NASA Achieves milestone Solid State Battery

[KLiKzg]

That's exactly my point. There's no moose-muffins here.

Although, your ownership is by far not a typical one, methinks. Most people (at least here) only have one car.

Now I am going to call you up on stakes...we (as a family, with a small kid) own a 3 cars & 1 scooter, so just getting started...& this does not involve that every member of my immediate family except a mother & mother-in-law owns a car (at least 1 per family member)...my brother-in-law owns actually 5 or 6 of them.

& we have decent amount of money, not nearly swimming in it. So owning cars is something "older generation" do take for granted, while new ones are not inclined to do that.

BTW, older cars were made to last longer...it is "a marketing trick" to get you to buy "a new iPhone every year" as well as to buy "a new car every 3~4 years brand new".

 

[AusWolf]

Now I am going to call you up on stakes...we (as a family, with a small kid) own a 3 cars & 1 scooter, so just getting started...& this does not involve that every member of my immediate family except a mother & mother-in-law owns a car (at least 1 per family member)...my brother-in-law owns actually 5 or 6 of them.

& we have decent amount of money, not nearly swimming in it. So owning cars is something "older generation" do take for granted, while new ones are not inclined to do that.

BTW, older cars were made to last longer...it is "a marketing trick" to get you to buy "a new iPhone every year" as well as to buy "a new car every 3~4 years brand new".

Well, owning cars as a family is different from owning cars as an individual. Most small families (that is: father, mother and kids) only have one or two cars, and and I don't know any individual person who has more than one.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

Well, owning cars as a family is different from owning cars as an individual. Most small families (that is: father, mother and kids) only have one or two cars, and and I don't know any individual person who has more than one.

I think the US has a much different culture, when it comes to cars. A (single) co-worker of mine has 3, another (married) with about 7.

 

[AusWolf]

I think the US has a much different culture, when it comes to cars. A (single) co-worker of mine has 3, another (married) with about 7.

What do they do with so many?

 

[KLiKzg]

What do they do with so many?

Change them like socks?

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

Daily driver, wife's car, show off car, car being fixed up, truck to pull show car, truck being fixed up, old truck because they are fun...

 

[AusWolf]

Daily driver, wife's car, show off car, car being fixed up, truck to pull show car, truck being fixed up, old truck because they are fun...

Ah! I'm guessing those people live in a large family house with a garage, or multiple garages, a back yard, front yard, etc, that is, space to store all the fun cars. Those properties are basically nonexistent in the UK, and even if they did exist, no one could afford one. We're lucky if we have off-street parking, not to mention space for multiple cars, so our cars have to do it all in one. I guess that's why hot hatchbacks and sporty saloons (sedans) are so popular here. They can carry your family around while not sacrificing the fun factor.

 

[claes]

Anecdotes are nice and all but the vast majority of people own <1 car

List of countries and territories by motor vehicles per capita - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

emphasizing the us because they have so many cars

Number of vehicles per household in the U.S. 2017 | Statista

On average, there are 1.88 vehicles per U.S.

www.statista.com

Car Ownership Statistics 2024

Americans place a high value on car ownership, a fact made evident by the latest car ownership statistics in the U.S. Between 2017 and 2021, personal and commercial vehicle registrations increased by 3.66%, indicating an upward trend in car ownership.[1] Most U.S. households (91.7%) had at least one

www.forbes.com

 

[the54thvoid]

Ah! I'm guessing those people live in a large family house with a garage, or multiple garages, a back yard, front yard, etc, that is, space to store all the fun cars. Those properties are basically nonexistent in the UK, and even if they did exist, no one could afford one. We're lucky if we have off-street parking, not to mention space for multiple cars, so our cars have to do it all in one. I guess that's why hot hatchbacks and sporty saloons (sedans) are so popular here. They can carry your family around while not sacrificing the fun factor.

That's just not true. There are plenty of modern housing developments that have those things. The UK's problem is that the urban cities don't have the space for what you're describing, but drive to the closest suburbs and there are many driveway/garage homes with gardens. Just jump into Google maps and you'll see lots.

 

[lexluthermiester]

That's exactly my point. There's no moose-muffins here.

I might have misunderstood you. Sorry.

Although, your ownership is by far not a typical one, methinks. Most people (at least here) only have one car.

