DTS DCH Driver for Realtek HDA [DTS:X APO4 + DTS Interactive]

[Ferather]

@bottlefedc83, from what I can tell SPDIF consumer got upgraded to 15+ channels around 2008-2009. The newer HDMI 2.1 was the first to support 1536k total samples (8 x 192k)!

@Kabal81, I will quickly update the 'Win CAudio' with your change and then request a change to post 1 soon. Check back later or tomorrow.
@Kabal81, easy read guide updated (see here), post 1 of this thread will be updated by a kind moderator soon. > Done!

Post 1 of my EAPO stereo upmixer updated (no file updates). Added 'Bypass Offload' to 'DTS Settings'.

 

[Kabal81]

Fantastic work @Ferather as always!

Now I have to figure out, why the heck my rear channels are not working in Cyberpunk 2077 XD

 

[Ferather]

Hmm I don't have that game so I don't know, I Googled and found this: Does 5.1 Surround sound work for you? (Cyberpunk 2077, Steam).
If Equalizer APO is not upmixing it, then its connecting as multichannel, and probably populates as it goes.

You can check the upmixer is working by playing a stereo mp3-flac-other in a media player, you will hear rear (upmixed stereo).
It will also upmix the media player (2.0 to 5.1), while playing 5.1 (individual channels) with another app.

 

[Kabal81]

Hmm I don't have that game so I don't know, I Googled and found this: Does 5.1 Surround sound work for you? (Cyberpunk 2077, Steam).
If Equalizer APO is not upmixing it, then its connecting as multichannel, and probably populates as it goes.

You can check the upmixer is working by playing a stereo mp3-flac-other in a media player, you will hear rear (upmixed stereo).
It will also upmix the media player (2.0 to 5.1), while playing 5.1 (individual channels) with another app.

The upmixer works as intended. As you suggested I played various stereo files. I was able to hear the difference when turning on/off the upmixer while playing the songs.
I'm pretty sure it's a problem with the game itself, which doesn't recognize my system properly.

Edit:
Okay, I have to correct myself! It's just sometimes working. Something is odd with the upmixer. I'm playing mp3 were the codec clearly says stereo but its not upmixed

Edit 2: Now it's getting interesting. Played the same files in different player, upmixer works as intended. First player and my default one is VLC. Second and were the upmixer does work is the integrated one from microsoft.

Edit 3: Played around with the settings of VLC. When I change the output module to DirectX Audio output, the upmixer works. Shouldn't the E-Apo catching every audio output stream? How can VLC bypass it?

 

[Ferather]

I am not sure, I dont use VLC, instead Potplayer. Seems to work with PP in DirectSound or WASAPI, not sure how VLC can force stereo unless it sends empty channels and connects as 6.
Web browsers also do this, where they connect to all the channels with the device, but then populate only left-right, this is not upmixed as 6 channels are detected.

 

[Kabal81]

I am not sure, I dont use VLC, instead Potplayer. Seems to work with PP in DirectSound or WASAPI, not sure how VLC can force stereo unless it sends empty channels and connects as 6.
Web browsers also do this, where they connect to all the channels with the device, but then populate only left-right, this is not upmixed as 6 channels are detected.

Could it be that games like Cyberpunk exhibit the same behavior?

 

[Ferather]

Yes I have played a few games that connect as 6 channels then populate only left-right, upmixer detects 6 channels and does nothing as it should.
Bad implementation of an audio system (the game). Conquerors Blade does exactly the above.

Edit: You can force upmix if you edit channels from 2 to 6 in the upmixer (EAPO), but you will need to change it back after.

 

[Kabal81]

Yes I have played a few games that connect as 6 channels then populate only left-right, upmixer detects 6 channels and does nothing as it should.

Bad implementation of an audio system (the game). Conquerors Blade does exactly the above.

Than myabe that's what Cyberpunk is doing.
Mhhhhh, this general ability to bypass the upmixer (games, video player, whatever) is really worth a deeper look. It would be worth a lot if this unwanted behavior could be curbed at least a little.

 

[Ferather]

Mordhau also does it, it connects to SPDIF as 6 channels, then populates only left-right. I think it depends on the game engine.
Planetside 2 from 2012 does 5.1 surround over SPDIF no issues. Its just a poor design.

I believe someone made a VST for EAPO that detects empty channels, and will upmix the 4 empty ones (I think, here).


@Kabal81, here is a visual image of a Web browser connecting to all channels and populating as it goes.

 

[Kabal81]

Mordhau also does it, it connects to SPDIF as 6 channels, then populates only left-right. I think it depends on the game engine.
Planetside 2 from 2012 does 5.1 surround over SPDIF no issues. Its just a poor design.

I believe someone made a VST for EAPO that detects empty channels, and will upmix the 4 empty ones (I think, here).

Ok. I've downloaded the VST and installed it into the VST folder. I implemented it into the upmixer.txt and disabled everything else. Works! Will do some testing.

Edit: Moved it to config. Makes things easier.

