct glue works?

Does the glue from HFT at Harbor freight below look good. It says it does not run or drip?? That is bad unless they mean once it cures?

10 Piece High Strength Super Glue

Amazing deals on this 10 Pack High Strength Super Glue at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Which glue do you use?

That is a good set to use. The formulation used by the brand Harbor Freight sells is perfect.

I registered on this forum on purpose to reply to Wolverine, as I've seen his coil-whine saga on reddit and various forums by now.

If you want to use the Loctite brand, don't use the consumer versions like those you mentioned in your post. The ones you want are the ones meant for professional/industrial use, like the Loctite 401 or 406 (for low viscosity application aka 'wicking' behavior, and high temperature). Have a look at the Instant Adhesives Product Selector Guide PDF (a link from the Instant Adhesives landing page), or the page 48 of the product catalogue that you can download from here, or you can try the interactive product selector guide and pick "bonding".

The TDS documents that can be downloaded from the product pages have lots of info on the characteristics and curing time needed: Loctite 401, Loctite 406. Spoiler: 24 to 72 hours are needed for full bond strength, and that's valid for all cyano-acrylates despite their "instant 3-5 seconds bond time" claims.

Henkel, the owner of the Loctite brand makes various conformal coatings, underfills, adhesives, encapsulants, potting compounds and so on (hover over the image hotspots for links) for the electronics industry, but you can't find those to buy in a shop.

Please note that I did not try this procedure on any card so far, so I can not claim that this type of "super-glue" will work better than others.

I also want to make another note, regarding the coil temperatures. Some mosfets (like the Vishay chips on the 4090 Gaming OC) are designed to dump heat into the coil through the pin that connects to them and use it as an external heatsink. Those mosfet chips are the ones that get very, very hot, so you can get the coils heat up to very high temperatures. It's not the power waste in the coil itself that is going to be the problem (although that exists as well), it's this heat discharged into them by the mosfets that is. Don't believe me, search for the Vishay guide to implementing their mosfet chips. This is why you will see on all cards the heatsink being in contact with the coils and taking heat away from them. And being in contact with the coils means that whatever temperature the heatsink is at the point of contact, the coils will be at least at that temperature.

View attachment 285811

PS: I don't work for Henkel!

While I welcome you to TPU and the thread, that info might be confusing things a bit much. We want to keep it easy, thus the edit to my original post.

Folks, Loctite's consumer offerings need to be avoided for viscosity problem reasons.

I'm going to echo Norton, this thread is about solving a problem that is very irritating on potentially very expensive equipment. We all need to be patient, understanding and friendly with those trying to solve this problem. So let's all be chill and cool with each other.

 

[stama]

I would have not thought providing proof is confusing.

The tl;dr version is: Loctite 401 or Loctite 406 is what you want.

 

[Wolverine2349]

I would have not thought providing proof is confusing.

The tl;dr version is: Loctite 401 or Loctite 406 is what you want.

Thanks for the advice Stama., Appreciate it in my coil whine frustration with 4090s and my quest for a quiet one under harsh gaming loads.

Is it better even than the Harbor Freight stuff here: https://www.harborfreight.com/home/.../10-piece-high-strength-super-glue-68345.html that Lex recommends? And what is your opinion Lex on the Loctite 401 and 406 vs the Harbor Freight stuff or does it not matter?

 

[stama]

I don't have the answer to that question, I'm afraid.

I don't think anyone has tried them all to see.

 

[SRV123]

Thanks for the advice Stama., Appreciate it in my coil whine frustration with 4090s and my quest for a quiet one under harsh gaming loads.

Is it better even than the Harbor Freight stuff here: https://www.harborfreight.com/home/.../10-piece-high-strength-super-glue-68345.html that Lex recommends? And what is your opinion Lex on the Loctite 401 and 406 vs the Harbor Freight stuff or does it not matter?

Honestly would be best to go with what Lex is suggesting, which is the HF 10 pack. There may be a better super glue out there and there may be a better solution overall but we won't know until we can either meticulously test each result ourselves or crowdsource different types of materials/super glues on inductors.

Point is, probably best to go with what has worked for others.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The tl;dr version is: Loctite 401 or Loctite 406 is what you want.

Try finding it in stores. Sure there's Amazon, but at $9 a bottle, it's not worth the effort.

And what is your opinion Lex on the Loctite 401 and 406 vs the Harbor Freight stuff or does it not matter?

The brand doesn't really matter. The sealing effect is what matters. Any brand that has a low viscosity and will wick into the gaps and spaces between the choke housing and the PCB will do the job well. The generic stuff you can get at Target, Stables, Walmart, Harbor Frieght, etc. etc. will be inexpensive and you will not have to wait a week for it to arrive. If it comes in a plastic bottle it might not work. If it come in the classic metal tube with the pointy plastic tip, you'll likely be fine.

I don't have the answer to that question, I'm afraid.

Neither do I.

I don't think anyone has tried them all to see.

I certainly haven't. There are too many brands out there to test.

 

[athenaesword]

Try finding it in stores. Sure there's Amazon, but at $9 a bottle, it's not worth the effort.


The brand doesn't really matter. The sealing effect is what matters. Any brand that has a low viscosity and will wick into the gaps and spaces between the choke housing and the PCB will do the job well. The generic stuff you can get at Target, Stables, Walmart, Harbor Frieght, etc. etc. will be inexpensive and you will not have to wait a week for it to arrive. If it comes in a plastic bottle it might not work. If it come in the classic metal tube with the pointy plastic tip, you'll likely be fine.


Neither do I.

I certainly haven't. There are too many brands out there to test.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B09GLX8S4Y?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image

This one look good u reckon? Says it has 2-5 cps viscosity which looks lower than most brands I see. I’m located in asia and a lot don’t ship out here but this one does. I do have loctite 401 but not gonna try that.

 

[lexluthermiester]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B09GLX8S4Y?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image This one look good u reckon? Says it has 2-5 cps viscosity which looks lower than most brands I see.

Yeah, that one looks ok.

I’m located in asia and a lot don’t ship out here but this one does.

Fair enough.

I do have loctite 401 but not gonna try that.

Actually, based on the above chart it looks like it should work. Test it on something less critical and see if it has the correct properties. If you apply a little bit to a joint and it wicks(runs) along the joint, you should be alright.