I'm married and we have a bunch of kids at home still while they finish high school & university. This household is fairly average here in the states.

 

[AusWolf]

I might have misunderstood you. Sorry.

I'm married and we have a bunch of kids at home still while they finish high school & university. This household is fairly average here in the states.

That household is typical here too, but such a household typically only has one, or maybe two cars here, depending on mom and dad working at the same place or not.

 

[claes]

There are families with 5 cars, there are families of 10 who live in an apartment in NYC and have no cars. YMMV

anyway sorry for ot please carry on

 

[Fangio1951]

My typical house hold in Oz =

Wife's new car - 2022 Hyundai Tucson Highlander N-Line
My car - 2017 Subaru WRX STi
My bike - 2009 Ducati 1098S Streetfighter

We tend to keep our cars for 12 - 16 years before buying a new one.

Bike doesn't count, as I'll never sell it !!!!

 

[the54thvoid]

There are families with 5 cars, there are families of 10 who live in an apartment in NYC and have no cars. YMMV

anyway sorry for ot please carry on

It's more on-topic than you might think.

In Glasgow (and other UK cities), there are many places with old Victorian tenements. This is where @AusWolf's point about 'living space' becomes highly relevant. You might have 16 flats in a simple 4-story tenement. There's simply not enough space outside in the street (remember, Victorian = no car park) for 16 cars. Therefore, overnight electric charging is unfeasible. Our high-rise blocks, built a half century ago, if not longer, have the same restrictions on parking space (though they do have some). Effectively, to have convenient use of an electric car charging in the UK, you need to be rich enough to live in a city and have a private parking space, or live in the sububs, or areas with individual housing. I figure that applies to high-density metropolitan areas anywhere.

Until batteries can be charged rapidly, without tanking the lifepsan of it, it will remain an EV shortcoming, compared to petrol/gas, or hydrogen.

 

[claes]

Oh I just meant speculating about how many cars the average person owns, especially since I already posted data. But you’re probably correct about population density, especially in most of Europe, China, Japan and other countries with long established infrastructure. I can see California, the Midwest, most of Canada and places like Australia/New Zealand being an exception, with both the wealth and access to space for electric vehicles.

But I’m no historian of urban planning so please don’t @ me

 

[AusWolf]

Oh I just meant speculating about how many cars the average person owns, especially since I already posted data. But you’re probably correct about population density, especially in most of Europe, China, Japan and other countries with long established infrastructure. I can see California, the Midwest, most of Canada and places like Australia/New Zealand being an exception, with both the wealth and access to space for electric vehicles.

But I’m no historian of urban planning so please don’t @ me

I only speculated about car ownership because it closely relates to parking space and the ability to charge an EV, as @the54thvoid pointed out. You can say "the average American has 3 cars and 2 bikes with the ability to store and charge 5 more" (crude example), but to that, I can only respond by saying that the average UK town dweller parks on the street and has no chance to charge an EV at home. I'm lucky because I live in an apartment, so I have my own dedicated parking space in a private lot, but even that limits me to one car per household and no ability to charge an EV.

Seriously, anyone who thinks battery EV is the future and everyone should have one needs to come to a UK town and see how people live.

 

[Assimilator]

Seriously, anyone who thinks battery EV is the future and everyone should have one needs to come to a UK town and see how people live.

Then perhaps the problem is the UK's broken housing system, not the technology. In which case, perhaps you should stop blaming the technology and start blaming the UK political system.

 

[AusWolf]

Then perhaps the problem is the UK's broken housing system, not the technology. In which case, perhaps you should stop blaming the technology and start blaming the UK political system.

What political system? Terraced houses (picture below) have been the main form of living for probably 100 years. Even having your own car wasn't a concept in people's head back then, not to mention charging an electric one. You cannot completely rebuild every single UK town just to accommodate a fad. No, the problem is in the expectations of the EV industry on people, and the way some fans think whoever doesn't own one doesn't care about the planet.

Here's a picture of how we live:

Now tell me, how would you rebuild this town to accommodate an EV charger in every household?

 

[the54thvoid]

What political system? Terraced houses (picture below) have been the main form of living for probably 100 years. Even having your own car wasn't a concept in people's head back then, not to mention charging an electric one. You cannot completely rebuild every single UK town just to accommodate a fad. No, the problem is in the expectations of the EV industry on people, and the way some fans think whoever doesn't own one doesn't care about the planet.