I'm starting to believe that here is a deeper issue with E-Apo and Win11.
The behaviour is completly strange. Were it doesn't want to upmix yesterday, it now it does and vice versa.

The VST is working but I'm not sure if the corner frequencies are working as intended. Look at the graph.

 

[Ferather]

You should probably move the vst above [If InputChannelCount == 2], (you can also move it to below 'EndIF') then play some audio and check the graph.

"I'm starting to believe that here is a deeper issue with E-Apo and Win11." That is possible.

 

[Kabal81]

You should probably move the vst above [If InputChannelCount == 2], (you can also move it to below 'EndIF') then play some audio and check the graph.

"I'm starting to believe that here is a deeper issue with E-Apo and Win11." That is possible.

Yeah, already done that after I saw it down the thread.
But still not working properly. I have ditched the VST, because it causes more trouble. The filters aren't working with it.
Guess I have to live with this issues for now

 

[Ferather]

Sorry I am not able to help any further, same boat as you with a few games. They should not connect as multichannel and then play only stereo, its bad programming.

 

[Kabal81]

Sorry I am not able to help any further, same boat as you with a few games. They should not connect as multichannel and then play only stereo, its bad programming.

No worries. Really. I mean, it's because of you that I can enjoy surround sound in the first place. The drivers locked me out beforehand. And not everyone can know everything. We probably just have to dig deep enough to find someone who can help us with the problem here.

 

[Ferather]

This day in age we should not need to be looking for any kind of workarounds, this includes Windows its self (Win CAudio as an example).
Some of this problem is probably Microsoft, based on the way web browsers are working with Windows audio.

Cant exactly blame the game if Microsoft programmed Windows in that way.

====

The best way for a game or app to work properly on any device would be to read the registry data for the endpoint via the audio service.
It will need to read specific keys, and also ignore the current format key, due to bitstreaming (encoders).

If a device is in bitstream mode (SPDIF > DTSi or HDMI > DTS:X), the current format in PCM terms will be the stream, not the audio.
Older formats bitstream using a 16bit 48k 2 channel PCM stream (containing the compressed audio).

If the app then used the current format, when set to DTSi, DTS:X, Atmos, so on, it would be the wrong specification.

 

[Kabal81]

This day in age we should not need to be looking for any kind of workarounds, this includes Windows its self (Win CAudio as an example).
Some of this problem is probably Microsoft, based on the way web browsers are working with Windows audio.

Cant exactly blame the game if Microsoft programmed Windows in that way.

====

The best way for a game or app to work properly on any device would be to read the registry data for the endpoint via the audio service.
It will need to read specific keys, and also ignore the current format key, due to bitstreaming (encoders).

If a device is in bitstream mode (SPDIF > DTSi or HDMI > DTS:X), the current format in PCM terms will be the stream, not the audio.
Older formats bitstream using a 16bit 48k 2 channel PCM stream (containing the compressed audio).

If the app then used the current format, when set to DTSi, DTS:X, Atmos, so on, it would be the wrong specification.

View attachment 315752

All of this is beyond my abilities. I like to make changes to the registry with instructions, but I don't really understand it.

 

[Ferather]

That last part is for game-application developers, in your case its so you know that SPDIF is setup to the full as 6 channels.
If you open Equalizer APO, top right you will see it says 'Stereo', it's reading the current format.

Thankfully it's not a problem, but a game could end up as stereo because it's reading the bitstream PCM data.
The same can be said for the Realtek app open on SPDIF, it will say 16b 48k, but do 6 x 24b 48k.

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@Kabal81, some games will have settings files you can alter to force the game-app to output true 5.1 or 7.1 regardless.



PSA: How to get surround sound (5.1/7.1) on PC : r/fo76 (reddit.com)

====

As a side note, if you are using EAPO, and then use one of the .reg files in 'DTS Settings', it will delete the EAPO SFX key.

Simply setup EAPO on that endpoint again (no other steps needed).

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Also note SPDIF has DTS APO4 (DTS:X) multichannel EFX programmed (6-8-12-Any ch), opposed to the stereo EFX.
SFX is the only replaceable slot (EAPO), replacing MFX will reduce quality, EFX the same plus no DTSi.

====

Here is the SPDIF speaker config that is set by the driver, this is the code highlighted red in my image (post above).



Note that Blu-ray standard is slightly different with its layout. BL not RL.

 

[Kabal81]

That last part is for game-application developers, in your case its so you know that SPDIF is setup to the full as 6 channels.
If you open Equalizer APO, top right you will see it says 'Stereo', it's reading the current format.

Thankfully it's not a problem, but a game could end up as stereo because it's reading the bitstream PCM data.
The same can be said for the Realtek app open on SPDIF, it will say 16b 48k, but do 6 x 24b 48k.

----

@Kabal81, some games will have settings files you can alter to force the game-app to output true 5.1 or 7.1 regardless.

View attachment 315756

PSA: How to get surround sound (5.1/7.1) on PC : r/fo76 (reddit.com)

====

As a side note, if you are using EAPO, and then use one of the .reg files in 'DTS Settings', it will delete the EAPO SFX key.