Here's a picture of how we live:
View attachment 304149

Now tell me, how would you rebuild this town to accommodate an EV charger in every household?

My street's worse. Only one side can park on the road, otherwise it's blocked. No matter what political system we have, the reality for many is that household EV charging isn't possible. And frankly, if we didn't have these densities, we'd have no countryside left. I'd rather see humans make use of space efficiently, than expand outward until we're living on Coruscant.

I'm all for EV (and alternatives) but governments need to mandate for the future. I don't trust private companies to do it because we've seen how badly they manage the utilities in order to maximise profits for shareholders.

 

[Kyan]

What political system? Terraced houses (picture below) have been the main form of living for probably 100 years. Even having your own car wasn't a concept in people's head back then, not to mention charging an electric one. You cannot completely rebuild every single UK town just to accommodate a fad. No, the problem is in the expectations of the EV industry on people, and the way some fans think whoever doesn't own one doesn't care about the planet.

Here's a picture of how we live:
View attachment 304149

Now tell me, how would you rebuild this town to accommodate an EV charger in every household?

It's the same in some of France's big city areas, small towns and villages. The only option is to charge it on standard electric outlet, or on fast charging station on supermarket's parking or a car garage.

 

[AusWolf]

My street's worse. Only one side can park on the road, otherwise it's blocked. No matter what political system we have, the reality for many is that household EV charging isn't possible. And frankly, if we didn't have these densities, we'd have no countryside left. I'd rather see humans make use of space efficiently, than expand outward until we're living on Coruscant.

I'm all for EV (and alternatives) but governments need to mandate for the future. I don't trust private companies to do it because we've seen how badly they manage the utilities in order to maximise profits for shareholders.

Agreed - I love the countryside. Although, I'm not a fan of EVs, and I won't be as long as the issue of home charging for the masses, or reasonable charging times without killing the battery isn't sorted out.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

EV has a much better chance with 711.3 Wh/Kg solid batteries.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Agreed - I love the countryside. Although, I'm not a fan of EVs, and I won't be as long as the issue of home charging for the masses, or reasonable charging times without killing the battery isn't sorted out.

Whilst I too agree with the total lack of thought or planning regarding mass EV infrastructure, and it frustrates the hell out of me TBH, on your earlier point regarding dwellings, there are less terraced homes in England and Wales than there are either semi detached or even detached and yes it surprised me too, this is from the 2021 census ...................

Housing, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

But that does not change your point. Without a multi billion investment in a mass community charging infrastructure ground breaking battery technology, whilst fantastic may be for many likely to become secondary, especially with falling subsidies/incentives to encourage adoption.

 

[Assimilator]

And frankly, if we didn't have these densities, we'd have no countryside left.

Completely false:

... about 25,000 landowners – typically members of the aristocracy and corporations – have control of half of the country.

... if the land were distributed evenly across England’s population, each person would have just over half an acre – an area roughly half the size of Parliament Square in central London.

Half an acre is over 2,000 square metres - for comparison a two-storey 4-bedroom house is slightly more than 100 sqm in total, and that would generally be divided between four people, giving a mere 25 sqm per person. Even if we were to give each person in the UK "only" 1,000 sqm and keep the remaining half for food production, leisure, and other necessities, that's still 40 times as much land per person.

Stop believing the lies peddled by those with vested interests in having you continue to believe them. Victorian-era terraced houses belong in the Victorian era, not the 21st century. Feudal landowners, including the monarchy, belong in the Middle Ages, not the 21st century.

 

[AusWolf]

Whilst I too agree with the total lack of thought or planning regarding mass EV infrastructure, and it frustrates the hell out of me TBH, on your earlier point regarding dwellings, there are less terraced homes in England and Wales than there are either semi detached or even detached and yes it surprised me too, this is from the 2021 census ...................

Housing, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

But that does not change your point. Without a multi billion investment in a mass community charging infrastructure ground breaking battery technology, whilst fantastic may be for many likely to become secondary, especially with falling subsidies/incentives to encourage adoption.

Interesting. Still, around half of the household being detached or semi- detached houses in England, or 60% in Wales and Scotland is by far not enough for mass EV adoption. For everybody to have an EV, this number needs to be 100%, or very close to it, which is not possible.