Simply setup EAPO on that endpoint again (no other steps needed).

----

Also note SPDIF has DTS APO4 (DTS:X) multichannel EFX programmed (6-8-12-Any ch), opposed to the stereo EFX.
SFX is the only replaceable slot (EAPO), replacing MFX will reduce quality, EFX the same plus no DTSi.

====

Here is the SPDIF speaker config that is set by the driver, this is the code highlighted red in my image (post above).

View attachment 315770View attachment 315771

Note that Blu-ray standard is slightly different with its layout. BL not RL.

I've searched a lot how to force Cyberpunk to play on 5.1 but wasn't lucky to find anything. I found the settings file but wasn't able to identify a setting which will do so.

I also treid your hint with setting EAPO endpoint again. Still not working. I'm starting to believe it's like you said with the PCM that the game identifies my setting as 2.0 instead of 5.1
So annoying.

 

[Ferather]

If it does not upmix when sending stereo, then its sending stereo over 6 channels (4 empty), you can adjust the [If InputChannelCount == 2] -to- [If InputChannelCount == 6].
This tells EAPO to upmix left-right (stereo) to the other empty channels, as it will detect 6 channels, opposed to 2. Switch it back after.

 

[bottlefedc83]

@Ferather humor me if you would.

I am playing around with settings and stuff just to see what happens when I change stuff. I am back to upmixing, what does your system show when you play a file that is 2 channel audio in MPCx64? Default driver settings from yours and every other driver shows this. (using DTSi as the format ofc)

Spoiler: Factory 2.0 audio

When I play a 7.1 file.

Spoiler: 7.1 audio factory

So long story short when I put the Microsoft SFX in the SFX chain it shows this.

Spoiler: 2.0 audio MS SFX

Spoiler: 7.1 audio MS SFX

The 2nd set of examples sounds much better as well, without upmixer tweaks even, its also the way I believe it should work always. Except it isn't on any Realtek drivers I have seen. Works totally fine on HDMI that I have seen, I will test and show results later using DTSi on my NVIDIA HDMI, but I already know how it will act. I will behave as the 2nd set of images. I want to make sure its not my system or something else. I have tried it on other machines in my house and can replicate it. If you could test and share your results I would appreciate it.

My MPC64 settings so you can replicate:

Spoiler: MPC settings

 

[leveltrauma]

@Ferather humor me if you would.

I am playing around with settings and stuff just to see what happens when I change stuff. I am back to upmixing, what does your system show when you play a file that is 2 channel audio in MPCx64? Default driver settings from yours and every other driver shows this. (using DTSi as the format ofc)

Spoiler: Factory 2.0 audio

View attachment 316016

When I play a 7.1 file.

Spoiler: 7.1 audio factory

View attachment 316017

So long story short when I put the Microsoft SFX in the SFX chain it shows this.

Spoiler: 2.0 audio MS SFX

View attachment 316018

Spoiler: 7.1 audio MS SFX

View attachment 316019

The 2nd set of examples sounds much better as well, without upmixer tweaks even, its also the way I believe it should work always. Except it isn't on any Realtek drivers I have seen. Works totally fine on HDMI that I have seen, I will test and show results later using DTSi on my NVIDIA HDMI, but I already know how it will act. I will behave as the 2nd set of images. I want to make sure its not my system or something else. I have tried it on other machines in my house and can replicate it. If you could test and share your results I would appreciate it.

My MPC64 settings so you can replicate:

Spoiler: MPC settings

View attachment 316026View attachment 316027View attachment 316028

n1 to see that somebody else is using MPC-BE - it works great with this pack when setup upmixing to 5.1 or 7.1 - but I also made very good experience with the E-APO too

 

[bottlefedc83]

n1 to see that somebody else is using MPC-BE - it works great with this pack when setup upmixing to 5.1 or 7.1 - but I also made very good experience with the E-APO too

Love it for testing and tweaking stuff as you said. I am not using the upmixer in MPC-BE I am trying to nail down the reason windows only unmixes in this pleasing endpoint/format conversion way when MS SFX is in the chain.

 

[Ferather]

Interesting. So when you add the MS FX and it says output 5.1 do you get 5.1 (upmixed)? Here is Potplayer.

 

[bottlefedc83]

Interesting. So when you add the MS FX and it says output 5.1 do you get 5.1 (upmixed)? Here is Potplayer.

Yes, it uses their speaker fill upmixing which isn't terrible. I like to use the MS FX as a child SFX on EAPO and override the upmixer with one of my choosing. Its super satisfying to see 2.0 converted and upmixed. It just annoys me WHY, I like to have answers.

This is universal too, on my Realtek SS3 drivers I add MS FX on CSFX on analogue so when I set the endpoint to 7.1 all sound in games and all get 2.0 to 7.1 output + upmixing.

 

[Ferather]

Noted. Still an upmixer but that's news. Does it work on games where EAPO does not?
Why does MS SFX upmix? If speaker fill is not enabled, I do not know.

I use Audacity to see what Optical is doing in channels, and if its upmixed stereo.

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